patrick.net

Yeah, I remember during the peak of the bubble, when Alberto Ramirez, a strawberry picker making 14k a year, qualified for and bought a house in Hollister for 720k.

I mean a house in Hollister, CA for 720k ??!! The guy was only making 14k a year and some dumb bank gave him a 720k mortgage. Of course us tax payers probably bailed out that dumb bank and the executives are probably still flying around in corporate jets with huge bonuses, while asking the normal folks to work harder and stop being so entitled.

If anyone believes real estate prices are still going lower, or not possible for it to rebound then don't buy. No one has a gun to your head making you sign on the dotted line. But if people like me do feel real estate is the best investment at this point in time, then it should not bother you if we decide to buy. It is not your money that is at risk.
My predictions:
California real estate will go well above peak levels by 2020.
Dow Jones Industrial Average - at 20,000 by 2020.

Rent while watching your neighbors get pinched on their mortgage and have do take on 2nd and 3rd jobs to make ends meet. Watch the crazy ants running around trying to justify their high priced lives on low salaries. Sure, in 30 years they will have it all paid down. However, 30 years of 80 hrs/wk will normally mean multiple wives/husbands, kids, a worn our mind and body, and a 30-40 year old beaten down shack. Rent and live the real dream. Flexibility, no care about maintenance, no care about being job location trapped, no cares at all. Owning is for the weak!

lostand confused says

Yeah, I remember during the peak of the bubble, when Alberto Ramirez, a strawberry picker making 14k a year, qualified for and bought a house in Hollister for 720k.

I mean a house in Hollister, CA for 720k ??!! The guy was only making 14k a year and some dumb bank gave him a 720k mortgage. Of course us tax payers probably bailed out that dumb bank and the executives are probably still flying around in corporate jets with huge bonuses, while asking the normal folks to work harder and stop being so entitled.

Granted that was pretty stupid. It is not happening now.

Raw says

If anyone believes real estate prices are still going lower, or not possible for it to rebound then don't buy. No one has a gun to your head making you sign on the dotted line. But if people like me do feel real estate is the best investment at this point in time, then it should not bother you if we decide to buy. It is not your money that is at risk.

My predictions:

California real estate will go well above peak levels by 2020.

Dow Jones Industrial Average - at 20,000 by 2020.

It is our money. I don't know you, but can say with certainty that you don't deserve a 30 year 4% mortgage. The only reason that is available is the free money attitude in this country. If you buy with cash, then I agree it is not our money. But I bet you are using our money to buy. If and when the market goes further south we will all pay for your real estate gambling habit. Another underwater mortgage holder that needs help from Joe the Plumber.

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Rent and live the real dream. Flexibility, no care about maintenance, no care about being job location trapped, no cares at all. Owning is for the weak!

We need people who think like this. It creates a healthy rental market.
PS by the time I retire, I will be charging you a lot more rent. Make sure you pay on time, and thank you in advance.

RentingForHalfTheCost says

It is our money. I don't know you, but can say with certainty that you don't deserve a 30 year 4% mortgage. The only reason that is available is the free money attitude in this country. If you buy with cash, then I agree it is not our money. But I bet you are using our money to buy. If and when the market goes further south we will all pay for your real estate gambling habit. Another underwater mortgage holder that needs help from Joe the Plumber.

So far I have not used YOUR money. But I plan on it. But don't worry I never default.

Raw says

Granted that was pretty stupid

Well, FHA loans allow you to buy upto 780K-I foget the exact limit- with just 3.5% down. If you can't even afford 10-15% down, forget 20, you shouldn't be buying a 500, 600, 700k house in this economy-where your job can be shipped off to any country at any time.

I think at least 80-90% of mortgages are either initiated or guaranteed by the gubmnt in some way? That is not a healthy market.

Raw says

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Rent and live the real dream. Flexibility, no care about maintenance, no care about being job location trapped, no cares at all. Owning is for the weak!

We need people who think like this. It creates a healthy rental market.

PS by the time I retire, I will be charging you a lot more rent. Make sure you pay on time, and thank you in advance.

No problemo. Little do you realize that with the money I saved by renting your overpriced house I bought the retirement home you now find yourself. I'll be reviewing your savings and insurance and making sure you live just long enough for me to drain you down to the last few hundred dollars. I'll then bulldoze down your decrepit home that you love so much and turn it into part of downhill mountain bike course. Complete with a waterfalls, log run, and rock stairs.
RIP my friend.

Renting,
You will feel un-fulfilled if you are Waiting for Schadenfreude. People in The Fortress are wealthy and they can afford it. They don't care if you think it's too expensive. Get over it.
Besides, I really don't know how you can stand to live around Fortress People, especially if you are surrounded by them all day at work. Life can be good outside of The Fortress where prices are more reasonable and people are more reasonable.

Raw says

RentingForHalfTheCost says

It is our money. I don't know you, but can say with certainty that you don't deserve a 30 year 4% mortgage. The only reason that is available is the free money attitude in this country. If you buy with cash, then I agree it is not our money. But I bet you are using our money to buy. If and when the market goes further south we will all pay for your real estate gambling habit. Another underwater mortgage holder that needs help from Joe the Plumber.

So far I have not used YOUR money. But I plan on it. But don't worry I never default.

You never default. Neither did I...that is until I did. We'll see how quickly you change your attitude if the market turns hard on you as it did for me and so many other former owners.

Never say never!

Seriously you sound like a lot of the talk I was heard during the last bubble inflation. Go for it, buy more rental properties. Give us renters another option. As for charging ever higher rent keep in mind you can only charge what your tennants can pay, not what they can borrow. Go higher and you will either have another empty rental on the market or worse a deadbeat tennant whom you will have to evict. Then you'll have to lower your rent for the next potential deadbeat. Rinse, repeat.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Renting,

You will feel un-fulfilled if you are Waiting for Schadenfreude. People in The Fortress are wealthy and they can afford it. They don't care if you think it's too expensive. Get over it.

Besides, I really don't know how you can stand to live around Fortress People, especially if you are surrounded by them all day at work. Life can be good outside of The Fortress where prices are more reasonable and people are more reasonable.

Not all are as you describe. I mingle with many that live in the hills and are either thinking about or already started to stop paying on their mortgage. Shit will hit the fan soon enough, mark my words. Denial will be the death of many, young and old.

New renter says

You never default. Neither did I...that is until I did. We'll see how quickly you change your attitude if the market turns hard on you as it did for me and so many other former owners.

Never say never!

Seriously you sound like a lot of the talk I was heard during the last bubble inflation. Go for it, buy more rental properties. Give us renters another option. As for charging ever higher rent keep in mind you can only charge what your tennants can pay, not what they can borrow. Go higher and you will either have another empty rental on the market or worse a deadbeat tennant whom you will have to evict. Then you'll have to lower your rent for the next potential deadbeat. Rinse, repeat.

I'll be honest. I don't like banks, I think they are crooks. If I was way upside down on a home with no hope in sight, I would walk (after squatting)
Rents increase over time with inflation just like everything else. There is no reason to believe this will change. I would agree you cannot charge more rent than the market will bear or else you will have excessive vacancies.

RentingForHalfTheCost says

PS by the time I retire, I will be charging you a lot more rent. Make sure you pay on time, and thank you in advance.

No problemo. Little do you realize that with the money I saved by renting your overpriced house I bought the retirement home you now find yourself. I'll be reviewing your savings and insurance and making sure you live just long enough for me to drain you down to the last few hundred dollars. I'll then bulldoze down your decrepit home that you love so much and turn it into part of downhill mountain bike course. Complete with a waterfalls, log run, and rock stairs.
RIP my friend.

LOL. RentingForTWICETheCost you are funny.
Because I like that cartoon logo you use I will give you a 10% discount on your rent.
So you plan on saving by renting, then buy the home I plan for reirement income, and then bulldoze it? After you buy it from me I won't care what you do with it. It's your house...hello?

Brentok3:
"John Templeton (Templeton Investments) once said, shortly before he passed away, when prices in former bubble areas decline to 10% of the bubble high, then you buy."

Thanks, I've been looking for this source for months.
My offers have been 50% off present prices.May have to wait a while before I buy.

HEY YOU says

My offers have been 50% off present prices.May have to wait a while before I buy.

Yeah, for ever.

based on years of accumulated scientific evidence, the film asks for a new investigation to address the omissions, distortions and lies of the official story, that's all.

coriacci1 says

based on years of accumulated scientific evidence, the film asks for a new investigation to address the omissions, distortions and lies of the official story, that's all.

Obviously you didn't do enough research into which thread to post on.

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Not all are as you describe. I mingle with many that live in the hills and are either thinking about or already started to stop paying on their mortgage.

Renter, that is interesting. Almost everyone in my office lives in The Fortress, with polite contempt for my partner and I raising our kids outside The Fortress, with what they call "bad schools", and the same polite contempt for the small number of hourly employees doing the same thing.

I don't know anyone like that who have shared that they are thinking of doing what you are saying, though maybe there's too much lost face to share it with someone like me.

If you shared a "case" or two we could all learn from it.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Renter, that is interesting. Almost everyone in my office lives in The Fortress, with polite contempt for my partner and I raising our kids outside The Fortress, with what they call "bad schools", and the same polite contempt for the small number of hourly employees doing the same thing.

I don't know anyone like that who have shared that they are thinking of doing what you are saying, though maybe there's too much lost face to share it with someone like me.

If you shared a "case" or two we could all learn from it.

BACAH, do you get the same sick satisfaction from knowing how irritated THOSE people are that we are actually happy with our lives outside*** of the fortress? They know that they missed the memo that life involves more than money and that you can't buy class, they know it, and they feel too invested into their current lifestyle to cut losses and go be happy. Bwahahahahhaaa! You can keep the fortress and imaginary pressure to keep up appearances, fuckers!

(hey I don't claim to be classy, but I also know darn well that you can't buy it)

***I do live in Mountain View, but since I rent it doesn't "count" as living here.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Almost everyone in my office lives in The Fortress, with polite contempt for my partner and I raising our kids outside The Fortress, with what they call "bad schools", and the same polite contempt for the small number of hourly employees doing the same thing.

Truly sad, they have no idea as you pointed out regarding Jerry Yang, many from outside the Palo Alto borders who do very well, if not better.

I would certainly ask in indirect fashion these current homeowners in the Fortress .. where are the 100,000 of former students from the Fortress school system doing today?... are they all some big shot tech workers, doctors, or Nobel Peace prize winners. No they are not!

bmwman91 says

They know that they missed the memo that life involves more than money and that you can't buy class

Charlie dont surf !

I dunno bimmerman.

They run circles around me with the Lexuses, BMW's, SUV's, trips "back home" to Asia or wherever (during expensive holiday travel period, too), Harker tuition, private lessons, private coaching, private SAT prep tutoring, etc.

Whatever.

B.A.C.A.H. says

I dunno bimmerman.

They run circles around me with the Lexuses, BMW's, SUV's, trips "back home" to Asia or wherever (during expensive holiday travel period, too), Harker tuition, private lessons, private coaching, private SAT prep tutoring, etc.

Whatever.

Well who knows then. If it is 0-gen immigrants from southern China, then yeah of course they look down on you. Back in the home country, dignity is directly proportional to net worth. They probably see you as a poor piece of shit with no dignity since they don't understand that the real beauty of America is that you can live your life as you see fit, and that individuality is more important than the collective. America is just a notch on a social totem pole to them, and a place to stash ill-gotten money for when they need to exit the homeland when shit hits the fan there.

B.A.C.A.H. says

I dunno bimmerman.

They run circles around me with the Lexuses, BMW's, SUV's, trips "back home" to Asia or wherever (during expensive holiday travel period, too), Harker tuition, private lessons, private coaching, private SAT prep tutoring, etc.

Whatever.

It is a different mindset. Both husband and wife work and more often than not, just one kid. So both pull in close to 150-300k a year or more. If one gets laid off, there is always another to pull up the slack for a few months. Many don't travel or have hobbies or spend money on things other than a nice house, nice car and forever running the rat race like a hamster.

Those trips to Asia, most of the time is working from home or working remotely a few months. Then of course they Tiger Mom or dad their kids to achieve and follow in their footsteps. Just part of the culture in many Asian countries, where it used to be very difficult to get by or even get a job and any little advantage to get you ahead of the hordes could mean the difference between your whole family living in a room and five families sharing a toilet or having your own house and good job. That and hunger is always a good motivator to work hard, save and get ahead in life and not worry about the meaning of life or ponder about other such things.

Of course, for many first generation immigrant Asians, the divorce rate is still very, very low, so no need to worry about your spouse running off with half and keeping your kids away, forcing you to fork over obscene amounts in child support and alimony. Look at Tom Cruise-crazy he may be-but he has to fork over 33 k a month and on top of that pay all expenses-medical, school, health, extra curricular etc.. if he is paying all expenses, what is the 33k a month for????

Of course Asia of today is very different, with labor shortages and anyone with a pulse getting a job or even coming over here on visas-so actually it is somewhat becoming westernised over there- here though I don't know what is happening. Nowadays there, many want to get into fields they like instead of the one that brings the most money.

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Owning is for the weak!

Yep. 65% of the Americans are the weak. 35% of the renters are the strong. The 35% include Section 8 and well-off people living on the "project". I bet I'm still missing other creative government supported programs for the 35%, I mean the strong. :>)

Raw says

But don't worry I never default.

The probability might be low, but never say "never." :)

lostand confused says

So both pull in close to 150-300k a year or more. If one gets laid off,

Too expensive to maintain in CA if they both work in tech.. both will be downsized.
since there are alternatives which cost half as much...

B.A.C.A.H. says

Harker tuition, private lessons, private coaching, private SAT prep tutoring, etc.

... lol Save some $$$ for rehab when little Kwan hits the bottle due to the stress !

thomaswong.1986 says

lostand confused says

So both pull in close to 150-300k a year or more. If one gets laid off,

Too expensive to maintain in CA if they both work in tech.. both will be downsized.
since there are alternatives which cost half as much...

Depends on the size of the network you have. Most jobs you get by networking and knowing someone, not applying off of dice.

lostand confused says

Depends on the size of the network you have. Most jobs you get by networking and knowing someone, not applying off of dice.

Networking does little when the budgeting RED pen draws down a 10-20% cost reduction.

I hope some have networks that cross multiple states.. Texas, Florida, Arizona, and Washington.

thomaswong.1986 says

Networking does little when the budgeting RED pen draws down a 10-20% cost reduction.
I hope some have networks that cross multiple states.. Texas, Florida, Arizona, and Washington.

You honestly think they lay off people who make the most money or the deadwood or the people who contribute little to the company? In today's outsourced world, talented people are the first to go and loud mouth boorish people who bumble through everything seem to stay.

RentingForHalfTheCost says

It is our money. I don't know you, but can say with certainty that you don't deserve a 30 year 4% mortgage. The only reason that is available is the free money attitude in this country. If you buy with cash, then I agree it is not our money. But I bet you are using our money to buy. If and when the market goes further south we will all pay for your real estate gambling habit. Another underwater mortgage holder that needs help from Joe the Plumber.

I agree.

This is why I hate Roberto and his ilk.

E-man says

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Owning is for the weak!

Yep. 65% of the Americans are the weak. 35% of the renters are the strong. The 35% include Section 8 and well-off people living on the "project". I bet I'm still missing other creative government supported programs for the 35%, I mean the strong. :>)

Learn from your victory. Prosper from your failure.

Oh yeah.

Owners are smart. They don't use any government supported programs like 3% FHA loans.

Or disaster relief funds should your POS burn or get flooded.

Or mortgage interest deduction.

Brentok3 says

To get crazy prices in real estate, you generally need crazy lending. When the crazy lending goes away, so do the crazy prices

Not a factor in BA for instance.
If house is attractive in good neighborhood, no Seller, nor Listing Agent, care anymore if you pre-approved; have 3.5% down or 50% down; your loan is FHA or conventional; have 1% or10% interest. The house is sold to the person who came with ALL CASH with no contingency and his offer is above asking price.

Facebooksux says

I agree.

This is why I hate Roberto and his ilk.

According to what you said before, you make a salary north of $1.5m a year and yet you post comments like that. $1.5m a year puts you in the top 0.1% and yet you bitch about Roberto's 80k house deals in Phoenix. What part of that doesn't ring true?

Darrell In Phoenix says

Of all people questioning someones integrity, Bibsy has the audicity to to be the one to do it.

Stunning.

You've already used that line before for Roberto. And the word is audacity.
Your posts are a continual assault on integrity as you are simply trolling.
And once again, you've never actually mentioned what I've apparently been lying about, or even my views on housing for that matter. Why not have a go? I'd be fascinated to learn what it is you think I've been lying about. I'm sure I'll be in for a long wait.

Darrell In Phoenix says

You have no integrity my friend. Now carry on with your fawning.

Ahh, would that be fawning as in pointing out what you are doing?
Again, what have I been lying about and what do you think my views on housing are?

Bigsby says

Facebooksux says

I agree.

This is why I hate Roberto and his ilk.

According to what you said before, you make a salary north of $1.5m a year and yet you post comments like that. $1.5m a year puts you in the top 0.1% and yet you bitch about Roberto's 80k house deals in Phoenix. What part of that doesn't ring true?

My salary is not nearly that high, but I do fall within the 1%.

Don't get me wrong. I'm well off but I'm still salaried and in a field that is open to drastic change (health care).

My concerns boil down to living within one's means. Doesn't matter how much you make if you're still living paycheck to fucking paycheck, understand?

The same easy money that allows Roberto Buffet to make his transactions and amass hundreds of prized golden retrievers allows people to artificially bid up prices in the Bay Area.

I agree that a Los Altos Hills estate will always be worth a couple million, but a piece of shit Mountain View ranch home or Eichler--or whatever the fuck they call it where you can't even bang your girlfriend in the living room with all the windows cause there are kids riding bikes all over the sidewalk--shouldn't be worth nearly $1,000,000.

Facebooksux says

My concerns boil down to living within one's means. Doesn't matter how much you make if you're still living paycheck to fucking paycheck, understand?

The same easy money that allows Roberto Buffet to make his transactions and amass hundreds of prized golden retrievers allows people to artificially bid up prices in the Bay Area.

Roberto has bought a bunch of 80k houses. Big deal. From the rents he's getting, it sounds like he made some good buys. Lucky him, but his worth is a fraction of yours, so what is it that you are so annoyed about?

And please, of course it matters how much you earn. If you earn $1m a year and are living pay cheque to pay cheque, then you can change your bloody lifestyle and still have a very nice life, and save rather a lot into the bargain. Try that when you are earning minimum wage.

And of course prices are high in the BA, but what has that got to do with Roberto?