patrick.net

bob2356 says

You're just catching on to this after 578 comments? For shame, you seemed so much brighter than that.

Oh, I was fully aware of it, but having pointless 'discussions' on the internet fills some down time while in my office.

Bigsby says

bob2356 says

You're just catching on to this after 578 comments? For shame, you seemed so much brighter than that.

Oh, I was fully aware of it, but having pointless 'discussions' on the internet fills some down time while in my office.

That's fair. I do it while waiting for everyone else in the family to wake up.

bgamall4 says

No, he said they were going to pull the BUILDING. You are deceived aren't you? Are you NIST Grigsby?

Why would he admit that on film? I've asked at least 4 times, and you can't answer this simple question.

bgamall4 says

No, he said they were going to pull the BUILDING. You are deceived aren't you? Are you NIST Grigsby?

Strange then that he never actually said that. And here is the full quote:

"I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, you know, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

The background to that quote is a discussion about the state of the fire and avoiding further loss of life. In no way, shape or form, except in a conspirator's warped perception, does that translate as an order to blow up the building. Perhaps you could explain why you think he would give that order to the fire department commander rather than one of the people who supposedly planted the explosives. Or are you now saying that it was the fire department commander who was in charge of the demolition? Utterly ridiculous. Rather like your arguments.
And you STILL haven't answered the questions you were asked.

He sounds like a good wife.
Will he be replacing the dog in your avatar??

robertoaribas says

and he looks great. But he can't think. I work out with him

bgamall4 says

Homeboy says

Why would he admit that on film?

What difference does it make why he said it. It fits perfectly with what actually happened to the building. The NIST waited months to put out the report, and ignored the squibs. They are liars.

"What difference does it make?" That's your answer? Seriously?

It makes ALL the difference. If Silverstein were part of a secret conspiracy to detonate 3 buildings and make it look like a terrorist attack, he would not admit this on camera and then later say it wasn't true. That doesn't make any sense.

I'm almost at a loss for words here. Do you not realize that "secret" and "admitted on camera" are mutually exclusive things? You seem to be perfectly happy to dismiss this obvious fact when doing so "fits" with your conspiracy theory.

If they were going to admit they blew up the buildings, then there would be no reason to pretend that terrorists did it, therefore no reason to fly planes into the buildings. Your scenario doesn't make any sense; therefore it could not have happened. This is called logic.

Please, try to use your brain just a tiny bit. You believe in nonsensical things, and the fact that they are nonsensical doesn't seem to faze you in the least. This is troublesome.

bgamall4 says

Homeboy says

WTC7 had unusually long floor spans - up to 54 ft. long. Different design - you are comparing apples and oranges.

So you are saying that three of the worst structured engineered buildings in the history of mankind were built all in the same place. The odds of that are near zero.

I said no such thing, and your proclamation of the "odds" of events are wholly without foundation. Do you understand that calculating odds is a mathematical process, not just something that you make up?

They were not the "worst" engineered buildings. Instead of having tightly spaced steel girders in a grid, necessitating small rooms, they were designed to be able to have larger rooms. The engineers obviously didn't anticipate the exact series of events that would happen on 9/11. I did see an interview with the WTC designer, and he seemed quite genuinely distraught that his building had failed in the way that it did.

But clearly the WTC was a different type of design from earlier high-rises, and to pretend this is not true is to be in denial.

Here is a picture of the Empire State Building being constructed. Do you see the tightly spaced steel columns throughout the building?

Now here is the WTC being constructed. Do you see the central core, and then the relatively large expanse without any vertical support that extends to the perimeter facade?

♫ One of these things is not like the other.... ♫

I don't know why I'm bothering. You obviously aren't about to listen to reason.

a chi giove?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/systemic-destabilization-as-a-strategy-of-tension-911-the-jfk-assassination-and-the-oklahoma-city-bombing/

bgamall4 says

That is bogus science. I am talking about WTC7 which was a normal steel constructed building. If it had explosives, and it did, the others had explosives too, regardless of your arguments. Squibs were observed in them. If WTC7 was pulled, and it was, you can argue until the cows come home and know that if the NIST lied about that building the whole thing is a lie.

You like videos. Where's the video that shows the necessary controlled explosions to bring down a very large building and the accompanying loud noises that said explosions make? And no, a video of a couple of puffs of smoke does not show a controlled explosion.

And guess what? I think you might know what's coming.. you STILL haven't answered those earlier, very relevant, questions.

bgamall4 says

Homeboy says

he would not admit this on camera and then later say it wasn't true.

He would say it wasn't true if he was trying to cover up the truth. You think backwards.

You are dense as molasses.

Yes, he would say it wasn't true if he were trying to cover up the truth, but...

HE WOULDN'T ADMIT ON CAMERA THAT HE WAS PART OF A SECRET CONSPIRACY, DUMBASS!!!!!

That is bogus science.

Well you're certainly the expert on that, LOL. It's a picture. Are you saying you do not see the difference in construction between the Empire State Building and the World Trade Center? And I thought you liked looking at pictures.

I am talking about WTC7 which was a normal steel constructed building. If it had explosives, and it did, the others had explosives too, regardless of your arguments. Squibs were observed in them. If WTC7 was pulled, and it was, you can argue until the cows come home and know that if the NIST lied about that building the whole thing is a lie.

WTC7 also had unusually long floor spans, which is part of why it failed. I told you that already. Try to keep up, o.k.?

There were no squibs. The squibs are only in your mind.

Are those videos supposed to be a joke bgamal? How does that show a controlled demolition? They're proof of the exact opposite. That first video shows a couple of very small explosions on different levels (one of which appears to happen twice at about the same spot). How on God's green Earth is that supposed to be like a controlled demolition? Are you saying that things don't explode when a building is on fire? Really? You must be on a wind up posting this stuff.

look out below!!!

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/will-israel-launch-a-false-flag-against-iran-to-start-war.html

coriacci1 says

look out below!!!

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/will-israel-launch-a-false-flag-against-iran-to-start-war.html

That was amazing. Washington's blog is the most confused thinking I've ever seen from someone who wasn't committed to a mental institution. Talk about going around in circles. I can see why a conspiracy believer is so enchanted. I believe it to be true, I believe it to be true, I believe it to be true. I think I will click my heels three times and return to kansas now.

bgamall4 says

This shows the sounds of the explosions:

Oh my god. That video is the funniest thing I've ever seen. You seriously have to be delusional if you think that sounds like a controlled demolition. This moron on the voiceover is pointing out a low rumble, as though that is the sound of explosive charges being detonated. The low rumble is the fucking building falling down. Oh, and he claims the microphone was "set to pick up human voices". Yes, everyone knows mics have a special button on them that blocks out the sound of deafeningly loud explosions. ROFL. I knew these truthers were reaching, but this one takes the cake. Thanks for providing such great entertainment for us.

And of course the video is full of the usual truther lies. At the beginning, he says the lack of sufficiently loud sounds is the "sole rationale" for NIST rejecting the controlled demo hypothesis. That's just a blatant falsehood. The NIST Q&A gives many reasons why a controlled demo could not have taken place. Did this guy even read it? It seems unlikely.

Keep up the good work, truthers! You just make yourselves look more and more ridiculous.

bgamall4 says

Homeboy says

HE WOULDN'T ADMIT ON CAMERA THAT HE WAS PART OF A SECRET CONSPIRACY, DUMBASS!!!!!

He would if he is as dense as you are, Dumbass

Ah, right. The perpetrators of 9/11 were at the same time both the smartest people in the world, to pull off this unbelievably complex scheme, and the dumbest people in the world, to give away their plan to the world. That's quite a trick, to be unbelievably brilliant and stupid as hell at the same time.

Oooh, you sure got me with that zinger. I'm crying.

Great job from squatting in east coco. You finally discovered the 911truth website everyone has been talking about. Even better you have learned how copy and paste works. Kudo's for keeping up with the discussion and technology.

So 1700 alleged architects and engineers have signed a petition saying the wtc was destroyed by controlled demolition. That's at least .1% (probably more like .01%). The other 99.9% either don't believe it or don't care. Curiosity overwhelms me, by what system of logic do the truthers arrive at the conclusion that the .1% must be correct and everyone else is wrong? I could probably find .1% of any large group of people willing to sign a petition that says the moon is made of blue cheese.

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

That's just not true. It's the same time traveling aliens that planted the stories of Obama's birth that run our incompetent government. I saw a video that proves it.

I didn't know about the time traveling aliens.

Can you post a link to the proof?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/R9f9zHCXeQw

Squatting in East CoCo says

Are you against investigating the truth?

What's the point of investigating the truth?

Squatting in East CoCo says

Can you see the contradiction in NIST's 2 statements?

Nope.

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

That's just not true. It's the same time traveling aliens that planted the stories of Obama's birth that run our incompetent government. I saw a video that proves it.

I didn't know about the time traveling aliens.

Can you post a link to the proof?

I am still not convinced that there are time traveling aliens, but I am willing to be persuaded if you could provide better evidence.

But I posted a video about aliens, that should be all the evidence anyone would need. You mean the content of the video has to be relevant? When did that rule start on this post?

Don't worry Squatting, I understand just fine. And your students have my sympathy. Oh, and by the way, you need to reread your initial contradiction post. There is no contradiction.

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

But I posted a video about aliens, that should be all the evidence anyone would need. You mean the content of the video has to be relevant? When did that rule start on this post?

I am not saying you are a kook but kooks can post whatever they want.

I believe this is a serious debate and I appreciate serious discussion.

I also enjoy some light hearted goofing.

I'd say he's making a very salient point.

bgamall4 says

You are blind Bigsby. Engineer after engineer and you still don't get it. Squatting has systematically dismantled all your arguments and you just are the one in need of sympathy. Are you a government plant, or a Republicon operative? Tell us something about yourself, Grisby.

Here we go again. Systematically dismantled all our arguments? You'll have to explain that one to me because I must have missed where he did that.
And you STILL haven't answered the questions you were asked.
Got any more ridiculous videos you'd care to share?

bgamall4 says

Bigsby says

I'd say he's making a very salient point.

Engineer after engineer puts your arguments to shame. Who are you Grizly?

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

Care to answer the questions now or do you just want to stick to relying on a few fellow kooks to make you feel better about your outlandish views?

Squatting in East CoCo says

Can you see the contradiction between:

"The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building."
and
"Intentional demolition usually requires applying explosive charges to most, if not all, interior columns, not just one or a limited set of columns in a building."

Can you see the contradiction in NIST's 2 statements

No, not at all, Simple logic dictates this isn't a contradiction. It doesn't say that you can't get the buildings to come down by blasting a few key columns (depending on the construction). You CAN. just that no one WOULD, because the entire point of a controlled demolition is the DEMOLITION part. People demolishing buildings are paid very well to make absolutely sure buildings come down completely and cleanly on the first try. Demolishing a substantial sized building is a big enterprise. Large area's need to be clear of people, Traffic has to be stopped. Security has to be hired. Utilities must be shut off. All very expensive. So no one that intends to continue their career in demolition is going to say hey let's knock out a few columns and see if it falls or not. Plus if it doesn't go on the first try then it would be very dangerous to go back in and set more explosives. So setting enough explosives to be absolutely sure the building goes down completely is the normal way of doing business. Nothing to see here, move along.

Bigsby says

I'd say he's making a very salient point.

I bet you've been waiting years to use salient in a sentence. Very good, the level of debate here has taken a jump up.

Squatting in East CoCo says

I have been teaching for more than 20 years and I have a lot of patience for helping students understand concepts.

You are a teacher? God help us.

bgamall4 says

The underpinning of the supports to allow falling into the footprint must come by demolition. There is no other way.

You have no scientific backing for this claim. The fact that you typed something on a message board does not render it true.

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

So setting enough explosives to be absolutely sure the building goes down completely is the normal way of doing business. Nothing to see here, move along.

WRONG! Now that you recognize the conspiracy you can't just move along.

I agree with you that they did set enough explosives to make sure the building came down.

Of course "they" did. The time traveling aliens are very clever. Sneaking tons of explosives in the buildings, ripping apart lots of walls to place explosives, running miles of wire to connect them, getting the explosives to stand up to hours of fire, leaving no trace of explosives except what would occur in the building anyway, getting the explosives to explode with almost no noise. All while thousands of people went in and out of the buildings every day. Very, very clever. Good thing marvin bush was there to turn off the camera's at critical times. I worked at a clients office in 3 wtc (aka Marriott World Trade Center) in 94 and I didn't see a single alien go in or out the whole time. Very clever.

Hey Coriacci, you were much prettier last week. Sex change went bad?

bgamall4 says

Raw says

Hey Coriacci, you were much prettier last week. Sex change went bad?

That wasn't nice, Raw. What does that have to do with the Towers imploding?

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

I recognize that picture. It is of a Pakistani in England who is the offspring of a first cousin marriage, which was forwarded to me in a video last month.
I just want to know why a pretty girl would want to replace her picture with that one?

bgamall4 says

If you keep calling me a kook I am going to complain to Patrick. You are a troll and you keep posting with no information and no proof of your own. I have posted proof after proof and you insist on ignoring it and accusing me of being a kook in the face of overwhelming evidence. Why don't you just shut up if you don't have anything factually to contribute.

You have got to be bloody joking. Shall we have a look back at this thread and see what you've been calling me and others?

And how the hell am I a troll? What information do you want me to post? I am not the one trying to prove a ridiculous conspiracy theory by posting laughable videos that show nothing but the opposite of what you think you're trying to demonstrate. You're posting evidence against what you are saying, but you are so caught up in your nonsense you can't even see that.

And if you want people who don't have anything factual to say to be quiet, then you should be the first to shut up.

So anyway Bgamall4, complain away to Patrick that I called you a kook. You are.

bgamall4 says

I have told you over and over that it was nanno thermite. And I have told you that Marvin Bush controlled the cameras. So, don't insult, just refute. Oh, you can't refute facts can you?

Apparently you must have completely ignored the responses people posted on that. How very convenient. And by the way, saying something is a fact doesn't actually make it so. It requires an overwhelming weight of evidence in its favour, and I'm afraid to burst your bubble, but that doesn't equate to some tin hat conspirator posting Youtube videos.

bgamall4 says

bob2356 says

Sneaking tons of explosives in the buildings,

I have told you over and over that it was nanno thermite. And I have told you that Marvin Bush controlled the cameras. So, don't insult, just refute. Oh, you can't refute facts can you?

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

You can't even spell nano thermite much less have a clue what it does or how it works. No one can refute someone who just keep posting the same bs over an over. Just because you keep saying marvin bush controlled the camera's doesn't make it fact. Just because nutcase.org has it on their website doesn't make it a fact. Marvin Bush was a director, not in operations. Marvin Bush left the company a year before 9/11. Those are facts. Easy to look up, public record facts. So now you refute these facts (not possible) or accept the crown of troll supreme. Not that anyone doesn't already know that.

I still like the theory of time traveling aliens better anyway. It's at least as plausable as what you are dishing out.

BTW I actually did do consulting work at 3 WTC for 6 months in 94 for a couple of really sketchy Isreali's running a medical billing service on the 19th floor. It was a nice contract, I was living on the bayshore, took the early ferry from highlands to pier 11 every day, caught the first ferry back and was at the beach at horseshoe cove Sandy Hook by 4;40 every day windsurfing. No wind, no problem just ride my bike up to gunnision and ogle nudist teen girls. So sweet. I think those guys are currently in jail for medicare fraud.

bob2356 says

You can't even spell nano thermite much less have a clue what it does or how it works.

LOL!

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

I still like the theory of time traveling aliens better anyway.

If you believe in aliens is it such a leap to imagine maintenance and security workers planting explosives?

Read more carefully, I said I believed aliens are at least as plausible if not more so as humping in tons of explosives and installing them unseen, not that I believed in them. It's a much more eloquent theory.

Could you provide the evidence that Marvin Bush was actually in a position to order the camera's turned off even though he left the company a year before 9/11 and was never a company employee, just a director. I notice bagmal hasn't stepped up to the plate on this one.

What happened to all the cool video's from 9/11 truth? Bagmal you are slowing down.

bgamall4 says

bob2356 says

Could you provide the evidence that Marvin Bush was actually in a position to order the camera's turned off even though he left the company a year before 9/11 and was never a company employee, just a director.

His contract terminated 911. His replacement died on the first day of work, 911. He was not liked by the Bush family. Look it up.

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

SInce you have the information in hand then why do you not provide it? The SEC and company records say he left the year before (I don't think this is on line any more, I read it like 6-7 years ago when the whole 9/11 truth thing started). What records do you have ( I know the answer is nothing)? We went over this in great detail earlier in the post. You seem to totally lack short term memory or you believe if you simply repeat things enough they are true. Either way it doesn't constitute evidence or even rational thinking.

Maybe we are going about this the wrong way. Let's start at the beginning. What does the word evidence mean to you? Use short words if you need to.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Bigsby says

Don't worry Squatting, I understand just fine. And your students have my sympathy. Oh, and by the way, you need to reread your initial contradiction post. There is no contradiction.

@Bigsby,

Let's forget about the contradictions of the NIST report for a moment and back up. Do you believe that government lies to us?

Yes, let's forget about your contradiction that wasn't. And everybody lies. And governments are run by people, so... It doesn't mean that your government blew up the WTC.

Squatting in East CoCo says

At what point were you convinced that building 7 was not intentionally demolished? Are you convinced beyond reasonable doubt that all of the experts that have doubts about the official story are wrong?

I respect experts who have doubts. The official story has lots of shadings in it to put the best light on some serious failings. But having doubts is a long way from simply making things up.

At what point? Maybe 2006. I read the 911truth.org website when it came out in 2004(?) or so followed by aetruth.org about a year later. I started with an open mind but the 9/11 truth stuff just doesn't add up or even makes sense unless you do the bgamal thing of just saying it's true because you want it be true. So much of what is on the truther websites just don't stand up to checking real records. Marvin Bush is the perfect example. Of course if you are bgamal then you just repeat whatever you find on a blog somewhere because everyone (or at least every truther) knows there was a gigantic conspiracy to alter all government/corporate records and only the truther blogs have the actual truth. How and where they came up with the actual truth is never explained.

I was curious about the validity of ae's credentialing claims when they first showed up so I submitted a couple totally bogus names and credentials and never heard a word asking for proof. The names I put in are still on the list. So I don't believe the majority of engineers for 9/11 truth are actually engineers. Other (much less lazy than me) people have actually checked the names against state licensing and have come up with a lot of blanks. So 1500 alleged engineers actually know the truth and the other what 20 or 30 million are just unwilling dupes of the government. Can you really believe that? I can't. I'm sure there are 1500 people of any large group such as lawyers, teachers, doctors, priests whatever that are actually psychotic and should not even be on the streets.