patrick.net

Kevin says

We have a crap ton of money and I'm overpaid.

you must work for the government...

I've looked at pre fab. It's amazing what modern tech can do, and frankly I'm shocked that it hasn't become standard for typical cookie cutter houses, especially in cold and wet parts of the country.

Really though, pre-fab isn't meaningfully cheaper than a custom build other than the lack of architect's fees. $200+/sf with crappy finishes isn't exactly what I'd call a great deal.

Hello Kevin,

I worked with an Architect builder 12 years ago and built an absolutely amazing ULTRA modern home. It was even on HG TV after it was built. I absolutely loved the experience and the results were breathtaking. Unfortunately, we moved out after 5 years because I accepted a job out of the USA. But it was awesome living there for the 5 years and I will take these memories with me till I die.

Obviously a lot to think about.

I would hold off buying a lot until you figure out first what type of home you wish to build and then have the architect/builder sign off on your lot choice before you purchase.

Make sure your contract spells EVERYTHING out.

At all costs, try to think of EVERYTHING you want in the home before signing on the dotted line. CHANGE ORDERS will send your budget into the crapper VERY quickly. I did have some change orders as everyone does but I could have done a better job thinking this through...e.g. I added about 20 windows, upgraded finishes, etc. This could have been done before I signed the initial contract.

Lastly, make sure the architect/builder finishes EVERYTHING that they are contractually obligated to do before you send them the final check or go to closing. Once money is in hand, they will be off and running to their next project.

Oh, and YES, it was worth it. No one on the planet had a house like mine. I built this home in a very conservative part of the country and everyone warned me that I would not be able to sell it. I ignored them because living in something I loved was more important to me than resale.

Surprisingly, when I did put the house on the market I had people lining up to purchase. I probably sold too cheap and too soon but the house sold in 3 days in a down/flat market. All this in a city over populated with traditional architecture.

Follow your dreams.

Buster says

I added about 20 windows

You ADDED 20 windows? How many windows did it have to start with, that's a lot of windows?

I think the original poster wanted to know how things worked out value wise. What was the total cost and what did it sell for. Not that it's going to be all that relevant in today's market.

Buster says

e.g. I added about 20 windows

The architect was OK with that? Doubtful at best, because it throws his design out of whack and affects the HVAC systems too.

If you have a crapton of money and are overpaid, then the custom house on some land might be a good way to use it. I wouldn't go into the deal expecting that you can recover your investment, though.

My parents went this route about 8 years ago. The whole bit -- bought the land (it had utilities and roads already), worked with an architect to design the whole thing top to bottom, found a builder, got a construction loan etc.

Here is the summary: It was a fun process up front (design with the architect, etc), was stressful / very stressful at points during the construction, was behind schedule and significantly over budget, and it probably took them a few years to really feel good about it. They really like the house and I don't think either regrets it, but there are some things they would do differently. They could never recover their investment, but they are semi-retired and plan to live there "forever", so that doesn't really matter.

The more detailed story / things to be aware of:

1. The architect fees made up a significant portion of the overall cost. Doing full custom design is very expensive -- if you can find an existing plan that can be modified to your preferences you will be way ahead of the game, especially if you work with a builder that is experienced with that basic plan. (the semi-custom approach)
2. There is a balance between getting a good competent architect and one who will give you what you want, not what they think is the most interesting thing. My parents mostly got what they wanted, but they did have to fight for some things because the architect was difficult at times.
3. Building in a rural / semi-rurual setting makes things more difficult in terms of getting people on the jobsite. You will pay a premium in $ or in delays, especially if local market conditions are providing steady work.
4. Site specific problems can be a major pain. In a large development they have this figured out (well, maybe)...but a one-off build on a plot of land might reveal unexpected problems. Bedrock that gets in the way of your basement plans (or has to be blasted), drainage, expansive soil etc. They had to incorporate many flood related design elements to pass code (they are on a major river). These aren't really that big of a deal, but they are outside of the norm, so they disrupt the normal building cadence. They add costs, inspection delays, jobsite confusion, etc.
5. Custom houses mean custom problems. You will probably include something in the design of the house that is harder to implement than anticipated -- something you mostly avoid in starting from a proven plan. As an example, they have a large open porch that is above "living area" in the basement. The floor of the porch (tile) has to act as a roof for the space below. With little to no pitch to the porch, they had to come up with a solution for waterproofing it, and ended up paying a significant cost to get a sub-floor membrane (firestone?) installed. This was not only an unanticipated cost, but it was also a source of stress, delay and (possibly) inspection issues.
6. Deviating from standard building practices will cost more than you think it should. They framed their house with 2x6 exterior walls for improved insulation. The additional material cost was not that significant, but it caused all sorts of small problems / additional costs (as I recall) due to it not being "usual and customary". Windows come to mind as being a possible problem point.

Being a custom home in a rural setting they had trouble getting a GC to commit to a fixed cost. There were too many unknowns, too much risk. They were OK taking on the risk of the unknowns, but effectively the GC was completely unleashed from cost concerns, and it really busted the budget. They got fleeced on some things that they shouldn't have, like floor finishing costs. They found themselves in a precarious position with the contractors because they *had* to close by a certain date to secure a very favorable rate on their loan, but they had to pass inspection first. Over a barrel.

In the end they were probably 6+ months over schedule, perhaps 50% over budget and have a few things that they would prefer different about the house.

Of the total their land (with improvements, part of a small community) was about 15-20% of the cost. The architect was probably 10% (?) of the total, and the rest was labor and materials (and permits).

They like the house and would probably do it again, but they would do some things differently. They are financially very sound (not rich, but comfortable, prudent and with multiple income streams), so they were able to absorb the unexpected cost.

At the time I told myself I would never build a custom house. If I'm loaded some day and can afford the cost premium, I might actually do it to get what I want...but I won't kid myself that it's a good financial investment...

Buster says

Oh, and YES, it was worth it. No one on the planet had a house like mine. I built this home in a very conservative part of the country and everyone warned me that I would not be able to sell it. I ignored them because living in something I loved was more important to me than resale.

Surprisingly, when I did put the house on the market I had people lining up to purchase. I probably sold too cheap and too soon but the house sold in 3 days in a down/flat market. All this in a city over populated with traditional architecture.

Follow your dreams.

Any more pics?

Darrell In Phoenix says

I can assure you..... he wasn't. And Buster is floating a line of shit here.

I was just trying to be nice. I should have just called bullshit though, because that's what it is.

swebb says

In the end they were probably 6+ months over schedule, perhaps 50% over budget

That's way below average for cost and time overruns on customs I've seen. They did well.

bob2356 says

In the end they were probably 6+ months over schedule, perhaps 50% over budget
That's way below average for cost and time overruns on customs I've seen. They did well.

6 month overages are below the average? Only if the builder wants to go out of business. Maybe during the peak bubble times where every mope with a pulse was somehow a "builder".

No I don't want to know about resale. I'm interested in how the financing (construction loans vs single close) and overall building process went.

Adding 20 windows in a large modern style home is quite a bit, but not unreasonable. I imagine it added a good $25-50k to the price tag though. Our builder suggested budgeting $1200-1500 per window since we want high grade aluminum instead of vinyl .

Yes, I'm borrowing money to build. I only have $350k available so I'm financing the rest. Money is cheap right now. Borrowing $800k is only going to cost me $3800 a month. I could never get a house like this for anything close to that without custom building.

bob2356 says

swebb says

In the end they were probably 6+ months over schedule, perhaps 50% over budget

That's way below average for cost and time overruns on customs I've seen. They did well.

You must only work with incompetent people. Our bank is only willing yo work with builders with a track record of hitting budgets and deadlines. 50% over budget would be an utter failure on the part of the builder, and would likely end in a lawsuit.

My father did residential construction for 40 years and never had anything close to a 50% budget overturn. 15% was considered a major fuck up. I just wish he was able to help me with my own plans.

Were going with a design/ build firm owned by two architects. They do both the architecture and construction management / GC. Architects fees are 10% of construction costs, or about $70k in our estimates.

Where did your parents build that 2x6 framing wasn't standard? I'm not sure you can meet the energy code here with anything less.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Kevin says

Our bank is only willing yo work with builders with a track record of hitting budgets and deadlines.

LMAO.

Speaking of BS.

I'm sorry, how many homes have you built? How did your financing work out? Have you ever owned property in your life or even held a job that paid well enough to consider it? If not, go away, there are adults speaking.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Kevin says

Our bank is only willing yo work with builders with a track record of hitting budgets and deadlines.
LMAO.
Speaking of BS.

Yes, the whole post is BS, and I'm not going to play along any further with it for somebody's amusement.

Good luck "Kevin". LOL

bob2356 says

swebb says

In the end they were probably 6+ months over schedule, perhaps 50% over budget

That's way below average for cost and time overruns on customs I've seen. They did well.

Friends in Palo Alto built a custom and I rather suspect they went through that. The house is fantastic though, but I can't even begin to imagine how much it all cost. You need deep pockets in that part of the world. Very deep.

Darrell In Phoenix says

insulation.

lololol. 6" walls is CODE.

Where you are perhaps, not necessarily in more temperate climates.

I DO have experience (re)building a custom home here in SJ.

I'll try to be as concise with my advice as I can:

Overall - spend money on the "bones" of your house, not the window dressing.

Think long term: For example having cared for my elderly, handicapped father and having children of my own I was particularly sensitive to making the house as handicap and child friendly as I could. Also think not just what you want but strong selling points to the person who you will someday sell the home to.

Shop around: Go to as many open houses as time allows. Get a feel for what the current trends are as well as what you like, what others like and what you think you can do without. Decide what is important to you - do you need a 5 gar garage? How about a workshop? Sunroom? Sauna?

Modeling: Buy a good software package and make as complete a 3D model as possible of what you think you want. If possible have a professional set you up including an accurate model of the lot with contour and scenery. Do lots of virtual walk throughs. A lot of things look fine on paper but turn out to be hard-to-correct mistakes in the end. You NEED to have a very good idea of what you want even before contacting an architect.

Codes: Get to know the local building codes. Builders make mistakes and ultimately you are on the hook for them. Our builder also told us several untruths which would have cost us dearly had I not been vigilant.

Lumber: Look into borate treated lumber.
http://www.archchemicals.com/Fed/WOLW/Products/Preservative/Sillbor/default.htm
http://www.greatsouthernwood.com/products/n-durz
I love this stuff! Lifetime protection against insects and dryrot. If you can't get the wood pretreated you can easily do it yourself with boracare.
http://nisuscorp.com/builders/products/bora-care
If you don't use it for the entire structure at least use it in strategic areas, e.g. outer walls and subfloors.

Our builder used some kind of resin fiberboard beam for the headers. It looked damn solid. I was assured it would never twist, sag, be eaten or rot away. I believe it. If I had the option I would have used such beams extensively throughout the entire house. If you are to use a post and beam foundation I'd recommend you explore using such beams there.

Subfloor: Our house had a 2x6 TnG subfloor. It was SOLID, no give at all! I've lived in tract homes that had a lot of give in the floor. Bendy floors feel cheap. Spend money on a good solid subfloor.

Windows: Design in lots of them. I used fiberglass framed Milgard. I preferred fiberglass as it does not rot, transmit heat, and unlike vinyl is paintable.

Ceilings: 9' or greater throughout. Coffered or vaulted in large rooms.

Hallways: Make them wide enough for a wheelchair.

Doorways: Again wide enough for a wheelchair. Use solid core doors. The cost difference is not that much over hollow core doors. Pocket doors are great for doorways that will normally stay open but you will want to sometimes close for noise or privacy (e.g. kitchen or laundry room).

Flooring: I like carpet and tile. I hate laminate. Neutral on hardwood. Vinyl and linoleum can work in small rooms. If you go with carpet use carpet with a nylon or triexta fiber. Both are tough and will last a good long time. I'd give preference to triexta. It’s amazing stuff.

Little details:

* Suntunnels: In bathrooms, master closet, laundry room and hallways.

* Skylight and/or dormers in kitchen and entryway for lots of natural lighting

* Bullnose ALL wall corners for safety

* Insulate all interior walls to kill sound – its not expensive and adds value.

* Centrally locate water heater and HVAC in attic or basement to save interior space

* Run A/V wiring in large rooms and patio

* Optional – hardwire in Cat6 or better in all rooms. This might not be as necessary as wireless improves

That’s all I can think of for now.

Kevin says

Where did your parents build that 2x6 framing wasn't standard? I'm not sure you can meet the energy code here with anything less.

Kentucky, early 2000s. All of the new construction houses I have seen in KY were 2x4.

New Renter says

* Insulate all interior walls to kill sound – its not expensive and adds value.

Sound insulation has more to do with construction and not any batting you put between the walls (fiberglass insulation does very little for sound). Mass is helpful (5/8" drywall) and isolated sill plates and top plates with staggered studs is really where it's at. A laundry or utility closet adjacent to living space might warrant this extra expense, but probably not for other interior walls (my opinion). Cast iron drain pipes are another "hidden luxury" I would consider for sound reasons.

swebb says

New Renter says

* Insulate all interior walls to kill sound – its not expensive and adds value.

Sound insulation has more to do with construction and not any batting you put between the walls (fiberglass insulation does very little for sound).

Fiberglass DOES help as this video attests. I agree though there may be better options available:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/_AzxowD6if0

I also agree a good home design will also work wonders. Carpet helps kill sound as well. Solid core doors and yes, sound deadening drywall may also help:
http://www.homasote.com/products/440-Soundbarrier.aspx?gclid=CNLH4s-s2bMCFYw-Mgods1QAaw

Insulating the interior walls may add $500-$1000 to the project. On the down side insulation may make later projects more difficult (e.g. running wires, pipes etc).

Ask yourself is it worth the luxury of being able to watch TV at a reasonable volume without keeping the entire house awake? How about using the toilet without everyone knowing your business? Being able to get busy in the bedroom with the kids sleeping one wall over?

Darrell In Phoenix says

The public is too stupid to do this.

99.999% of them yes, I'm giving the OP the benefit of the doubt :)

Darrell In Phoenix says

Unneccessary expense. Understand your needs, prioritize your wants, browse floor plans at a CAD house, buy the plans that most suit your needs and then red line them for construction.

Sorry, I was unclear. by modeling I mean modeled in software e.g. CAD house.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Not true. In the bid documents, the GC is responsible for meeting all code requirements. He' owns code compliance and he alone. If the local building dept doesn't sign off on a CO, guess what..... it's the GC's problem.

The key is if the inspector doesn't sign off - some cities are more flexible than others in interpreting code. I have personal experience with this. In any case I'm sure you will agree that the owner should keep a close eye on the construction to minimize such problems. If you catch problems early its not a big deal to fix. Catch them later and you will have a bigger fight.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Again.... IBC requirements exceed the personal opinion of the untrained person.

That they may - I did not spend time reviewing the code on this matter as the subfloor was not replaced in my project. All I know is that in the 1970s tract homes around here were build with crappy thin plywood subfloors and they flex when you walk on them. It sucks. What is the minimum the IBC allow for these days?

Darrell In Phoenix says

New Renter says

Windows: Design in lots of them. I used fiberglass framed Milgard. I preferred fiberglass as it does not rot, transmit heat, and unlike vinyl is paintable.

Watch your wallet on this stuff. This is a profit center.

I dunno, I didn't pay for it. The OP mentioned aluminum. That was not an option on my project. I don't think fiberglass was much more expensive than vinyl.

Darrell In Phoenix says

New Renter says

Ceilings: 9' or greater throughout. Coffered or vaulted in large rooms.

Soffit ceilings are nothing more than IFS detail. It's an upsell, unecessary and goes out of style. Stick with timeless IFS's.

All a matter of personal taste.

Darrell In Phoenix says

New Renter says

Doorways: Again wide enough for a wheelchair. Use solid core doors. The cost difference is not that much over hollow core doors.

Another profit center. Watch your wallet.

I think the cost difference was about $30/door. No extra labor charges.

I agree with Darrell that its easy to go overboard on extras. A fully itemized cost breakdown will help you decide if a particular feature is worth its cost to you.

Darrell In Phoenix says

New Renter says

Where you are perhaps, not necessarily in more temperate climates.

You cannot use 2x4"'s in perimeter and shear walls on a two story structure, period.

Did the OP say the home was to be multi-story? I must have missed it.

@New Renter, a lot of that stuff doesn't make sense for modern design. Straight lines and lots of glass here. Bullnose corners would be weird.

Kevin says

@New Renter, a lot of that stuff doesn't make sense for modern design. Straight lines and lots of glass here. Bullnose corners would be weird.

Maybe I'm not using the term right. By bullnosed I mean rounded wall corners:
http://www.customhometrends.com/rounded-drywall-corners/

I discovered these during a visit to a friend who had bought a home in a planned retirement community. Her house had been designed for elderly occupants so all walls had rounded corners. As I said I have kids and at the time an elderly father so these had strong safety appeal for me.

If you can you may wish to check out a model home in such a community. Some of my suggestions may sound odd but you may change your mind when you see them applied.

I live in a house with bullnose currently. It works well with traditional design (craftsman, Tudor, queen Anne, etc) but straight corners are more appropriate for what we are doing.we actually won't have many outside drywall corners though.

Darrell In Phoenix says

New Renter says

Did the OP say the home was to be multi-story? I must have missed it.

Then why use them?

I didn't say one SHOULD use 2x4" only that 2x6" may not be required by local code for outer single story walls.

Kevin says

I live in a house with bullnose currently. It works well with traditional design (craftsman, Tudor, queen Anne, etc) but straight corners are more appropriate for what we are doing.we actually won't have many outside drywall corners though.

My project was a rebuild of a 1970s CA ranch. It worked well there too. In your case of course you should do what you feel works best. Its your house after all!

Hire a retired code inspector or one who moonlights from a nearby town.

Official inspectors catch almost nothing, especially if they are buddies with the builder.

Darrell In Phoenix says

New Renter says

Where you are perhaps, not necessarily in more temperate climates.

You conflated the dimension with climates not code.

Which would make sense if the additional thickness was necessary to combat more extreme climates than we have here in coastal CA.

I am not a builder, I have a limited knowledge of the code so yes, 2x6s may be a universal requirement for all outer wall construction. Perhaps Darrell you'd care to prove your point by directing our attention to the applicable portion of the California building code?

C Boy says

Hire a retired code inspector or one who moonlights from a nearby town.

Official inspectors catch almost nothing, especially if they are buddies with the builder.

Agreed.

Darrell In Phoenix says

IBC governs.

Fine - point to the applicable portion of whatever code applies

Darrell In Phoenix says

Go look it up yourself bud.

http://shop.iccsafe.org/2012-international-building-code-1.html

Thanks but I have better plans for my money than that.

Darrell In Phoenix says

You're lazy.

That is true. I am also cheap. The link you provided is to purchase copies of the code for a minimum of $122.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Go look it up yourself bud.

http://shop.iccsafe.org/2012-international-building-code-1.html

New Renter says

Darrell In Phoenix says

New Renter says

Where you are perhaps, not necessarily in more temperate climates.

You cannot use 2x4"'s in perimeter and shear walls on a two story structure, period.

Did the OP say the home was to be multi-story? I must have missed it.

It will be, but that's beside the point. I don't know of any reputable builders that frame with 2x4s around here. Between the added structural integrity and the additional insulation, the relatively small price difference is well worth it.

Oh, and the IBC isn't really adequate if you live in/near a big city. In seattle, something like a third of the IBC stuff is modified by addendums anyway. It's crazy.

According to this 2x4s on exterior walls are not a violation of code:

http://www.askcodeman.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=270