patrick.net

David Losh says

Today they proposed putting armed police in all schools saying the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is by having a good guy with a gun. Then the statement went on to say we need a national data base of the mentally ill.

I suspect that will only lead to crazy people collecting data on other crazy people and mentally ill people with guns patrolling our schools on the look out for mentally ill people coming to school with guns.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

They supported gun control when the Panthers started carrying hardware.

That was why I have always disliked the NRA.

You are correct, and I had forgotten about it.

They flip flop on gun rights, that are supposed to be for every one.

Good guys with guns

As in the police?

I hope their bad ideas die off with them, fascist fucktard mother fuckers

"Indeed LaPierre blamed everything but guns: video games, decade-old movies, you name it. "

Anyone that thinks our society can continue on this route, GUNS or no GUNS, is really fooling them selves. I only see to out comes. The first one would really be oppressive and would be a very slippery slope to realizing our worst fears about everything that is wrong with Government censorship and Dictators silencing freedom of speech.
The second option would be very easy, but the ball is the court of our entertainment industry. They could chose to scawf at the idea, while curing out an endless parade of mind rotting violent movies, perverse story plots, Dark comedy with sociopaths doing evil shit, without a shred of remorse, teen sex and violence people committing heinous crimes while being the Hero of the movie. And then there's music that exploits women, glorifies homicide and instills the hood culture in preteens. Who believe if you're disrespected it's your right to bust a cap in someone's ass. There hasn't been a block buster with a the good guy wins plot, or a feel good story in years.

Am I glad it's come to this, NO. But I think it's a shame that the Media has been hell bent on pushing the envelope every since the Violence debate was ever waged. Their win became their excuse to push filth and violence on our youth utilizing every available medium.
Before it wasn't that bad, as the content did fit the plots and, there were still some good solid story telling for alternatives. Now there's no escape, it's just a constant bombardment. Any non edgy (violence, sex, crime) story plots, it seems they go out of their way to make the worst cheesy movie they could possibly make.

And let's not kid our selves, the Liberal channels have been producing a shitload of Gun Culture reality shows, which now they are back peddling on. I guess getting the Conservative NRA ratings, was more important than their principals. But now that Violence is back in the spot light, rather than taking an honest look at them selves, it's just easier to blame the people that they were just pandering to with the shows like "Gun Country" "American Guns" "Sharp Shooters" ect...

Also when these tragedies come, they never want to look at productions they've made like "Natural Born killers" or Video games that were created like "Assassins Creed".

It would be alot easier to get rid of the bad programming content, by just not airing it, than it would be to get rid of 300 million guns.
My suggestion to a nation armed with 300 million guns, would be, you better make nice. We're not getting any wiser.

It is not just guns that can turn into a weapon. Isn't it a good idea to have a police officer in every school, regardless of how fast they can respond? And even if you have gun control, what do you do with the guns out there already? I think gun control is a good idea. But I also thought having police offices in school was a good idea.

Most realtors are NAR and NRA members. ;)

One = National Association Of Rodents

The other = National Rodent Association

(It's important to understand these basic differences..)

Butch says

Japan has 1 death per 1.5 million people while the U.S.A. has 10 in 100,000 people. The facts are there. No dispute.

I like how everyone talks about how Japan doesn't have any guns.
They never had guns, they went straight from Feudalism to the Modern era with out ever having guns.

But they did once have a warrior class, that would have been their gun owners when the modern era arrived.
You great students of History remember how they got rid of all of the Samurai right?

That would be the only way we would get rid of our gun culture as well.
By prying the guns from the fingers of the NRA card members. They weren't lying, this is serious stuff.

What's wrong with having police in schools? When I was young our school always had 2 police officers on site.

You want crime to spread? Get rid of all of the police.

FortWayne says

What's wrong with having police in schools?

Well if you had that then the people paying a million dollar to live in the Good school districts will feel quite stupid. If the police got rid of Ray Ray and Darell who have been holding the learning institutions hostage while they hold street code court. Then all of the schools became environments conducive to learning. It goes against the Liberal agenda to have law and order in the schools.

FTR anyone that thinks the NRA are idiots for coming up with a new way to create a new demand for guns, should turn that finger inward.

CaptainShuddup says

Well if you had that then the people paying a million dollar to live in the Good school districts will fell quite stupid. If the police got rid of Ray Ray and Darell who have been holding the learning institutions hostage while they hold street code court. Then all of the schools became environments conducive to learning. It goes against the Liberal agenda to have law and order in the schools.

It always surprises me how the left has no problem taking, taxing, and spending millions of dollars to provide security to government employees and their personal property, but as soon as it comes to spending a penny on protecting children they start playing the "we won't pay for that" card.

CaptainShuddup says

Also when these tragedies come, they never want to look at productions they've made like "Natural Born killers" or Video games that were created like "Assassins Creed".

Try Beowulf, or Odysseus. Full of gratuitous violence. Same shit, different era.

The biggest players of video games are Japanese and Swedes, also the least violent in reality.

Violent Crimes have substantially decreased over the past couple of decades as the sales of video games, inc. the most violent ones, have exponentially increased.

thunderlips11 says

Try Beowulf, or Odysseus. Full of gratuitous violence. Same shit, different era.

It's not the stories it's the graphic depiction. If you don't think there's a huge difference in writing on a papyrus "Then Odysseus smite the Cyclops" and a HD 3D personalized avatar graphically cleaving someones head off with beautiful shading and rendering realistic blood gushing in 1080dp, with the ability to pause and pan around different perspectives. Then there's really no debate here.

CaptainShuddup says

It's not the stories it's the graphic depiction. If you don't think there's a huge difference in writing on a papyrus "Then Odysseus smite the Cyclops"...

From Beowulf.

"If Grendel wins, it will be a gruesome day;
he will glut himself on the Geats in the war-hall,
swoop without fear on that flower of manhood
as on others before. Then my face won't be there
to be covered in death: he will carry me away
as he goes to ground, gorged and bloodied;
he will run gloating with my raw corpse
and feed on it alone, in a cruel frenzy,
fouling his moor-nest." (442-450)

It is the culture too. When you combine individualism with slave-morality (Nietzsche) you have an extreme form of the me-against-the-world mentality.

Alas, God is dead, we have killed him.

Real individualists respect other people as individuals.

What about the First Amendment? I want to see pictures of the inside of the Sandy Hook School on CNN 24 hours a day and on the front page of every newspaper!

boldej says

What about the First Amendment? I want to see pictures of the inside of the Sandy Hook School on CNN 24 hours a day and on the front page of every newspaper!

That is not the freedom of SPEECH. You do not have a RIGHT to the "speech" made by others

For example, you do not have the right to see the inside of a movie theater unless you have bought a ticket.

The NRA is 100% right.

Armed guards are the only way to keep people from being killed.

Feeding records of those who were determined to be dangers to themselves or others, incompetent to manage their own affairs, or involuntarily committed following due process (where they had time to contest the charges, were allowed legal representation, and the matter was decided by a judge) to the National Instant Check System is the only way to limit such peoples' purchase of firearms through legal channels.

Guns . . . the cause of and the solution to all our problems.

You'd almost think the NRA was front organization for gun and ammo manufacturers.

Was there ever a National Cigarette Organization???

La Pierre is the most dangerous person in the country. The mother of every child that dies with a gun should slap him.
Mr. La Pierre.......The ONLY thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who takes away all the guns.

Raw says

Mr. La Pierre.......The ONLY thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who takes away all the guns.

That's not possible.

Jamaica tried with handguns in 1974. They looked for guns with warrantless searches, created special gun courts, had secret trials, and imposed mandatory life sentences for possession.

Their murder rate skyrocketed to 60 per 100,000 following the ban.

NRA did make a great suggestion here. And it's something the left won't care to listen too when they are too busy scoring political points.

We guard our airports, we guard our banks, we have TSA, why not our children? We need a real solution to real problems in today's world, not the left wing knee jerk political reactions to score political points by instituting some sort of a ban that the left is screaming for.

FortWayne says

We guard our airports, we guard our banks, we have TSA, why not our children? We need a real solution to real problems in today's world, not the left wing knee jerk political reactions to score political points by instituting some sort of a ban that the left is screaming for.

Our schools do not need guns, Columbine had security, made no difference. You want to scare the kids, create a greater culture of fear starting with 5yr olds?

What's wrong with you?

Ban assault rifles, stop deflecting.

Sign this petition

http://www.demandaplan.org/

The only jerk here is you!

Don't like the idea of armed policemen at the schools. Instead have 3-4 guns, in lock boxes at the school where 3-4 highly vetted employees are selected, trained, and licensed to have access to the guns strictly for instances of gun violence. Really not that difficult, in fact it is already commonplace at schools across the country.

It is not practical to have cops in every school for budgetary reasons nor is it a good idea for many other reasons. But having a handful of people trained and certified to use guns in this extremely rare instance is part of the answer.

121212 says

FortWayne says

We guard our airports, we guard our banks, we have TSA, why not our children? We need a real solution to real problems in today's world, not the left wing knee jerk political reactions to score political points by instituting some sort of a ban that the left is screaming for.

Our schools do not need guns, Columbine had security, made no difference. You want to scare the kids, create a greater culture of fear starting with 5yr olds?

What's wrong with you?

Ban assault rifles, stop deflecting.

Sign this petition

http://www.demandaplan.org/

The only jerk here is you!

The Clinton ban ran 1994-2004.

Columbine happened in 1999 in _spite_ of the ban with one of the shooters using a so-called "Feinstein Special" as an alternative to the "assault weapon" formerly produced by its manufacturer.

Rent4Ever says

It is not practical to have cops in every school for budgetary reasons

Wrong.

For the 2009-2010 school year there were 98,817 public schools in America.

At a fully burdened cost of $200K per officer (including pension, etc.) it would only cost $20 billion a year to have one present at each school during the day.

Paid for with federal money it'd only be a 0.7% increase in our budget which is a small price to pay for the children. As a country that can give people nearing the end of their lives Medicare Part D for $100 billion a year we should be able to come up with 1/5th that amount for people with their entire lives ahead of them

drew_eckhardt says

Rent4Ever says

It is not practical to have cops in every school for budgetary reasons

Wrong.

For the 2009-2010 school year there were 98,817 public schools in America.

At a fully burdened cost of $200K per officer (including pension, etc.) it would only cost $20 billion a year to have one present at each school during the day.

Paid for with federal money it'd only be a 0.7% increase in our budget which is a small price to pay for the children.

Schools are big. A gunman could easily come through one end, start shooting and by the time the officer gets there, a 100 kids could be dead.
If you want the success other countries have in controlling gun massacres, we have to do what they do.
And we all know what they do.

drew_eckhardt says

Raw says

Mr. La Pierre.......The ONLY thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who takes away all the guns.

That's not possible.

Jamaica tried with handguns in 1974. They looked for guns with warrantless searches, created special gun courts, had secret trials, and imposed mandatory life sentences for possession.

Their murder rate skyrocketed to 60 per 100,000 following the ban.

These are cherry picked statistics. If you cherry pick enough, you could even prove the world is flat.
Lets do what the rest of the developed world does and ban these "weapons of mass slaughter" We don't live in the wild west anymore, we live in a civilized space age.

IDDQD says

Raw says

Mr. La Pierre.......The ONLY thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who takes away all the guns.

... i.e. "good guy" with even more and bigger guns?

Good guys like President Obama who has the solution to a very serious problem.

IDDQD says

Raw says

Good guys like President Obama who has the solution to a very serious problem.

And what exactly is his solution for stopping school massacres? AWB again? Weak. He has no fresh ideas, just same old failed DiFi crap.

His solution is to start banning assault weapons.
Look at it this way....If there are no guns, no one can die with guns. Am I wrong?

IDDQD says

Raw says

His solution is to start banning assault weapons.

This is the old DiFi crap that already once failed to prevent school shootings. I asked about fresh ideas to stop them. Apparently he has none.

Look at it this way....If there are no guns, no one can die with guns. Am I wrong?

This is material for "Miss Universe" pageant speech, not for serious discussion.

Let's get back to question at hand: Obama's fresh and realistic ideas to stop school massacres once and for all.

So what solutions did that crazy La Pierre offer? More guns. Really? Is this a joke?
That's like trying to cure a heroine addict with a lot more heroine.

The point the NRA missed was that the 2nd Amendment calls for a well regulate militia.

We called out the National Guard to fight in Iraq, but I think they would have better served as home defence.

THe NRA could have asked for militia training that would augment the police department with volunteers, They could provide gun traing, and safety, they could have offered logistical support.

They could have pointed to the National Guard as a starting point. The could have offered proactive solutions that would help safe guard out streets, schools, and neighborhoods.

Alright, you may not like the idea, but it would have established a dialog.

What I took away from today's press statement is they are giving commands, looking for monsters, and blaming every one. There was nothing positive in what they said, and then they slinked off, once again, behind closed doors.

Who doesn't have a proclivity to addiction to opiates?

Obviously you've just never had the opportunity to get down like charlie brown. Pussy

I can't believe some of the idiocy here. Armed guards in schools? Seriously? What happens when a shooter targets a Chuck E Cheese? Wait, that happened. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russell-foltzsmith/shadows_b_1693613.html

Are you going to have armed guards at every playground, little league ballpark, ice rink, and every other place kids congregate?

Drew_eckhardt, I bet you got your analogy about Jamaica from John Lott in this piece: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/25/john-lott-kingston-jamaica-murder-gun-ban-violence-chicago-washington/

The guy is a total hack. Watched him on CNN the other night, lying through his teeth about gun violence in the UK. I can recite legitimate stats from the UK, Japan, and Australia that show gun violence falling off a cliff when strict gun control was implemented.

I have fired lots of guns in my life, family owned a rifle, and believe bolt action rifles are fine to own.

When are people going to realize the NRA is out of control, are spokesmen for the gun manufacturers, and are using people as pawns under the guise of the Second Amendment? They are literally making a killing.

Why don't we just give the $20 billion to schools directly and outlaw assault weapons and any clips over 5 rounds?

I thought you meant the National Realtor Association.

Waitingtobuy says

I can't believe some of the idiocy here. Armed guards in schools? Seriously?

There was a paid armed Sheriff's deputy "guarding" Columbine. Let's see how well that fantasy of perfect protection worked out shall we?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

Even assuming the deputies in the immediate vicinity were in the building, how likely is it that in a large high school with 2,000 or more students they'd have been in the right positions to do the right thing at a crucial early moment?

drew_eckhardt says

Rent4Ever says

It is not practical to have cops in every school for budgetary reasons

Wrong.

For the 2009-2010 school year there were 98,817 public schools in America.

At a fully burdened cost of $200K per officer (including pension, etc.) it would only cost $20 billion a year to have one present at each school during the day.

Paid for with federal money it'd only be a 0.7% increase in our budget which is a small price to pay for the children. As a country that can give people nearing the end of their lives Medicare Part D for $100 billion a year we should be able to come up with 1/5th that amount for people with their entire lives ahead of them

20 Billion dollars is 20 Billion dollars. Nothing to sneeze at. You may think that is an efficient use of those funds, but many others will not. The budgetary aspect is only part of the problem. I also do not think that simply having ONE armed person at the school is enough. There needs to be multiple people with access to firearms and their identities need to be kept hidden. In other words, the public needs to know that every public school has a handful of employees with access to firearms in the school, and they won't be wearing a hat and uniform showing the world that they are the ones with the guns. Plus it doesn't flaunt the guns presence in the school nor create the type of atmosphere that many are afraid of.

Guns are a deterrent for violence when 1) There are guns that can be used against the criminal 2) It is not known where the guns are and who has them. #1 prevents a certain % of wackos from even trying to do something like Newtown at a school. #2 allows for the most efficient way to stop a wacko once he's already begun in the school.

David Losh says

We can have a more secure gun policy in this country, but it has to start with the people involved. Today's statement was just absolute nonsense.

He also heavily blamed MSM and entertainment industry for this culture of violence. I happen to agree with him on that one.