patrick.net

If you want to avoid ever fighting about money, maintain three checking accounts.

One for household expenses. Housing, utilities, food, etc.

Each spouse has their own account. Put a few hundred bucks per month in it. Spend it on whatever you like.

Don't fall into the stay at home parent model if you live in the suburbs. Actually, avoid living in the suburbs period.

Don't have kids until you're both settled career wise.

Don't have more than two kids. Being outnumbered sucks.

Live near family for free babysitting.

Travel a lot.

Don't

One bank account, stay at home Mom live in the suburbs, and had kids while I was young and poor so the Liberals would pay for it. Although the wife's family does live close, they were never our baby sitters. Even though they would gladly do it. The kids went where ever we went. We'd go out at night, if the daughters spent the night at a friends house or their cousins.
sleep overs = free baby sitters
Both my daughters are straight A students.

Oh yah, one more thing (thx Cap'n for reminding me).
Date nights are absolutely essential when you have kids! Do them at least once every other week. Even if you have to hire a babysitter, do it. We have a regular sitter and she's worth her weight in solid formula. Use groupons to get cheap dinners and try new stuff while you're out. Avoid the movie theater unless you absolutely have to see a new movie. It's a waste of a date night, and she won't ultimately appreciate the date.

I am old school, an I believe in marriage.

People get into trouble for assuming that there are no other options and/or failing to communicate.

In addition to marriage, one can also consider serial monogamy.

Instead of divorce, one may consider opening up the marriage (mutual acceptance of extramarital affairs). [Talk to a lawyer first and confirm the legality in your place of residence]

But in any case, communication is the most important thing in any kind of relationship.

You goto feel for a polygamist! Are these men crazy?

More than one wife would be insane? Imagine not having sex with 4 woman and keeping 30 kids under 4 roofs! LMFAO.

121212 says

You goto feel for a polygamist! Are these men crazy?

More than one wife would be insane? Imagine not having sex with 4 woman and keeping 30 kids under 4 roofs! LMFAO.

It depends on the culture. In many polygamous societies, the man is,"The Man"and children are put to work and earn their keep from very young ages. A 5 yr old is already working and contributing to the family, not throwing tantrums.

Our cultural prism is different, so one can't judge them by our culture-which really isn't American culture, but the wreckage that pseudofeminism has done . I mean, if you want to work and be an equal- great-laws should reflect that. Not have your cake and eat it too-where you get to work, but if you stay at home and do nothing, the law gives you half of everything after a few years. Tiger Wood's ex got what-100 million for 4 years of marraige. You want to marry the world's biggest sports stars and yet want him to be a homebody and not cheat? Then marry the toll collector or the garbage dump truck driver-this is just preposterous.

Peter P says

I am old school, an I believe in marriage.

Peter P says

Instead of divorce, one may consider opening up the marriage (mutual acceptance of extramarital affairs).

Which old school did you attend?

Goran_K says

've NEVER met anyone who said "the sex sustained them" over the long haul.

Maybe you never met anyone who was horny enough?

lostand confused says

A 5 yr old is already working and contributing to the family, not throwing tantrums.

I don't agree with child abuse or child slavery, thats awful.

Quigley says

Once kids come along, expect less sex.

This one in pretty high on my long list of reasons not to have kids.

121212 says

lostand confused says

A 5 yr old is already working and contributing to the family, not throwing tantrums.

I don't agree with child abuse or child slavery, thats awful.

Based on what? It is either that or they starve. It is just their culture. America used to be that way when farms were the norm.

121212 says

I don't agree with child abuse or child slavery, thats awful.

I agree, and for some strange reason it's OK to import goods made with child labor and sell them in the US. That's just as wrong.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/italys-berlusconi-told-pay-nearly-50-million-per-050000727.html

Italy's Berlusconi Told to Pay Nearly $50 Million Per Year in Alimony

Just days after the 76-year-old Berlusconi, Italy’s billionaire media tycoon and three-time prime minister, announced he got engaged to Pasquale, 27, terms of divorce from Berlusconi’s second wife, Veronica Lario, were revealed.

He will pay her €36 million ($47.2 million) per year in alimony payments. That works out to be nearly €100,000 ($131,000) per day.

Obligatory:
Prostitutes would have been cheaper.

zzyzzx says

Italy's Berlusconi Told to Pay Nearly $50 Million Per Year in Alimony

Just days after the 76-year-old Berlusconi, Italy’s billionaire media tycoon and three-time prime minister, announced he got engaged to Pasquale, 27, terms of divorce from Berlusconi’s second wife, Veronica Lario, were revealed.

He will pay her €36 million ($47.2 million) per year in alimony payments. That works out to be nearly €100,000 ($131,000) per day.

Obligatory:

Prostitutes would have been cheaper.

If you're a billionaire then most definitely, you should have a global harem, with a full time sugar baby stationed at each of your favorite global ports: London, Barcelona, Singapore, Tokyo, Sydney, Rio, etc.

The contract stuff is for the middle class folks, who need a sense of stability in a world. The rich only need marriage for inheritance reasons but I suspect that a billionaire could also work with a surrogate mother as well. Successful soccer player, Cristiano Ronaldo, did just that ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1292094/Cristiano-Ronaldo-father-paying-surrogate-baby.html

zzyzzx says

Obligatory:
Prostitutes would have been cheaper

And more honest.

I know I'm not a guy, however, I play one on TV.

Kidding.

Actually, I played a role in the drafting and passing of the Georgia child support reform bill (hb 221 in 2005)... so I figure that grants me honorary "guy" status.

You don't have a crystal ball, so there is no way you can know for sure that the marriage will or will not work out. Assuming you both see eye-to-eye on most things then you have as good a shot as any. Unfortunately, people can and do change. In some cases, those changes are good. And in others, they are not. The only way to truly protect yourself is to avoid marriage altogether. Though some might see that as a reasonable option, I think it's a rather lonely choice.

Getting out of a bad marriage is simpler when no kids are involved. IMHO, use the first couple of years of your marriage to be sure that you are both ready for children. Use those years to make sure that you are indeed happy in the marriage. Dissolution of a marriage is much more complicated (and expensive) once kids are involved. Please don't have kids to keep your marriage together. Better to have a divorce without kids than be shackled to a bad marriage because of kids.

Once kids are involved, THE DECK IS STACKED AGAINST YOU. Courts, in general, believe that the calves belong with the cows. You can try fighting for custody, but unless you can prove she's an axe-wielding crack whore, you're gunna have trouble.

The pendulum has swung dramatically in favor of women on these issues. You will be lucky to see your kids every-other-weekend plus a weekday. You will be marginalized to the position of "wallet." Child support awards have nothing to do with the needs of the children. You will pay, pay, and pay some more based on tables (or percentages) that are so far removed from reality you will forget you are in the USA.

You might be thinking, surely the court would recognize that my educated and capable wife should also contribute to the financial well being of our children? Yeah... you'd think that, but it isn't the case in many situations. I have seen cases (Cobb County, GA) where the man has 50/50 custody, makes the same income as his ex-wife, and still has to pay c/s to the ex-wife.

Anyway... I guess what I'm trying to say is that a marriage without kids has somewhat of a do-over factor... You can get out relatively unscathed. Once you have kids, however, there is no clean slate. Visitation, child support, and alimony will shackle you to your ex-wife for the better part of your productive years.

So, true story, a friend of mine was cleaning pools in HB harbor and saw the house across the street. Every day he was there a different hot chick would come out, jump in an expensive car, and motor off. He asked the neighbor whose house that was and the neighbor was like, "that's Neil Diamond's pad!"
So what I'm thinking the dude does is buy a hot chick a car, probably on a lease. Then every month she comes over to make her "payment."
30 cars would about do the trick, right?

You can be the greatest guy on earth but 'she can change her mind'. And unless you make boatloads of money, when you get divorced and/or have kids, under California's laws your life is toast.

Another advice, read The Prince.

marriage is the quickest and most efficient way to legally combined assets. the rewards are slim, and the risks are unfair to the breadwinner (usually the male). ppl conflate long term commitment with the legal concept of marriage; that is how many men suffer badly during the divorce fallout. a marriage is all good until it isnt, and that fallout will induce life-changing stress the more invested you are in the marriage.

Divorce takes health toll that remarriage can't heal
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-28/health/divorce.marriage.health_1_chronic-conditions-divorced-people-health-care?_s=PM:HEALTH

on a side note, i expect to see cohabitation increase in highly educated ppl in the coming decade. legal marriage will be pushed further into the 30's age bracket.

taxee says

You can be the greatest guy on earth but 'she can change her mind'. And unless you make boatloads of money, when you get divorced and/or have kids, under California's laws your life is toast.

exactly. it is her prerogative to change her mind. then she opts for the "cash and prizes" option.

CaptainShuddup says

Oxygen says

In a western culture that celebrates the hook-up culture, marriage is a failing bet even for people like me.

In Asian cultures Children are an investment for care when the parents are elderly. There is a phenomena right now that many of the children are choosing a gay life style. These are cultures that have in recent times decided on a once child limit. Their future is in jeopardy, as well the gene pool of their ancestral blood line, of being cut off for the ages.

gene pool is not cut off if your siblings have kids

personally, i think the legacy thing is a crock of shit.

BayArea says

121212 says

BayArea says

Sex certainly won't sustain a relationship in the long run, but if there isn't sexual chemistry, it will end one quickly.

Marriage has nothing to do with SEX!

By getting married I am committing to abstaining from sex with other women. Therefore, the topic of marriage and sex are as linked to me as marriage and kids, marriage and finances, etc. Marriage without the sex is a 1-way ticket to you know where.

I'm a married woman and going to chime in here. Before you get married, have a clear understanding of what each other's definition of an affair is. Be ready to give concrete examples.

Please elaborate on the affair definition recommendation.

rufita11 says

Before you get married, have a clear understanding of what each other's definition of an affair is.

And also what is is.

Oxygen says

gene pool is not cut off if your siblings have kids

personally, i think the legacy thing is a crock of shit.

It's also not cut off if your cousins have kids. Or if your second cousins have kids, etc. That whole last name thing is a bunch of shit too. Even with my extremely rare last name, I am reasonably sure that in Eastern Europe there are plenty.

Gene pool legacy... Chuckle

taxee says

You can be the greatest guy on earth but 'she can change her mind'. And unless you make boatloads of money, when you get divorced and/or have kids, under California's laws your life is toast.

That or you are broke and unemployed-then you are fine!!!

I was married and was very happy being so. She made it clear to me often that she was too. A dozen years later, she told me she had never cared about me at all, that she was only ever interested in the financial investments and wanted to be with someone else. Unfortunately for her, all of my investments were locked up tight and untouchable. She got nada. Boy was she pissed. You could almost see the daggers popping out of her eyes and the steam shooting out of her ears. We're talking crazy, spitting, red faced, cursing, arms flying angry. Because she had a job and we had no kids, I had no alimony or child support payments either. The thing I'll never get over is how she was able to cooly manipulate me through the years. She seemed so sincere, sweet, innocent and loving. It was as if someone stole the person I knew one day and replaced it with a monsterous psychopath the next. I was literally dumbfounded by the fact that I had no clue whatsoever who she really was. Years later, I still have nightmares.

BRP001 says

The thing I'll never get over is how she was able to cooly manipulate me through the years.

Perhaps she was manipulated by some other person? Someone could have convinced her that she never had feelings even though she did. A weak mind is quite easy to brainwash.

A quality manipulative person will follow through with the act and will never tell you that it has been fake. It is not a book and it does not have to be told for the benefit of the readers.

^^^

I would love to hear her side of the story. Sounds like she really resented you for some reason. By saying she never cared for you, it's just an untrue way to hurt you because of how she feels about you now if I had to guess. If that was her intent from the beginning, it's not likely that she would have waited 12yrs.

In any case, thanks for sharing. It sounds like an awful experience

BRP: I'd say there are two options to explain this story.
1) she was a sociopath, lying from the start to get what she wanted. If so, there would have been other signs. The biggest sign is that they want you to feel sorry for them all the time.
2) you neglected her. She found a new man who paid her the romantic attention she craved. She "fell in love" with the new guy and wanted nothing more to do with you, except for your money. At this point, with new and wonderful feelings for the next guy, all she remembers from your relationship are the downsides. So she figures, a dozen years with a dud entitles her to something! She got all invested in that idea, maybe even took out loans in anticipation of a big payout, then you crushed her dreams of wealth. So she wa spitting mad.

Which one makes the most sense?

Did a lot of research after the divorce. I Googled "never loved him", "never loved her", divorce, affair and other similar search terms combined together. I found stories from both men and women that were similar to mine. The conclusion I came to is that it was financially beneficial for her to stay with me, until someone came along that she really fell for. In her mind, divorce had no down side. It is not at all uncommon for people to marry for money. I've even heard people say that was their reason beforehand. The legal protections I had on my assets were to prevent losses through law suits. It just so happens that they also protect assets in divorce.

Quigley says

Once kids come along, expect less sex. It doesn't have to dry up, but it's much harder to have time and energy for it all the time. Also kids are like throwing a hand grenade into your loving relationship. I'd recommend reading "Babyproofing your marriage" which is a book for people who want to stay married through having kids. It's just so hard, nobody would do it if they knew, and nobody who is a parent would ever want to go back and unmake their children. Well, almost nobody. Some parents are awful and some children are hellions.

Here's a good joke:

Q: What's the most fattening food?

A: wedding cake

That's good info, maybe you want to read that book referenced. It definitely is extremely hard and it is a mistake to stay together by any means even if you're not happy. However whatever you decide, support each other as parents for your child(ren) and don't ever put them in the middle. A good exercise would be to do a mental breakup exercise - or, if you have the time and cojones - really break up with the possibility of dating or sex (with others) in between and see if you can actually stay friends. If you cannot stay friends, don't do it because your divorce will be a bitch.

zzyzzx says

Oxygen says

gene pool is not cut off if your siblings have kids

personally, i think the legacy thing is a crock of shit.

It's also not cut off if your cousins have kids. Or if your second cousins have kids, etc. That whole last name thing is a bunch of shit too. Even with my extremely rare last name, I am reasonably sure that in Eastern Europe there are plenty.

Or (can be in addition to your kid(s)) you can adopt someone totally out of yours or your spouses heritage, that will do wonders for your gene pool. Maybe you always wanted to have a presence in Asia ;)

Oxygen says

taxee says

You can be the greatest guy on earth but 'she can change her mind'. And unless you make boatloads of money, when you get divorced and/or have kids, under California's laws your life is toast.

exactly. it is her prerogative to change her mind. then she opts for the "cash and prizes" option.

True dat.

zzyzzx says

Quigley says

Once kids come along, expect less sex.

This one in pretty high on my long list of reasons not to have kids.

Yeah, I partied so hard before to be ready to slow down, but as long as you keep yourself reasonably healthy your desire for sex will always be more than the amount you will have after kids. Plus, in a relationship it is often used as a control mechanism, esp. during fights, mostly by women but occasionally it can be the opposite. This is one of the worst things to do and yet it is the supported norm today. It's somehow ok for the woman to say "if you are not the partner I want you to be I am less attracted and therefor will have less or no sex with you", but then getting mad and running for divorce court when the guy gets it elsewhere.

Well, Anna Nicole Smith , Tiger Wood's ex etc all married for the money. You think if either of those were poor, then those chicks would have married them??

The thing is back then if you divorced you got diddly sqat. Which the feminists changed the laws on. Back then I agree-women like many minoirites were legally or socially prevented from working. But they fought for that freedom and so those laws need to go.For the time you were married, you got food, shelter, clothes-be grateful and now get a job. End of that.

It is like Hulk Hogan's wife. Just imagine how much effort, physical stress etc he had to go through to earn his fortune-she got 70% of it and now is shacked up with a 20 yr old kid. Why stay, when you can dump him , get half and get a boytoy to boot????? Probably what BRP's ex thought?

Our laws are horrible-almost like a Taliban for men. Now that many men are getting wiser and refusing to tie the knot, the feminists are changing laws to grab cash for merely cohabiting together. If you live together, you gotta pay-it is being changed to a legal whorehouse. The pimps/govt thugs enforce payments.

The only way you can avoid paying is to be poor. Like that guy in TN with 33 kids who works in a burger joint. He pays about $1.33 a month per child in child support!

Women are sitting on a gold mine. Some know it, some don't. A Man's mission is to find the ones that don't know it.

Bap33 says

Women are sitting on a gold mine. Some know it, some don't. A Man's mission is to find the ones that don't know it.

The problem is the smart ones know it.

And from and evolutionary standpoint, men want smart women (read, long term purposes)