patrick.net

joe blow says

marriage is slavery if you are the breadwinner, and there is no way out -- divorce courts destroy your life. If you have a decent middle class job, marriage is like playing russian roulette with 3 bullets in the gun.

Middle class is a fragile way to live anyway. There is no other way to put it.

Divorce is an easy out, so many people don't consider how difficult it can really be. There's always emotional fallout, which is magnified if children are involved. People even battle over pets.

BRP001 says

Unfortunately for her, all of my investments were locked up tight and untouchable. She got nada.

Exactly how does one do this?

turtledove says

Having spent several years working on child support reform in Georgia, I know all too well how much the system is abused. Alimony is often flown under the flag of "child support" for tax and other purposes. Men have all choice taken from them, as custodial parents are NEVER required to account for their spending of c/s. Custodial parents often claim all kinds of special expenditures as a way of padding the award and never have to show proof that the money is used for the purposes claimed in their sworn testimony. Without a doubt, the system is very flawed.

But that doesn't change the fact that each parent is responsible for meeting the needs of his and her own children in an equal capacity commensurate with each person's ability to pay... (Based on education level and previous work experience... not one's belief that she is entitled to be a stay-at-home mom for the rest of her life.)

Already really high on my long list of reasons not to have kids.

zzyzzx says

Fantastic, I'll take 5

Edit: Forgot to ask - how many before I can get the volume discount?

Oxygen says

"American women file 70% of the Divorces and the American divorce rate is 50%. South Korea had a 1% divorce rate up until 1990. Until that time Korean men would get the house and children if he wanted them, and women would rarely if ever pay child support, but she would be forced to leave the marriage house unless she proved that there was something seriously wrong with the man. Until 1990, men usually filed for divorce and had to to prove fault with the wife. Since 1990, South Korean divorce laws became more similar to the USA. Since 2000, the South Korean divorce rate has been 45%, and Korean women file 65% of the divorces"

This ought to be front page news in the US. But I am not surprised that it is not.

lostand confused says

The same in China. On divorce , women would get half the apt , even though in most cases, it was the man/his family that bought it. Last year the govt recognized the phenomenon-as there were close to 1 million divorces and so changed the law- so that women won't get the houses.

Now you have abunch of angry Chinese women !!! Whatever happened to living by your heart? Of course you have the feminists up in arms claiming Chinese women are now homeless because of the law and this is a civil rights violation. So a guy buys a home, you live in it free and don't want to be with him anymore-so you want the house and kick him out??

Marriage law in the US could need a similar makeover, too. When will Congress act to abolish slavery, finally? :-)

Peter P says

But marriage is a contract. I expect people to respect it like they would with any other contract.

The problem is that the marriage contract gives the husband no rights whatsoever, and the wife all kinds of rights that will be enforced by law.

As far as I can tell, the only right a man gets through marriage is the following: If your wife, during marriage, gets pregnant and has a child with another man, you have the right (actually obligation) to claim that child as your own.

Some "right" that is. Don't believe me? Look it up.

justme says

Peter P says

But marriage is a contract. I expect people to respect it like they would with any other contract.

The problem is that the marriage contract gives the husband no rights whatsoever, and the wife all kinds of rights that will be enforced by law.

As far as I can tell, the only right a man gets through marriage is the following: If your wife, during marriage, gets pregnant and has a child with another man, you have the right (actually obligation) to claim that child as your own.

Some "right" that is. Don't believe me? Look it up.

presumption of paternity

this is the extent of hook-up culture. it is what it is. can't change it. bottom line is that marriage is not a reasonable bet for most males. it only makes sense for a very small minority of men at certain stages of their life (usually middle age and beyond)

http://www.examiner.com/article/study-shows-female-porn-stars-have-higher-quality-of-life-than-average-women

more gems on the presumption of paternity

- This presumption of paternity is extremely self serving for women. When guys are ordered to pay child support and ordered to raise a child that’s not biologically their own, it’s fine. Women say it’d be fine in reverse. Look how upset females get when someone swaps babies in the maternity ward. I recall lots of women blow their stacks – suing hospitals from one end of the country to the other. So much for being the blood parents “not being important”.

- The presumption of paternity is designed "to be fair to the child." However, in doing so, it is a particularly brutal issue for the man:
1) If the wife has an affair and gives birth to a child who is not the biological child of the husband, the husband is still liable for child support.
2) If a wife separates from her husband (but does not divorce him) and leaves him for another man with whom she has kids, the husband must pay child support for kids that are not his.
3) Men who are the victim of rape are liable for child support
4) Men who have a vasectomy and then their wives cheat and have another child with another man are still liable for child support.

- Why does this unfair issue persist under the guise of fairness to the child?
It reduces welfare. That's it. If you whine and cry about the cost of welfare in this country be sure to give yourself a pat on the back for ensuring the continuation of such policies - because you are responsible for their continuance. If conservatives and libertarians didn't whine so much about the cost of welfare, these policies would no longer exist. These policies exist because someone actually does have to pay for that kid. Since the actual fathers of those kids are probably no longer in the picture (if their identities are even known) and since conservatives don't like welfare, the only other source of money is the guys that these whores are married to. Want to put an end to it?

Oxygen says

Why does this unfair issue persist under the guise of fairness to the
child?
It reduces welfare.

Yup, actually CA is better than most in this regard. Once you prove through DNA, that the child is not yours, you stop paying. But many states-eg FL-force you to pay up , even though DNA has proven that the woman lied. Instead of the woman being charged with fraud, you pay up for the reminder of that child's life-until he/she reaches 18 . What fraud-back in the day, such women were tarred and feathered-now the govt under threat of arrest and seizure of your assets forces you to pay such a woman. Then you wonder many men are starting to lose respect for women in general.

These laws brought on by the feminists-ironically under the guise of equality-are the sole cause of this mess. Govt should get out of this and marraige should be a private affair-if you split you move on and forge your own path. But of course, any suggestion asking women to act as equals and stand on their own two feet gets you labelled as a misogynist.

a factor that hasnt been discussed yet is dowries.

as a Chinese American born here, I am also subject to Chinese traditions. so not only am I required to pay $75k to the wife's family, I also get subjected to American divorce laws.

Oxygen says

a factor that hasnt been discussed yet is dowries.

as a Chinese American born here, I am also subject to Chinese traditions. so not only am I required to pay $75k to the wife's family, I also get subjected to American divorce laws.

Go gay and neither of those will be a problem for you.

(there's a reason the word for happy now means homosexual)

BayArea says

As a side note, I am really curious about the following. What is the divorce rate assuming the following:

Both Members are devout Catholic ?

Both Members are devout Christian ?

Both Members are devout Muslim ?

Both Members are Atheist ?

Members don't share religious beliefs ?

Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

it appears if neither of you belong to a faith group, your marriage has a better chance of surviving. BTW, the 'non denominational' evangelical divorce rate is reported to be upwards of 34%. Ironic, huh?

Advice for a young man about relationships. First of all my wife and I have differing religious views and it has not been a problem as we never tried to force each other into it, we accepted our differences there.

Things I've learned over years is that relationship is kind of like a full time career job. You go into it knowing nothing, and you learn it as you go with it. And you learn to accept each others little quarks and learn all the unspoken rules.

You get out of it what you put into it. And most important thing is to never quit trying to be the best you can be for your wife and she'll reciprocate.

Make sure you and your potential mate both have same goals for the family future, otherwise your boat will not go anywhere if you are rowing in opposite directions.

BayArea says

To be honest, I am a bit discouraged at just how many people I know who don't seem to be too happy in their marriages. It always seems to be the same story. Things started off great. There was excitement, adventure, strong physical and emotional chemistry. Then 2-3yrs into it, those feels started to fade. Some couples moved on to the next phase of their lives and had some glue, er I mean kids which kept things fresh and exciting.

Relationships are hard work, if you both don't work at it, it will fail.

BayArea says

As a side note, I am really curious about the following. What is the divorce rate assuming the following:

Both Members are devout Catholic ?

Both Members are devout Christian ?

Both Members are devout Muslim ?

Both Members are Atheist ?

Members don't share religious beliefs ?

Arranged marriages have the lowest divorce rate since it is a marriage based on finances, not emotions.

Oxygen says

Arranged marriages have the lowest divorce rate since it is a marriage based on finances, not emotions.

So in an arraigned marriage your partner is less likely to complain if you fool around?

Oxygen says

not only am I required to pay $75k to the wife's family

Anyone here who actually does that is extremely stupid, and desperate.

my wifes dad gave me a 2 chickens and a mule for taking his daughter off his hands. Seemed fair at the time.

this thread does make that whole go-gay thing seem more logical. It I hooked up with a rich dude, life is good ... well, other than date night. Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

Bap33 says

this thread does make that whole go-gay thing seem more logical. It I hooked up with a rich dude, life is good ... well, other than date night. Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

See, I KNEW you'd come around ;)

New Renter says

Bap33 says

this thread does make that whole go-gay thing seem more logical. It I hooked up with a rich dude, life is good ... well, other than date night. Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

See, I KNEW you'd come around ;)

Yeah, apart from the additional benefits like Social security, medicare, insurance etc. etc. not having the govt in your private business is a Godsend.

You can be together 1 day or 15 years and it is the two of you who decide how you part -not some judge and lawyers or the govt. I think staright and gay marraige should meet half way-we take on their freedom and they get the benefits of straight marraige!

zzyzzx says

BRP001 says

Unfortunately for her, all of my investments were locked up tight and untouchable. She got nada.

Exactly how does one do this?

I am a woman and I want to know how to do this. I get anxious thinking that one day, he could walk away and take half of everything I have worked so hard for.

This happened to a
female executive I know. Her deadbeat husband promised to get a job after the kids were out. He decided it would be best to take a very, very early retirement. She was having none of that, but it cost her dearly.

zzyzzx says

Oxygen says

not only am I required to pay $75k to the wife's family

Anyone here who actually does that is extremely stupid, and desperate.

operative word: required.

also, guess who gets to pay for the wedding

In other news, 86 year old Hugh hefner just married a 26 year old lady.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20655820,00.html?xid=rss-topheadlines

rufita11 says

zzyzzx says

BRP001 says

Unfortunately for her, all of my investments were locked up tight and untouchable. She got nada.

Exactly how does one do this?

I am a woman and I want to know how to do this. I get anxious thinking that one day, he could walk away and take half of everything I have worked so hard for.

This happened to a

female executive I know. Her deadbeat husband promised to get a job after the kids were out. He decided it would be best to take a very, very early retirement. She was having none of that, but it cost her dearly.

There is no guaranteed way. If you can, don't get married and have a life union with your own contract(s) which you still need, just not being married is not enough. If you must get married, then you need an ironclad prenup and likely also a postnup. But parts of those can be tossed out when push comes to shove. Lastly, if you have friends you can trust you can distribute your money in business entities (better if they are foreign) not managed (owned) by you, but with some sort of guarantee that you get regular distributions from them, like from a trust or such. Probably best to pay a really good and expensive lawyer/accountant who has lots of experience with this.

The problem with most marriages in America is that they are owned by the state. When the state is absent from a marriage, a couple can live happily ever after.
The trick is finding a minister that is not a ward of the state.
Or, if you believe in God, just find a witness to document your wedding vows.
You may be limited in commerce, but the freedom is worth it.

carrieon says

The trick is finding a minister that is not a ward of the state.

wife stops working. then she becomes ex-wife and receives alimony and child support. she finds another man, has a Jewish wedding called ketubah ("commitment ceremony"), but not a legal American wedding. Since she is not remarried in the eyes of the American system, her alimony does not cease. The other man is living off the ex-husbands alimony and child support payments. he also gets the pussy for free and none of the legal responsibilities.

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/08/prominent-investor-gets-screwed-by-ex-wifes-lawyering-skills/

Oxygen says

also, guess who gets to pay for the wedding

I assume that you mean that the man does as well.

Oxygen-You must be from the wrong province in China. Apparantely in Fujian province, it is the girl that pays the dowry. Here a father pays a $150 million dollar dowry for his daughter- 150 million USD!!!

http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/150-million-dowry-chinese-businessman-8217-daughter-183400982.html

Bap33 says

my wifes dad gave me a 2 chickens and a mule for taking his daughter off his hands. Seemed fair at the time.

Funniest thing Bap has ever said on this site.

Gotta give props where props are due.

Bap33 says

Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

Sounds like a good date night.

Isn't that exactly what you call "deviant behavior"?

New Renter says

Bap33 says

this thread does make that whole go-gay thing seem more logical. It I hooked up with a rich dude, life is good ... well, other than date night. Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

See, I KNEW you'd come around ;)

Damn, you beat me to it!

zzyzzx says

Straight out of the Bible. Exodus 21:7-11 NLT

Just keep in mind, women can fall off the cliff every month.

Lol, rampant feminism, loud mouths, mostly terrible money management, all the laws favor them, not something I need around. Notice when countries debt problems started, feminism was really taking off. People will get it one day, but not yet. When Russia changed it's alimony/support laws the men went drinking. I laugh when people say relationship is work, I just think, so much for teamwork, last I checked hooking two horses up to the plow should make the job easier on the one, not so, instead you double the load and the man pulls it. Reminds me of all my girlfriends who only call on me when they want something, otherwise they are out chasing the bad boys around town, to funny. Who is always pushing for marriage?, yup the girl, she knows it's a contract and she's going to win when she breaks it.

"For the guys that are married now or have been married, I'm wondering what your experience has been and if you could give a newly engaged man (hypothetical to me since I am not engaged) any piece of advise or wisdom, what would it be?"

1. Read Athol Kay's books. You'll immediately understand why Charlie Sheen spent a small fortune on Call Girls.

2. If a woman you're dating and having sex with gives you the "why buy the cow if you get the milk for free" line, run, don't walk away. The women who spew that moronic line don't give two s**ts about f**king, and view "the deed" as a chore, and when necessary a method of control.

3. If you really feel like she's "the one," try to hard-sell her on living together for a couple years before getting married. The neurotics and otherwise low self-esteem/dysfunctional gals will balk at this because they know their facade is unmaintainable 24/7 when you cohabitate--(you'll see the "real her")

4. Get a few books on prenups and then stick to your guns.

5. MOST IMPORTANT!! If you don't have YOUR OWN LIFEPLAN FOR YOURSELF constructed, strategized and galvonized--and aren't seriously moving forward in it, you've got no business planning a future with a woman, period. Get your plan nailed-down first--THEN find a woman with an at least somewhat parallel plan. NEVER, EVER build your plan around a woman. Women want a man WHO KNOWS EXACTLY WHERE HE'S GOING, although they will periodically "test" us to see if they can knock us off our path. Again, secretly they want us to say stay on our path and not take any of their s**t, although of course they will deny this with their last breath.

DOC