patrick.net

Sad.

Sad is right.

I think MsBennet meant something else. Once you have kids, if you're normal, and they're normal, it all makes sense. Well, maybe once they're 6 months old when they can finally focus on your face and smile. That's really worth a lot. I know it's some biological trick, but I don't care.

Still scared.

Well you have to admit, they Are horrible investments. It cost about $270,000 to raise a child from birth to they are 18, not including college costs. Add a nice private college, that adds a nice 100k to the tab. So looking at it as purely an investment, yes, it's a lousy investment. but having a foster child from birth, it's some of the most rewarding experience of your life. You just can't put a price on the quality improvements to your of life.

Now if your really lucky, maybe when you get old your children will take care of you, instead of shipping you off to a nursing home. That's when your investment may return some dividends.

Peter P says

If you want followers, starting a religion is more practical.

And profitable!

It also provides a ready supply of attractive susceptible young people ready to believe anything you say.

Tax free as well.

What's not to love?

TechGromit says

Now if your really lucky, maybe when you get old your children will take care of you, instead of shipping you off to a nursing home.

Won't you prefer to have caretakers that you can fire?

TechGromit says

but having a foster child from birth, it's some of the most rewarding experience of your life. You just can't put a price on the quality improvements to your of life.

Perhaps I will understand that when I get older. I can barely take care of my cats.

New Renter says

Peter P says

If you want followers, starting a religion is more practical.

And profitable!

It also provides a ready supply of attractive susceptible young people ready to believe anything you say.

Tax free as well.

What's not to love?

Perhaps some tall, blonde high priestesses too. LOL!

Religions are not profitable because non-profits do not have profits. But I guess there are fringe benefits. What about a new jet to preach the spiritual truth? LOL!

You bad, bad person to misuse a religion in this manner. Wink. Wink. ;-)

Fighting to live another day really ain't worth the costs, so might as well eat a bullet for desert

I fully understand that every decision is an economics decision. The flaw in your analysis, is using someone elses metrics. You shouldn't allow USDs to control every aspect of your life,,,you'll likely end up disappointed

You were someones child at one time, do you regret being born? Seriously, what kind of self depreciating kinky shit are you in to

errc says

You shouldn't allow USDs to control every aspect of your life,,,you'll likely end up disappointed

Not just USD. Time too. Money is a renewable resource. Time is not.

errc says

You were someones child at one time, do you regret being born?

You asked the wrong person.

I wonder how the amish would view your assertion

Their children sure seem to provide a return,,,,

errc says

I wonder how the amish would view your assertion

Their children sure seem to provide a return,,,,

Good question.

Yeah, but my son is the best RC race car partner I've ever had. Everytime we go to the park and race around, we both really enjoy it, and hearing him laugh hard because he pushed my car into a ditch is worth it.

I guess I could pay someone to fake it, but I don't know, just doesn't seem like it would be the same...

Peter P says

Kids cost a fortune to raise. Besides, they make you less adaptable to changes. They also increase your risk exposure in the unlikely event of a divorce. Kids are harmful to the environment because overpopulation creates all kinds of ills.

Is there even any tangible upside in having children?

Get help!

Raw says

Get help!

From you? Would you help me pay?

Goran_K says

Yeah, but my son is the best RC race car partner I've ever had. Everytime we go to the park and race around, we both really enjoy it, and hearing him laugh hard because he pushed my car into a ditch is worth it.

I guess I could pay someone to fake it, but I don't know, just doesn't seem like it would be the same...

I guess that is an upside. A very good friend can be hard to come by.

If you have money, you can work with a surrogate mother, instead of risking marriage. Successful soccer player, Cristiano Ronaldo, did just that ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1292094/Cristiano-Ronaldo-father-paying-surrogate-baby.html

Call it Crazy says

Where else can you get your daily dose of aggravation??

Golf.

Children saved me money from the pure entertainment value. They make you laugh your ass off with their antics.

They also keep you from going out and spending all of your money at a bar, restaurant, mall, etc. (Admittedly, they do cost a bit in the toy department).

Having children is no guarantee that you'll have someone to care for you in your old age. And there is no guarantee that they will be "good" or "productive. They might not live up to your expectations...

They're awesome little creatures who grow up into awesome big creatures, and they can make your life better in so many ways.

If you view them from the investment angle, they're not worth it. But if you view life from the investment angle, nothing is worth it. Going out is wasteful, taking vacations is wasteful, clothing, nice homes, nice cars, friendships, etc... all wasteful.

Peter P says

If you want followers, starting a religion is more practical

elliemae says

If you view them from the investment angle, they're not worth it

Well it depends on the country. Here is Ziona , leader of a Christian sect in India who has 47 wives and over 100 kids-who all work and bring in income. So really depends on the local culture.

Here is the cult leader's quote, "To expand my sect, I don't mind even going to America to marry a woman," he said

http://www.e-pao.net/GP.asp?src=12..201106.nov06

elliemae says

They're awesome little creatures who grow up into awesome big creatures, and they can make your life better in so many ways.

True. I just afraid they may be little brats who grow up into monsters. Perhaps I should have more faith in people.

elliemae says

They also keep you from going out and spending all of your money at a bar, restaurant, mall, etc. (Admittedly, they do cost a bit in the toy department).

Toys are fine. Because my eyes still glow in front of a toy store.

Okay please explain this to me:

The wealthier and the educated classes in America have few to no children and the poorer and less educated classes in America lots of children (usually the parents don't even bother to marry).
Doesn't make any sense to me but, I think the wealthy and the educated just are afraid of breeding.

Peter P says

Raw says

Get help!

From you? Would you help me pay?

Sorry, I have kids to feed. I invest in them to ensure their survival so that that can pass on my genes. If you really think kids are not worth investing in, your traits are will soon be extinct.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/06/28/having-kids-makes-you-happy.html

Peter P says

I just afraid they may be little brats who grow up into monsters. Perhaps I should have more faith in people.

Some do grow into monsters, but I'd venture to guess that most grow into productive members of society. I wouldn't trade mine in for anything.

Everyone posting here was someone's bad investment.

You get more deductions if you actually pay taxes... if not more money on your ebt card....

propitup1 says

Doesn't make any sense to me but, I think the wealthy and the educated just are afraid of breeding.

There are many ways to pass on your trait (extension of your will-to-power). The wealthy and the educated have more options.

If you write a book, you have a legacy. If you have followers, you have a legacy.

Raw says

Sorry, I have kids to feed. I invest in them to ensure their survival so that that can pass on my genes. If you really think kids are not worth investing in, your traits are will soon be extinct.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/06/28/having-kids-makes-you-happy.html

As I said, all of us are 99.9% identical genetically.

Wouldn't you rather have a museum to your name?

How is my trait more special than yours? Why would I care if my traits are extinct?

Peter P says

As I said, all of us are 99.9% identical genetically.

Wouldn't you rather have a museum to your name?

That 0.1% sure does make a difference.

swebb says

That 0.1% sure does make a difference.

Tell that to the OWS folks.

But seriously, my essence is more than my genetics.

swebb says

That 0.1% sure does make a difference.

Yeah, I think so. No chicks seem to be overly impressed that I am 99.9% the same as [pick any famous person you like].

justme says

No chicks seem to be overly impressed that I am 99.9% the same as [pick any famous person you like].

Because you are also 99.9% the same as [pick any serial killer you don't like].

Peter P says

Because you are also 99.9% the same as [pick any serial killer you don't like].

But so is [pick any famous person you like]. It's a double standard, I tell ya!

Peter P says

Because you are also 99.9% the same as [pick any serial killer you don't like].

But...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noncoding_DNA

"fully 98% of the human genome is noncoding DNA"

Children fill you with overweening, swelling narcissistic pride in yourself, as if you have accomplished something, even if you only did what every other mindless rutting animal on earth does. They make you walk around in a sentimental, self centered daze, as everything is justified now because you are a parent, you can become hysterical, exact revenge, attack other people because they don't worship the spawn of your loins etc. etc. They make you highly irrational in a very pleasing, narcotic way, nature's little incentive to keep the rug rats alive.

They can't escape until they are older, automatic captive audience when everybody else has told you to go to hell. If the kids are smart, they will act like they love you.

They give you something to obsess over endlessly so you never get bored, and something to control.

However, it doesn't matter how many kids you have or support, after about five generations out, if your kiddies have kiddies etc. there will be only about 3 percent of you left in any particular individual. You have been essentially erased as an individual by the great waring blender called genetics, sorry, no more you.
What's left of you in genetic bits and pieces may wind up in some weird ethnically mixed backwater of gene pooling.

Guess what, nature fooled you again to do something for it making you think you are doing something for you!

Ceffer says

Guess what, nature fooled you again to do something for it making you think you are doing something for you!

Not. Getting. Fooled.

I rather be fooled by randomness.

Not everything has to be an 'investment' to make it worthwhile.

In the long term we are all dead and it matters not whether you have offspring or not, and if so, whether they are good or evil, rich or poor. Do whatever you have to do. Life ain't a fsckin investment.

government needs your kids' contribution to Social Security

"As Countries Develop, Fertility Rates Usually Drop
In the United States, for instance, the average fertility rate was 3.67 children per woman between the years of 1875 and 1925, dropping to a little above 2 children per woman in the second half of the 20th century. And that’s a good place to be, because 2.1 is the fertility rate sweet spot: It’s the replacement rate, ensuring that a country’s population doesn’t decline over time. (Because two parents each replace themselves, and then some. Get it?)"

Oxygen says

government needs your kids' contribution to Social Security

Nope.

They just need to dump the premiums into appreciating or interest bearing assets like treasury securities.

In 2005 I got curious and ran my numbers. Assuming the retirement age did not increase, FICA tax rates didn't go up, and the wage cap did not increase faster than inflation I needed to outlast my statistically expected lifespan by five years to get a 0% inflation adjusted return on my contributions.

Investing my contributions in a portfolio returning 3% after inflation would quadruple my benefit for the same 15 years (or support 4X the people), double my benefit until I died at 100, or allow me to draw 30% more forever with the principle remaining for my heirs (or to support future retirees).

The current Ponzi scheme could also be preserved at lower cost by allowing young working adults to immigrate (no earned income credit for parents, no public schooling, no interval between government benefit eligibility and joining the work force).

Peter P says

Kids cost a fortune ... they make you less adaptable.. increase your risk exposure ... are harmful to the environment

If you care about genetics, we are all 99.9% identical anyway... If you want followers, starting a religion is more practical...If you want a small and cute companion, get a pet....If you want to keep your surname alive, write a fucking novel. (Or better yet, start an immortal corporation.)

Welcome to the Bay Area, Cool and Hip. Welcome to the Values of the Hipsters.