patrick.net

Children saved me money from the pure entertainment value. They make you laugh your ass off with their antics.

They also keep you from going out and spending all of your money at a bar, restaurant, mall, etc. (Admittedly, they do cost a bit in the toy department).

Having children is no guarantee that you'll have someone to care for you in your old age. And there is no guarantee that they will be "good" or "productive. They might not live up to your expectations...

They're awesome little creatures who grow up into awesome big creatures, and they can make your life better in so many ways.

If you view them from the investment angle, they're not worth it. But if you view life from the investment angle, nothing is worth it. Going out is wasteful, taking vacations is wasteful, clothing, nice homes, nice cars, friendships, etc... all wasteful.

Peter P says

If you want followers, starting a religion is more practical

elliemae says

If you view them from the investment angle, they're not worth it

Well it depends on the country. Here is Ziona , leader of a Christian sect in India who has 47 wives and over 100 kids-who all work and bring in income. So really depends on the local culture.

Here is the cult leader's quote, "To expand my sect, I don't mind even going to America to marry a woman," he said

http://www.e-pao.net/GP.asp?src=12..201106.nov06

elliemae says

They're awesome little creatures who grow up into awesome big creatures, and they can make your life better in so many ways.

True. I just afraid they may be little brats who grow up into monsters. Perhaps I should have more faith in people.

elliemae says

They also keep you from going out and spending all of your money at a bar, restaurant, mall, etc. (Admittedly, they do cost a bit in the toy department).

Toys are fine. Because my eyes still glow in front of a toy store.

Okay please explain this to me:

The wealthier and the educated classes in America have few to no children and the poorer and less educated classes in America lots of children (usually the parents don't even bother to marry).
Doesn't make any sense to me but, I think the wealthy and the educated just are afraid of breeding.

Peter P says

Raw says

Get help!

From you? Would you help me pay?

Sorry, I have kids to feed. I invest in them to ensure their survival so that that can pass on my genes. If you really think kids are not worth investing in, your traits are will soon be extinct.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/06/28/having-kids-makes-you-happy.html

Peter P says

I just afraid they may be little brats who grow up into monsters. Perhaps I should have more faith in people.

Some do grow into monsters, but I'd venture to guess that most grow into productive members of society. I wouldn't trade mine in for anything.

Everyone posting here was someone's bad investment.

You get more deductions if you actually pay taxes... if not more money on your ebt card....

propitup1 says

Doesn't make any sense to me but, I think the wealthy and the educated just are afraid of breeding.

There are many ways to pass on your trait (extension of your will-to-power). The wealthy and the educated have more options.

If you write a book, you have a legacy. If you have followers, you have a legacy.

Raw says

Sorry, I have kids to feed. I invest in them to ensure their survival so that that can pass on my genes. If you really think kids are not worth investing in, your traits are will soon be extinct.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/06/28/having-kids-makes-you-happy.html

As I said, all of us are 99.9% identical genetically.

Wouldn't you rather have a museum to your name?

How is my trait more special than yours? Why would I care if my traits are extinct?

Peter P says

As I said, all of us are 99.9% identical genetically.

Wouldn't you rather have a museum to your name?

That 0.1% sure does make a difference.

swebb says

That 0.1% sure does make a difference.

Tell that to the OWS folks.

But seriously, my essence is more than my genetics.

swebb says

That 0.1% sure does make a difference.

Yeah, I think so. No chicks seem to be overly impressed that I am 99.9% the same as [pick any famous person you like].

justme says

No chicks seem to be overly impressed that I am 99.9% the same as [pick any famous person you like].

Because you are also 99.9% the same as [pick any serial killer you don't like].

Peter P says

Because you are also 99.9% the same as [pick any serial killer you don't like].

But so is [pick any famous person you like]. It's a double standard, I tell ya!

Peter P says

Because you are also 99.9% the same as [pick any serial killer you don't like].

But...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noncoding_DNA

"fully 98% of the human genome is noncoding DNA"

Children fill you with overweening, swelling narcissistic pride in yourself, as if you have accomplished something, even if you only did what every other mindless rutting animal on earth does. They make you walk around in a sentimental, self centered daze, as everything is justified now because you are a parent, you can become hysterical, exact revenge, attack other people because they don't worship the spawn of your loins etc. etc. They make you highly irrational in a very pleasing, narcotic way, nature's little incentive to keep the rug rats alive.

They can't escape until they are older, automatic captive audience when everybody else has told you to go to hell. If the kids are smart, they will act like they love you.

They give you something to obsess over endlessly so you never get bored, and something to control.

However, it doesn't matter how many kids you have or support, after about five generations out, if your kiddies have kiddies etc. there will be only about 3 percent of you left in any particular individual. You have been essentially erased as an individual by the great waring blender called genetics, sorry, no more you.
What's left of you in genetic bits and pieces may wind up in some weird ethnically mixed backwater of gene pooling.

Guess what, nature fooled you again to do something for it making you think you are doing something for you!

Ceffer says

Guess what, nature fooled you again to do something for it making you think you are doing something for you!

Not. Getting. Fooled.

I rather be fooled by randomness.

Not everything has to be an 'investment' to make it worthwhile.

In the long term we are all dead and it matters not whether you have offspring or not, and if so, whether they are good or evil, rich or poor. Do whatever you have to do. Life ain't a fsckin investment.

government needs your kids' contribution to Social Security

"As Countries Develop, Fertility Rates Usually Drop
In the United States, for instance, the average fertility rate was 3.67 children per woman between the years of 1875 and 1925, dropping to a little above 2 children per woman in the second half of the 20th century. And that’s a good place to be, because 2.1 is the fertility rate sweet spot: It’s the replacement rate, ensuring that a country’s population doesn’t decline over time. (Because two parents each replace themselves, and then some. Get it?)"

Oxygen says

government needs your kids' contribution to Social Security

Nope.

They just need to dump the premiums into appreciating or interest bearing assets like treasury securities.

In 2005 I got curious and ran my numbers. Assuming the retirement age did not increase, FICA tax rates didn't go up, and the wage cap did not increase faster than inflation I needed to outlast my statistically expected lifespan by five years to get a 0% inflation adjusted return on my contributions.

Investing my contributions in a portfolio returning 3% after inflation would quadruple my benefit for the same 15 years (or support 4X the people), double my benefit until I died at 100, or allow me to draw 30% more forever with the principle remaining for my heirs (or to support future retirees).

The current Ponzi scheme could also be preserved at lower cost by allowing young working adults to immigrate (no earned income credit for parents, no public schooling, no interval between government benefit eligibility and joining the work force).

Peter P says

Kids cost a fortune ... they make you less adaptable.. increase your risk exposure ... are harmful to the environment

If you care about genetics, we are all 99.9% identical anyway... If you want followers, starting a religion is more practical...If you want a small and cute companion, get a pet....If you want to keep your surname alive, write a fucking novel. (Or better yet, start an immortal corporation.)

Welcome to the Bay Area, Cool and Hip. Welcome to the Values of the Hipsters.

The only person who should have kids is me because my kid is way better than everyone else's.
Other peoples kids are annoying.

Moderate Infidel says

The only person who should have kids is me because my kid is way better than everyone else's.

I agree. If only you have kids, the world will be less overcrowded.

Peter P says

Moderate Infidel says

The only person who should have kids is me because my kid is way better than everyone else's.

I agree. If only you have kids, the world will be less overcrowded.

I'm only having one though, so goodbye human race.

If overcrowding is the issue then we should get rid of cars as they outnumber humans and take up more space and resources. Lot's of dogs and cats gotta go too. Except mine of course.

Moderate Infidel says

If overcrowding is the issue then we should get rid of cars as they outnumber humans and take up more space and resources. Lot's of dogs and cats gotta go too. Except mine of course.

No but we should make all roads toll-roads.

errc says

Fighting to live another day really ain't worth the costs, so might as well eat a bullet for desert

I fully understand that every decision is an economics decision. The flaw in your analysis, is using someone elses metrics. You shouldn't allow USDs to control every aspect of your life,,,you'll likely end up disappointed

You were someones child at one time, do you regret being born? Seriously, what kind of self depreciating kinky shit are you in to

I agree that it should not be the dominating factor, but it ties in with lifestyle and how you raise your kids. If you are happy without all the consumerism chances are you kids will be to, unless they get baited too much and switch to the dark side ;) Making money just to have more money is kinda pointless to me, but if you can translate that into more free time. early semi-retirement and a happier you through less consumption then it is worth it.

Moderate Infidel says

The only person who should have kids is me because my kid is way better than everyone else's. Other peoples kids are annoying.

If overcrowding is the issue then we should get rid of cars as they outnumber humans and take up more space and resources. Lot's of dogs and cats gotta go too. Except mine of course.

I love how you think!

Children are a giant sinkhole of time and money.

errc says

I wonder how the amish would view your assertion

Their children sure seem to provide a return,,,,

You know, back in time when you could use your kids as cheap farm labor or sell them into slavery, kids were a real asset.

Peter P says

Is there even any tangible upside in having children?

No.

Moderate Infidel says

If overcrowding is the issue then we should get rid of cars as they outnumber humans and take up more space and resources. Lot's of dogs and cats gotta go too. Except mine of course.

Or make birth control mandatory.

Oxygen says

government needs your kids' contribution to Social Security

Or raise the age at which benefits are distributed.

Peter P says

If you care about genetics, we are all 99.9% identical anyway.

Passing on my genetic code does nothing to help me. Sure, it helps my species, but I don't get anything out of it.

Peter P says

Kids cost a fortune to raise.

When Apockolypsefuck's cannibal anarchy comes, kids may be a good investment for food.

Procreating and multiplying is what living organisms do.
Accept your function.

"Kids are horrible investments"

Anyone that would make such a statement, are no doubt the same sort that would put a dollar in a change machine and then say...
"There's just no beating the house with this machine..." after 4 quarters fall out the bottom.

Peter P says

Kids are horrible investments

It's time to short my shorties.

Dan8267 says

Peter P says

If you care about genetics, we are all 99.9% identical anyway.

Passing on my genetic code does nothing to help me. Sure, it helps my species, but I don't get anything out of it.

You guys have a malfunctioning genetic code. There is only one way natural selection deals with a malfunction......recycle bin.

Raw says

You guys have a malfunctioning genetic code. There is only one way natural selection deals with a malfunction......recycle bin.

Just remember, countless species have been driven to extinction due to overpopulation and resource depletion. Natural selection is a very fickle tool.