patrick.net

mell says

I know nothing about zzyzzx and neither do you. If you want to jump to conclusions based on a couple of posts on a web forum, that's your right, but others may disagree.

I know that he put up a racist thread title, and that he deleted my post when I called him on it. I'm not claiming to know anything else about him. I don't really care; in this instance I only care about hate speech on a public forum. I haven't "jumped to a conclusion"; it is a simple fact that pointing out a thief's race when it has nothing to do with the story, is racist. He hasn't provided any other explanation, and in fact he even wrote in the other thread: "I'm making up shit to mess with people."

Peter P says

Patrick, there may be a small bug. I have trouble deleting my own comment in a thread started by a non-premium member.

Thanks for telling me! OK, it's at the top of my bug list.

121212 says

The original headline he made read : "Obama Supporter steals iPad Mini after FedEx delivered it"

I don't find that offensive. He should have left it that way.

121212 says

I have complained and complained, there is no monitoring and you will never get it. Patrick does not care.

Homeboy says

But it does show you where Patrick's sentiments lie with regard to race.

zzyzzx's thread title WAS overtly racist, but what's more discouraging, I think, is that quite a few forum members saw fit to joke around about it, and not in a disapproving way, but in a "we're going along with you" way.

What's shocking is that there only seem to be a couple of people who even care.

121212 says

the amount of bigoted comments and hateful images expressed on this forum is mind blowing!

121212 says

I complained to Patrick he see;s nothing wrong with this image. I find it offensive.

121212 says

He is perhaps one of these worst bigoted, hateful, woman hating racist i I've seen on this forums. It's not funny!

If you are so offended, why don't you "ignore" those people you find offensive?

What you don't seem to understand is that, the more you protest, the more play the original comments get. You are propagating the very messages that you find to be offensive.

So, let me explain this again:

A person starts a thread. Awesome. But as soon as another person posts to that thread, it changes. It may change for the better and continue along the lines of the original post. But it might just morph into something else. You have no control over the direction the thread takes, even if you make repeated attempts to redirect subsequent posters.

12x3, Homeboy, go ahead and dislike me all you want. I don't give a shit. But you could easily lower your blood pressure and make your viewing experience better by simply ignoring those people you don't like.

mell says

It's the ultimate club to squash any discussion/enemy.

Good point, Mell. There are two people in their club now. Perhaps they should start their own forum. Just a suggestion.

Patrick is a reasonable person. Just like any other reasonable person, he sees the futility in political correctness for the sake of being politically correct.

I do not agree with many comments. Yet I find some of them very funny. Does this make me a bad person? I don't care. I get a good laugh.

Moderate Infidel says

If there's one thing I can't stand it's people who are intolerant of other cultures and the Dutch.

Tolerance is insufficient. People need to start appreciating differences.

Peter P says

I do not agree with many comments. Yet I find some of them very funny. Does this make me a bad person? I don't care. I get a good laugh.

According to homeboy and 12x3, it makes you subhuman although to the rest of us it means that you are human, with a great sense of humor. Moderate Infidel says

If there's one thing I can't stand it's people who are intolerant of other cultures and the Dutch.

I can accept other cultures. However, I draw the line at windmills and funky wooden shoes..

elliemae says

However, I draw the line at windmills and funky wooden shoes..

Really?

I count sense of humor as one of the most important qualities in a person.

Peter P says

elliemae says

However, I draw the line at windmills and funky wooden shoes..

Really?

Nah. I was going for the joke. Hmmm, maybe it's the tulips... which reminds me...

Q: What's better than Four Roses on a piano?
A: Tulips on an organ.

Thanks! I'll be here all week! Don't forget to tip your waitress. And try the veal!

G'nite everybody!

Explanation about a bad comedian explains

This is a cliche from nightclub comedians. It probably goes back to the 1950's or even earlier. Other comedians later on would then mock this typical nightclub comic banter either to make fun of themselves, or to make fun of an older type of stand-up comedy which was considered "square" and "old fashioned," typical of a nightclub performer in Las Vegas or Miami Beach in the 1950's or 1960's, e.g. Jack Carter, Shecky Greene, Don Rickles, or comics of that generation.

The "brick wall" comedy clubs of the 1970's and 1980's many times did not serve food. The earlier Las Vegas style venues featuring comedians were more likely to serve formal entrees and dinners in a nightclub setting, as well cocktails, leading the comics to urge the audience to "try the veal" or comments similar to that. Most comedy clubs these days do serve drinks, making the exhortation to "tip your waitress" still relevant.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_said_Im_here_all_night_folks_try_the_veal_and_tip_the_waitress

Tough crowd tonight! (elliemae taps the microphone) Is this thing on? Hey - is this an audience or an oil painting?...

I love veal.

elliemae says

If you are so offended, why don't you "ignore" those people you find offensive?

I don't think hate speech should be ignored. I think it should be called out when it happens. What would be the point of participating in a public forum if I just ignored things that I disagreed with - that I think are wrong?

What I'm wondering is why you would defend racism? If you don't like this thread, why don't you ignore me? Seems like you've gone out of your way to be here, telling me I shouldn't decry racism. Why?

elliemae says

A person starts a thread. Awesome. But as soon as another person posts to that thread, it changes. It may change for the better and continue along the lines of the original post. But it might just morph into something else. You have no control over the direction the thread takes, even if you make repeated attempts to redirect subsequent posters.

I don't think you read anything that I wrote. Or if you did, you weren't paying attention.

elliemae says

12x3, Homeboy, go ahead and dislike me all you want. I don't give a shit.

For someone who allegedly doesn't give a shit, you sure seem to have your panties in a wad about this.

Call it Crazy says

To sit here and complain on an anonymous forum is insane!

Really? It's insane to complain about things on a forum? Exaggerate much?

Rants are fun to read.

Peter P says

Patrick is a reasonable person. Just like any other reasonable person, he sees the futility in political correctness for the sake of being politically correct.

But that's nonsense. Writing a fake headline that says, "Black man steals iPod" is out-and-out racism. Why are you trying to compare that to trivial examples of "political correctness"? This is by no means "for the sake of being politically correct"; this is to call someone out for being blatantly racist. Do you really not understand the difference? Do you really think racism is a trivial matter?

I'm curious - would ANYTHING cross a line for you? If I changed my avatar to a hooded KKK member and wrote, "The only good nigger is a dead nigger", would you just consider that to be trivially "non-PC"?

There are non-PC things written here every day. I choose not to comment on 99% of them. Only twice have I seen things that I thought crossed a line. One was Captain Shuddup making a facetious political comment on the Sandy Hook shooting, the very day it happened. And the other was this thread title zzyzzyx wrote.

He certainly has the right to say whatever he wants, but I also have the right to say that he's a racist asshole troll. And you aren't much better.

I was talking about Patrick. You cannot expect him to censor speech. If he had done that, he would be being politically correct for the sake of political correctness.

I am not necessarily defending zzyzzx's comment.

Joking about something does not implies hatred. I joke about myself all the time. Does that make me a self-hater?

Homeboy says

I'm curious - would ANYTHING cross a line for you?

To me, crossing the line means making illegal or non-protected speech. I have a rather high tolerance for speech. But inciting violence or crime will definitely be crossing the line.

Homeboy says

Peter P says

Patrick is a reasonable person. Just like any other reasonable person, he sees the futility in political correctness for the sake of being politically correct.

But that's nonsense. Writing a fake headline that says, "Black man steals iPod" is out-and-out racism

Sure, it is racist. But he has the right to be racist, IMHO.

Here are some ways to deal with it which don't require anyone to tell him what he can or cannot say:

* Use the "ignore" link (now on the author page for each user; just click on their name or icon)
* Start your own thread that you can moderate.
* Become a Premium user so he cannot delete your comments. Only $5/month, first month free! Easily instantly cancelled.

Peter P says

To me, crossing the line means making illegal or non-protected speech. I have a rather high tolerance for speech. But inciting violence or crime will definitely be crossing the line.

Yes, that's about it for me too. I feel I'd have to delete these cases because of the legal ramifications:

* inciting violence
* actual child porn (not jokes in bad taste about child porn)
* flagrant copyright violations (excerpting for discussion is OK, but whole article copying is not)

I don't think you widen your horizon and perspective by only talking to people that you approve of.

Call it Crazy says

If they can't handle the heat, they need to stay away from their keyboard!!

Or they can start a thread on puppies.

Sure, it is racist. But he has the right to be racist, IMHO.

And you give racists protection to post racism, no one else.

Homeboy says

I don't think you read anything that I wrote. Or if you did, you weren't paying attention.

I did read it. I paid as much attention as I believed your comments were worth.

Homeboy says

Seems like you've gone out of your way to be here, telling me I shouldn't decry racism.

I didn't say that you shouldn't decry racism. You stated your opinion, both in the title and in posts, so you've made your point. You succeeded in getting zzyzzx to change his headline, yet you won't give it up. If your goal is to change zzyzzx into a warm, fuzzy tolerant person, you're beating a dead horse here.

Both you and 12x3 have voiced your opinion that Patrick supports racists. If you truly believe that, why are you still here?

Homeboy says

For someone who allegedly doesn't give a shit, you sure seem to have your panties in a wad about this.

You're trying to bait me into a fight. This is the very definition of a troll. Yet you accuse others of trollish behavior:

Homeboy says

Now I can't figure out if you guys are trolls or if you're just stupid.

If we're talking about you - I vote the latter.

121212 says

Sure, it is racist. But he has the right to be racist, IMHO.

And you give racists protection to post racism, no one else.

Do you think you're going to change Patrick's stance on people who can post? He allows you to post, even though your comments are offensive at times. Should he ban you?

Homeboy, your not beating a dead horse, you need to continue to fight racism, hatred, bigotry and ignoramuses.

You can't just fight racism.

People must realize that differences are what make the universe interesting. They need to appreciate other cultures from the inside.

Hatred is a emotional reaction to fear and/or misunderstanding. The problem is that people do not take the time to understand others.

Homeboy says

121212 says

The original headline he made read : "Obama Supporter steals iPad Mini after FedEx delivered it"

I don't find that offensive. He should have left it that way.

The original article headline said a UPS delivery worker stole a FedEx package, which is the real story here; the headline also mentioned iPad, because any mention of Apple products gets a lot of clicks. The photo showed the UPS worker was black; that wasn't left out by "liberal media," but it also didn't belong in a headline, because it isn't relevant. The article does not mention whether he supported Obama, or ever worked as a realtor, so those assertions are baseless unless somebody has information beyond the article. Personally, I think it would be worse to assume the guy was an Obama supporter based solely on stereotyping, regardless of how people feel about President Obama.

The original headline specified the UPS delivery worker was a delivery man, i.e. not a woman, yet nobody seems to call that sexist. zzyzzx's headline said he was black, yet some call that racist. I can understand how some might genuinely feel that way, because presumably there must be some motive for elevating an irrelevant detail to the level of a headline, but I also can't help noticing the discrepant reactions.

elliemae is one of the nicest people on PatNet, so baiting her into a fight is a sign of trollishness.

curious2 says

elliemae is one of the nicest people on PatNet,

And that is almost an understatement. :-)

Peter P says

curious2 says

elliemae is one of the nicest people on PatNet,

And that is almost an understatement. :-)

Eh! No way, she's awful, she's a female version of a few assholes on this forum.

Peter P says

To me, crossing the line means making illegal or non-protected speech. I have a rather high tolerance for speech. But inciting violence or crime will definitely be crossing the line.

Nah, you're reading in something I didn't write. I meant crossing the line of being offensive to a reasonable person, not crossing the line where it should be censored.

Maybe a good rule of thumb would be, if you are going to make some kind of comment about black people, is it something you would say in a social situation with a black person standing next to you.

Homeboy says

I meant crossing the line of being offensive to a reasonable person, not crossing the line where it should be censored.

I guess I am just hard to offend.

But the entire content of this site can be considered offensive to many "reasonable" homeowners/investors/agents.

Peter P says

But the entire content of this site can be considered offensive to many "reasonable" homeowners/investors/agents.

Yes it is offensive.

Peter P says

But the entire content of this site can be considered offensive to many "reasonable" homeowners/investors/agents.

I can't tell if you are really this obtuse, or if you're just trying to fuck with me. If you see no difference between racial stereotyping and disagreeing about the state of the housing market, then you are beyond being educated. If you DO understand the difference, and are pretending not to, then you are just a troll.

Homeboy says

If you see no difference between racial stereotyping and disagreeing about the state of the housing market, then you are beyond being educated.

You haven't seen the face of those people when I informed them of the possible housing bubble in 2005.

You could have called them any names and you would not have made them any madder.

It is about things being offensive. Not about any possible moral values attached to those statements.

curious2 says

The article does not mention whether he supported Obama, or ever worked as a realtor, so those assertions are baseless unless somebody has information beyond the article. Personally, I think it would be worse to assume the guy was an Obama supporter based solely on stereotyping, regardless of how people feel about President Obama.

That is possibly the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.

Is there anything that these people don't make apologies for?

Peter P says

You haven't seen the face of those people when I informed them of the possible housing bubble in 2005.

You could have called them any names and you would not have made them any madder.

It is about things being offensive. Not about any possible moral values attached to those statements.

It is reasonable to disagree about the direction of the housing market. It is NOT reasonable to assume all black people are thieves. I don't think it's humanly possible to be as obtuse as you are pretending to be. Therefore you are a troll.

Homeboy says

It is reasonable to disagree about the direction of the housing market. It is NOT reasonable to assume all black people are thieves.

Conservatives don't see race, only credit scores and zip codes

That way they can continue to deny racism has been a major issues over the past 4 years.