patrick.net

foxmannumber1 says

From what I recall, the Europeans conquered the world and created modern civilization, which is the greatest achievement of mankind.

Your memory is rather distorted by Faux News. For example, you appear to have overlooked the fact that America was founded to break away from European civilization, which was at that time dominated by the divine right of kings. Being only too familiar with European traditions such as the Thirty Years War, the Reformation, the Inquisition, burning witches at the stake (which also happened here during the colonial era), and the Crusades, the founders decided to build a new republic with no king and no official religion. The First Amendment, #1 of 10 in the Bill of Rights, specifically prohibits Congress from making any law respecting an establishment of religion, and Article VI prohibits any religious test of office. (Compare that to "the 10 commandments," of which #1 is establishment of religion.) The OP seems to think Republicans can fool Latinos into voting the way the Pope says, but Latin American countries don't all vote that way, and there is no particular reason to believe Latinos would vote that way here.

As for intelligence, it is white Americans who seem most likely to vote against their own interest, for example shifting taxes onto themselves and their children in order to increase the advantage of the top 1%. The Republican taliban campaign on deficit spending, war all over the world, and religious fanaticism hanging on for the rapture. Who would be stupid enough to vote for that?

Any rational person knows all religions are false. They are simply tools for the powers that be to control the average person.

A lot of latino's are religious.

foxmannumber1 says

Intelligence is mostly genetic. You cannot force a genetically unintelligent
person to simply read a book to fix him.

So you admit , you can't fix yourself.

foxmannumber1 says

Kevin says

You seem obsessed with race for reasons I can't fathom

Race is the biggest divider and problem in the US today. If the country became 90%+ white, all the social problems we have now would simply go away or be severely reduced.

Explain Italy, the UK, Russia, Iceland, Ireland, Germany, or...pretty much all of Europe, which has most of the social problems of the US, and just swaps some for others.

The biggest problem in the US today is the economy, plain and simple, and anyone worried about any other social issue is a moron.

robertoaribas says

foxmannumber1 says

robertoaribas says

I guess the world needs stupid racists too

Nothing stupid about whites protecting themselves from groups(blacks and latinos) who are statistically proven to commit more crime per capita than any other groups in the US.

nothing like exposing what a racist you are too...

No, racist he may well be, but he's 100% right on that one.
To deny the problems of the black and Latino communities with gangs, crime, and violence to a completely disproportionate level is to stick your hands over your ears and yell "racist racist racist" at anyone who tells the truth.

It's not a race issue. It's a CULTURAL issue. It's not our fault that the ethnicity of the black and Latino cultures (as well as Chinese, Philippino, Croatian, take your fucking pick) are so freakishly homogenous.
We Americans are ethnically diverse in comparison. The racists are most likely to be from ethnically homogenous cultures.

If you want your culture to be more respected, try forming more nuclear families rather than jailbird multi-dad single mom families. It's not helpful when 75% of black kids grow up in single parent homes. Try more education and less drugs. Just fucking TRY!
And quit blaming your problems on racism. I count a number of Latinos as good friends. But they aren't the problem. I can't see myself having anything to do with a MS13 gang member or any other "chollo."

On the original subject: I agree with the posters who say that the GOP alienates Latinos with their "get the fuck out" message they keep preaching. It wasn't right or kind, and even Latino citizens who don't want illegal immigration can't agree with the tone being used.

Quigley says

It's not a race issue. It's a CULTURAL issue. It's not our fault that the
ethnicity of the black and Latino cultures (as well as Chinese, Philippino,
Croatian, take your fucking pick) are so freakishly homogenous

Latino, Philipines are all ethnically homogenous?? Why, why don't your kind just read before opening your mouth? How many Latin countries have you even travelled to or ever been to the Phillipines?? Just read for crying out loud and talk about facts and nobody is going to yell racist-I am sure you would love living next door to jeffrey Dahmer.

Now if you are talking about high crime -yes certain areas are going to be high crime. But, that would generally track by poverty-I wouldn't move to a high crime black/latino area any more than I would move to a high crime white area.

Now if you are looking at crime rate, blacks or latinos do tend to have higher rates of crimes and even welfare. But the repubs start talking of them as though they are another species or animals. Then there is no reasonable converstaion after that.

I think this is the problem with the right. Their position is so absurd and nuts, that any reasonable discussion does not flourish. If one wanted to talk about the different crime rates by race-perfectly reasonable to wonder why there is a difference, but to start off with such and such race is xyz as foxman does-well then there is no discussion at all-it just forces anyone moderate on the issue to align with the less batsh*t crazy side.

I'm sorry, but ethnically homogenous cultures are the rule, not the exception. You can make picky distinctions between Indian tribes and features, even to point out white Castilian Latinos, but even these groups have varying cultures within themselves. Culture doesn't HAVE to be ethnic! That's what I'm ducking trying to say here! The biggest racist bastard I know is Croatian and probably the only person of any race I've actually hated. That fact that he's white is so far down the line of relevance I can hardly care. Don't get me started on Japan either. The sheer racial hell my Chamorro buddy went through trying to marry his Japanese American girlfriend was absolutely unspeakable.
Anyone who still thinks that white Americans have a monopoly on racism is an ignorant idiot.

That said, this foxnewsman is a racist and I don't like his POV.

"Racism" doesn't mean that you "hate" people of certain races.

Kevin says

"Racism" doesn't mean that you "hate" people of certain races.

This is true. Racism is a word created by liberals to end an argument that they would lose if they were forced to used facts to back up their position.

The only label worse than "racist" in the modern USA is "pedophile". Convicted murderers and rapists are excused more often and less socially ostracized than "racists".

Think of human races as breeds such as with cats and dogs. Purebred animals exhibit consistent traits without fail. A mutt will have a variety from other breeds, desirable or not. It's not "racist" to acknowledge this fact with cats or dogs.

Applying this fact to humans, blacks consistently have less intelligence than whites. Humans are not built any differently when compared to any other animal on planet earth.

foxmannumber1 says

Think of human races as breeds such as with cats and dogs. Purebred animals exhibit consistent traits without fail. A mutt will have a variety from other breeds, desirable or not. It's not "racist" to acknowledge this fact with cats or dogs.

Applying this fact to humans, blacks consistently have less intelligence than whites. Humans are not built any differently when compared to any other animal on planet earth.

Bad analogy, "purebred" dogs are a mix of many species bred specifically for certain traits and not necessarily for "intelligence". Please stop using the word "fact" because you don't know any "facts".

Moderate Infidel says

bred specifically for certain traits and not necessarily for "intelligence".

Intelligence is genetic, just like skin color or hair color. It was simply 1 example of many genetic traits.

foxmannumber1 says

Kevin says

"Racism" doesn't mean that you "hate" people of certain races.

This is true. Racism is a word created by liberals to end an argument that they would lose if they were forced to used facts to back up their position.

The only label worse than "racist" in the modern USA is "pedophile". Convicted murderers and rapists are excused more often and less socially ostracized than "racists".

Racism is a real word. It isn't hatred, just stupidity.

Racists should be ostracized. They're terrible human beings with no place in modern society.

foxmannumber1 says

Moderate Infidel says

bred specifically for certain traits and not necessarily for "intelligence".

Intelligence is genetic, just like skin color or hair color. It was simply 1 example of many genetic traits.

Genetics is only one factor in intelligence, actually. Its not like skin or hair color at all. There have been literally thousands of studies on this subject. While research is inconclusive on genetics, its completely in agreement on environmental factors.

The genetic argument for the worth of a person is silly and self contradictory. Foxman is clearly advocating eugenics, a fad popularized in the early 20th century and taken to extreme by the nazis under Adolph.
Pure breed dogs are not as consistent as you believe. Pure breed is another word for inbreed. Lots and lots of incest will get you "pure breeds" but it will also get you recessive traits expressed that can cause retardation, deformation, and seriously wierd diseases. Animals can be culled when these recessives show up in the litter. Humans aren't culled, and the horrors are on display as a warning not to hump your sister.

There are no set rules governing intelligence expression. Genetics does play a role, but isn't the only factor. Environment and learning opportunities and nutrition play larger roles.
By race, Jews are the smartest, followed by Asians and middle easterners. Caucasians, who foxman is assuming are so great, are no better than average on the average intelligence scale.
So foxman, by your logic you should be for selectively breeding Jews as the new master race? How's that fit your plans?

I don't think he's advocating for eugenics, he's just scared of people who look different from him.

dublin hillz says

There is no other way to explain this collapse other than to explain it in a way that the latinos must have been so alienated by the recent statement of republican party via xenophobia and red meat pandering towards white conservatives by being blamed for immigration and taking american jobs

The rest of the words surrounding this statement of fact, is just filler.

foxmannumber1 says

It is a fact that the average white has an average IQ of 100.

It would be higher too, if you weren't bringing down the curve.

robertoaribas says

you are also a stupid asshole. I call you this because of what you write, and who you are, not based on your race. See the difference, or does it elude you?

Can I double-like a post?

As far as the OP goes, I think they misunderstand the power the Vatican has over the voting public. Rightwingers tend to agree with right-leaning pronouncements. They disregard the others. Same is true for the left within Catholicism.

Isn't this, aside from a logical fallacy, the same issue as was entertained prior to Kennedy? Catholics get their marching orders from il papa?

They don't, and they vote according to myriad factors. They aren't simpleton single-issue voters, which explains perhaps, why they are increasingly liberal. No room on the right for people with their own minds.

curious2 says

The OP seems to think Republicans can fool Latinos into voting the way the Pope
says, but Latin American countries don't all vote that way, and there is no
particular reason to believe Latinos would vote that way here.

What I am saying is that there's virtually no downside for the reps to run a minority candidate out there next time for either prez/vp or both. While this thread is about Latinos, African Americans voted 93% vs 7% for Barack. The only downside for reps may be that some whites may stay home on election day if they run a minority candidate but overall I would assume that they will gain more minorities than whites lost. I am sure that they will be doing some research regarding this. At this point, I think if they don't react to the drubbing that they took last election that they are even stupider than it already appears. Now about "fooling", people get fooled all the time. Look how some white cons believe that Barack is a second coming of joseph stalin! Also if reps nominate a minority and dems go with lets say hillary clinton, they can indirectly put pressure on her or another white candidate (assuming that dems run a white candidate) to basically point out to minority potential voters that the minority reps basically represent the establishment which is against minorities - definitely a volatile position to be in! Politics is basically like sports - you have to attack your opponents' potential weaknesses and isolate matchups.

CL says

Catholics get their marching orders from il papa

He is not giving any more orders. As of this morning, he "retired"....

dublin hillz says

He is not giving any more orders. As of this morning, he "retired"....

If they replace him with a liberal (unlikely) it will be the same thing again. The Mel Gibson wing of the Church will be revolting...(both kinds!!). It's a big tent, and even in theological terms the Pope is not really the final word on much of anything. Catholics are allowed (even encouraged) to follow their own consciences, using the Vatican for guidance.

I think he still has a few weeks in any case. Perhaps they can find a "Franco Youth" to replace him? :)

dublin hillz says

What I am saying is that there's virtually no downside for the reps to run a minority candidate out there next time for either prez/vp or both

I totally disagree. What is the old adage, "If you have a choice between {party} and {party}-lite, voters will choose the real deal every time.

The GOP has a large chunk of racist nativists contained inside. Look at how difficult this whole process is for them. If it were not so, they would simply adopt {gay, woman, minority} friendly policies. They are stuck between a rock and a hardplace.

Probably the best political choice they can make is to have an "also-ran" so as to "prove" they're not racist, and still keep the nativist vote.

dublin hillz says

What I am saying is that there's virtually no downside for the reps to run a minority candidate out there next time for either prez/vp or both.

Yes they have such a LARGE field of minority GOP candidates to pick from....

It's like trying to form a winning team with white NBA players. Good luck!

Vicente says

dublin hillz says

What I am saying is that there's virtually no downside for the reps to run a minority candidate out there next time for either prez/vp or both.

Yes they have such a LARGE field of minority GOP candidates to pick from....

It's like trying to form a winning team with white NBA players. Good luck!

Well if they were to pick rubio/jindal and match up vs hillarry/whoever it would make for a rather interesting matchup.

dublin hillz says

Well if they were to pick rubio/jindal and match up vs hillarry/whoever it would make for a rather interesting matchup.

That's why it won't happen. They're not Democrats for a reason, and they have their own repugnant constituencies. They can't win over the Democratic base without losing those factions.

If they did/do, they will get a tiny sliver of the demographic they want to win, and still lose the election. There will be a tea-party rebellion, and there will be effectively two conservative parties fighting for the crumbs.

There are no easy ways out for them, I think, objectively.

Mark D says

this is an IQ map for your references. it's the same site where Roberto got his penis size map I believe.

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=16776

That can't be! We're #1! USA! USA! USA!!

Reporter interviews 2008 Sarah Palin rally audience. "I'm afraid if [Obama] wins, the blacks will take over. He's not a Christian! This is a Christian nation!"

BTW, regarding IQ, studies in more than 100 countries have found that IQ is negatively correlated with religious and "conservative" beliefs, i.e. people with lower IQ are more likely to be religious and "conservative". People of higher IQ are more likely to be more liberal and atheist or agnostic. Atheists had a higher average IQ than agnostics, and both had a higher average than religious believers.

The Republican coalition consists of financing from polluting plutocrats (we got both kinds - oil and gas) plus votes from "conservative" Christian fundamentalists stupid enough to be fooled into voting against their own interests and for policies that are neither conservative nor Christian. The notion that they can rope in Latinos is based on (a) many Latinos being religious and (b) open immigration allowing the plutocrats to bust unions and suppress wages. As the Al Jazeera interview shows, it might seriously antagonize their white "conservative" Christian base, resulting in another loss.

robertoaribas says

If you really are curious, read say "the mismeasure of man" by stephan J gould.

I'm always curious, and there have been many critiques of IQ testing. One team observed Egyptians' low scores and wondered how the descendants of what had been the world's most advanced civilization (ancient Egypt) could score so badly. They found different associations: while western IQ tests grouped items according to type (e.g. knife, potato peeler, can opener), Egyptians grouped by function (potato, potato peeler, bowl). The Egyptians were capable of learning the western categories, just as they can learn a second language, but it wasn't their first language.

Suggestion for Republicans: try nominating Larry Craig for President, without changing the party platform, and see if you get the gay vote. I'm guessing no.

Mark D says

hence the fall of the great civilization.

Interesting. I tend to think religious fundamentalism had a bigger effect. Aside from Islam's golden age (800-1100 AD on the Christian calendar), that religion has tended towards violent fundamentalism including killing anyone who does not conform. Any population that emphasizes maximum reproduction (Osama's dad had more than 60 kids, and Osama had 20), then culls the smart ones, is likely to get less smart.

curious2 says

Suggestion for Republicans: try nominating Larry Craig for President, without changing the party platform, and see if you get the gay vote. I'm guessing no.

That's in a wide-stance nutshell. It underscores the latent racism, doesn't it?

Put a brown-skinned man up there! Now let's see them claim we're racists!

& I have friends who are black, just so you know.

And the black vote went for Obama because, ya know, he's one of "them".

And Obama is going to give them all free handouts, because, ya know, HE'S BLACK TOO!!

But it's not racism, right?

Now, let's think this through. How many racists are there, percentage-wise, on the right in America today?

Not all right wingers are racist, but if you're a racist, you're probably a right winger.

Mark D says

that theory

Which theory? Duke's "race mixing" would lead to convergence, not divergence. Regarding Rome, it rose as a republic with freedom of religion, people of different religions and of none; then it plateaued as an empire where the emperors were counted among the various gods; then it became Christian and fell. I haven't heard of any significant change in color composition to explain the trajectory, but the correlation with religion is very strong.

robertoaribas says

the romans felt they were better than everyone else....

Actually they revered the ancient Greeks, and respected ancient Egyptian achievements also. Compare that to the Taliban, who destroyed the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan because they couldn't tolerate any evidence of a prior civilization that was at least in some ways more advanced than their own.

Mark D says

let me ask you: between a chihuahua and a german shepherd, which is smarter? same species.

Never ask a liberal a question. It does no good.

The only way a vehement white liberal will change their mind on race relations is being a victim of black violence. Even being a victim of black crime may not do it and their hatred of their own white race becomes reinforced, often stating that white people forced the black person to commit the crime as if the black does not have any control over their actions.

Since those of us posting on a real estate discussion forum are safely tucked away in our non racially diverse neighborhoods created by white flight the possibility of contact with real blacks is improbable. White liberals have a "diversity for thee but not for me" mantra.

dublin hillz says

Barack won the latino vote 71% to 29%

its the 29% that scares the frack out of Dems/Liberals.

its the same 29% that have no need for Democrats promises in exchange for votes,

they have been successful citizens for many decades and generations.

thomaswong.1986 says

dublin hillz says

Barack won the latino vote 71% to 29%

its the 29% that scares the frack out of Dems/Liberals.

its the same 29% that have no need for Democrats promises in exchange for votes,

they have been successful citizens for many decades and generations.

Have you ever actually spoken to a "Latino"?

Kevin says

Have you ever actually spoken to a "Latino"?

I am a native Californian.. i have known more Latinos than you can imagine.

Garcia, Alvarez, Gomez, etc etc.. friends from my childhood... but they dont
identify themself , not the latinos many in the media talk about.

Larry Craig.....he said Larry Craig in a sentence......Impressive my friend.....I laugh in the face of people who say republicans and democrats are different. The differences are subtle. But Repubs are certainly hypocrites on Larry Craig who is 'bashedly gay'

curious2 says

Suggestion for Republicans: try nominating Larry Craig for President, without changing the party platform, and see if you get the gay vote. I'm guessing no.