patrick.net

Jesus is (in Roman Catholic theology) both fully human and fully divine, simultaneously. It's one of those mysteries of the church that we need to accept on faith. I'll have to check my catechism later, but I don't think it takes on this topic directly.

My personal argument would be something like this.

Jesus humanness made him susceptible to the temptations of sin, but his divinity kept him from succumbing to it - thus his soul would more pure than any of us mere mortals.

He encompassed the fullness of humanity, that God like representation that was planned form the beginning. Remember God made man in his image - that is to say Godlike, but it was through our disobedience that this relation was severed, causing us to fall short.

Jesus came to reestablish this bond, and he representing the perfection and purity of gods intent for creation, his soul would have be elevated above all others since he is the perfection of God’s love, and his being was in a perpetual state of grace, due to the lack of original sin. Recall that scripture tells us that at Jesus name every knee shall bend, both in heaven and on the earth.

So if Jesus soul is (and has always been) fully united with God it would have to be elevated to the ultimate level (at God’s right hand) the honor due to a king who willing sacrificed himself for the sake of the rest of humanity.

Willingly? ----My father who sent me.

To do something immoral. Substitutionary atonement.

Do you feel comfortable and moral as you line up to profit from God's murder of his innocent son instead of God punishing the guilty?

Is punishing the innocent instead of the guilty a good and just policy for a God to promote?

As to your 200% God/man, you seem to indicate he had two natures and two consciousnesses within the one body. Is that your position and if so, does that not mean he had two souls?

Regards
DL

Ok I'll bite. If Jesus is/was part of a trinity of beings/aspects that together form God, and a soul is the divine spark that makes us a part of God, or similar to God as it states in Genesis, then all souls come from God and return to God. Therefore God is infinitely souled, containing infinite souls in Three aspects of themself. Since infinity divided by three is infinity, then Jesus had not one, not two, but an infinity of souls contained in His person, in the avatar of flesh He donned for the part he was to play in man's redemption.
If sin, or evil choices, which is to say supremely selfish deeds have their consequences in the metaphysical universe, just as Physics declares reaction to every action, then to "forgive" such sins would require cancellation of the debt. Since human lives and sins are effectively infinite in number, it would require an infinite number of souls to atone for them all.
Or . . . One aspect of God, the son aspect, who is infinitely souled and thus could pay the infinite cost of the wickedness of humankind. Taking our debt upon Himself, His death repaid it all, and cleared the way for us to be in communion with and return to: God.
Since God is timeless, it didnt matter when this deed was done. Over 300 prophetic signs from the Old Testament were fulfilled in the person of Jesus, whose authenticity was therefore confirmed beyond reasonable doubt. The odds of anyone else fulfilling all of these signs (which includes many beyond any man's control) are greater than the sum of the stars in the universe.

That's my thinking on this matter, anyway. I think it does agree with catholic catechism, but perhaps goes deeper.

Not quite my position. I’m not saying he had two consciences – only one. In my view, Jesus had one soul. (Although I’m still trying to wrap my head around Quigley’s infinity soul argument – its rather elegant and merits further consideration) The reason why it is elevated above all others is because it was not stained with original sin – which was the question you were asking in the OP.

If Jesus had simply died and that had been the end of the story, then your point would be well taken – but Christianity demands that we have faith that Jesus conquered death and thus, his sacrifice was not in vain.

The whole idea of why would God put an innocent man through that? That question and others of a similar vein (why is there suffering, why do bad things happen to good people) those are questions that humanity has always struggled to answer. I do not pretend to know the mind of God and I don’t have a robust answer for you. But 1.2 billion follower later, Jesus’ message seems to have caught on.

Considering so many consciences and omniscience too, it seems rather surprising that Cardinal Ratzinger's Inquisition managed to conceal the sexual abuse of children by priests, among other abuses, for so long. Unless that was all part of the divine plan, as Akin & Mourdock would say. Or unless the whole thing's a fraud to get $, power, and access to vulnerable kids, as Dawkins would say.

Let me help you guys remove the confusion.
Jesus was a prophet just like Moses and Abraham.
Abraham preached Oneness of God, so did Moses, and so did Jesus. Abraham or moses never said "believe in Jesus as your savior". What do you think all the prophets before Jesus preached? Discover Islam. (Ok! I'm done...Go ahead and attack)

Quigley says

Therefore God is infinitely souled, containing infinite souls in Three aspects of themself.

Yours is a complicated system.

If things are as you say, then as a consolidation of souls, being Jesus or any of the other souls would not matter since there would not really be any division within the Godhead and all souls would know and be identical to the others. You are then in a reincarnation mind set and that is not the usual Christian theology.

There could not be any meaning to the sacrifice of Jesus as he would just be in transit, so to speak, the same way we all are.

There would also not be any special meaning to be God as God is just all of us.

Is this what you also conclude?

Regards
DL

KarlRoveIsScum says

Greatest I am says

If Jesus was not divine and a part of that strange Trinity concept, then he could not sit at the right hand of God as only God can sit at the highest level.

What does the Church say about the many, many other identical trinity stories pre-dating Jesus?

Sounds like plagiarism to me.

I don't know what the church says about the other trinities. They have a hard time explaining their system so trying to explain a foreign one would not be useful. I agree that they plagiarized that from other older religions. I know of only a few unique quirks in Christianity. They do have their foolish literalism which is a fairly recent way of thought.

Regards
DL

EastCoastBubbleBoy says

Jesus’ message seems to have caught on.

Hardly. See many people giving all to the poor?

I don't.

You forgive God readily for a bad thing happening to a good Jesus but should remember that that saying applies to chance occurrences. In the case of Jesus, it was a choice to do the evil thing by God himself.

Regards
DL

curious2 says

Considering so many consciences and omniscience too, it seems rather surprising that Cardinal Ratzinger's Inquisition managed to conceal the sexual abuse of children by priests, among other abuses, for so long. Unless that was all part of the divine plan, as Akin & Mourdock would say. Or unless the whole thing's a fraud to get $, power, and access to vulnerable kids, as Dawkins would say.

Ya. A plan that God can shove up his own ass from MPOV.

Regards
DL

Waitup says

Let me help you guys remove the confusion.

Jesus was a prophet just like Moses and Abraham.

Abraham preached Oneness of God, so did Moses, and so did Jesus. Abraham or moses never said "believe in Jesus as your savior". What do you think all the prophets before Jesus preached? Discover Islam. (Ok! I'm done...Go ahead and attack)

The O P is about souls.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Waitup says

Let me help you guys remove the confusion.

Jesus was a prophet just like Moses and Abraham.

Abraham preached Oneness of God, so did Moses, and so did Jesus. Abraham or moses never said "believe in Jesus as your savior". What do you think all the prophets before Jesus preached? Discover Islam. (Ok! I'm done...Go ahead and attack)

The O P is about souls.

Regards
DL

Once it is established that Jesus is a mere mortal like us, the discussion ceases. The O P arises from the confusion that Jesus is a God-Man.

Not really. Does Jesus, just a man, have a soul?

Regards
DL