patrick.net

socal2 says

Did you see the latest Pew Poll of the Muslim Arab world? It is utterly depressing. Keep in mind they didn't even poll the 3 most Islamist countries (Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Iran).

For instance, almost 90% of Egyptians believe they should execute Muslims who leave the faith. Jordan, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Palestine are not far behind.

what do they do to atheists ?

thomaswong.1986 says

Many ? really how many ? and you base that on what ?

Oh, I see how we're going to play it. O.K., then nobody thinks bin Laden is a hero either.

thomaswong.1986 says

are you justifying the terrorist crimes based on someone from 20 years ago ?

Westboro Baptist Church is quite active today. I gave that as an example of a Christian leader who advocates death for gay people. I did not justify any crimes. Not sure what you're talking about.

P N Dr Lo R says

Where is there any indication he was a Christian? He wasn't a member of the church. Why isn't it possible he was just a nut off the street high on something? Why couldn't he have been an angry atheist, which is just as likely?

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=9083398

St. Jude Thaddeus' pastor, the Rev. John Daniel, said Capener's mother was "very active" in the parish and serves as a Eucharistic minister there.

I think it's highly likely he's a Christian.

socal2 says

Why do people try to lump the other peaceful faiths with the dysfunction of Islam?

You are exhibiting confirmation bias. The vast majority of the world's 2 billion Muslims are peaceful people. You have already decided that their religion is "dysfunctional", and so any time you hear of a Muslim who is not peaceful, you believe it proves your belief.

But as I have shown here, I can just as easily point to Christians who are not peaceful. By the same unreasonable standard you set for Islam, I could "prove" that Christianity is "dysfunctional".

Reductio ad absurdum.

LOL, this is too funny. Posters arguing over which pile of shit stinks the most.

socal2 says

Did you see the latest Pew Poll of the Muslim Arab world? It is utterly depressing. Keep in mind they didn't even poll the 3 most Islamist countries (Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Iran).

For instance, almost 90% of Egyptians believe they should execute Muslims who leave the faith. Jordan, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Palestine are not far behind

This is utter bullshit, and you are a liar. Why are you quoting a second-hand source, and why are you cherry-picking only the bad parts of the survey? It does NOT say 90% of Egyptians favor executing those who leave the faith. And why cherry-pick that particular group when the overall response was pretty much the opposite?:

http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec.aspx

The survey – which involved more than 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages with Muslims across Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa – shows that Muslims tend to be most comfortable with using sharia in the domestic sphere, to settle family or property disputes. In most countries surveyed, there is considerably less support for severe punishments, such as cutting off the hands of thieves or executing people who convert from Islam to another faith

Think of it this way: There are a lot of Christians who believe the Bible should be the law of the land in the U.S. But if you asked them individually if they would be in favor of sentencing adulterers to death by stoning, most would probably say no, even though the Bible clearly prescribes that punishment.

And why do you focus on the more radical views of a minority of Muslims, and leave out the positive responses in the survey, such as:

At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths....

Many favor democracy over authoritarian rule, believe that humans and other living things have evolved over time and say they personally enjoy Western movies, music and television – even though most think Western popular culture undermines public morality....

Few U.S. Muslims voice support for suicide bombing or other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam; 81% say such acts are never justified, while fewer than one-in-ten say violence against civilians either is often justified (1%) or is sometimes justified (7%) to defend Islam. Around the world, most Muslims also reject suicide bombing and other attacks against civilians....

In most countries where a question about so-called “honor” killings was asked, majorities of Muslims say such killings are never justified....

upisdown says

LOL, this is too funny. Posters arguing over which pile of shit stinks the most.

You do know what "reductio ad absurdum" means, right?

Homeboy says

You do know what "reductio ad absurdum" means, right?

LOL. You know what I meant, and obviously it wasn't directed at you, as I see it that you see both religions as equally as ridiculous as I do. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.

SoCal, you might find this interesting:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/06/christianity-state-religion_n_3022255.html

"The new survey finds that 34 percent of adults would favor establishing Christianity as the official state religion in their own state"

And since http://www.gallup.com/poll/159548/identify-christian.aspx 77% of Americans are Christian, and 34 is 44% of 77, we can assume that nearly half of the Christians in the U.S. want THEIR religion to be the official religion of the state.

upisdown says

LOL. You know what I meant, and obviously it wasn't directed at you, as I see it that you see both religions as equally as ridiculous as I do. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Oh, O.K. Yes, I totally agree with you. This seems to have turned into a pissing match over which religion is "worse", which is exactly the opposite of the point I was trying to make.

Sorry, your post was right after mine, so I thought maybe it was directed at me.

Homeboy says

There are a lot of Christians who believe the Bible should be the law of the land in the U.S. But if you asked them individually if they would be in favor of sentencing adulterers to death by stoning, most would probably say no, even though the Bible clearly prescribes that punishment.

Alot... i guess you have history to show that as fact in the USA ? guess you can find somewhere in our history where adultery was punished with stoning as part of a divorce.

thomaswong.1986 says

guess you can find somewhere in our history where adultery was punished with stoning as part of a divorce.

I didn't say it was. I said the Bible prescribes that as the punishment for adultery. BTW, adultery means having sex without being married. It doesn't mean divorce.

thomaswong.1986 says

Alot... i guess you have history to show that as fact in the USA ?

To show Americans who think the Bible should be the law of the land? LOL. Thomas, meet Mrs. Sarah Palin:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/sarah-palin-american-law_n_569922.html

Homeboy says

thomaswong.1986 says

are you justifying the terrorist crimes based on someone from 20 years ago ?

Westboro Baptist Church is quite active today. I gave that as an example of a Christian leader who advocates death for gay people. I did not justify any crimes. Not sure what you're talking about.

You cherry pick a group of 40 and call it some kind of leadership of Christians ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

40 people.. thats it.. only 40 members ...

By the way, this is purely anecdotal, but I once asked a Christian fundamentalist friend if she believed death by stoning was an appropriate punishment for adultery. Her answer was, "Well, it would stop people from committing adultery, wouldn't it?"

Homeboy says

thomaswong.1986 says

Alot... i guess you have history to show that as fact in the USA ?

To show Americans who think the Bible should be the law of the land? LOL. Thomas, meet Mrs. Sarah Palin:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/10/sarah-palin-american-law_n_569922.html

Our whole western tradition is based on Judeo-Christian belief. Why is that shocking to you .... where have you been ?

thomaswong.1986 says

You cherry pick a group of 40 and call it some kind of leadership of Christians ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

40 people.. thats it.. only 40 members ...

The Boston bombers were only TWO people. Again, this isn't about being a pissing match. You seem to be completely missing the point.

Homeboy says

By the way, this is purely anecdotal, but I once asked a Christian fundamentalist friend if she believed death by stoning was an appropriate punishment for adultery. Her answer was, "Well, it would stop people from committing adultery, wouldn't it?"

you know of someone being stones over the past 100 years for adultery ?

thomaswong.1986 says

Our whole western tradition is based on Judeo-Christian belief. Why is that shocking to you .... where have you been ?

You questioned my contention that many Christians believe Christianity should be the law of the land, then when I provided evidence, you said it was obvious. Then why did you question it in the first place?

Troll much?

thomaswong.1986 says

you know of someone being stones over the past 100 years for adultery ?

I know of someone posting drunk on PatNet in the past 5 minutes.

thomaswong.1986 says

Our whole western tradition is based on Judeo-Christian belief. Why is that shocking to you .... where have you been ?

Based on Greco-Roman philosophy. Everything that works that is, and all the good shit like liberty, equality under the law, republican ideas, free inquiry, etc.

There is no democracy in the Bible. Only Central Authority's commands. Nor is there any philosophy or science, other than a cow's spots are determined by what their mother was looking at when pregnant, which explains all the green cows walking around today.

thunderlips11 says

Based on Greco-Roman philosophy. Everything that works that is, and all the good shit like liberty, equality under the law, republican ideas, free inquiry, etc.

There is no democracy in the Bible. Only Central Authority's commands.

Remind me again when the Brits, under Oliver Cromwell, cut off the kings head and ended central authority of the king. Or even the founders of our nations didnt impose any central authority, King or Emperor. Both founders of democracy were Christians.

But when you have non Christians imposing a revolution, like the French or Russian Revolution ( liberty, equality, republican ideas) you get a despotic regime.

Facts and history of the western tradition dont support your claims.

thomasdong1776 says

Bill Ayers is stoned.

He should be stoned or at least imprisoned like the terrorist nut head he is.

that would be justice served...

Essentially, I just don't believe that true liberals and true muslims can ever be allies due to significat philosophical differences regarding numerous concepts. Liberal people should always be on the lookout for these guys. If liberals and muslims were the only power groups on the face of the planet it would not take long before a war would break out between the 2 sides.

Thomas Wong and Thomas Dong!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Homeboy says

This is utter bullshit, and you are a liar. Why are you quoting a second-hand
source, and why are you cherry-picking only the bad parts of the survey? It does
NOT say 90% of Egyptians favor executing those who leave the faith. And why
cherry-pick that particular group when the overall response was pretty much the
opposite?:

I am quoting the Economist. Not exactly a den of Islamophobia or right wingers. Call them "liars" if you want. I can't access the Pew report at work. But the Economist report says nearly 90% of Egyptians favor death for Apostates.

That data jives with other appalling statistics out of Egypt where over 90% of women have their clitorisis cut off - even though the previous government tried to ban the practice.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evelyn-leopold/female-circumcism----90-p_b_822283.html

socal2 says

I am quoting the Economist. Not exactly a den of Islamophobia or right wingers.

The Economist is pretty right-wing, especially their editorial slant. It's just compared to the bat-shit crazy American right, they don't sound so kooky.

Homeboy says

And why do you focus on the more radical views of a minority of Muslims, and
leave out the positive responses in the survey, such as:

As I already pointed out - this poll doesn't include the more populous and most Islamists countries like Sudan, Iran and Saudi Arabia where Sharia Law is already the law of the land. So the numbers would be even worse then they already are.

There can be no doubt that the Muslim/Arab world (Arabs in particular) are way behind the rest of the planet in terms of human rights, women's rights, gay rights, religious freedom, education, economies.......

Those Islamophobes at the UN wrote a whole report about the Arab world's dysfunction over 10 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Human_Development_Report

I think it is pretty clear that a combination of Islam, anti-Semitism and the patriarchal/tribal Arab culture that has kept that civilization stunted as compared to the rest of the planet.

socal2 says

I am quoting the Economist.

Um, yes - I know. That is a second-hand source. I quoted the ORIGINAL source. What aren't you understanding about that?

socal2 says

But the Economist report says nearly 90% of Egyptians favor death for Apostates.

No, it says, " Almost 80% of Egyptian Muslims say they favour religious freedom and a similar number favour sharia law. Of that group, almost 90% also think people who renounce Islam should be put to death. Confused? So are they. "

Of WHAT group? Of the ones that favor sharia law, which is "similar" to "almost 80 percent"? O.K., let's say 75 percent, since it doesn't actually say. 90% of 75% is 67%, not 90%. Very confusing. Very poorly written. Again, why not just go to the original source, as I did, and see that the conclusion of the PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE REPORT don't have that take on it at all. They say:

"In most countries surveyed, there is considerably less support for severe punishments"

So you are referring to a survey where the AUTHORS of the survey believe that most Muslims don't believe in draconian punishments, and claiming the OPPOSITE. The only reason I can see for you doing that is that you have a preconceived idea that you insist on believing, and aren't at all interested in the truth.

socal2 says

That data jives with other appalling statistics out of Egypt where over 90% of women have their clitorisis cut off - even though the previous government tried to ban the practice.

What does that have to do with Islam? Your article says the rate is 74% in Ethiopia - also appalling. The largest religion in Ethiopia is Christianity. So by your logic, Christianity is more dysfunctional than Islam.

Actually, they're BOTH pretty dysfunctional, as are most religions. LOL.

socal2 says

As I already pointed out - this poll doesn't include the more populous and most Islamists countries like Sudan, Iran and Saudi Arabia where Sharia Law is already the law of the land. So the numbers would be even worse then they already are.

Non sequitur. There's nothing wrong with "the numbers". You just cherry-picked the worst elements you could find. And now you're making up this fiction that it "would have been worse" out of whole cloth.

socal2 says

There can be no doubt that the Muslim/Arab world (Arabs in particular) are way behind the rest of the planet in terms of human rights, women's rights, gay rights, religious freedom, education, economies.......

Now you're conflating Islam with Arab people. Arab is not the equivalent of Muslim any more than White is the equivalent of Christian. You just really aren't thinking this through.

Homeboy says

Actually, they're BOTH pretty dysfunctional, as are most religions. LOL.

If you are from the west and live in the west... Look around you,

You see the great achievements of mankind ... In the east, you dont see that.

We are not dysfunctional as you say.. but we carry the burden of Atheists and their

perversions.

Apollo 8 - Merry Christmas from the Moon

http://www.youtube.com/embed/l-16eG5MLTY

thomaswong.1986 says

If you are from the west and live in the west... Look around you,

You see the great achievements of mankind ... In the east, you dont see that.

We are not dysfunctional as you say.. but we carry the burden of Atheists and their

perversions.

Um, all righty then.

Well isn't that special.

thomaswong.1986 says

He should be stoned or at least imprisoned like the terrorist nut head he is.

that would be justice served...

Says the guy who complains about Muslims condoning draconian punishments. LOL.

Some people just. don't. get it.

thomaswong.1986 says

If you are from the west and live in the west... Look around you,

You see the great achievements of mankind ... In the east, you dont see that.

We are not dysfunctional as you say.. but we carry the burden of Atheists and their

perversions.

What's the rate of atheism/agnosticism amongst the 'perverts' that have and will continue to create the great advancements in society that you seem to so admire (and I'm referring to scientists if it wasn't clear)?

thomaswong.1986 says

Homeboy says

Actually, they're BOTH pretty dysfunctional, as are most religions. LOL.

If you are from the west and live in the west... Look around you,

You see the great achievements of mankind ... In the east, you dont see that.

We are not dysfunctional as you say.. but we carry the burden of Atheists and their

perversions.

Apollo 8 - Merry Christmas from the Moon

Rubbish as always. The west no longer has the tallest buildings or the largest highways. Plus if you go back in time, such things as gun powder, paper and the great Wall of China came from China. America was founded because they were looking for an easier way to the riches of India. Each region has its time. The east had its and declined and so did the Romans and the Egyptians. The west took the mantle. What remains to be seen, is if the east is reclaiming its mantle and the west is declining or will it be a multipolar world??

thomaswong.1986 says

You see the great achievements of mankind

Most of which occurred after the yoke of religious dogma was thrown off after the Reformation. Go perverted atheists!

lostand confused says

What remains to be seen, is if the east is reclaiming its mantle and the west is declining or will it be a multipolar world??

Are you noticing who is tearing down the western world ?

thomaswong.1986 says

lostand confused says

What remains to be seen, is if the east is reclaiming its mantle and the west is declining or will it be a multipolar world??

Are you noticing who is tearing down the western world ?

Yes-the western world itself. China or India did not start a war with the US and Europe and demand that we ship our jobs . Our corporations did that and our corrupt gubmnt refuses to put any restrictions on imports. Western civilization is being devored by its own insatiable greed.

lostand confused says

Yes-the western world itself. China or India did not start a war with the US and Europe and demand that we ship our jobs . Our corporations did that and our corrupt gubmnt refuses to put any restrictions on imports. Western civilization is being devored by its own insatiable greed.

have you known of any restriction that has worked ?