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There is no right to marriage as defined by the government, it is simply a government program. I am positive any bans will be struck down in the future and while I have no problems with that it has really nothing to do with civil rights if straight and gays can participate in the government programs of marriage while polygamists are prosecuted. The government should recognize that this is a bottomless pit and pull out of the marriage business altogether, that's what civil unions with individual contracts and/or churches of choice are for.
I agree more or less with this. Although I don't think marriage is a govt "program" but I think that was just a poor choice of words.
Whether the govt goes along with gay "marriage" or only civil unions (with all the rights privelidges that are afforded married folks) is irrelevant in the long run, because they would have marriage ceremonies and consider themselves married anyway. This is a free country. Marriage is just a word, and nobody can stop gay couples from using this word when they so choose.
The freedoms of our country give Bap the right to hate gays. He has the right to believe that they are deviant perverts. He has the right to judge them in his mind until the cows come home. On some level, I may share some of his prejudice in this area. But I also know that these feelings are my problem. Just because I can't relate to being gay or wanting to marry a man, and even if I'm not sure that it's as good a way to raise kids as hetero marriage, this is all irrelevant.
It isn't the governments place to legislate against this type of thing. That's what freedom is about !
Bap thinks that when freedom allows behaviors that his religious/moral code dissagrees with, that the governemtn should enforce laws against these.
You don't want to live in a free country, you want to live in a patriarchal theocracy.
Do you need me to name a few such countries?
That's exactly right.
He wants to argue some kind of equivalence to safety rules such as those around carrying hand guns or I presume seat belts. The difference here is simply the result of legislation from the peoples democratically elected representatives.
The majority of people don't agree with you (Bap) on gay marriage. But they also don't agree with those who would ban hand guns all together.
You win some and you lose some. That's what freedom in a democracy is all about.
There is no right to marriage as defined by the government, it is simply a government program.
SCOTUS disagrees with you, and their opinion, not yours, is what counts.
True there's laws and then interpretation of the laws, and the arguments about rights or civil rights for gays are correct, because how can they be prevented from the rights and benefits that come with marriage, just because they are predisposed to to same sex coupling.
nope, all law is based on a common code of conduct that matches the code of conduct dictated by followers of God.
1. Your God is false.
2. Sharia Law
3. The USA isn't a theocracy.
4. Your religion is dying.
At no time in human history was it better for the survival of a tribe to look upon the queer, odd, defective and see it as common or healthy.
We don't live in a Stone Age tribe. What worked in the Stone Age, for example, rape and murder, does not work in the modern age.
p.s. are you sure marriage is a right?
According to Loving v. Virginia (1967) it is. Furthermore, taxation policies cannot be discriminatory. That means if marriage affects taxes, gays get to legally marry. End of story.
Now, if you want to get rid of the legal recognition of marriage and all laws that contain the word marriage, then we can talk.
and while your at it, prove that god has eyes.....
You need to go further and explain why that justifies torture, secret prisons, illegal wiretapping, and spying on all citizens to such a level never before seen by god.
and while your at it, prove that god has eyes.....
You do realize I'm a hard-core atheist, right? Or are you just trolling?
I am 'successfully' trolling.
Look at the thread topic.
Look at what your discussing.
me +1, you 0.
Case Closed
and while your at it, prove that god has eyes.....
You do realize I'm a hard-core atheist, right? Or are you just trolling?
oh, and as an aside, a 'hard core atheist' does not invoke the name of 'god', even in metaphors.
Now the case is closed.
and while your at it, prove that god has eyes.....
You do realize I'm a hard-core atheist, right? Or are you just trolling?
you sound like Bigsby...always piling on after the fact...
You do realize I'm a hard-core atheist, right? Or are you just trolling?
We make up as much a 8-10% of the population.
I am 'successfully' trolling.
Did you reach orgasm?
me +1, you 0.
By your score count. It takes a lot more than you making a fool of yourself to get my goat.
You do realize I'm a hard-core atheist, right? Or are you just trolling?
We make up as much a 8-10% of the population.
You talking atheists or trolls?
For millenia, folks have been managing to raise kids just fine. Back then they had many kids, not just 1 or two and humanity survived. You take the one or two bad cases and make a law for everybody-what is it they say-The path to hell is paved with good intentions.
BACK THEN, you had a bunch of kids because most of them would die before getting old enough to be given a name. That's a fact. Every country that has sufficient medical care to reduce child mortality sees dropping birth rates. Mexico, Africa, every flipping one of the places that people used to point to as breeding factories for poor people, has birth rates now approaching replacement value not growth.
Another fact for you, every historical society finds some mechanism to look after their children. In a great many of them, it's by putting constraints on the men through religious, social, or civil law pressure. Women have had their own constraints that historically put the children first. There is no greater social crime for a woman, than to abandon her children.
Whatever self-centered island delusions you have, the rest of the universe has other ideas.
"A zygote is a gamete's way of producing more zygotes. This may be the purpose of the universe." - Heinlein
BACK THEN, you had a bunch of kids because most of them would die before
getting old enough to be given a name. That's a fact. Every country that has
sufficient medical care to reduce child mortality sees dropping birth rates.
Mexico, Africa, every flipping one of the places that people used to point to as
breeding factories for poor people, has birth rates now approaching replacement
value not growth.
Another fact for you, every historical society finds some mechanism to look
after their children. In a great many of them, it's by putting constraints on
the men through religious or social pressure.
Whatever self-centered island delusions you have, the rest of the universe
has other ideas.
Yes some kids died back then , but not as you make it out to be. My mom was born at home along with her 4 sisters. One did not make it to adulthood. Her uncle had 7 kids that made it to adulthood out of 9.
Men mostly took care of their kids, families, villages and countries. Men were always the first line of defense and gave their lives to protect their families and did most of the hard work-which was physical mostly. You have read too much feminist garbage literature and your mind has decided to accept that garbage as fact.
Kids don't need all this stuff. As a parent, you can make a million dollars a month and still want to live frugally and teach your kids how to live frugally, the meaning of money, work ethics and such. However the American and most western governments do not allow that and will take your money under threat of prison and give it to them -no questions asked. You cannot discipline them, you cannot teach them and you cannot question your children's mother if she is using that money to buy boob implants.
No wonder this country is so messed up-personal responsibility is all but gone and anyone who wants people to be responsible for their choices and teach their kids that, is branded selfish or misogynist or some such stupid feminist made up name.
Yes some kids died back then , but not as you make it out to be. My mom was born at home along with her 4 sisters. One did not make it to adulthood. Her uncle had 7 kids that made it to adulthood out of 9.
The plural of anecdote is not data.
In Boston 1841-1854, 61% of poor children died before age 5.
My dad likes to visit old cemetaries sorting out family history, in the older ones it's very common to see a man flanked by 2 or even 3 wives, and small stones for children.
The plural of anecdote is not data.
In Boston 1841-1854, 61% of poor children died before age 5.
My dad likes to visit old cemetaries sorting out family history, in the older
ones it's very common to see a man flanked by 2 or even 3 wives, and small
stones for children.
Yes. but that has got nothing to do with forcing men to pay obscene amounts under threat of jail and having govt control of all families.
My guess is that you are a product of our public school system, which is a proof that even back in the day, we could have done better.
Back in the 1960s the Liberals abandoned education system and pretty much everything else infavor of dropping out and doing their thing. Science Technology and Medicine was all part of the establishment system they hated. All of our advancements since didnt come from Libs .. no it was from those who believed in free enterprise and freedom.
So dont bother talking to others about how much liberals are pro-education. They turned their back on education years ago.
Thomas you are one moronic wing nut, and a pitiful excuse for an American.
The truth stings... we havent forgotten the BS from decades past..
As far as public education being an investment, it sure is. And often it is a worthy investment, often it is a waste. When you see the growing ranks of unemployed and underemployed it is obvious that higher Ed has often become a gross misallocation of resources.
Its become meal ticket for the unions. higher taxes and legalizing gambling in CA was supposed to fix, everything... sorry ! not enough we need more ! yes, its a big sucking machines draining resources..
Yes. but that has got nothing to do with forcing men to pay obscene amounts under threat of jail and having govt control of all families.
That's true. Just another tool of government intrusion and taking away personal liberty, but then again, if people decide to get officially married, then they really should know that this could be coming their way.
Children are society's priority, not your selfish useless self.
and from this the view the Tribe's view of deviant coupling can be found. And the value of reproduction, and the value of a strong normal family, are why taxation systems should support reproduction. Good point Vincent.
Back in the 1960s the Liberals abandoned education system and pretty much everything else infavor of dropping out and doing their thing.
Good stuff. "I knew a hippie once....
Let me quote.
The plural of anecdote is not data.
The truth stings... we havent forgotten the BS from decades past..
YEah yeah, I know,. There was also that one hippie who spit on a returning soldier.
You fail to comprehend two things. One - you can't generalize a couple individuals, or even thousands of 17 to 22 years olds to an entire half of the political spectrum.
But also, Dwight Eisenhower, an icon of conservativism in the days of the hippies, advocated and implemented policies that would make him a rogue communist in today's GOP.
So your emotional hangups about "my team versus your team" are totally irrelevant.
How difficult is it to understand the part of the constitution indicating the
separation of church and state?
the words I say are in the USConst are in there exactly as I said ... I have a right to bare arms.
the words you say are in the USConst are not in there - anywhere as you said ... that lingo aint there. Know what is?? "We hold these truths to be self evident, that WE are ENDOWED by our CREATOR with certian unalienable RIGHTS" ..... it takes some scuzzy ACLU type lawyers to not understand that simple stuff.
Bill of rights is easy to read and understand. Rights are there for all, placed by God. Marriage is far from a right. Not even close. You have no right to demand that a cake baker make you a cake ... unless you can play the race - or - sexual deviant card. Silly progressive liberals.
Tyrants use the SCOTUS to erode the soul of America.
Once ?
Just making the point. Is your hatered of the boogeyman "liberals" totally tied to your feelings about hippies from 45 yers ago ?
You're more messed up than I imagined.
Good point Vincent.
I saw that coming.
well .... without more people the Tribe dies. In a way, your vocation came about due to the Tribe wanting to survive, and made education valuable ... much like procreation. Can you see what I'm saying?
But also, Dwight Eisenhower, an icon of conservativism in the days of the hippies, advocated and implemented policies that would make him a rogue communist in today's GOP.
So your emotional hangups about "my team versus your team" are more than irrelevant.
Eisenhower's policies such as ? strange, i thought you libs were about forward and change.. not about going back.... you cant mean that a republican policies of the 1950s were all that forward thinking ?
Just making the point. Is your hatered of the boogeyman "liberals" totally tied to your feelings about hippies from 45 yers ago ?
You're more messed up than I imagined.
Perhaps you should fast forward to California of the 1970s and decay that the drug culture of the left created.
Marriage is far from a right. Not even close
Nitpicking. Who cares ?
The point is that gays deserve the benefits and rights that come with marriage under federal law, regarding taxation, inheritance, visitation rights in the hospital, being considered basically "family," and so on.
Where are you on civil unions that accomplish all of these ?
Because if you are okay with that, IT WILL become known as marriage, regardless of what the government says.
RE: Hippies - God + Drugs = DNC. The immoral dope smoking group is now in charge and that is why things are F-ed up, and also why their guilt makes them want to make dope legal ... that will really show their folks just how stupid they were to ground them when they busted them smoking dope. Silly Hippies.
Hippies + God + Drugs = Branch Dividians
Eisenhower's policies such as ?
Taxes and investment in infrastructure are enough.
Where are you on civil unions that accomplish all of these ?
read my value of procreation to the tribe, and then respond, and I'll frorm a response.
meaning, I answered it already and I think you will agree ... since your vocation is anchored in the same Tribe survival system
Hippies - God + Drugs = DNC.
IT is fascinating how much you have in common with the Taliban, that is with regard to the evil of western values.
meaning, I answered it already
Okay, but I'm not going to search for it, and I guess you don't know how to put a link on your comment to it.
I do like their views on morality and modest public behavior. I dislike their entire system being based on lies, fear, hate, and zero individualism. I like individualism.
Good point Vincent.
I saw that coming.
well .... without more people the Tribe dies. In a way, your vocation came about due to the Tribe wanting to survive, and made education valuable ... much like procreation. Can you see what I'm saying?
re-post
You mean this ?
and from this the view the Tribe's view of deviant coupling can be found. And the value of reproduction, and the value of a strong normal family, are why taxation systems should support reproduction. Good point Vincent.
time-out, wife is calling me to watch some home repair show with her .... adios, good evening.
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