patrick.net

What am I supposed to explain ? Govenrment employees never get raises if they aren't requested by their representative unions. What do you think happens ? Perhaps the state govt eventually says, "you know what, you guys have really been hosed the last 8 years. You don't even have to ask, I think it's time we gave you a little bit of a raise."

I could point out that they had the good sense to not only not ask for any raises since 2006, or to complain much about pay cuts, fulough days, and massive layoffs so that now people are doing the job of 1.5 or 2 people.

No raises since 2006, but instead pay cuts and layoffs.

"OH MY GOD ! THOSE GREEDY UNIONS AGAIN ! THEY JUST WANT MORE, MORE, MORE. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ?????

Oh, the horror. "THE STATUS QUO"

Where pay goes up a fraction of what the cost of living goes up.

I'm angry now. Those fucking selfish workers.

marcus says

Govenrment employees never get raises if they aren't requested by their representative unions.

So I should think of the public sector workers as innocent Little Bo Peep?

The state gets within a breath of balancing the budget based on optimistic projections and the SEIU swoops in and says give us $734.8 million in new compensation over the next three years.

Of which this is only one of many public unions

Meanwhile the states workers languish at the 9% "official" unemployment rate(45th in the nation). But you want to play don't cry for me Argentina? No doubt lowered by an exodus of workers more than anything else.

All I can say is FUCK YOU.

marcus says

Govenrment employees never get raises if they aren't requested by their representative unions. What do you think happens ?

public servants or Union servants.. should be left to voting public to approve not
some unelected nongovernment third party. no wonder the Mafia got into the big city
govt rackets. it was the Mafia that ran the city not the elected officials or people.

You guys are hilarious. Either you aren't listening to what I said, or you're truly cognitively handicapped.

I'm pretty sure that at this point it's both. Maybe mostly emotionally handicapped.

So I will conclude that:

1) You understand these workers have had no raises since 2006

2) You understand that in fact they were under pay cuts for most of 2009 - 2012

3) You understand that what they are asking for is a raise above the pay rate they received in 2007.

4) You understand that there are no built in cost of living increases in their pay. They only get raises when they ask for them, like they are now.

Like I said, you are truly hilarious....

indigenous says

All I can say is FUCK YOU.

All I can say is that your cognitive and emotional challenges make me feel sad. I know you're old, and that you're stuck this way. I would suggest getting one of those software programs that gives your brain exercise. It should at least slow down the rate at which you are declining.

"Improve your brain performance and live a better life"

http://www.lumosity.com/landing_pages/349?gclid=CMnx8c289rcCFUZxQgodWG0AoQ

THomas you could benefit from this too. Try to be open minded.

marcus says

You guys are hilarious. Either you aren't listening to what I said, or you're truly cognitively handy capped.

A few highlight of this article:

from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of December 2009, state and local government employees earned total compensation of $39.60 an hour, compared to $27.42 an hour for private industry workers-a difference of over 44 percent. This includes 35 percent higher wages and nearly 69 percent greater benefits

Data from the U.S. Census Bureau similarly show that in 2007 the average annual salary of a California state government employee was $53,958, nearly 32 percent greater than the average private sector worker ($40,991).

the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) National Compensation Survey, private-sector employees worked an average of 2,050 hours in 2008, 12 percent more than the 1,825 hours worked by the average public-sector employee.

Many more differences here:

http://reason.org/news/show/public-sector-private-sector-salary

You have to be pretty damn narcissistic to even approach the arrogance of someone like you.

Marcus said,

"OH MY GOD ! THOSE GREEDY UNIONS AGAIN ! THEY JUST WANT MORE, MORE, MORE. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ?????

Wonder how many Govt. doling Con.Rep.Teabag Right Wing Radical Socialist are members of unions in this country. rofl

indigenous says

compared to $27.42 an hour for private industry workers

Which workers ? Does this include retail workers ? Probably. How about salaried executives ? Probably not. It would be easy to make the numbers come out to say what ever you wanted them to, depending on who you chose to include.

Unless you're talking about the exact same job, these kind of comparative numbers are meaningless. And even then it wouldn't necessarily be meaningful.

Nice try though.

marcus says

indigenous says

compared to $27.42 an hour for private industry workers

Which workers ? Does this include retail workers ? Probably. How about salaried executives ? Probably not. It would be easy to make the numbers come out to say what ever you wanted them to, depending on who you chose to include.

Unless you're talking about the exact same job, these kind of comparative numbers are meaningless. And even then it wouldn't necessarily be meaningful.

Nice try though.

"Several analyses of average wages and benefits in the public and private sectors reveal that state and local government workers earn more than private sector workers. According"

marcus says

Unless you're talking about the exact same job, these kind of comparative
numbers are meaningless. And even then it wouldn't necessarily be meaningful.

Nice try though.

This is sometimes the issue, but additionally I have never seen the employer portion of Social Security taxes added to private sector compensation, while they do add contributions to state retirement plans to public compensation, as an example.

Most state employees, if they were only state employees throughout their career, are not eligible for social security benefits.

Over 50% of public sector workers have a bachelors degree, while around 1/3 of private employee have that level of education. As we all know, education is strongly correlated to earning power. There are roughly 10 times the number of private sector workers vs. public sector workers. We know that someone with a bachelor's or higher, on average, earns 50% more than someone without it. Therefore, simple math of these demographics shows:

Average wage (public)= 50% of workforce * 1.5 * salary + 50% workforce * salary = 1.25 * salary

Average wage (private) = 33% of workforce + 1.5 * salary + .67 of workforce * salary = 1.165 * salary

Looking at it broadly across all private workers vs. all public workers needs to be normalized for this.

However, unions have effectively added a wage floor to lower educated workers. If you look at the breakdown of total compensation by educational attainment, only those workers without a bachelor's degree earn more in total compensation than their private counterparts. In every other level of educational attainment, the private sector prevails.
http://www.epi.org/publication/public_sector_workers_earn_less/

This data was taken from the current population survey, here:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032012/perinc/toc.htm

marcus says

people are doing the job of 1.5 or 2 people.

since govt workers were previously doing the job of 0.5 persons and now they are asked to do the job of 2 people, then in reality they are just now doing the job of 1 person...

indigenous says

So I should think of the public sector workers as innocent Little Bo Peep?

"Innocent", what did they do, steal your purse?

DMV employees don't actually process your driver's license? State Cops don't investigate crimes? The Health Inspector doesn't actually fine the nasty taco place down the road before it gives some kids terminal food poisoning?

thunderlips11 says

DMV employees don't actually process your driver's license? State Cops don't investigate crimes? The Health Inspector doesn't actually fine the nasty taco place down the road before it gives some kids terminal food poisoning?

Say What?

thunderlips11 says

"Innocent", what did they do, steal your purse?

He's saying that public workers are guilty of being greedy parasites.

Public workers are guilty of that some old status quo mentality of thinking they deserve to make a decent living. It's the Unions !!!

They're GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY ! Of thinking their standard of living should not drop so fast.

This CPI calculator says prices have gone up 12% since 2007.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=1962&year2=2013

THOSE FUCKING GREEDY PARASITES ARE ASKING FOR 4.5% over the next three years. (that is a 4.5% raise to their 2007 pay level that they've been recieving since then, that is in the years that there weren't furlough days)

(note, by then, 3 years later when they have finished getting their 4.5
(2016) raise, prices will be at least 17% higher than in 2007. )

This makes me sick. And you know it's all the unions fault ! Greedy fucking parasites !!

indigenous says

All I can say is FUCK YOU.

Yes ! We all must hate unions !! THey're raping America !! If you are a true American, then protest this !! We must protest to ensure that all AMerican's standard of living drops faster !!

marcus says

Yes ! We all must hate unions !! THey're raping America !! If you are a true American, then protest this !! We must protest to ensure that all AMerican's standard of living drops faster !!

Would some one pay the same money to the parasites if the same service was offered in the private sector for less money?

Exactly. Bring in more immigrants to do the jobs. Who even cares how well the jobs are done, and who cares about the American middle class standard of living.

If I'm in my nice gated community with our own cops and our private schools, why do I care about the quality of services to the fucking peasants.

Let's get history back on track. This American experiment, giving us a robust prosperous middle class, was just an anomaly. It doesn't work.

A sinking tide lowers all boats !! Come on people !

marcus says

Exactly. Bring in more immigrants to do the jobs. Who even cares how well the jobs are done, and who cares about the American middle class standard of living.

If they were not subsidized to the tune of about 33% there were be fewer of them and the burden would not as great on public services either. Not that you are not subsidized as if your wages were not coerced you would not be overpaid either.

The American and Californian "experiment" is what allows overpaid parasites like you to survive.

http://www.lumosity.com/landing_pages/349?gclid=CMnx8c289rcCFUZxQgodWG0AoQ

People in glass houses...

marcus says

Exactly. Bring in more immigrants to do the jobs. Who even cares how well the jobs are done, and who cares about the American middle class standard of living.

Marcus the problem is that you dont need cheap immigrant labor pools to do govt jobs. There are PLENTY of US citizens who would gladly do the job for much less... since much less is still a LOT

That's such bullshit. You could have trained to be a cop or a teacher, or countless other government jobs. It's not like they have been patronage jobs, only given out to political friends, although you would think so listening to all of the propaganda around here.

The interesting thing to me is the people like indigenous or meccos or thomas. If you guys have good jobs making more than govt workers, you probably earn that money, in which case you respect the hard working govt workers and don't think they are overpaid.

I'd love to know what you guys do for work that makes you so comfortable complaining about how overpaid government workers are. T.wong claims to be a comptroller at a tech firm in SF. Seems unlikely, that sounds like real work. In which case he wouldn't begrudge California govt workers being paid a living wage.