patrick.net

Vicente, I agree with you (halfway at least). Romney thought something similar: That the Obamaconomy would mean that voters would pull the lever for him even if his campaign didn't offer much substance. Simply not being left isn't enough. They have to have something of substance.

Regarding the secret lust for disaster: I see the left making the USA into Mexico and Kenya, but not so much like the Sweden they promised us. Davis, California doesn't look a lot like, say, Oakland.

SoftShell says

What a negative thought to project onto someone, after they risk their life removing a family of four from an overturned car, that could possibly catch flames and explode at any moment.

But I guess it's expected after you've been thrashed in every debate involving GZ...

marcus says

I doubt it though. He will probably lie to himself for the rest of his life and be every bit as much of a idiot dirtbag as he was on that night.

Agreed. I am simply speechless by the continued GZ bashing. I'd like to know how many arm-chair civil rights activists have ever done something similarly useful. And all these political rants are totally misplaced, this had nothing to do with politics or race in the first place, the guy is acquitted, give him some peace.

I also agree. Marcus you are totally out of line, especially for someone in charge of teaching youngsters to be responsible citizens. Rabidly activist teachers are the sort who give teachers unions a bad name.

Eric Holder says

Did this happen before he changed his name to Ben Ghazi?

Don't give anyone any ideas.

Quigley says

Marcus you are totally out of line, especially for someone in charge of teaching youngsters to be responsible citizens.

Marcus chooses ignorance, ignoring literally dozens of people, and the comment below sums up the mentality:

marcus says

I can't see his post, but I know....

I see everyone's posts, and read most, and I still don't know what happened that night or whose depiction of it is more accurate.

Quigley says

I also agree. Marcus you are totally out of line, especially for someone in charge of teaching youngsters to be responsible citizens. Rabidly activist teachers are the sort who give teachers unions a bad name.

Marcus reminds me one of those teachers that spread propaganda instead of teaching children. Kind of like in the Pink Floyd song... yeah marcus leave them kids alone.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/xpxd3pZAVHI

FortWayne says

Quigley
says

I also agree. Marcus you are totally out of line, especially for someone in
charge of teaching youngsters to be responsible citizens. Rabidly activist
teachers are the sort who give teachers unions a bad name.

Marcus reminds me one of those teachers that spread propaganda instead of
teaching children. Kind of like in the Pink Floyd song... yeah marcus leave them
kids alone.

lol, yea you of all posters want to be the charactor police and want to pass judgement of others,.................................. considering you're the poster who idolizes a treasonous, drug dealing liar.

You rw humps know no bounds, do you?

Quigley says

I also agree. Marcus you are totally out of line, especially for someone in charge of teaching youngsters to be responsible citizens. Rabidly activist teachers are the sort who give teachers unions a bad name.

What, now expressing my honest opinion on a forum makes me a rabidly activist teacher ?

Wtf ? The idiots around here just can't find bottom can they, no matter how low they go.

I'm a Math teacher. There's no subject that's has less political bias in it than Mathematics. It can be taught well or not, it can be made interesting or less so, but it doesn't have anything to do with personal opinions on social or political matters.

It is true that I bring that same unbiased kind of thinking to this subject that I do to Mathematics and teaching.

If I sometimes exaggerate about how much of a dirtbag I think Zimmerman is and was, or how stupid several of the right wingers around here are, that's nothing more than than me just sharing my personal point of view on a forum.

Nice try at trolling me though, and attacking me personally. I guess in your world that's a reasonable substitute for stepping back and trying to be a little more objective.

marcus says

I'm a Math teacher... I bring that same unbiased kind of thinking to this subject.

That's hard to believe when your comment history shows extraordinary difficulty with even the simplest ordinal numbers.

mell says

SoftShell says

What a negative thought to project onto someone, after they risk their life removing a family of four from an overturned car, that could possibly catch flames and explode at any moment.

But I guess it's expected after you've been thrashed in every debate involving GZ...

Maybe true or maybe not, that Zimmerman found himself in such a situation, before first reponders, or anyone else, but I for one am not even slightly impressed.

I guess in your world only a true hero would help out in a situation such as that accident.

In my world anyone with even a shred of decency, would help out in that situation. I'm sure if Adolf Hitler were there he would have helped out, or at least dictated to others how they should help.

No I'm not comparing Zimmerman to Hitler. Not in the slightest.

Just making the point that I do not find this deed impressive at all.

The only thing impressive about it is that Zimmerman happened to be there to help at that exact moment before anyone else was.

Why does it have to be "excellent PR"?

Do you think he staged the car crash, and made sure he was "at the right place at the right time", to set himself up to be the hero?

Would you rather that he just kept on driving, ignoring the screams coming from the car?

Did you ever consider that even though no one came to his rescue while he screamed for help while being pummeled by Martin, that he still would not hesitate to come to someone else's rescue when they screamed for help?

Does not the character of the man come through for you in this most current incident?

marcus says

Excellent PR.

Maybe if he can continue being at the right place at the right time enough, one day he will be able to forgive himself for being such a moron, and for unnecessarily killing a kid, without payng his debt to society.

Quigley, didn't you ever hear of the debate in ancient greek times about the use of 0 as a counting number? (The hostility of the ancient Greeks towards 0 is why we were stuck with an additive rather than positional numeric system until trade with the far east introduced the west to "Arab numerals."

Zimmerman could save a crying black infant from the jaws of a hungry alligator, and marcus would still downplay the deed. As far as marcus is concerned, the day Zimmerman defended himself from the assault of a misguided teen, it ignited a war of black and white (let's ignore the fact that Zimmerman is Hispanic ) and the only way Zimmerman could ever atone for such a heinous crime would be for him to cut his own heart out and place it at the foot of the entire black race with Obama, Sharpton, Holder, and Jesse Jackson looking sternly on.

This was never about self-defense for marcus in his mind. Despite the evidence (all defensive wounds on Zimmerman, and offensive wounds on Trayvon), and witness testimony that shows Trayvon had already beaten Zimmerman in a fight and continued to viciously attack him after John Good told him to cut it out, and despite all evidence pointing to Zimmerman's account being true, enough so that the Sanford Police let him go after a thorough investigation which included a lie detector test, witness statements, and a step by step scene investigation by Sanford Police at the scene, Zimmerman was still guilty in marcus's mind. Not of any crime though, but simply of not being black.

In response, I'm sure we'll hear all the usual retorts. Zimmerman was out to get black boy blood, despite Zimmerman's past history of advocating for blacks at city hall meetings with Sanford police and their alleged mistreatment. Zimmerman was probably gay and wanted to rape Trayvon despite Zimmerman having a fiancé. I mean can't you all connect the dots? Zimmerman was a gay racist who wanted to not only rape Trayvon but wanted his black skin above his fireplace. How can you not make unsubstantiated and sweeping judgements about Zimmerman? He wasn't black!!

No marcus, you are the depraved mind here. The racist. The pig headed beast who would rather compromise any shred of integrity the justice system contains so you can see the black man win. If you truly are a teacher, someone who is at least partially in charge of molding the minds of our future nation, then I am truly disappointed. One can only hope that you aren't able to spread your racist rhetoric to other young minds and poison them on the idea that America is black vs white, and that by some miracle you take your vile, filthy, racist ideology with you to your grave.

So you concur, that in your world it takes a true hero to do this type of thing ?

Interesting.

Anybody who risks their life for another person(s) is a hero.

marcus says

So you concur, that in your world it takes a true hero to do this type of thing ?

Interesting.

upisdown says

lol, yea you of all posters want to be the charactor police and want to pass judgement of others,.................................. considering you're the poster who idolizes a treasonous, drug dealing liar.

Please make no mistake, I do not idolize Obama.

FortWayne says

upisdown
says

lol, yea you of all posters want to be the charactor police and want to pass
judgement of others,.................................. considering you're the
poster who idolizes a treasonous, drug dealing liar.

Please make no mistake, I do not idolize Obama.

Like I posted before: you idolize a treasonous, drug dealing liar. So much you use his image on your screen name/profile.

That figures though that I had to explain it to ya. Blind follower, huh?

Goran_K says

In response, I'm sure we'll hear all the usual retorts. Zimmerman was out to get black boy blood, despite Zimmerman's past history of advocating for blacks at city hall meetings with Sanford police and their alleged mistreatment. Zimmerman was probably gay and wanted to rape Trayvon despite Zimmerman having a fiancé. I mean can't you all connect the dots? Zimmerman was a gay racist who wanted to not only rape Trayvon but wanted his black skin above his fireplace. How can you not make unsubstantiated and sweeping judgements about Zimmerman? He wasn't black!!

Why do you have to resort to such beyond straw man emotional bullcrap ?

In my view, race is a separate issue from this case. It doesn't really matter why Zimmerman was so delusional as to assume that MArtin was a bad person, an asshole that was getting away. It's really quite irrelevant why GZ prejudged him to be "a suspect" and a bad person up to no good.

I have a problem with an armed person with a history of violence, and psychological issues, and a heavy user of amphetamines, assuming that an innocent person is a bad person and stalking them, probably causing the altercation (yes I know that isn't his story), and ultimately shooting them dead.

I believe that if he weren't armed the altercation likely would not have happened. If it did, maybe Zimmerman get's beat up a little and Martin gets arrested for felony assault (that is if and only if Zimmerman's highly unlikely story that Martin jumped him is true).

Maybe the reason I know about this story is because of the media reflecting outrage that started in the black community. But thats as far as the racial connection goes. By the way, listen to Obama's speech when he talks about what it's like dealing with what all black boys and men do if you are half as open minded as you claim to be.

But my opinion is just a common sense perception that something happened that night that shouldn't have, and that it's Zimmerman's fault. The fact that the law in some places supports people shooting one another in situations where it could easily be avoived is really a topic for a separate coversation, but it is I guess beneath the surface, a real issue here.

Goran, you are on ignore, but i read your embarrassing rant for fun. Ultimately I feel sorry for you, and I hope you are feeling better soon.

If you are interested in the letter of law and not some racist witch hunt, then name a state where it's legally acceptable for someone to continue to beat their attacker (let's assume Zimmerman did start the altercation which is the crux of your legal argument) when they have been incapacitated as Zimmerman was when he asked John Good to help him ?

Name one state where that's legal marcus.

If you can honestly answer that question then you can have your peace about who was defender or attacker when that gunshot went off.

Goran_K says

If you are interested in the letter of law and not some racist witch hunt,
then name a state where it's legally acceptable for someone to continue to beat
their attacker (let's assume Zimmerman did start the altercation which is the
crux of your legal argument) when they have been incapacitated as Zimmerman was
when he asked John Good to help him ?

So incapacitated that while fighting or is it while being beaten into an incapacitated state, GZ was still able to unholster his pistol, get the pistol between himself and TM(so as not to shoot himself by accident), and then pull the trigger of the pistol to fire it, thus killing TM. And his only real training was Neighborhood Watch/wannabe cop training. Makes you wonder why they send LEO candidates off for 16-20 weeks for training, when they could just do the Neighborhood Watch curriculum.

Ole GZ makes Chuck Norris come across as a real big pussy.

Good PR

upisdown says

Goran_K says

If you are interested in the letter of law and not some racist witch hunt,

then name a state where it's legally acceptable for someone to continue to beat

their attacker (let's assume Zimmerman did start the altercation which is the

crux of your legal argument) when they have been incapacitated as Zimmerman was

when he asked John Good to help him ?

So incapacitated that while fighting or is it while being beaten into an incapacitated state, GZ was still able to unholster his pistol, get the pistol between himself and TM(so as not to shoot himself by accident), and then pull the trigger of the pistol to fire it, thus killing TM.

Ole GZ makes Chuck Norris come across as a real big pussy.

Doesn't take Chuck Norris, just a life and death struggle where someone is trying to preserve life, the strongest of all innate human instincts.

According to the autopsy, it was a contact shot, so all Zimmerman had to do was pull the gun with the barrel facing Trayvon, no complex aiming involved.

happens all the time actually, especially with cops, just search for gun struggles involving law enforcement. Lots of perps have been finished off with close quarter contact shots after a struggle/fight for the gun. The perp usually loses because the barrel is facing the wrong way when the gun comes out.

It would actually be quite surprising if Zimmerman "shot himself" as it would require some assistance from Trayvon for that barrel to turn 180.

Goran_K says

happens all the time actually, especially with cops, just search for gun
struggles involving law enforcement. Lots of perps have been finished off with
close quarter contact shots after a struggle/fight for the gun. The perp usually
loses because the barrel is facing the wrong way when the gun comes out.

Uh, yea. I guess the hundreds of hours and endless continuing training was useless, when I could of just taken the Neighborhood Watch seminar like GZ. Thanks for the heads up info.Goran_K says

It would actually be quite surprising if Zimmerman "shot himself" as it would
require some assistance from Trayvon for that barrel to turn 180.

Or, just a defensive action upon GZ's arm or pistol. I'll remember that for future reference.

Well, I'm sure you've been involved in lots of life and death struggles where your "hundreds of hours" of training in... internet-fight-jitsu, helped you win every battle. That being said I'm not sure how your keyboard warrior training really helps shed light on this incident.

But what I do know is that the evidence and witness testimony fits better under Zimmerman's account than it does the prosecutions where Trayvon is whimpering on the phone "like a child", yelling for help because some racist white guy is about to shoot him.

Goran_K says

Well, I'm sure you've been involved in lots of life and death struggles where
your "hundreds of hours" in training in... internet-fight-jitsu, helped you win
every battle. That being said I'm not sure how your keyboard warrior training
really helps shed light on this incident.

But what I do know is that the evidence and witness testimony fits better
under Zimmerman's account than it does the prosecutions.

Nope, just a couple of close encounters that ended in nothing. It was too stressful dealing with the 5-10% of society that sucks up 90% of the emergency or safety services of society, on behalf of people the likes of you.

Stick to blogging, it suits you and your knowledge level.

marcus says

By the way, listen to Obama's speech when he talks about what it's dealing with what all black boys and men do if you are half as open minded as you claim to be.

I thought Obama was going to talk about real issues that impact black Americans, hi % out of marriage children, hi % of black on black killings, hi % of drop out, hi % of unemployment, and little in future prospects.

but no! he talked about something that will never effect many at all.

Obviously it was the Latino half that helped cause we all know a white man wouldn't.

Via sarah Silverman: "Not to be a conspiracy theorist but has anyone seen Chaz Bono and George Zimmerman in the same room?"

Goran_K says

Zimmerman was still guilty in marcus's mind. Not of any crime though, but simply of not being black.

Wow, ain't that the truth. And not just Marcus, but the media and public.

White/Latino/Jew. All natural enemies of the Black Man.

Goran_K says

If you are interested in the letter of law and not some racist witch hunt, then name a state where it's legally acceptable for someone to continue to beat their attacker (let's assume Zimmerman did start the altercation which is the crux of your legal argument) when they have been incapacitated as Zimmerman was when he asked John Good to help him ?

I've never responded to this because it's so absurd. You have no reason to believe that Martin would not have stopped pounding Zimmerman.

How often does someone get beaten to death? At some point Martin would be satisfied, even in your deranged version of events.

Even in Zimmerman's account his reason he shot him wasn't that he wouldn't stop beating him.

Also you fail to realize that if someone won't stop pounding on you, you won't be able to get your gun. Zimmerman deals with that by saying Martin stopped to put his hands over his mouth and nose. Yeah, riiiight...

This is Zimmerman's story:

As I slid the suspect covered my mouth and nose and stopped my breathing. At this point I felt the suspect reach for my now exposed firearm and say "you're going to die tonight mother Fucker" I unholstered my firearm in fear for my life, as he had assured me he was going to kill me and I fired one shot into his torso. The suspect sat back allowing me to sit up and said "You got me".

I think that if you're so interested in defending Zimmerman, you should learn his story, even if it does sound like total bullshit.

I especially like the way he works "he had assured me he was going to kill me" in to the same sentence in which he describes pulling the trigger to kill Martin.

I can't imagine why he would do that, can you ?

(hint: could it be that when giving his statement Zimmerman feared that what he had done was not self defense ?)

Here's your assignment. If you're so hell bent on defending Zimmerman's murdering Martin, I want you to try to come up with a good argument. MAybe talk to some intelligent folks to get some ideas.

One good argument is going to be more compelling than repeating the same nonsense over and over.

And if I don't respond, its probably just because I'm ignoring you.

Glad you asked.
I goggled "beaten to death". Literally hundreds of hits came up. cut and pasted the first 4 to get you started towards the road to recovery.

http://fox40.com/local-news/stories/man-beaten-to-death-in-midtown-sacramento/

http://zeenews.india.com/news/uttar-pradesh/man-beaten-to-death-in-up_863826.html

http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/80696/Vigil_held_for_man_beaten_to_death_in_Midtown

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2013/07/19/man-beat-to-death-with-frying-pans/

marcus says

I've never responded to this because it's so absurd. You have no reason to believe that Martin would not have stopped pounding Zimmerman.

How often does someone get beaten to death. At some point Martin would be satisfied, even in your deranged version of events.

I'm not sure what to say. The guy thinks Zimmerman shouldn't have shot Trayvon because "how often does someone get beat to death"?

So Zimmerman was perfectly safe and should have just waited until Trayvon got tired of beating him. If that doesn't paint marcus as a delusional racist who plays race like he plays sports teams, not sure what will. The worst part is this guy claims to teach kids. Would anyone want their kids around this guy?

Goran, you need to work this in to your argument:

Zimmerman only shot Martin because he could feel MArtin going for his gun to shoot him, and simultaneously to this Martin had verbally assured Zimmerman he was going to use his gun to shoot him.

Zimmerman then had no other choice but to do to Martin what Martin had said he was going to do to him.

Also Martin was on top of Zimmerman preventing his escape. Are you getting it yet marcus? Forget that you love Jesse Jackson for a second,

marcus says

Zimmerman only shot Martin because he could feel MArtin going for his gun to shoot him, and simultaneously to this Martin had verbally assured him he was going to use Zimmerman's gun to shoot him.

Maybe you can make a movie out of it...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/JvVQvBJVygg

John Bailo says

Zimmer is a registered Democrat and may well have voted twice for Obama...
so labeling him some kind of White GOP.. Clansman.. does little

He is one of you.. and you are ready to throw him into the gas chamber...

Brilliant how you guys work !

Goran_K says

Forget that you love Jesse Jackson for a second,

I haven't seen or heard much from Jesse Jackson is years,...decades really. And never was that much of a fan. He had an important message though and influence. Hey, change is hard. Dissolving weird cultural barriers is hard (and also by definition a merging of cultures(what scares you)). But in both cases it's because I'm not actively involved in that world or those political movements.

But I enjoyed some of his oratory in a way. His bringing rhyme into oratory for general public consumption was something relatively unprecedented. He has an usual style that I sort of liked, and an important message back when he was a bigger presence in the democratic party.

But I was a white boy in the suburbs back then, without the decades of urban living experience I have now. So he didn't exactly speak to me in in the same way that I'm sure he did to many.

SoftShell says

Glad you asked.

I goggled "beaten to death". Literally hundreds of hits came up. cut and pasted the first 4 to get you started towards the road to recovery.

Wow, hundreds of hits 'eh. And, you say these are results from a Google search? My, if you got that many and were able to link to four then that certainly answers the question as to how often beating deaths occur.

Yeah, screw those schmucks who would have used numbers from places like the FBI Uniform Crime Reports "data", or some other government propaganda! We know in our guts that it happens all the time, and Google proved it!

The level of effort I put forth gathering information is directly related to the evidence needed to win the debate. Since I've won this debate a long time ago on factual evidence, backed up by a jury in a court of law, the time allocation for gathering more evidence was limited to about 5 seconds, in which a google search proved more expedient than an FBI search.

'sides, no need to paste the thousands of results. Anyone can repeat the 5 second experiment at will and have the results in front of you for review.

leo707 says

Wow, hundreds of hits 'eh. And, you say these are results from a Google search? My, if you got that many and were able to link to four then that certainly answers the question as to how often beating deaths occur.