patrick.net

intergenerational resources & luck are the differentiating factors between a hard working 400k-aire and a multimillionaire, generally speaking.

YOU CAN NOT BE WHAT YOU RESENT. Unsuccessful people are too busy hating successful people to learn what makes successful people successful.

EInvestor says

YOU CAN NOT BE WHAT YOU RESENT. Unsuccessful people are too busy hating successful people to learn what makes successful people successful.

Fake it till you make it. No Stinkin' Thinkin'. You too can be a millionaire if you just keep sharing this great opportunity at Amway/Quixtar will all your friends and neighbors. Direct personal marketing is the way of the future. We're all going to be diamonds!

edited to remove obnoxious CAPS.

Leona Helmsley was too busy, uh, too busy, uh, too busy showing everyone how to style canines and be frugal with their cash to resent people more successful than her.

theoakman says

Most of the people that I'm talking about enter a giant pharma corporation or wall street firm after their parents pay for an ivy league school. They never really accomplish much yet climb the ladder.

you think many who become successful think about these ivy league types.. why the distractions ?

EInvestor says

YOU CAN NOT BE WHAT YOU RESENT. Unsuccessful people are too busy hating successful people to learn what makes successful people successful.

this is so true .... too many especial today are too blind by their hate to realize it..

Let's stop the irrational hatred on Ivy Leaguers.

The Ivy League means recruitment for management consulting firms, financial services industries, DC/govt committees, law and medical schools. That comprises roughly 70+% of Ivy graduates.

With that stated, if one attends the Ivies and plays the game to become a Rainmaker in the aforementioned areas, then sure, they're rich, even if their origins were once middle class.

Unfortunately, what a lot of ppl forget is that Hank Paulson's grandchildren, also attend Ivies, and thus, they don't have to work all that hard, to become investment bankers or simply, junior partners in a some financial company.

So yes, it's better to be born rich and well connected.

Rin says

So yes, it's better to be born rich and well connected.

No, it's better to be born poor and on welfare.

At least according to Call it Crazy.

egads101 says

what a bunch of crap from two arrogant and stupid assholes!

Roberto.. you are a credit to the education you received from UC Berzerkeley..

and the contribution you have given to society.. which amounts to zero !

Some people live in poverty deliberately. To wit:

http://inplainsight.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/13/20923154-living-on-5000-a-year-on-purpose-meet-americas-intentional-poor?lite

freak80 says

Rin says

So yes, it's better to be born rich and well connected.

No, it's better to be born poor and on welfare.

At least according to Call it Crazy.

Yeah, who wants to inherit millions, when you have a once-in-a-lifetime chance your EBT card will malfunction and let you buy $500 of Mac and Cheese.

thunderlips11 says

Yeah, who wants to inherit millions, when you have a once-in-a-lifetime
chance your EBT card will malfunction and let you buy $500 of Mac and
Cheese.

That's what I daydream about. Although I'd throw in some Ramen noodles too.

I guess the reason I dislike threads like these is because this seems to be a theme that some folks on the right like to project: That somehow people on the left are all disdainful of those with wealth, and that those whom are on welfare or otherwise in a compromised position are undeserving of any assistance-aka- Ronald Reagan speak.

The background rhetoric that those whom came up with this crap for the right-wing constituency to lap up is basically: " Shut up and don't question " The system". In other words, come up with a way to make the base look elsewhere for a place to put their blame for their own failures and in this case, what better way to do so than blame people or groups who can't say anything back. Meanwhile the folks in the back room get to do whatever.

I could care less if people are stinkin' loaded. Perhaps its because I also do fairly well financially, but I also worked for peanuts for years at around $7 an hour in the Bay Area, which is NOT easy to do. So I've been there, done that, and have done well for myself. But I don't have disdain for those who make a lot less or work at minimum wage jobs. After my experiences working at restaurants and big box stores the people who still work at such places have my deep respect because that is not easy work and it doesn't pay much.

And so it is a total mystery to me why some on the right hold this caustic view of others who might not be doing as well financially an then make bland, general statements insomuch that they all must be jealous of the wealthy and also at the same time on social programs or whatever.

Sorry, but the sort of country we founded is a Republic in the form of a social democracy. That has always meant that yes- taxation is collected and used for the advancement of the greater good- meaning all of us. That means everything from battleships, freeways, pay for politicians in office, and yes- social welfare. Its all part of the same package. So why there are those who focus only and ironically only on the very programs that either currently or someday will benefit THEMSELVES is a mystery to me.

Of course there are poor people who work hard. The drywall don't hang itself. The ditches don't dig themselves. Those trash cans that get put out Thursday evening don't empty themselves. The Big Mac Meal is not created wholly by machine.

Lots of these jobs involve a lot of hard work, but pay like shit and have no upward mobility.

thunderlips11 says

freak80 says

Rin says

So yes, it's better to be born rich and well connected.

No, it's better to be born poor and on welfare.

At least according to Call it Crazy.

Yeah, who wants to inherit millions, when you have a once-in-a-lifetime chance your EBT card will malfunction and let you buy $500 of Mac and Cheese.

Man, I screwed this up. Make that 500 pounds of Yams!

thunderlips11 says

Those trash cans that get put out Thursday evening don't empty themselves.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Lockout-by-Oakland-garbage-company-Replacement-2553925.php

Some of the jobs actually pay decently (even non-illegal construction workers are paid ok), so it is more of a negative social stigma, fuck that stigma. Even emptying trash-cans and cleaning in offices in San Francisco is a relatively well paid job with great benefits (for the whole family), but I hardly ever see born Americans doing these jobs. And it is likely healthier to empty garbage cans than sitting at a desk all day. Of course with all the raging inflation these jobs are barely enough to sustain a family (single is no problem), so ideally both have to work.

The thread header says nothing about what you state.
You are simply projecting.

egads101 says

so... rich people think they are better than other people???

Then it must be the truth!

It just seems that way to you because you have none of the traits for success listed in the thread header.

wave9x says

Do you really expect rich people to admit they got their wealth by screwing others over, being greedy and selfish, and skirting the law?

Edward, your suppositions are completely wrong.

You place incorrect emphasis on the working poor and lower middle class, people whom rarely receive government benefits, in your argument.

Generally as a single person, $8/hr full time means you do not qualify for any assistence and you're usually paying federal and state income tax. I actually don't believe too many would ever be opposed to a temporary term(say five years) of medical, education, and housing subsidy for these individuals. Of course accompanied by wide scale cutback and termination of all benefits for those that don't work at all.

But that's never been proposed I don't think.

So you see no value in asking successful people what traits they think they have that made them successful.
Whether you agree with what they say, or not, there is always value in listening to others opinions.

But it seems that you and Harry don't like to listen to opinions, you both just love to shove 20000 pages of law up the nations ass without giving anyone time to read and comprehend it first...all because you had a two week window to do it way back when..

With pelosi's marbled eyes popping out of her skull as she exclaimed like a child at christmas...“But we have to pass the [health care] bill so that you can find out what’s in it....”

The law passed using reconciliation, a budget-process mechanism intended to reconcile differences in Congress’s budget proposals and carry out deficit-reduction instructions. Instead, Senate Democrats hijacked the process to pass Obamacare with a simple and purely partisan majority. No other major social-policy change—not the Civil Rights Act, not Social Security, not Medicare—was successful at becoming anchored in American policy and law with absolutely zero bipartisan support.

edvard2 says

And therefor this post was totally pointless.

SoftShell says

So you see no value in asking successful people what traits they think they have that made them successful.

Whether you agree with what they say, or not, there is always value in listening to others opinions.

Agreed.

theoakman says

Now I'm not trying to label people with a paint brush, because I've met plenty of great rich folks in town. But seriously, a good portion of these people get where they are because they manipulate their way to the top screwing everyone over in the process

and screw they do. they famously even like to screw over the caretakers of their children, parents and favorite pets, not to mention thjeir cabbies and watresses.

example 1: i hailed a cab in sf that had just dropped off ex -mayor willie brown. cabbie told me that for a $5.80 fare slick willie gave the cabbie $6.00 and told him to keep the change!

example 2: sitting in a famous sf resaurtant next to a diane finestein party of 6, which included her uc regent, war-profiteering, real estate-developering, post office fire- selling husband, mr r blum, who removed himself away from the table to pay the check. the waiter showed me the credit card slip after the difi party left.
mr blummer left a whopping 12% tip!!!

many rich, not all of course, but many are different from the rest of us, in that they think serving them in the style to which they are accostomed should be thrill enough. they feel that money compensation is such a crass and vulgar expression of gratitude for the privilege of wiping their stinky assholes!

Ah, people who supported GW Bush and Reagan are hectoring the rest of us about the extreme dangers of (a) deficit spending and (b) passing huge legislation in a hurry without reading it.

It must be a day ending in "ay" - all's right with the world.

Happy Monday, Tovarischi!

coriacci1 says

example 1: i hailed a cab in sf that had just dropped off ex -mayor willie brown. cabbie told me that for a $5.80 fare slick willie gave the cabbie $6.00 and told him to keep the change!

example 2: sitting in a famous sf resaurtant next to a diane finestein party of 6, which included her uc regent, war-profiteering, real estate-developering, post office fire- selling husband, mr r blum, who removed himself away from the table to pay the check. the waiter showed me the credit card slip after the difi party left.

mr blummer left a whopping 12% tip!!!

many rich, not all of course,

The examples you give are much wealthier than millionaires and also famous, no doubt a lot of of obnoxious brats (hint: insider trading). But there are also a lot of hard working American's who started out small and maybe achieved millionaire-hood by now - which buys you a mortgage-free medium-sized shack in a middle-class neighborhood in SF. Maybe this should be named success-factors to achieve a foothold and stability in the upper middle-class segment ;)

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

Bingo. My first business during undergrad years required 7 day weeks, tons of phone time and working through the night on a regular basis, even on Sundays which made me feel like a witless grind. I could see people my age staggering home or getting on the train going out and having lives that did not involve endless lists and lists of lists. Sigh. Years later, and a couple of countries away, in New Zealand, between enterprises I had convinced the STA office in Dunedin that I was a student and got a travel ID that I could abuse to get half off commuter flights and to save money I would walk to the airport. I forget where but I think it was Greymouth, as I remember the locals had trouble with flooding at the time, and as these things are often developed, cars and pedestrian traffic had to travel through an adjacent industrial park. Wouldn't you know it, every corner office was lit. It was long after dark. Sunday.

Were you running small arms to central African warlords???

The one factor that is glaringly left out is:

LUCK.

I'm not detracting from any of the other qualities that lend themselves to success.

However, anyone who leaves out luck is being dishonest with themselves or bullshitting you.

This applies to myself as well. I'm not technically a millionaire (unlike some of our paper millionaires on this board) but I do have an excellent paying job. Yes I worked hard, studied, sacrificed, etc etc, but I did have a good bit of luck on my side to land me where I am.

Facebooksux says

The one factor that is glaringly left out is:

LUCK.

I'm not detracting from any of the other qualities that lend themselves to success.

However, anyone who leaves out luck is being dishonest with themselves or bullshitting you.

This applies to myself as well. I'm not technically a millionaire (unlike some of our paper millionaires on this board) but I do have an excellent paying job. Yes I worked hard, studied, sacrificed, etc etc, but I did have a good bit of luck on my side to land me where I am.

Agreed.

coriacci1 says

many rich, not all of course, but many are different from the rest of us, in that they think serving them in the style to which they are accostomed should be thrill enough

I'm thinking of the Andre Agassi anecdote about Pete Sampras tipping the valet $1.

Google "Steve Garvey deadbeat" for more of this sort of entertainment. He patiently explained to his personal assistant that you don't have to pay home contractors, baby sitters, etc., since such people don't have a lot of pull in the legal system, and you can always find the next one to work for free. I'm sure that day care, plumbers, and other middle-class went into their field with open eyes, and should know the risks - it's their fault.

A contractor on my house had an anecdote about a rich fvcker in Malibu who underwent a huge renovation, spread the work among multiple contractors, and then told each of them individually that there was no evidence they had ever worked on his house, and that they were welcome to try to get their money through the court system.

Many or most wealthy people are not like this, but, as an HOA advisor who worked with multiple developers once told me, you should assume when getting a wealthy person to pay for something that's between $5K and $12K, that you may only be getting $5K, as many of them figure that, below $12K, most of the plebes can't afford the legal fees and will be happy not to have to hassle with small claims court.

Bad example. Willie may have had only 6 bucks in his pocket at the time. Or maybe the cabbie was rude to him...lots of reasons not to tip a larger amount.

coriacci1 says

example 1: i hailed a cab in sf that had just dropped off ex -mayor willie brown. cabbie told me that for a $5.80 fare slick willie gave the cabbie $6.00 and told him to keep the change!

Bad example.
Maybe, just maybe the food and/or service sucked. Why should anyone tip poor service?

coriacci1 says

example 2: sitting in a famous sf resaurtant next to a diane finestein party of 6, which included her uc regent, war-profiteering, real estate-developering, post office fire- selling husband, mr r blum, who removed himself away from the table to pay the check. the waiter showed me the credit card slip after the difi party left.

mr blummer left a whopping 12% tip!!!

SoftShell says

Bad example. Willie may have had only 6 bucks in his pocket at the time. Or maybe the cabbie was rude to him...lots of reasons not to tip a larger amount.

coriacci1 says

example 1: i hailed a cab in sf that had just dropped off ex -mayor willie brown. cabbie told me that for a $5.80 fare slick willie gave the cabbie $6.00 and told him to keep the change!

Correct!!
He may have spotted him a free hour or two with a high end local escort! We don't know all the details of the story!

Blurtman says

Millionaire ain't rich.

This.

The ignorance of the L-curve of wealth distribution in this country amazes me. If you make less than $750,000 a year, you're labor or middle-class. You might be acquiring capital rapidly enough to place your children in the capital class, but that means no Audi or BMW for you (well, used maybe).

More fun at http://www.lcurve.org/

The US population is represented along the length of the football field, arranged in order of income.

Median US family income (the family at the 50 yard line) is ~$40,000 (a stack of $100 bills 1.6 inches high.)

--The family on the 95 yard line earns about $100,000 per year, a stack of $100 bills about 4 inches high.

--At the 99 yard line the income is about $300,000, a stack of $100 bills about a foot high.

--The curve reaches $1 million (a 40 inch high stack of $100 bills) one foot from the goal line.

--From there it keeps going up...it goes up 50 km (~30 miles) on this scale!

SoftShell says

Bad example.

Maybe, just maybe the food and/or service sucked. Why should anyone tip poor service?

service was excellent. i was there and heard all of the positive comments from the difi’s.

Well then, then it seems like the politically entrenched liberal leftist hack is nothing but a fuckin cheapskate! What do you expect of someone who has spent their entire life enacting legislation that separates the common worker from half his gross wages via union dues?

coriacci1 says

SoftShell says

Bad example.

Maybe, just maybe the food and/or service sucked. Why should anyone tip poor service?

service was excellent. i was there and heard all of the positive comments from the difi’s.

Facebooksux says

The one factor that is glaringly left out is:

LUCK.

I'm not detracting from any of the other qualities that lend themselves to success.

However, anyone who leaves out luck is being dishonest with themselves or bullshitting you.

This applies to myself as well. I'm not technically a millionaire (unlike some of our paper millionaires on this board) but I do have an excellent paying job. Yes I worked hard, studied, sacrificed, etc etc, but I did have a good bit of luck on my side to land me where I am.

You don't understand variance and how it applies at all.

Essentially, as I stated before, luck is a non zero factor but the negative lows of luck are heavily mitigated through repeated try's.

This is why the house ALWAYS wins on gambling, even with very small edges. They have more events than anyone else.

Try try again as you are likely to eventually succeed, even if the odds are a bit against you each time.

In short, luck isn't nearly as strong a factor as you give it credit for being.

mell says

Even emptying trash-cans and cleaning in offices in San Francisco is a relatively well paid job with great benefits (for the whole family), but I hardly ever see born Americans doing these jobs.

I disagree. Janitorial Services was a great job, but starting in the 70s and 80s companies began to outsource these positions to illegal-lovin' firms that employed non-Americans, especially "undocumented" ones.

There's a huge difference in the mentality of somebody who knows they're going to live and die in an expensive first world country, and somebody who is saving money to spend in a third world country back home. Also, just by crossing the border immigrants from the 3rd world raise their standards. The latter only puts up with temporary BS, the former is looking at workin' to live with no hope of much better unless that lottery ticket comes in.

dodgerfanjohn says

You don't understand variance and how it applies at all.

Essentially, as I stated before, luck is a non zero factor but the negative lows of luck are heavily mitigated through repeated try's.

This is why the house ALWAYS wins on gambling, even with very small edges. They have more events than anyone else.

Try try again as you are likely to eventually succeed, even if the odds are a bit against you each time.

In short, luck isn't nearly as strong a factor as you give it credit for being.

If Bill Gates, Zuckerburg, Sheyl Sandberg (I can't stand her), Musk, Buffet, Corzine, or any other hyper-wealthy individual from the US grew up as a black kid in amidwestern ghetto, how LIKELY is it that they'd be where they are today?

So yes, luck and opportunity have EVERYTHING to do with it.

Cut this shit out. This is America.

All you need is an idea, $185,000,000, and a lot of hard work, and you can become rich.

thunderlips11 says

Man, I screwed this up. Make that 500 pounds of Yams!

Make that 500 pounds of Face!

HydroCabron says

The ignorance of the L-curve of wealth distribution in this country amazes me. If you make less than $750,000 a year, you're labor or middle-class. You might be acquiring capital rapidly enough to place your children in the capital class, but that means no Audi or BMW for you (well, used maybe).

Income is not wealth.

If you need a paycheck to sustain yourself you're not wealthy regardless of whether you make $75K/year or $750K/year.

If you can live an upper middle class lifestyle (take vacations, dine out, etc. without taking short-cuts in areas like health insurance) without a pay check you're wealthy.

$5M of non-housing assets gets you there supporting a $150K/year draw without the principal growing slower than inflation.

Approaching $10M where you live off just $150K/year puts you in dynastic wealth territory which allows 2 children to do the same, with that $10M growing to $30M in inflation adjusted money over the 20 years which pass between their conception and college graduation leaving $10M for each of you provided that you transfer assets before their value exceeds your gift tax exemption or apply other legal tax reduction strategies. Each successive generation can do the same.

$5M is achievable over a working professional's career and $10M a couple.

Other people being wealthier and the difficulty of getting to the next level (with $100M and $1B reasonable dividing lines) don't change that.

HydroCabron says

Cut this shit out. This is America.

All you need is an idea, $185,000,000, and a lot of hard work, and you can become rich.

Having helped spend $200M of other peoples' money on ideas with one $360M exit where competitors turned about the same ideas into billions I agree with the caveat that iteration on idea and/or market is usually necessary.

The fast path to wealth is coming up with an idea which serves a large addressable market without compelling alternatives, turning it into a company which can grow exponentially, and accelerating that growth using other peoples' money.

Venture capitalists happily part with $10M-$20M of their limited partners' money for a 20% chance at winning with winners averaging 30X returns over a decade. Once you get good growth going they and private equity firms will give you hundreds of millions to grow faster.

Facebooksux says

If Bill Gates, Zuckerburg, Sheyl Sandberg (I can't stand her), Musk, Buffet, Corzine, or any other hyper-wealthy individual from the US grew up as a black kid in amidwestern ghetto, how LIKELY is it that they'd be where they are today?

There are midwestern ghettos?

The lilywhite & male aspect of the web entrepreneur billionaires? If you're a Teabagger it's simple.