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zzyzzx
2013 Dec 6, 9:55pm
Person was stupid for taking the ambulance to a hospital for a broken tooth.
“We only drove nine miles and it was a non-life-threatening injury,†she said in a phone interview. “I needed absolutely no emergency treatment.â€
The number of transports paid for by Medicare increased 69 percent between 2002 and 2011, while the number of Medicare patients increased only 7 percent during that period. In the last year, two ambulance companies have pleaded guilty or settled claims for overbilling Medicare.
“I could have walked, but I’m feeling crummy so I think, ' OK, why not?’ †she recalled.
The two-block ride was billed at $900, and she has not yet learned what her insurer may ask her to pay.
Exactly whom doesn't know these days to not take the ambulance unless absolutely necessary?
Y
2013 Dec 6, 10:39pm
Agreed.
And in this particular case the woman should have been made to pay the ambulance cost out of pocket. Why should the insurance company pay for stupidity, driving up our rates?
Person was stupid for taking the ambulance to a hospital for a broken tooth.
This is why high deductible plans need to be the norm instead of pre-paid healthcare. It forces people to watch their HSA dollars instead of taking advantage of the system.
curious2
2013 Dec 7, 5:12am
Exactly whom doesn't know these days to not take the ambulance unless absolutely necessary?
The pressure to call an ambulance is ubiquitous and can be overwhelming. It's the 'go to' thing, call 911, call an ambulance, like a secular prayer. One time a neighbor and I were chatting at his door, he said he wanted to go lie down, I said it was nice chatting with him and went home as he closed his door. He seemed fine, but soon after he fainted, then recovered. Days later, a different neighbor who has medical problems started yelling at me, calling me a horrible person, saying I should have called an ambulance. In his mind, an apparently healthy adult saying "I need to lie down" means "call an ambulance," and if you don't call the unrequested ambulance you're a horrible person. There has been a cultural shift, as more people interface more often with more pills and prescribers and medical providers, the association becomes more available in their minds, even uppermost. I said to the second neighbor, if ever I happen to mention that I need to lie down, please don't call an ambulance. I suspect he might call one anyway, since after all what does anyone know about their own health; in his mind, only the ambulance crew can decide whether you need them or not.
zzyzzx
2013 Dec 7, 6:02am
The pressure to call an ambulance is ubiquitous and can be overwhelming. It's the 'go to' thing, call 911, call an ambulance, like a secular prayer.
It's like when you are watching the TV show Surf & Rescue: Dewey Beach and everybody who gets pulled from the water gets into an ambulance - irregardless of the need! But seriously, unless you are seriously clueless you should know that an ambulance ride now typically costs $1000 - $2000
elliemae
2013 Dec 7, 6:52am
http://trueslant.com/saralibby/2010/02/17/california-town-to-charge-for-911-calls/
I worked for a hospital that built a maternity center across the parking lot from the rest of the hospital, including the ER. When a patient coded or began to bleed out, she would be sent to the ER about 150 yards by ambulance. Yes, the maternity center would have to call 911, wait for an ambulance and the patient would be transported. Sometimes it took about 1/2 hour for the process (one stellar day a patient died and I had the pleasure of being with the maternity MD while he told a grieving husband that "there was nothing that they could do." Bullshit, there was plenty that they could have done. The jury agreed.
The article has some good points - especially about the "wait times" that are reported to CMS (the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services). Many hospitals pride themselves on a short wait by reporting the period of time between when the patient signs in and he/she is triaged. They certainly don't log the time after the triage - possibly 10 to 15 hours - before the patient is seen by an MD.
So far as the ambulance charges, people are often intimidated when they're asked if they really wish to be "non-compliant" by refusing an ambulance ride. The dirty little secret is that hospitals and other providers often use "non-compliance" as a method to intimidate patients into staying or doing what they want. The Quality Assurance department often requires that physicians defend their lack of ordering tests.
The ER is a huge source of revenue for the hospital. Testing is expected. Patients aren't taken at their word as to any conditions they may have, so tests are run to confirm the diagnosis. I know this from personal experience (as well as many, many, many of my patients who have gone to the ER and had a shitload of testing to confirm a terminal diagnosis, even if the original diagnosis emanated from that hospital to begin with.
ER charges are calculated by the level of care the patient requires. Even if it's a simple fix, if it fits into a higher category the base charges will be higher. And that doesn't include the MD, tests, and products/supplies given. I have a $1,000 finger to prove that. It was a little less than $100 each stitch, and 4 hours in the ER waiting to be treated. I was "seen" immediately, and my bill even stated that. My insurance deductible was $1,500 so I paid this out of pocket - unfortunately the urgent care was closed at the time so I had no choice but to go to the ER or allow an artery to continue spurting.
And now we have cities (not just in Cali) that are charging for 911 calls. Mind you, they're not only charging for 911 calls where there are injuries and damages - but if someone (anyone) calls 911 cities are passing laws that allow them to charge the victims for the response.
http://trueslant.com/saralibby/2010/02/17/california-town-to-charge-for-911-calls/
These charges are in the hundreds, or thousands, of dollars. Some insurance companies are paying for it, but others refuse to. So, if you fall down on the ice, you might be responsible for hundreds of dollars in 911 charges. They're going overboard.
A panic attack cost me a few grand several months ago.
Lesson learned.
curious2
2013 Dec 7, 9:25am
watching the TV
Many TV shows encourage the mantra, "call an ambulance," just as many shows are brought to you by PhRMA ads that exhort you to "ask your doctor." The ad industry and the related PR industry work with the producers and influence the scripts. It's product placement, like when so many characters use expensive iDevices with the company logo on screen. I wonder if you ask Siri for advice, will she say "ask your doctor" or "call an ambulance."
BTW, once the ambulance takes you to the hospital, you are at risk for "medical misadventures."
the urgent care was closed at the time so I had no choice but to go to the ER....
That has become sadly typical. 20 years ago, you might have called a local doctor, who might either make a house call or invite you over to the home office. Routine injuries like stitches shouldn't require a hospital, and besides there is no intrinsic reason for them to cost more there than anywhere else, but the hospital corporations have used every trick in the book to suppress competition. They'll say anything to get you in the door, where those "medical misadventures" can generate huge bills (revenues). Hospitals injure 20% of patients, and a simple cut is more likely to get a drug resistant infection at a hospital than anywhere else.
New Renter
2013 Dec 7, 3:53pm
And now we have cities (not just in Cali) that are charging for 911 calls. Mind you, they're not only charging for 911 calls where there are injuries and damages - but if someone (anyone) calls 911 cities are passing laws that allow them to charge the victims for the response.
http://trueslant.com/saralibby/2010/02/17/california-town-to-charge-for-911-calls/
These charges are in the hundreds, or thousands, of dollars. Some insurance companies are paying for it, but others refuse to. So, if you fall down on the ice, you might be responsible for hundreds of dollars in 911 charges. They're going overboard.
While I agree charging for ACTUAL emergencies is beyond the pale I do sympathize with municipalities who have to waste tax dollars dealing with crap like this:
GASTONIA -- A Belmont woman faces charges after police say she made more than 40 fake 911 calls over a four-month period.
Cynthia Eudy, 60, is charged with misuse of 911. Her mug shot is making the rounds on social medial.
"She was reporting these various, imagined crimes and at some point you have to begin separating the fact from the fiction," said Gaston County Communications Director Lloyd Moskowitz.
He says he’s convinced Eudy's calls weren't malicious and she's likely dealing with some kind of mental issue. While the charge is a misdemeanor, he says it's still a serious problem.
"It takes away from our responsibility to answer real 911 calls. People who are calling to report a real emergency are having to wait because we're tied up on a phone call with an individual such as this,†he said.
Earlier this year, Moskowitz says another individual in a similar situation called Gaston 911 upwards of 400 times. They dropped charges when a relative stepped in and the calls stopped.
“Our intent is not to punish them in these cases because they are not doing it for malicious reasons, but again, they're having an affect on the 911 system," he said.
When the call is malicious, Moskowitz says they will exhaust every effort to punish the caller. On Dec. 1, a new law went into effect increasing the crime from a Class 3 to a Class 1 misdemeanor. The new penalties for convicted offenders include steeper fines and possibly jail time.
Gaston County Communications was not able to release Eudy's 911 calls because the investigation is still ongoing.
She is out of jail on a written promise to appear for her next court date.
Homeboy
2013 Dec 8, 4:01am
While I agree charging for ACTUAL emergencies is beyond the pale I do sympathize with municipalities who have to waste tax dollars dealing with crap like this:
That person is obviously schizophrenic. Charging her money isn't going to help. She needs psychiatric care.
New Renter
2013 Dec 8, 5:39am
While I agree charging for ACTUAL emergencies is beyond the pale I do sympathize with municipalities who have to waste tax dollars dealing with crap like this:
That person is obviously schizophrenic. Charging her money isn't going to help. She needs psychiatric care.
Even more tragic that her municipality were forced to squander their budget responding to her false alarms.
Homeboy
2013 Dec 8, 7:16am
Even more tragic that her municipality were forced to squander their budget responding to her false alarms.
Certainly inconvenient but hardly "tragic". At any rate, charging her money wouldn't solve the problem. There obviously is no rational thought process going on there.
elliemae
2013 Dec 8, 8:39am
Even more tragic that her municipality were forced to squander their budget responding to her false alarms.
Absolutely. However, they're required to respond to every call. The woman should be in an observation ward, but according to the law you can only hold someone for up to 72 hours if they're a danger to themselves or others unless a judge extends the hold. Calling 911 isn't a "danger to themselves or others," even though it places many other people in jeopardy by the lack of personnel to respond to real emergencies.
On another note, when I worked in the ER we used to delay treatment for assholes in the hopes that they would just leave. One guy tried the "Don't you know who I am?" route - and he was actually a well-known celebrity. Unfortunately (for him), he was a celeb who waited over 10 hours to be seen by an MD.
My fav ER stories will always be those people who arrived with foreign bodies in their rectums - I heard everything from inventive stories as to how they got there to how they were victims of a crime. One guy showed up with a prostitute to help pass the wait time.
Ah, the good old days...
New Renter
2013 Dec 8, 9:32am
Even more tragic that her municipality were forced to squander their budget responding to her false alarms.
Certainly inconvenient but hardly "tragic". At any rate, charging her money wouldn't solve the problem. There obviously is no rational thought process going on there.
As Ellie May points out 911 is obligated to respond to every call. In the case of Vallejo the charge is to deter people from mistakenly calling 911, hanging up without explaining the mistake and refusing to answer the phone when the 911 operator calls back:
http://www.timesheraldonline.com/ci_18951666
911 get all kinds of calls, many of which are a complete waste of resources:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/dumb-911-calls
If you are fine with your tax dollars paying for this kind of bullshit fine. I'm not.
Homeboy
2013 Dec 8, 9:58am
If you are fine with your tax dollars paying for this kind of bullshit fine. I'm not.
Dude, calm down. YOU picked the example of a schizophrenic woman who probably believed, in her own mind, that crimes had been committed. I didn't pick the example; YOU did. Explain to me how sending her a bill for 911 services is going to make her stop hearing voices in her head.
curious2
2013 Dec 8, 10:02am
voices in her head.
Again with the superficial (mis)diagnosis - please tell me where the article mentions voices in her head? How do you arrive at your (mis)diagnosis of schizophrenia based on the facts presented?
elliemae
2013 Dec 8, 11:46am
He says he’s convinced Eudy's calls weren't malicious and she's likely dealing with some kind of mental issue.
Perhaps not schizophrenia, but it did mention mental illness. Many people equate mental illness with schizophrenia (they also equate multiple-personality disorder) with schizophrenia. It happens.
Homeboy
2013 Dec 8, 12:31pm
Perhaps not schizophrenia, but it did mention mental illness. Many people equate mental illness with schizophrenia (they also equate multiple-personality disorder) with schizophrenia. It happens.
Don't be condescending. I am well aware that multiple-personality disorder is not synonymous with schizophrenia. In fact, multiple-personality disorder has nothing whatsoever to do with this. And I don't "equate" schizophrenia with mental illness. It is A mental illness, which is characterized by disordered thinking, hallucinations, and delusions. Obviously the communications director is not going to diagnose this woman, but schizophrenia seems the most likely candidate, since she obviously suffers from delusions (believing that crimes have been committed when none have.) If you don't think it's schizophrenia, what mental illness do YOU believe she has?
curious2
2013 Dec 8, 1:23pm
If you don't think it's schizophrenia, what mental illness do YOU believe she has?
If the communications director is correct that she has a mental illness, then one guess might be paranoia, but there are other possibilities. She might have a disordered personality and live in a neighborhood with a lot of crime, and her perceptions and descriptions of activities around her might be as haphazard as her personal grooming. I remember a case where several NYPD officers saw a key wallet and imagined it was a gun, and began firing bullets all over the place, but none of them claimed mental illness.
New Renter
2013 Dec 8, 1:50pm
If you are fine with your tax dollars paying for this kind of bullshit fine. I'm not.
Dude, calm down. YOU picked the example of a schizophrenic woman who probably believed, in her own mind, that crimes had been committed. I didn't pick the example; YOU did. Explain to me how sending her a bill for 911 services is going to make her stop hearing voices in her head.
I picked that example to show how 911's resources are wasted on non-emergencies, not to say this particular woman should be sent a bill.
The other examples I chose
People who mistakenly call and hang up before explaining the mistake AND refuse to answer the callback
People who call to complain about harsh language from a citing officer,
People who call to order "pot, burgers and Kool Aid"
People who call to report missing Jell-O,
People who prank call.
These people SHOULD be billed unless a very compelling reason exists why they should not. For example if the person is drunk AND suicidal of course no bill should be presented.
John Bailo
2013 Dec 8, 1:52pm
On the other hand, if you look at the reasons why more heart attacks and accidents are survivable, it's not through any medical miracles, but through better emergency services getting to the patient faster and delivering first aid properly.
If that has to be subsidized by a $2000 ride for a sprained ankle, then so be it, until single payer kicks in (then the Death Panels will decide who gets fast service).
New Renter
2013 Dec 8, 2:25pm
APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says
That person is obviously schizophrenic. Charging her money isn't going to help. She needs psychiatric care.
Like a therapeutic punch in the face. Couple of hundred of those treatments would help her looks, too.
Ever the optimist.
Homeboy
2013 Dec 8, 3:18pm
The other examples I chose
People who mistakenly call and hang up before explaining the mistake AND refuse to answer the callback
People who call to complain about harsh language from a citing officer,
People who call to order "pot, burgers and Kool Aid"
People who call to report missing Jell-O,
People who prank call.
These people SHOULD be billed unless a very compelling reason exists why they should not. For example if the person is drunk AND suicidal of course no bill should be presented.
Fine, but you posted those examples AFTER my post, after earlier writing: "Even more tragic that her municipality were forced to squander their budget responding to HER false alarms." [emphasis mine]
I said THAT was not tragic, and you responded with the strawman that I am "fine with my tax dollars paying for that bullshit", the "bullshit" being examples you posted after the fact. I specifically posted about the schizophrenic woman, which up to the time I posted was the ONLY example you had given.
So please stop getting your panties in a bunch, m'kay?
Homeboy
2013 Dec 8, 3:23pm
APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says
That person is obviously schizophrenic. Charging her money isn't going to help. She needs psychiatric care.
Like a therapeutic punch in the face. Couple of hundred of those treatments would help her looks, too.
What she needs is a visit from the Death Panelâ„¢. Obamacare is planning to murder all mentally ill people starting Jan. 1 2014.
elliemae
2013 Dec 12, 3:05pm
Wow, Homeboy says
Don't be condescending.
I was actually kinda sticking up for you, because you were attempting to diagnose someone based on a story and photo you saw on the interwebs. But, since you were such an ass in your response to my post, I'm wondering which disorder you've been diagnosed with.
If you don't think it's schizophrenia, what mental illness do YOU believe she has?
I don't attempt to diagnose people based on stories on the interwebs. In fact, I don't diagnose people at all, because it's out of the scope of my practice.
What she needs is a visit from the Death Panelâ„¢. Obamacare is planning to murder all mentally ill people starting Jan. 1 2014.
Are you paid up on your life insurance?
Homeboy
2013 Dec 13, 4:53am
I was actually kinda sticking up for you, because you were attempting to diagnose someone based on a story and photo you saw on the interwebs.
Bullshit. You were implying that I'm one of those people who thinks "schizophrenic" means ANYONE who's mentally ill. That's complete nonsense.
I don't attempt to diagnose people based on stories on the interwebs. In fact, I don't diagnose people at all, because it's out of the scope of my practice.
So then you don't have a better guess as to what mental illness she has, yet you feel qualified to criticize my guess. Uh huh. Look, I'm stating an opinion on a message board, not "diagnosing". I'm not going to give her treatment for god's sake. I think it's a pretty good educated guess, and again, if you don't have a better guess, then I don't think your comments are warranted.
elliemae
2013 Dec 13, 6:00am
Bullshit. You were implying that I'm one of those people who thinks "schizophrenic" means ANYONE who's mentally ill. That's complete nonsense.
Really? My opinion isn't nonsense, it's simply my opinion.
Again with the superficial (mis)diagnosis - please tell me where the article mentions voices in her head? How do you arrive at your (mis)diagnosis of schizophrenia based on the facts presented?
Although I am also curious at times, I am not curious2.
Perhaps not schizophrenia, but it did mention mental illness. Many people equate mental illness with schizophrenia (they also equate multiple-personality disorder) with schizophrenia. It happens.
Notice that I said "many people." Not "homeboy." You are taking this wayyyyy too personally.
So then you don't have a better guess as to what mental illness she has, yet you feel qualified to criticize my guess. Uh huh. Look, I'm stating an opinion on a message board, not "diagnosing".
I don't have to have a "better guess as to what mental illness she has" in order to criticize your guess in the same way that a critic doesn't have to be a professional actor in order to review a movie.
However, since your panties are in such a knot after two people whom you have never met disagreed with your post, I'd like to (again) point out that I responded to curious2 that 1) the original story itself mentioned a possible mental illness and you were simply running with it, and 2) many people attempt to simplify mental illness diagnoses.
You based your "educated guess" as to the diagnosis of a person you have never met on a third party's 282 word story that contains absolutely no personal information about her. I feel fairly confident that you left out an "un" in front of the word "educated."
schizophrenia seems the most likely candidate, since she obviously suffers from delusions (believing that crimes have been committed when none have.)
She doesn't "obviously suffer from delusions." She might suffer from delusions, she might be experiencing hallucinations (either organically or due to various unknown substances), or she might just be fucking with the authorities. Again, it's difficult to accurately tell what someone's problem is based on a short story on the internet.
Since you're so hung up on the semantics of your opinion as to what a person's mental illness is based upon your perception of the symptoms versus diagnosing them, here is a definition of "diagnose:"
"to ascertain the cause or nature of (a disorder, malfunction, problem, etc.) from the symptoms." - dictionary.com
Tenpoundbass
2013 Dec 14, 10:16pm
While I agree charging for ACTUAL emergencies is beyond the pale I do sympathize with municipalities who have to waste tax dollars dealing with crap like this:
Cynthia Eudy, 60, is charged with misuse of 911. Her mug shot is making the rounds on social medial.
What is the "Crap" the mentally Ill person or the motherfuckers who are circulating her mug shot around on social media?
I am beginning to think that it should be illegal to republish mugshots in any form or fashion for any purpose other than official purposes by the agency, until that person has been found guilty of a crime in a court of law.
OR was "Crap" like this, the fact that woman even exists?
She sure wont have any money to pay for her emergency services. What do you say we just round them all up and give them shock treatments, and court ordered lobotomies?
Now we're talking, now we just get court ordered "attitude adjustments" for every GOP fringe political group members we don't agree with, YEAH! YEAH! Oh Fuck Yeah!!!!
Look foks this is how the fucking sandwich comes, it's not polite to point, stare and laugh. And were a fucking society, where we try to help people like that weird horror show pictured above. If for no other reason, than we're rational caring, compassionate, civil minded human beings. If you want state sponsored weekly round ups of the weirdos and freaks, where they are hauled off to the nearest Soccer stadium and dispatched in a myriad of creative ways, from hanging to beheading to a cheering crowd.
I hear Iran, and North Korea is looking for a few good fascist Citizens.
elliemae
2013 Dec 15, 3:17am
Well I think it's a very good guess, and since you don't have a better guess...
Of course you think it's a very good guess. It was yours.
Since I don't know you and had no idea you have curious2 blocked (nor do I really give a shit who you allow into your world), I was responding to your post.
I don't have a better guess because there simply wasn't enough info in the story. No mention of voices in her head. No proof as to whether she is suffering from delusions or hallucinations, which are two completely separate things. There was quote of some guy who said she probably has a mental illness, but other than that it's simply a minor part of a story about the abuse of 911.
If I were to venture a guess, it would be that you believe yourself able to diagnose someone based on a short story posted on the interwebs and that you believe your knowledge to be superior in nature.
your only argument against it is that we "can't know"
Until you attend medical school and gain the qualifications necessary to appropriately diagnose mental illness, meet this woman and assess her, you simply can't know what ails her.
She sure wont have any money to pay for her emergency services.
Until the Affordable Healthcare Act is implemented, people with potential mental illnesses such as this have no options for treatment and are turned out on the streets. Whether her issues are organic and treatable, or are due to substances the patient has ingested, as long as there is no avenue for treatment patients will have limited choices as to available treatments.
What is the "Crap" the mentally Ill person or the motherfuckers who are circulating her mug shot around on social media?
You're pissed about this NOW? Mugshots have long been available as part of public record. Go to The Smoking Gun website and there are hundreds of mugshots to gawk at. CaptainShuddup says
If you want state sponsored weekly round ups of the weirdos and freaks, where they are hauled off to the nearest Soccer stadium and dispatched in a myriad of creative ways, from hanging to beheading to a cheering crowd.
I hear Iran, and North Korea is looking for a few good fascist Citizens.
Not sure why you believe that anyone is advocating for "state sponsored weekly round ups of the weirdos and freaks..." Have you made it to the garage today?
Homeboy
2013 Dec 15, 3:50am
O.K., whatever you say, Ellie. If you can look at that picture, read the article, and say that woman isn't mentally ill, I've got nothing more to say to you. I don't give two shits about your opinion; I know she's mentally ill, and I know charging her money for 911 calls isn't going to cure her.
elliemae
2013 Dec 15, 6:31am
Somehow, homeboy, you continue to miss the point.
You do realize that I never said that the woman wasn't mentally ill, I merely stated repeatedly that pulling a diagnosis of schizophrenia out of your ass and assigning it to someone based on a photo and story you read on the interwebs is a dumb thing to do. Continuing to insist you possess the ability to diagnose someone with a specific condition when it's far outside the scope of your practice (if you do have one) doesn't make you appear smarter.
The woman might be mentally ill. She might be an alcoholic, or a drug addict, or someone who possesses a unique ability to emulate the makeup of Tammy Fay Bakker, or any number of things. I don't know - but then again, I'm not the person who continued to insist that I'm able to diagnose a person based on a third party account posted in a story.
When the call is malicious, Moskowitz says they will exhaust every effort to punish the caller. On Dec. 1, a new law went into effect increasing the crime from a Class 3 to a Class 1 misdemeanor. The new penalties for convicted offenders include steeper fines and possibly jail time.
In our society, we usually punish people in two manners - either financially or by locking them up. Sometimes both. Although charging this woman (and countless others) for 911 calls won't deter them, those are the only methods we have in our arsenal. You charge them $$$, they don't pay, they're arrested and spend time in jail. All of this costs the taypayer $$$. There are no easy answers.
One could also argue that, if the woman was hallucinating that an event was occurring, she truly believed that she was in danger. Therefore, the 911 call wasn't unwarranted.
Another argument can be that these events are occurring in another dimension and the woman was sent from the future to forewarn us. Like 12 Monkeys, except with wackier makeup and no Brad Pitt.
Homeboy
2013 Dec 15, 7:16am
She might be an alcoholic, or a drug addict, or someone who possesses a unique ability to emulate the makeup of Tammy Fay Bakker, or any number of things.
She might BE an alcoholic or a drug addict, but she's probably also schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is a better match with paranoid delusions than alcoholism. I think your diagnosis sucks. Mine is better.
curious2
2013 Dec 15, 7:24am
she's probably also schizophrenic.
Three strikes and you're out. HomeAlone, you don't know what that woman's troubles might be, and your insistence on schizophrenia illustrates precisely elliemae's comment that you objected to - which she didn't even address to you, but which you took personally anyway. You don't know whether the woman in the photo has paranoid delusions or not, you don't know what events she's seeing and describing in her calls, but I do see one person whose comments show a tendency towards paranoia: you, Homefool. Read about clinical paranoia, it is a cognitive failure involving delusions but generally distinct from hallucinations (e.g. voices in the head, which you alone claim she's hearing and the article does not mention). Try reading, instead of ignoring. And read beyond the paid verbiage extolling your favorite SSRIs - who knows what those things have done to your brain. You can't stand anyone suggesting even indirectly that you might be ignorant of something, but you respond by proving your ignorance and wallowing in it. (Together with the occasional strawman.) BTW, SSRIs can cause hallucinations and suicidality, maybe she was diagnosed with depression and was put on those pills you advocate and defend, and the 911 calls resulted from the side effects. SSRIs also cause nausea and impotence and flatulence, which might explain why a certain troll sits home alone all the time picking fights with everyone on PatNet. And, frankly, I don't know how you manage to get into fights with elliemae, but you troll the site relentlessly picking fights with everyone so I guess it's inevitable that you would eventually drag even her into your dysfunction.
Returning to the original topic, one thing Obamacare supporters insist on is that putting more people on chronic pills will somehow reduce emergency visits and thus costs. In fact, RomneyCare showed the opposite. SSRIs cause emergency visits, and Medicare reports that most of its emergency hospitalizations among seniors result from four legal drugs.
elliemae
2013 Dec 15, 9:12am
Returning to the original topic, one thing Obamacare supporters insist on is that putting more people on chronic pills will somehow reduce emergency visits and thus costs.
It's not putting people on chronic meds that will reduce er visits - it's giving them access to healthcare that will allow them the opportunity to be treated before it becomes emergent. It also allows them to be treated by a primary rather than an er doc who has better things to do than diagnose and treat chronic conditions.
I do agree that there is the tendency to throw a pill at everything in order to treat it - and that's not always the answer.
I think your diagnosis sucks. Mine is better.
I guess since you're the one with schizophrenia you would know whether or not your diagnosis sucks. I didn't diagnose anyone, although I do believe that your MD is spot on with his.
Curious2, homeboy can't hear you because he has his hands over his ears and is screaming "lalalalalalala"
curious2
2013 Dec 15, 10:00am
I do agree that there is the tendency to throw a pill at everything in order to treat it - and that's not always the answer.
Thanks Elliemae, and this reminds me of a message I received from another user. He tried to post it but couldn't at that time, and besides due to the context it wasn't the right time to mention it, but this thread seems a good spot. It isn't my place to diagnose anyone over the interwebs much less give them medical advice, but here is information that emergency rooms (and most doctors) won't tell you:
[update - supplemented below in response to an editorial regarding multivitamins]
Role of vitamin D deficiency in Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA)....Costs 5 cents a day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14730601
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17967727
http://www.molmed.org/pdfstore/11_410_Laragione.pdf
Role of vegan, gluten free diet in RA
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/ar2388.pdf
http://www.webmd.com/rheumatoid-arthritis/news/20080321/ra-heart-tip-try-gluten-free-vegan-diet
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11600749
Omega 3 reduces NSAID dependency with miniscule 2.7 g/day dose over 3 month period. Some research may suggest the ratio of omega 6-omega 3 should be 4:1.
http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/5/665.short
http://www.webmd.com/rheumatoid-arthritis/guide/can-your-diet-help-relieve-rheumatoid-arthritis
Potassium deficiency in RA sufferers-foods rich in potassium
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/17349.php
http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/food-sources-of-potassium.php
Probiotics (eating fermented foods best way/supplements) for RA functionality
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21629190
All the studies are done in a vacuum of one another, but compounds in the diet work synergistically. Very few diseases can be addressed with a single compound.
There is research out there. We each live in our own bodies, and to recommend to anyone else is hard, but especially for vitamin D and the vegan, gluten free diet the evidence is strong. These are cost effective, but diet can be sometimes difficult.
The most expensive approach tends to be the most heavily promoted, but is often not the most effective. Cheaper approaches are often better, but because they cost less they lack the legions of lobbyists and salesmen pushing something more expensive and worse. I wish you well.
It's not putting people on chronic meds that will reduce er visits - it's giving them access to healthcare that will allow them the opportunity to be treated before it becomes emergent. It also allows them to be treated by a primary rather than an er doc who has better things to do than diagnose and treat chronic conditions.
Again, RomneyCare increased emergency visits, so I think the claim of reducing them is disproved. As for emergency doctors, so much of their time goes to prolonging the self-destruction of alcoholics that some practitioners advocate reinstating Prohibition. The success rates for rehab being in single digit percentages, the $ spent does not prevent enough emergency visits to offset the increase in pill-driven emergencies.
curious2
2013 Dec 16, 3:18am
One other thing emergency rooms won't tell you is how much pressure they might be facing from executives at the hospital corporation to increase lucrative admissions, putting patients at risk of "medical misadventures."
Homeboy
2013 Dec 16, 3:18am
I guess since you're the one with schizophrenia you would know whether or not your diagnosis sucks. I didn't diagnose anyone, although I do believe that your MD is spot on with his.
Uh, huh - nice name-calling. You're doing a great job sinking to the level of your new buddy curious2. Obviously you failed at coming up with any more likely guess than schizophrenia, yet you inexplicably still believe yourself to be qualified to criticize ME. "Maybe she's an alcoholic or drug addict". Wow, so lame. I take back anything good I said about you. Have fun in trollville. Population: You and Curious2.
elliemae
2013 Dec 16, 1:12pm
Uh, huh - nice name-calling.
Me? Name calling? Homeboy says
I think your diagnosis sucks. Mine is better.
It's your diagnosis. Glad you feel secure enough here to admit it.
So far as the woman in the story you continue to insist you possess far more than enough information to diagnose, I'm sticking with the time travel theory.
curious2
2013 Dec 16, 3:03pm
Having commented above about Vitamin D, Omega 3, and diet, I should add a link acknowledging an editorial published today that has received widespread attention, sometimes overstated. The editorial says most people should avoid most vitamin supplements, but it notes a possible exception for vitamin D, where some studies show benefit. The editorial does not state a position regarding Omega 3 fatty acids, which research shows may help with specific conditions including RA. The editorial states that, for most people, a healthy diet is better than relying on supplements. That's true, but people with a specific concern may want to try supplementing a healthy diet with Vitamin D and Omega 3, and nothing in today's editorial disagrees with that assertion.
In general, if something helps some people but harms others, it may appear to have no effect overall even though it is having an effect in both groups. For example, consider a matter of taste: if some people love peanut butter and an equal number hate it, then on balance it might be rated neutral, even though it elicits strong reactions from both groups. For healthy people who have no symptoms, today's editorial says the research shows multivitamins confer no benefit. I can believe that, but even so, people who are experiencing symptoms may benefit from changing their diet and possibly from supplementing it with vitamin D and/or Omega 3. And no, I don't sell either of those products - or have any financial stake in them as far as I know.
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"Why it takes so long and costs so much to get care in the E.R."
"More people step into ERs every year, with visits hitting 130 million in 2010, up 34% from 97 million in 1995, according to the Centers for Disease Control. Meanwhile, the number of emergency departments is down about 11% over that same time period."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-things-emergency-rooms-wont-tell-you-2013-12-06
Related News:
Think the E.R. Is Expensive? Look at How Much It Costs to Get There
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/health/think-the-er-was-expensive-look-at-the-ambulance-bill.html?hp&_r=1&