patrick.net

On the other hand, if you look at the reasons why more heart attacks and accidents are survivable, it's not through any medical miracles, but through better emergency services getting to the patient faster and delivering first aid properly.

If that has to be subsidized by a $2000 ride for a sprained ankle, then so be it, until single payer kicks in (then the Death Panels will decide who gets fast service).

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

Homeboy says

That person is obviously schizophrenic. Charging her money isn't going to help. She needs psychiatric care.

Like a therapeutic punch in the face. Couple of hundred of those treatments would help her looks, too.

Ever the optimist.

New Renter says

The other examples I chose

People who mistakenly call and hang up before explaining the mistake AND refuse to answer the callback

People who call to complain about harsh language from a citing officer,

People who call to order "pot, burgers and Kool Aid"

People who call to report missing Jell-O,

People who prank call.

These people SHOULD be billed unless a very compelling reason exists why they should not. For example if the person is drunk AND suicidal of course no bill should be presented.

Fine, but you posted those examples AFTER my post, after earlier writing: "Even more tragic that her municipality were forced to squander their budget responding to HER false alarms." [emphasis mine]

I said THAT was not tragic, and you responded with the strawman that I am "fine with my tax dollars paying for that bullshit", the "bullshit" being examples you posted after the fact. I specifically posted about the schizophrenic woman, which up to the time I posted was the ONLY example you had given.

So please stop getting your panties in a bunch, m'kay?

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

Homeboy says

That person is obviously schizophrenic. Charging her money isn't going to help. She needs psychiatric care.

Like a therapeutic punch in the face. Couple of hundred of those treatments would help her looks, too.

What she needs is a visit from the Death Panelâ„¢. Obamacare is planning to murder all mentally ill people starting Jan. 1 2014.

Wow, Homeboy says

Don't be condescending.

I was actually kinda sticking up for you, because you were attempting to diagnose someone based on a story and photo you saw on the interwebs. But, since you were such an ass in your response to my post, I'm wondering which disorder you've been diagnosed with.

Homeboy says

If you don't think it's schizophrenia, what mental illness do YOU believe she has?

I don't attempt to diagnose people based on stories on the interwebs. In fact, I don't diagnose people at all, because it's out of the scope of my practice.

Homeboy says

What she needs is a visit from the Death Panelâ„¢. Obamacare is planning to murder all mentally ill people starting Jan. 1 2014.

Are you paid up on your life insurance?

elliemae says

I was actually kinda sticking up for you, because you were attempting to diagnose someone based on a story and photo you saw on the interwebs.

Bullshit. You were implying that I'm one of those people who thinks "schizophrenic" means ANYONE who's mentally ill. That's complete nonsense.

elliemae says

I don't attempt to diagnose people based on stories on the interwebs. In fact, I don't diagnose people at all, because it's out of the scope of my practice.

So then you don't have a better guess as to what mental illness she has, yet you feel qualified to criticize my guess. Uh huh. Look, I'm stating an opinion on a message board, not "diagnosing". I'm not going to give her treatment for god's sake. I think it's a pretty good educated guess, and again, if you don't have a better guess, then I don't think your comments are warranted.

Homeboy says

Bullshit. You were implying that I'm one of those people who thinks "schizophrenic" means ANYONE who's mentally ill. That's complete nonsense.

Really? My opinion isn't nonsense, it's simply my opinion.

curious2 says

Again with the superficial (mis)diagnosis - please tell me where the article mentions voices in her head? How do you arrive at your (mis)diagnosis of schizophrenia based on the facts presented?

Although I am also curious at times, I am not curious2.

elliemae says

Perhaps not schizophrenia, but it did mention mental illness. Many people equate mental illness with schizophrenia (they also equate multiple-personality disorder) with schizophrenia. It happens.

Notice that I said "many people." Not "homeboy." You are taking this wayyyyy too personally.

Homeboy says

So then you don't have a better guess as to what mental illness she has, yet you feel qualified to criticize my guess. Uh huh. Look, I'm stating an opinion on a message board, not "diagnosing".

I don't have to have a "better guess as to what mental illness she has" in order to criticize your guess in the same way that a critic doesn't have to be a professional actor in order to review a movie.

However, since your panties are in such a knot after two people whom you have never met disagreed with your post, I'd like to (again) point out that I responded to curious2 that 1) the original story itself mentioned a possible mental illness and you were simply running with it, and 2) many people attempt to simplify mental illness diagnoses.

You based your "educated guess" as to the diagnosis of a person you have never met on a third party's 282 word story that contains absolutely no personal information about her. I feel fairly confident that you left out an "un" in front of the word "educated."

Homeboy says

schizophrenia seems the most likely candidate, since she obviously suffers from delusions (believing that crimes have been committed when none have.)

She doesn't "obviously suffer from delusions." She might suffer from delusions, she might be experiencing hallucinations (either organically or due to various unknown substances), or she might just be fucking with the authorities. Again, it's difficult to accurately tell what someone's problem is based on a short story on the internet.

Since you're so hung up on the semantics of your opinion as to what a person's mental illness is based upon your perception of the symptoms versus diagnosing them, here is a definition of "diagnose:"

"to ascertain the cause or nature of (a disorder, malfunction, problem, etc.) from the symptoms." - dictionary.com

New Renter says

While I agree charging for ACTUAL emergencies is beyond the pale I do sympathize with municipalities who have to waste tax dollars dealing with crap like this:

New Renter says

Cynthia Eudy, 60, is charged with misuse of 911. Her mug shot is making the rounds on social medial.

What is the "Crap" the mentally Ill person or the motherfuckers who are circulating her mug shot around on social media?

I am beginning to think that it should be illegal to republish mugshots in any form or fashion for any purpose other than official purposes by the agency, until that person has been found guilty of a crime in a court of law.

OR was "Crap" like this, the fact that woman even exists?
She sure wont have any money to pay for her emergency services. What do you say we just round them all up and give them shock treatments, and court ordered lobotomies?

Now we're talking, now we just get court ordered "attitude adjustments" for every GOP fringe political group members we don't agree with, YEAH! YEAH! Oh Fuck Yeah!!!!

Look foks this is how the fucking sandwich comes, it's not polite to point, stare and laugh. And were a fucking society, where we try to help people like that weird horror show pictured above. If for no other reason, than we're rational caring, compassionate, civil minded human beings. If you want state sponsored weekly round ups of the weirdos and freaks, where they are hauled off to the nearest Soccer stadium and dispatched in a myriad of creative ways, from hanging to beheading to a cheering crowd.
I hear Iran, and North Korea is looking for a few good fascist Citizens.

anonymous says

Things emergency rooms wont tell you

That you're ugly? Fat? Smell? Stupid?

Homeboy says

Well I think it's a very good guess, and since you don't have a better guess...

Of course you think it's a very good guess. It was yours.

Since I don't know you and had no idea you have curious2 blocked (nor do I really give a shit who you allow into your world), I was responding to your post.

I don't have a better guess because there simply wasn't enough info in the story. No mention of voices in her head. No proof as to whether she is suffering from delusions or hallucinations, which are two completely separate things. There was quote of some guy who said she probably has a mental illness, but other than that it's simply a minor part of a story about the abuse of 911.

If I were to venture a guess, it would be that you believe yourself able to diagnose someone based on a short story posted on the interwebs and that you believe your knowledge to be superior in nature.

Homeboy says

your only argument against it is that we "can't know"

Until you attend medical school and gain the qualifications necessary to appropriately diagnose mental illness, meet this woman and assess her, you simply can't know what ails her.

CaptainShuddup says

She sure wont have any money to pay for her emergency services.

Until the Affordable Healthcare Act is implemented, people with potential mental illnesses such as this have no options for treatment and are turned out on the streets. Whether her issues are organic and treatable, or are due to substances the patient has ingested, as long as there is no avenue for treatment patients will have limited choices as to available treatments.

CaptainShuddup says

What is the "Crap" the mentally Ill person or the motherfuckers who are circulating her mug shot around on social media?

You're pissed about this NOW? Mugshots have long been available as part of public record. Go to The Smoking Gun website and there are hundreds of mugshots to gawk at. CaptainShuddup says

If you want state sponsored weekly round ups of the weirdos and freaks, where they are hauled off to the nearest Soccer stadium and dispatched in a myriad of creative ways, from hanging to beheading to a cheering crowd.

I hear Iran, and North Korea is looking for a few good fascist Citizens.

Not sure why you believe that anyone is advocating for "state sponsored weekly round ups of the weirdos and freaks..." Have you made it to the garage today?

O.K., whatever you say, Ellie. If you can look at that picture, read the article, and say that woman isn't mentally ill, I've got nothing more to say to you. I don't give two shits about your opinion; I know she's mentally ill, and I know charging her money for 911 calls isn't going to cure her.

Somehow, homeboy, you continue to miss the point.

You do realize that I never said that the woman wasn't mentally ill, I merely stated repeatedly that pulling a diagnosis of schizophrenia out of your ass and assigning it to someone based on a photo and story you read on the interwebs is a dumb thing to do. Continuing to insist you possess the ability to diagnose someone with a specific condition when it's far outside the scope of your practice (if you do have one) doesn't make you appear smarter.

The woman might be mentally ill. She might be an alcoholic, or a drug addict, or someone who possesses a unique ability to emulate the makeup of Tammy Fay Bakker, or any number of things. I don't know - but then again, I'm not the person who continued to insist that I'm able to diagnose a person based on a third party account posted in a story.

New Renter says

When the call is malicious, Moskowitz says they will exhaust every effort to punish the caller. On Dec. 1, a new law went into effect increasing the crime from a Class 3 to a Class 1 misdemeanor. The new penalties for convicted offenders include steeper fines and possibly jail time.

In our society, we usually punish people in two manners - either financially or by locking them up. Sometimes both. Although charging this woman (and countless others) for 911 calls won't deter them, those are the only methods we have in our arsenal. You charge them $$$, they don't pay, they're arrested and spend time in jail. All of this costs the taypayer $$$. There are no easy answers.

One could also argue that, if the woman was hallucinating that an event was occurring, she truly believed that she was in danger. Therefore, the 911 call wasn't unwarranted.

Another argument can be that these events are occurring in another dimension and the woman was sent from the future to forewarn us. Like 12 Monkeys, except with wackier makeup and no Brad Pitt.

elliemae says

She might be an alcoholic, or a drug addict, or someone who possesses a unique ability to emulate the makeup of Tammy Fay Bakker, or any number of things.

She might BE an alcoholic or a drug addict, but she's probably also schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is a better match with paranoid delusions than alcoholism. I think your diagnosis sucks. Mine is better.

Homeboy says

she's probably also schizophrenic.

Three strikes and you're out. HomeAlone, you don't know what that woman's troubles might be, and your insistence on schizophrenia illustrates precisely elliemae's comment that you objected to - which she didn't even address to you, but which you took personally anyway. You don't know whether the woman in the photo has paranoid delusions or not, you don't know what events she's seeing and describing in her calls, but I do see one person whose comments show a tendency towards paranoia: you, Homefool. Read about clinical paranoia, it is a cognitive failure involving delusions but generally distinct from hallucinations (e.g. voices in the head, which you alone claim she's hearing and the article does not mention). Try reading, instead of ignoring. And read beyond the paid verbiage extolling your favorite SSRIs - who knows what those things have done to your brain. You can't stand anyone suggesting even indirectly that you might be ignorant of something, but you respond by proving your ignorance and wallowing in it. (Together with the occasional strawman.) BTW, SSRIs can cause hallucinations and suicidality, maybe she was diagnosed with depression and was put on those pills you advocate and defend, and the 911 calls resulted from the side effects. SSRIs also cause nausea and impotence and flatulence, which might explain why a certain troll sits home alone all the time picking fights with everyone on PatNet. And, frankly, I don't know how you manage to get into fights with elliemae, but you troll the site relentlessly picking fights with everyone so I guess it's inevitable that you would eventually drag even her into your dysfunction.

Returning to the original topic, one thing Obamacare supporters insist on is that putting more people on chronic pills will somehow reduce emergency visits and thus costs. In fact, RomneyCare showed the opposite. SSRIs cause emergency visits, and Medicare reports that most of its emergency hospitalizations among seniors result from four legal drugs.

curious2 says

Returning to the original topic, one thing Obamacare supporters insist on is that putting more people on chronic pills will somehow reduce emergency visits and thus costs.

It's not putting people on chronic meds that will reduce er visits - it's giving them access to healthcare that will allow them the opportunity to be treated before it becomes emergent. It also allows them to be treated by a primary rather than an er doc who has better things to do than diagnose and treat chronic conditions.

I do agree that there is the tendency to throw a pill at everything in order to treat it - and that's not always the answer.

Homeboy says

I think your diagnosis sucks. Mine is better.

I guess since you're the one with schizophrenia you would know whether or not your diagnosis sucks. I didn't diagnose anyone, although I do believe that your MD is spot on with his.

Curious2, homeboy can't hear you because he has his hands over his ears and is screaming "lalalalalalala"

elliemae says

I do agree that there is the tendency to throw a pill at everything in order to treat it - and that's not always the answer.

Thanks Elliemae, and this reminds me of a message I received from another user. He tried to post it but couldn't at that time, and besides due to the context it wasn't the right time to mention it, but this thread seems a good spot. It isn't my place to diagnose anyone over the interwebs much less give them medical advice, but here is information that emergency rooms (and most doctors) won't tell you:

[update - supplemented below in response to an editorial regarding multivitamins]

Role of vitamin D deficiency in Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA)....Costs 5 cents a day.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14730601

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17967727

http://www.molmed.org/pdfstore/11_410_Laragione.pdf

Role of vegan, gluten free diet in RA

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/ar2388.pdf

http://www.webmd.com/rheumatoid-arthritis/news/20080321/ra-heart-tip-try-gluten-free-vegan-diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11600749

Omega 3 reduces NSAID dependency with miniscule 2.7 g/day dose over 3 month period. Some research may suggest the ratio of omega 6-omega 3 should be 4:1.

http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/5/665.short

http://www.webmd.com/rheumatoid-arthritis/guide/can-your-diet-help-relieve-rheumatoid-arthritis

Potassium deficiency in RA sufferers-foods rich in potassium

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/17349.php

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/food-sources-of-potassium.php

Probiotics (eating fermented foods best way/supplements) for RA functionality

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21629190

All the studies are done in a vacuum of one another, but compounds in the diet work synergistically. Very few diseases can be addressed with a single compound.

There is research out there. We each live in our own bodies, and to recommend to anyone else is hard, but especially for vitamin D and the vegan, gluten free diet the evidence is strong. These are cost effective, but diet can be sometimes difficult.

The most expensive approach tends to be the most heavily promoted, but is often not the most effective. Cheaper approaches are often better, but because they cost less they lack the legions of lobbyists and salesmen pushing something more expensive and worse. I wish you well.

elliemae says

It's not putting people on chronic meds that will reduce er visits - it's giving them access to healthcare that will allow them the opportunity to be treated before it becomes emergent. It also allows them to be treated by a primary rather than an er doc who has better things to do than diagnose and treat chronic conditions.

Again, RomneyCare increased emergency visits, so I think the claim of reducing them is disproved. As for emergency doctors, so much of their time goes to prolonging the self-destruction of alcoholics that some practitioners advocate reinstating Prohibition. The success rates for rehab being in single digit percentages, the $ spent does not prevent enough emergency visits to offset the increase in pill-driven emergencies.

One other thing emergency rooms won't tell you is how much pressure they might be facing from executives at the hospital corporation to increase lucrative admissions, putting patients at risk of "medical misadventures."

elliemae says

I guess since you're the one with schizophrenia you would know whether or not your diagnosis sucks. I didn't diagnose anyone, although I do believe that your MD is spot on with his.

Uh, huh - nice name-calling. You're doing a great job sinking to the level of your new buddy curious2. Obviously you failed at coming up with any more likely guess than schizophrenia, yet you inexplicably still believe yourself to be qualified to criticize ME. "Maybe she's an alcoholic or drug addict". Wow, so lame. I take back anything good I said about you. Have fun in trollville. Population: You and Curious2.

Homeboy says

Uh, huh - nice name-calling.

Me? Name calling? Homeboy says

I think your diagnosis sucks. Mine is better.

It's your diagnosis. Glad you feel secure enough here to admit it.

So far as the woman in the story you continue to insist you possess far more than enough information to diagnose, I'm sticking with the time travel theory.

Having commented above about Vitamin D, Omega 3, and diet, I should add a link acknowledging an editorial published today that has received widespread attention, sometimes overstated. The editorial says most people should avoid most vitamin supplements, but it notes a possible exception for vitamin D, where some studies show benefit. The editorial does not state a position regarding Omega 3 fatty acids, which research shows may help with specific conditions including RA. The editorial states that, for most people, a healthy diet is better than relying on supplements. That's true, but people with a specific concern may want to try supplementing a healthy diet with Vitamin D and Omega 3, and nothing in today's editorial disagrees with that assertion.

In general, if something helps some people but harms others, it may appear to have no effect overall even though it is having an effect in both groups. For example, consider a matter of taste: if some people love peanut butter and an equal number hate it, then on balance it might be rated neutral, even though it elicits strong reactions from both groups. For healthy people who have no symptoms, today's editorial says the research shows multivitamins confer no benefit. I can believe that, but even so, people who are experiencing symptoms may benefit from changing their diet and possibly from supplementing it with vitamin D and/or Omega 3. And no, I don't sell either of those products - or have any financial stake in them as far as I know.

elliemae says

It's your diagnosis. Glad you feel secure enough here to admit it.

So far as the woman in the story you continue to insist you possess far more than enough information to diagnose, I'm sticking with the time travel theory.

Uh, huh. Right down to curious2's level. Enjoy rock bottom. I see you went with an asinine sarcastic response because you don't have a good answer. "Maybe she's an alcoholic or a drug addict". LOL.

Ah, homeboy. I do have a good answer. I've given it many times. I will spell it out for you one more time, if only because I'm finishing up some work and have a bit of time- and even though I realize you lack the ability to comprehend the issue at hand, I'll give it one more go:

In the story that's quoted there are 268 words. About 2/3 of them mention the woman in question, stating that she's called 911 multiple times and a guy who was interviewed suspects that she might suffer from a type of mental issue. She wasn't interviewed for the story nor were the tapes reviewed by the reporter, so it's an uneducated guess at best when attempting to understand what's going on in her head.

You have asserted time & time again that you possess the unique ability to diagnose this person based on the information provided by a reporter who hasn't actually met the woman but has gained his information third-hand. You have included tidbits such as there being voices in her head, and that she suffers from both hallucinations and delusions. Neither of these things were mentioned in the story - they appear to be based on factoids you pulled out of your ass.

You assert that your "educated guess" of this woman's diagnosis is that she suffers from schizophrenia, and attempt to defend your diagnosis in multiple posts even though there is absolutely no evidence to support it.

You fail to understand the flaws in your argument(s), so instead you attack the people who question your qualifications (it appears that you have none) and your methodology (again, none). All that you continue to do is assert that you have somehow "won" the imaginary argument without appearing to comprehend that with each attempt at attacking me and Curious2 you appear to be more & more stupid.

Calling us names and condescendingly adding "LOL" at the end of your post doesn't help your case at all.

While I admire your persistence, I do realize that it's impossible for me to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

elliemae says

Calling us names and condescendingly adding "LOL" at the end of your post doesn't help your case at all.

While I admire your persistence, I do realize that it's impossible for me to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Oh, but throwing insults at me helps YOUR case? LOL.

Fact is, you wrote that long post claiming to have a "better answer", yet that "better answer" never comes. There are some very telling things in the article, which it appears you didn't read, or at least didn't read carefully. "She was reporting these various, imagined crimes..." She was IMAGINING that crimes had occurred. Those are DELUSIONS. Getting drunk doesn't generally cause a person to imagine that crimes have been committed. Then there's the mug shot - it certainly doesn't prove anything taken by itself, but it is consistent with the look of a mentally ill person, and the person quoted in the article thought she had a mental illness as well. What mental illness does she have? Since she suffers from delusions, schizophrenia is a good guess. Not sure why you're getting your panties so bunched up about that; it's just my opinion. And since you don't have a differing opinion, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here. Seems like you're just here to tell me I'm not allowed to express my opinion. As I said, I expect Curious2 to engage in that kind of trolling activity, which is why I have him/her on ignore (which seems to amuse you for some unknown reason). But I expected better from you. Obviously I was wrong to do so.

My original point was that levying fines on mentally ill people isn't going to make them stop being mentally ill. All this other stuff is just you and curious2 being silly and pedantic.

elliemae says

Until the Affordable Healthcare Act is implemented, people with potential mental illnesses such as this have no options for treatment and are turned out on the streets. Whether her issues are organic and treatable, or are due to substances the patient has ingested, as long as there is no avenue for treatment patients will have limited choices as to available treatments.

Elie I here by place an official referendum on such remarks.
Obamacare has for the most part been proved a dismal failure and every naysayer has been exonerated as upstanding citizens only intention is getting to the truth.

So "WHEN", "IF", IF by chance" Obamacare sputters and sparks and then starts to run like some sound engine you folks think that heap of junk is capable of doing. Then you can post this stuff. Otherwise save it for the fairytales and Princesses returning from the netherworld story time.

elliemae says

You're pissed about this NOW? Mugshots have long been available as part of public record. Go to The Smoking Gun website and there are hundreds of mugshots to gawk

Not just NOW it's never been right and has only been used in the past to bring fugitives to justice.

A few year joy ride with the Lefty insane and the Rigid right trouncing every right the American public has, is not that fucking long, stop it. I don't know about you, but your parents wouldn't have put up with this shit, not with out a proper Washington November cleaning, dusting and waxing, to vote every no good son of a commie bitch mother out of office.

CaptainShuddup says

So "WHEN", "IF", IF by chance" Obamacare sputters and sparks and then starts to run like some sound engine you folks think that heap of junk is capable of doing. Then you can post this stuff. Otherwise save it for the fairytales and Princesses returning from the netherworld story time.

If you imply that there many be anything positive at all that comes from the ACA, you should expect to hear from this guy, that it's a terrible abomination and that not a single person will benefit in any way from it.

CaptainShuddup says

Obamacare has for the most part been proved a dismal failure and every naysayer has been exonerated as upstanding citizens only intention is getting to the truth.

So, the website is fucked up and in your opinion ACA has been proven to be a failure? The press is spoon feeding you info, and you're lapping it up.

Homeboy says

Fact is, you wrote that long post claiming to have a "better answer", yet that "better answer" never comes.

FYI, when you use quotation marks it means you are actually quoting someone. It doesn't count if you are quoting yourself from earlier in a sentence.

My answer was and always will be that you lack the qualifications, knowledge and the amount of information sufficient to diagnose a person with schizophrenia based on a short story on the interwebs.

I wasn't attempting to insult you when I stated you are unarmed in the wits department. You've proven that over & over simply by posting inane comments about this woman. You have proven your lack of ability to understand that there were no "facts" in the story - simply statements by some guy saying her calls were about imagined crimes.

My point was, and will continue to be, that you are one of those people who insist that they understand the intricacies of mental illness diagnoses and believe themselves to be educated simply because they read a little bit about it on the interwebs.

Homeboy says

it's just my opinion.

You've made it abundantly clear that you have opinions and that you believe that they're important enough to share with the people of patnet. I notice that you seem to brand those people who take the time to call you on your bullshit as trolls...

Since you believe that this woman's appearance is reflective of the diagnosis of schizophrenia, why don't you post your own personal photo and we'll have a contest as to which mental illness you appear to suffer from.

elliemae says

So, the website is fucked up and in your opinion ACA has been proven to be a failure? The press is spoon feeding you info, and you're lapping it up.

Website access aside Sweetie, people wont be able to swing high fucking mandated premiums, and still be standing after the sticker shock of the multiple never ending bills, that results from just one doctor visit, that required more than a tongue depressor.

If this thing sticks around, I wouldn't be surprised if only 5% of those not eligible for "Free Premiums" insurance, will actually buy it them selves, if their employer doesn't offer it. And for those who will have subsidized insurance. Will be scared to death to use it, because they wont have any idea what bills they will end up with.

There's going to be a whole class of poor people who's credit is going to be riddled with medical collections records on their credit report, sealing their fate to never get ahead, because everything in life that is a positive life changing experience, requires a spotless credit report.

You can fool those that don't know to ask the right questions, Ellie, but you can't bullshit people who's been around the block a time or two. Especially those that have been paying medical bills as described for the last two years, and doesn't see anything different in language of Obamacare that changes that.

All will be revealed around March 1st, when everyone who uses Obamcare services will get bankrupting bills, that will destroy households and depress the middle class and lower economy 5 fold worse than it is now.

Capn Krunch's supposition is that everyone will be visiting the MD on the first of January or going to the hospital, that the bills will be processed and people will be in arrears by March 1.

The sky will fall and the earth will stop turning and all of the rainbows will turn to black on March 1st, if only because an anonymous poster on the interwebs says so.

I'm selling out on tinfoil hats if anyone wants to buy one. I'll be raising the price as March 1 sneaks up on us

Yeah Ellie, if Obamacare is so great, then why did Nancy Pelosi answer every question with "don't worry about it, it's already baked in."

Everything was already baked into those high premium payments, and the Coinsurance payments that would equal or greater to any classic healthcare costs with out insurance at all.

"It's already baked IN!"

elliemae says

January or going to the hospital, that the bills will be processed and people will be in arrears by March 1.

You know Ellie, I have tried like hell, I've have searched and searched and stared at those hospital bills until my eyeballs bled.

There just isn't any undo button.

People wont have to wait until a judge says they are bankrupt, they will damn fucking well know their health need wrote a check that their ass can't Cash. As soon as the bills start comming. Which usually takes 3 months or more for the suspious ones that you have no way to deny and the Insurance company has no way of verifying. The ones that are a given like the lab and clinic fees, will be in you mailbox before you drive home from the clinic. It's the suspicious ones that needs more time to confuse the justification.

The wife just got a "Collections" bill for a bill we've never seen in our life, for a procedure that we were most certain our insurance would cover, but yet we saw over $3500 in bills on it. She paid them all, and was ontop of every bill that she was sent.
We got a 5 day notice for a bill we've never seen from a collection agency.

The horrors will have even greater horrors associated with them.

Don't take my word for it. But I wouldn't want to admit you work in the Healthcare industry by May 2014, it just wouldn't be a proper thing to say in polite company.

And even worse to admit you voted for Obama TWICE.

Homeboy says

Nitpick much?

Homeboy says

No, I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but I obviously know more than you do, since you failed to come up with a better guess that made any kind of sense.

I don't have to have a better guess. I simply have to possess sufficient reasoning powers to understand why, with each post, you appear to be an idiot.

We've been beating this dead horse for the better part of a week. We can continue to beat it, but it's still gonna be dead and you're still gonna appear to be an idiot.

But it's been fun.

Emergency rooms won't tell you that, with over $1 million/year in revenue to be gained, they might take custody of your child. "The battle over Justina’s future was one of five cases involving Children’s in the last 18 months where a disputed diagnosis led to parents losing custody or being threatened with that extreme step." With "no lifetime caps," each kid is worth over $60 million. Justina has been stuck in a locked ward for 10 months, and will remain locked there through Christmas and into the New Year. "Thanks, Obamacare."

Affordable Healthcare has nothing to do with this case - and there are always examples of the medical "professionals" who make decisions on behalf of a child. A few years back there was one in Utah where the child was moved out of state because the treatment plan was chemo family didn't want it.

Sure, you can attempt to link it to the lack of lifetime cap, but you can link pretty much any type of care to that. The medical community makes decisions about the care someone should receive and some asshole runs with it.

You can do better than that, curious2. Every article about our fucked up medical system can be the fault of Affordable Healthcare - even though it hasn't kicked in yet.

elliemae says

even though it hasn't kicked in yet.

That particular hospital is in Massachusetts, where Obamacare has been operating for several years, dba Romneycare. In any event, Obamacare begins next month, so you can't seriously argue that the decisionmakers in this case aren't factoring it into their calculations. I never claimed that Obamacare all by itself created every single problem, it merely worsened an already bad system. The hospital corporations that have figured out how to manipulate Romneycare for maximum revenue can now take those models nationwide, thanks to Obamacare. I encourage you to read The Good Nurse, about a serial killer who was moved from hospital to hospital like a priest molesting children in one parish after another, to get a glimpse into the psychology of the people who wrote Obamacare. At least dozens, and probably hundreds, of patients were murdered because executives at every hospital that employed that serial killer chose to protect their own financial interests rather than patients. It's just one example of how 20% of hospital visits lead to "medical misadventures." That also happened before Obamacare, but it would be tragically naive to trust that rewarding the same executives with more money and power than ever before will somehow change their nature or their response to the same incentives.