Please log in to view images

« prev   random   next »

0
0

A Case For Rising Incomes

By epitaph follow epitaph   2014 Feb 7, 4:29am 10,129 views   32 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Can anybody give me a good reason why personal incomes will rise significantly within the next few years? Cause with this level of un/underemployment I don't see how.

Happy Friday!

1   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (49)   2014 Feb 7, 4:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

No and anyone who asks for a raise hates Freedom.

2   humanity   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 7, 6:20am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Some unions whose members haven't received a raise since 2006 will soon be in collective bargaining, asking for a raise for their members. That's because their members are selfish, and only care about themselves.

Fucking unions have ruined America. Wages should be allowed to effectively drop to slave level, as quickly as possible. Let's get this over with quickly. It's like pulling a bandaid off. Just do it.

Slavery's not as bad as some people make it out to be. And as a bonus, we can still call ourselves free,...okay ?

3   Reality   ignore (5)   2014 Feb 7, 6:34am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

I have no idea if it will happen, but here is a _possibility_:

With the young people getting used to juggle 2 or more jobs, they may well pick up another job or two getting paid under the table. That would be untaxed income. As the grey/black market gets bigger, the effective tax rate on the economy drops.

That's probably why the banks are agitating for stated-income loans again.

4   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (49)   2014 Feb 7, 6:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Record profits are now the norm and the only way to sustain them is for all employees to give back increasing proportions of their wages, and petition for tax reductions on their employers. Unions, in this context, can rightfully be classified as terrorists as any threat to profitability can only bring chaos, riot and, inevitably, CANNIBAL ANARCHY. Victory for Freedom and America is only possible if employees are paying every day for the honor and glory to slave away 20-24 hrs a day in the name of The Christ who gave his life for America and who will hurl us all into hell if anyone should fuck with his holy order and plan for America!

5   Vicente   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 7, 8:56am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Easy, we will start selling our children into slavery. Some of them we'll ship abroad, and expect them to send remittance.

6   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2014 Feb 7, 9:27am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

epitaph says

Can anybody give me a good reason why personal incomes will rise significantly within the next few years? Cause with this level of un/underemployment I don't see how.

If we see full employment in Asia, Central America, and South America, after that, then maybe we will see wage increases in the US.

7   Reality   ignore (5)   2014 Feb 7, 9:30am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

humanity says

Some unions whose members haven't received a raise since 2006 will soon be in collective bargaining, asking for a raise for their members. That's because their members are selfish, and only care about themselves.

Fucking unions have ruined America. Wages should be allowed to effectively drop to slave level, as quickly as possible. Let's get this over with quickly. It's like pulling a bandaid off. Just do it.

Slavery's not as bad as some people make it out to be. And as a bonus, we can still call ourselves free,...okay ?

When people couldn't buy import cars, auto worker unions made the rest of the car-using population into partial slaves/serfs subsidizing the union workers' own over-sized pays.

Nowadays, public employee unions make the rest of the population into partial slaves/serfs paying/subsidizing for the specially privileged class called "public employees."

When the "public employees" become the decider on your medical care, retirement, kids' education, housing, food and clothing, you will be a full-fledged slave, just like plantation slaves of the old having all those things supplied to them "free" according to their "keepers" wishes.

Slavery is not just the inability to negotiate a higher price for your labor, but not being allowed to negotiate a higher price for your own labor.

9   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 7, 2:07pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

It seems to me that there is going to be some re-balancing. The US has been a huge trade deficit country for what 20 or 30 years. Germany and China and Japan have been current account surplus countries during that period. The pendulum has swung as far in the current direction that it can.

It seems to me that we will cause more re-shoring.

Fracking is going to have the US exporting oil as it is projected to produce as much as Saudi Arabia by 2016

The dollar is going to be devalued because of the re-balancing. This also will re shore jobs.

With O care we will see more black market activity. As seen with the 99 week unemployment and 5-10 million additional people on permanent disability. The incentive will be and is not to work.

The US has deflationary pressure because of technology and demographics. Uncle Benny has printed 6 trillion dollars and we still don't see huge inflation.

Some states are not going to be able to service their debt. They will have to go back to their unions and give them a haircut.

10   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2014 Feb 7, 4:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Corporatism is the issue and most of the unskilled workforce, which includes a good percentage of college graduates will never get ahead if all they do is try to find work the easy way and go to work for the man. However the big corporations with all their money, influence and power are too big the respond to many local or smaller scale opportunities. It is time the American people put their minds to local needs, and stop being lazy just looking for a job to punch a clock and do their time. If you have the knowledge skills and time there is a way to increase your earnings and probably your job satisfaction too, by becoming your own boss. It is this kind of innovation and imagination that will result in higher earnings potential. But I agree, unless people wise up and stop putting their time and labor towards the corporatist elite lower standards of living will continue.

11   bob2356   ignore (4)   2014 Feb 7, 8:54pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Reality says

When people couldn't buy import cars, auto worker unions made the rest of the car-using population into partial slaves/serfs subsidizing the union workers' own over-sized pays

Curiosity overwhelms me. When exactly in American history could you not buy import cars? Other than WWII when we were at war with most of the other car manufacturing countries.

Reality says

When the "public employees" become the decider on your medical care, retirement, kids' education, housing, food and clothing,

Your elected officials are the deciders of your medical care, retirement, kid's education, housing, food, and clothing. Public employees are only the implementors of policy. There is a big difference, although I'm pretty sure you can't grasp it. If you don't like what your elected officials have done go out and help elect different ones.

12   bob2356   ignore (4)   2014 Feb 7, 8:56pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Vaticanus says

However the big corporations with all their money, influence and power are too big the respond to many local or smaller scale opportunities. It is time the American people put their minds to local needs, and stop being lazy just looking for a job to punch a clock and do their time. If you have the knowledge skills and time there is a way to increase your earnings and probably your job satisfaction too, by becoming your own boss. It is this kind of innovation and imagination that will result in higher earnings potential

Very nice set of platitudes. What specifically did you have in mind?

13   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2014 Feb 8, 12:32am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Your neighborhood or locale may vary. Mine needs plumbers and welders and drivers to name a few. Yours has needs too I'm sure. My point is that going to work for corporate giants will likely line their pockets on your labor. It is time Americans wise up and take responsibility for their own destiny rather than being owned.

15   upisdown   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 8, 2:29am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Reality says

When people couldn't buy import cars, auto worker unions made the rest of the
car-using population into partial slaves/serfs subsidizing the union workers'
own over-sized pays.


Nowadays, public employee unions make the rest of the population into partial
slaves/serfs paying/subsidizing for the specially privileged class called
"public employees."


When the "public employees" become the decider on your medical care,
retirement, kids' education, housing, food and clothing, you will be a
full-fledged slave, just like plantation slaves of the old having all those
things supplied to them "free" according to their "keepers" wishes

AND then he ends his display of intelligence with this:

Reality says

Slavery is not just the inability to negotiate a higher price for your labor,
but not being allowed to negotiate a higher price for your own labor.

Yea, you be weel smert.

16   Tenpoundbass   ignore (16)   2014 Feb 8, 4:29am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Companies have a sweet deal right now.
They have one segment of the employment staff, who DO work full time, BUT they are working more hours, and taking a salary decrease every year. They are then made to feel they should be lucky that they even have a job. Then there's the lot who only get about 17 hours, at only minimum wage. Companies have replaced many long term full time employees, that were making three times as much. Now they are replaced with these cheap spring loaded wind up drones.

One thing that there is shortage of, and that is willing people fit either one of those descriptions.

Companies will continue to behave like this, until people stop working for them, buying their products, and especially holding their stock in their retirement accounts.

There is better money to be had, but you've got break away from the herd, and do your own thing. Most likely something totally different from what you are doing right now.
One thing is for certain, no body is going to get ahead, working in Corporate America. The era of Corporations portrayed in those 80's movies, where the mail cart pusher works his way up through the ranks to become the VP of marketing has long past.

17   Vicente   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 8, 5:56am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

The era of Corporations portrayed in those 80's movies, where the mail cart pusher works his way up through the ranks to become the VP of marketing has long past.

I watched a documentary about this. It isn't JUST work, you also have to sleep with the right people.

18   John Bailo   ignore (2)   2014 Feb 8, 7:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rising wages?

Probably for same reason house prices are crashing.

World population growth has leveled off.

Industrialized countries facing negative growth.

As long as people can continue to control their gonads, we can make better lives for ourselves and our children.

19   New Renter   ignore (11)   2014 Feb 8, 7:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

John Bailo says

World population growth has leveled off

Its slowed but slowing growth does not equal stagnation or decreasing population. The best guess is 9B by 2043 which is 2B more than today.

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/#growthrate

http://www.census.gov/population/international/data/idb/worldpopgraph.php

20   New Renter   ignore (11)   2014 Feb 8, 7:26am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Vicente says

I watched a documentary about this. It isn't JUST work, you also have to sleep with the right people.

Sleep with your Auntie?

Well I suppose if she's hot enough...

21   John Bailo   ignore (2)   2014 Feb 8, 8:20am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

New Renter says

The best guess is 9B by 2043 which is 2B more than today

I don't know if that's a best guess, or simply a guess. I've seen everything from 10B to a drop to 6B with the decrease starting now.

Even with your high estimate, that's no longer a doubling. And what you see in the emerging markets is:

--Smaller number of children per family
--Increasing domestic consumption

So that means less immigration to the existing first world economies allowing them to digest their current populations into the job market, and at the same time, the 3 big population growth areas: Middle East, Africa, India -- are being brought under control.

22   spydah_hh   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 8, 8:29am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Vaticanus says

Your neighborhood or locale may vary. Mine needs plumbers and welders and drivers to name a few. Yours has needs too I'm sure. My point is that going to work for corporate giants will likely line their pockets on your labor. It is time Americans wise up and take responsibility for their own destiny rather than being owned.

As your comment, the problem isn't so much in corporations but within government. To your your example, to be a plumber you have to go through so many hoops and loops just to be a plumber then a contractor and this does not include the business license assuming you plan to own your business and it also does not include employee costs if you decide to hire any additional people oh yeah don't forget the schooling cost, fees, and paper work either.

http://www.eplumbingcourses.com/plumbing-license/california-plumbing-license/

Needless to say to start a plumbing business it's not as simple as picking up a toolbox or plunger and finding clients like how it use to be over 40-50 years ago.

23   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2014 Feb 8, 8:36am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

spydah_hh says

Needless to say to start a plumbing business it's not as simple as picking up a toolbox or plunger and finding clients like how it use to be over 40-50 years ago.

You pretty much have to work as a plumber for someone else, then take a co-worker or two to make your own company. then deal with all the fucking laws and regulations and figure out how to keep your employees busy. I suspect in some ways Craigslist makes this easy, since you can start out working side jobs for a while until you get comfortable enough to quit.

24   bob2356   ignore (4)   2014 Feb 8, 9:17am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Call it Crazy says

If you can't figure it out, you should just continue to punch the clock while slaving for someone else...

I haven't punched a clock or slaved for someone else in a long time. What's your excuse?

25   bob2356   ignore (4)   2014 Feb 8, 3:12pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Call it Crazy says

bob2356 says

Call it Crazy says

If you can't figure it out, you should just continue to punch the clock while slaving for someone else...

I haven't punched a clock or slaved for someone else in a long time. What's your excuse?

Nice... That 99 weeks extended UE must be working out well for you!!!

Wouldn't know I've never collected UE. Let me know how it works out for you.

26   PeopleUnited   ignore (1)   2014 Feb 8, 9:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Spydah_hh said. "As your comment, the problem isn't so much in corporations but within government. To your your example, to be a plumber you have to go through so many hoops and loops just to be a plumber then a contractor and this does not include the business license assuming you plan to own your business and it also does not include employee costs if you decide to hire any additional people oh yeah don't forget the schooling cost, fees, and paper work either.

http://www.eplumbingcourses.com/plumbing-license/california-plumbing-license/

Needless to say to start a plumbing business it's not as simple as picking up a toolbox or plunger and finding clients like how it use to be over 40-50 years ago."

Spydah: this is true. But, please remember that corporations and other special interests with money, power and influence run the government by proxy using stooges, campaign contributions, control of the media, misinformation, fear and intimidation.

27   Tenpoundbass   ignore (16)   2014 Feb 9, 1:45am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

I'm lucky I got out of flooring when I did, I talk to a friend who still does Carpet. You can't even pick up carpet if you don't have a license, liability insurance, and workman comp insurance.
Back in the day when I was doing carpet, I would go to the Carpet mills and Georgia carpet transport hubs, to meet decorators, mailmen, stay at home moms and all sorts who sold carpet on the side. They didn't have a huge showroom, warehouse, and employee overhead. They sold carpet for a bargain, and still paid me about 33% more than most carpet stores.

Now there are shops that has virtually all of the stores flooring contracts. Such as Home Depot, Sears, Lowe's, and any major Carpet and tile dealer. It is impossible to have a side carpet business where you sell carpet on your mail rounds, or to your neighbors in retirement communities. It's a whole different world, and the supplies, gas and labor costs have quintupled since I got out. And I don't mean inflation adjusted either, I mean the percentage of how much you earn, has quintupled.

It's practically a meager existence now, you get all of the risks and end up making as much as the guy at the warehouse throwing a roll of carpet on your truck. Where as these Carpet shops who contract out the work from these stores, are driving nicer high end cars every year.

28   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 9, 5:18am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

The link Reality made from 0 Hedge and the comment Captain Shuddup made makes me think it is time to ask how is the water we swim in?

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122178211966454607?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB122178211966454607.html

29   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2014 Feb 9, 5:46am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

It's practically a meager existence now, you get all of the risks and end up making as much as the guy at the warehouse throwing a roll of carpet on your truck.

Isn't carpet one of those things where people shop around a lot, making it a low margin business.

30   Tenpoundbass   ignore (16)   2014 Feb 9, 5:54am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

It used to be, those low margin guys aren't around anymore.
It's a big business that is tightly controlled by local licenses, zoning, and insurance, employee and bulk disposal regulations.

In other words it's only something that big shops can afford to do, because the costs, fees, taxes and insurance is already factored in on the cost of doing a protected business. Like most everything else. The only vertical not affected by such hardships is the tech sector. I'm sure they would love to change that.

Other than tech, it's hard to be your own man.

31   spydah_hh   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 9, 6:22am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Vaticanus says

Spydah: this is true. But, please remember that corporations and other special interests with money, power and influence run the government by proxy using stooges, campaign contributions, control of the media, misinformation, fear and intimidation.

True, there are some industries that buyout their politicians but don't generalize it by saying corporations because it's not all. Mostly it's the major banks and oil industries. Really it's only a small few corporations who have setup this system collaborating with the government to kill small business and competition.

Besides the major banks own just about every major company, it is estimated that they all own own about 70% of the U.S. Economy. Hence the to big to fail argument.

However if they were to fail new banks and competition will arise in their place and with that hopefully those government barriers and regulations that were put in place to protect these major banks will fall and we'll grow again like how it was back in the late 1800s early 1900s.

Added: The truth is employers would like to pay their most productive workers more income but a lot of laws and or taxes prevent this from occurring. It's a myth that employers are all out there to control out lives and reap all the profits that workers sow. They don't, corporations are going to pay workers what they're worth not because they earn a lot of profits in a given year. It doesn't make sense to pay someone at an entry level job $15 and hr when the job isn't worth $15 and can be done by basically anyone regardless of skill level. However, they'll be willing to pay a person more (or promote) if that person is more productive than the rest of those who are also at the entry level.

However, this argument doesn't apply for the top greedy big banks :).

32   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Feb 9, 6:42am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

spydah_hh says

True, there are some industries that buyout their politicians but don't generalize it by saying corporations because it's not all. Mostly it's the major banks and oil industries.

That is certainly the case in retail. You see the exact same stores in every city west of the Mississippi. Walmart or equal has taken out the mid level retailers.

But I see this as more an the advantages of economies of scale.

But I would add that I can't help but wonder if this is one of the consequences of not allowing the market to clear.


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions