patrick.net

All things considered...

if you say so.

CaptainShuddup says

All things considered...

if you say so.

Wow, I didn't know it was even possible to be a bigot against fact-based reporting.

Still, this is the perfect example of conservative behavior. I don't like the conclusion, therefore I will launch baseless attacks against the messenger.

I'll start worrying when an Antarctic glacier lands on my head.

For Insurers, No Doubts on Climate Change

When big insurance is making trillions of dollars of adjustments based on the science of climate change, either conservatives have to admit they are liars or they have to say that the free market is wrong about climate change.

So were past the point of no return, why bother to do anything now!

If this plays out well, 15 feet must might put me with some prime beachfront property here in southern cal.

Can we get an older white guy in a suite, ASAP, to explain how this is not a problem?

Talking points should include, but not be limited to:

- "Climate has always changed, one way or another"
- "There is no possible way humans could be responsible for this"
- "Think of the new beachfront property!"
- "The other planets are warming, too"
- "Replacing the species diversity lost in a mass extinction usually takes less than 10 million years!"
- "Not destroying the planet costs jobs"

Iosef V HydroCabron says

"Climate has always changed, one way or another"

The climate has always changed, and neither major party has proposed anything that would stop the climate from changing. Losing yourself in sarcasm does not change those facts.

curious2 says

The climate has always changed, and neither major party has proposed anything that would stop the climate from changing. Losing yourself in sarcasm does not change those facts.

Both parties are exactly the same. Both parties are exactly the same. Both parties are exactly the same. Both parties are exactly the same.

(Am I superior to everyone yet?)

and neither major party has proposed anything that would stop the climate from changing

Bull.

Shit.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/air/the-political-history-of-cap-and-trade-34711212/?no-ist

Now a dead letter, cap and trade was a free-market palliative. It would not have done enough, but it was something.

And, yes, the climate has always changed, but never this fast. Google "Permian Triassic extinction" for an idea of what rapid change might mean, and keep in mind that the rate of change at that time was not, as far as is known, as fast as is occurring now.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

(Am I superior to everyone yet?)

No. Denver is a nice place, go outside and get some fresh air and exercise, and maybe you can overcome your sarcasm addiction.

curious2 says

Iosef V HydroCabron says

"Climate has always changed, one way or another"

The climate has always changed, and neither major party has proposed anything that would stop the climate from changing. Losing yourself in sarcasm does not change those facts.

But remember that for Cabronsito, sarcasm trumps all other arguments.

Inhale Jon Stewart and Rachel Maddows ass gas, and you'll feel the same.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

Can we get an older white guy in a suite, ASAP, to explain how this is not a problem?

Talking points should include, but not be limited to:

- "Climate has always changed, one way or another"

- "There is no possible way humans could be responsible for this"

- "Think of the new beachfront property!"

- "The other planets are warming, too"

- "Replacing the species diversity lost in a mass extinction usually takes less than 10 million years!"

- "Not destroying the planet costs jobs"

How about: "The earth is still colder than the sun. In cosmic terms, we are still relatively lucky?"

Interesting. If this is true, then flat FL and any flat areas will be under water??

Florida is just a mass of loose limestone and peat bog. Maybe it floats.

A lot of Florida, and the Eastern coast, is screwed.

lostand confused says

Interesting. If this is true, then flat FL and any flat areas will be under water??

At 15ft, Lake Okeechobee becomes part of the sea once again and everything south of Deerfield Beach in the east and Cape Coral in the west is underwater. No more Key West.

JFK airport is also underwater. Buh Bye to most of the Netherlands as well. C'est la vie Venice. Alexandria. Ho Chi Min City, Shanghai, New Orleans, parts of London, Oakland (think of how expensive the BA will be!)....

You get the picture.

Was out on a boat off Florida a couple years ago and said to myself while looking back at it, had the ocean been just 10 or 15 feet higher none of this state would be habitable!

No, not happening. It's not convenient for the gluttonous sociopaths/oligarchy, so it's not really happening. Pollution isn't real either. You see, global warming has been happening before, and so has pollution, therefore do whatever makes your life comfortable. What if the scientists happen to be right? That's easy, we will print more earths.

Fox watching nitwits.

casandra says

Was out on a boat off Florida a couple years ago and said to myself while looking back at it, had the ocean been just 10 or 15 feet higher none of this state would be habitable!

What do you think of the Whale Bones found in the California Sierra Mountains ?

Who you gonna blame for that ?

curious2 says

The climate has always changed, and neither major party has proposed anything that would stop the climate from changing. Losing yourself in sarcasm does not change those facts.

The question is do we spend Trillions, abandon our economy for some nonsense boom dongle ineffective projects. No thanks! Pass on that !

Politicized Science is an UGLY thing.

Especially the why these shit heads are handling it.

It's much like the religious advisers for a Pharaoh or Emperor, who nettles in their ear, that their civilization is doomed. Because the stars didn't line up, or the hawk snatching a sparrow from the sky was a sign from the gods, that they would win a battle.

Without an alternative endgame, I personally don't give a fuck what the Liberals or Scientists have to say. They just trying to cash in on some of that ole black magic.

We all know what happens when an asteroid hits the earth, we all know what will happen if the sea level rises and floods every coastal region, we all know what will happen when the temperature rises and changes.

What we don't know, or have any of the foggiest slightest idea, is what in the FUCK (is, can, would) anyone do about it, when that day comes.

Then there's the sheer hypocrisies, with these Greenie bastards, shit like We can't have plastic grocery bags, but the Liberals are the biggest champions of placing a 3D printer in every hand of every man woman and child in America, so we can all just frivolously hit print when we need anything. Play with said object for a few seconds, then toss it unto the discarded 3d printed playthings heap.

WE can't have an indecent light, but it's OK or at least just ignored and never mentioned, that your average living room now has over 5 lighting devices. When it used to be just one light overhead, or two lamps, each with a 120watt light bulb, but most people just turned on one.

We can't have a decent dish soap or bath soap for fear it might put phosphors in the rivers, so we have this pasty waxy do dick-all soap bullshit like. But wander over to the sexy hipster personal hygiene isle, and you'll find liquid body soaps that are so strong, that if just one bottle ever leaked into the Atlantic ocean, it would turn it into the worlds biggest bubble bath.

Starting from King number one hypocrite King Al Gore, all the way down to you lackey wannabe idiots, you're all full of shit. Go play Science somewhere else, and leave the grownups alone, we're trying to live here. Willya!

Dan8267 says

Wow, I didn't know it was even possible to be a bigot against fact-based reporting.

NPR is just another liberal rag.

CaptainShuddup says

WE can't have an indecent light, but it's OK or at least just ignored and
{snip}

We can't have a decent dish soap or bath soap for fear it might put phosphors
in the rivers,

Incandescent bulbs are room heaters with a minor by-product of light.
The problem of phosphorus in water is very real. Are you aware that humans increased the phosphorus content of the GREAT LAKES enough to cause huge algae bloom problems 40 years ago, and mitigation efforts have reduced the levels even in the face of burgeoning human populations in the watershed?
Your post comes off like a geezer whining, "Why can't things stay the way they were when I was young even though the population is soaring and its impact on the planet has increased exponentially in my own lifetime?"

Automan Empire says

Incandescent bulbs are room heaters with a minor by-product of light.

Wait a minute, hold on, time out...

Are you saying that "I" can't have incandescent(indecent) lights because you're worried it might raise the temperature of your room clear across the continent, a few degrees?

CaptainShuddup says

your room clear across the continent

Don't know if trolling, or just thick.

The point being, America can't afford 300 million people using light bulbs that are only 10% efficient, now that far more efficient alternatives are available.

Incandescents remain great for chick brooders, or a rural outhouse where one's ass might literally freeze to the seat without an incandescent bulb burning there.

CaptainShuddup says

It's much like the religious advisers for a Pharaoh or Emperor, who nettles in their ear, that their civilization is doomed. Because the stars didn't line up, or the hawk snatching a sparrow from the sky was a sign from the gods, that they would win a battle.

Or in the case of climate change, because the same science that got us to the moon provides overwhelming physical and verifiable evidence and the same people who got us to the moon, NASA, confirms this science.

http://climate.nasa.gov/

It's amazing how deluded the conservative fantasy world is.

curious2 says

and neither major party has proposed anything that would stop the climate from changing.

Not only have many people in both major parties supported cap-and-trade applied to carbon emissions, but there are Republican supporters of carbon taxes, including Bob Inglis (former congressman from SC), Douglas Holtz-Eakin (McCain's economic adviser), Arthur Laffer, Gary Becker, Newt Gingrich, and George Schultz.

Dan8267 says

and the same people who got us to the moon, NASA, confirms this science

It will now be necessary to either (a) dismiss NASA as being part of a conspiracy, or (b) assert that the moon landings were faked, too.

The libertarian orthodoxy of denial on climate is not to be questioned. Only the Bible is held as a higher authority.

And this is not sarcasm by any stretch of the definition of the word.

zzyzzx says

NPR is just another liberal rag.

Conservatives are so delusional they think that any source of information that isn't spoon-fed talking points by the Republican leaders is a "liberal rag".

You cannot get more unbiased, fact-based reporting than NPR and PBS. Yeah, these news agencies may be boring as fuck because they don't sensationalize, but that's the point. On Point, Topical Currents, and The Diane Rehm Show are such exemplary examples of objective, rational reporting that any rational person would conclude that someone who calls them liberal propaganda is simply a delusional extremist, lying, or both.

dodgerfanjohn says

But remember that for Cabronsito, sarcasm trumps all other arguments.

It's okay: many people can't tell when a deadpan recitation of right-wing beliefs is serious or not. This makes conservatives easy targets of sarcastic mockery.

You seem to have more trouble than most. Why don't you go have a good cry about it?

Iosef V HydroCabron says

It will now be necessary to either (a) dismiss NASA as being part of a conspiracy, or (b) assert that the moon landings were faked, too.

Well, the moon is clearly liberally biased because it provides light to all (SOCIALISM!) and it does so in the dark of night (HAND OUTS!). So the moon landing must be fake liberal propaganda. We all know that the only way to get to the moon is through prayer and faith.

There's no way you could put a man on the moon and get him back using rockets. After all, rockets are weapons that deliver explosives to targets. Anyone you send up on a rocket would get blown up. And I'm scientifically literate because I watch Fox News, fair and balance, says so right in their logo.

http://www.ShjTbghQGcU

zzyzzx says

NPR is just another liberal rag.

Its at least real news and not right-wing entertainment, classified as political satire and hence not actually news...

CaptainShuddup says

gas gas harrumph harrumph We all know what happens when an asteroid hits the earth, we all know what will happen if the sea level rises and floods every coastal region, we all know what will happen when the temperature rises and changes.

What we don't know, or have any of the foggiest slightest idea, is what in the FUCK (is, can, would) anyone do about it, when that day comes.

Then there's the sheer hypocrisies, with these Greenie bastards, shit like We can't have plastic grocery bags blah blah snort gas harrumph...

How many electrons died to spread that rant? What a waste.

Keep this up and I may become an electron hugger - a particle rights activist!

Iosef V HydroCabron says

curious2 says

and neither major party has proposed anything that would stop the climate from changing.

Not only have many people in both major parties supported cap-and-trade applied to carbon emissions, but there are Republican supporters of carbon taxes, including Bob Inglis (former congressman from SC), Douglas Holtz-Eakin (McCain's economic adviser), Arthur Laffer, Gary Becker, Newt Gingrich, and George Schultz.

I do not know what to make of that comment. On the one hand, it doesn't seem sarcastic, but on the other hand, I haven't seen anyone anywhere seriously contend that any of those policies would stop the climate from changing. Also, if one is going to appeal to authority, I would not have expected Newt Gingrich. I guess I would have to ask, given that list, can you cite any instance where any of them has ever claimed those policies would stop the climate from changing?

curious2 says

I guess I would have to ask, given that list, can you cite any instance where
any of them has ever claimed those policies would stop the climate from
changing?

I can't speak for those peoples' claims across time, but to me it's obvious that cap and trade and carbon taxes incentivize switching to lower CO2 emitting energy sources and processes. It's a market solution; a user fee if you will. Very treasured concept by free market advocates such as libertarians and many Republicans. Very conservative too; putting one's great grandchildrens' and one's own genes' long-term needs ahead of short-term gains with great future costs.

Dan8267 says

You cannot get more unbiased, fact-based reporting than NPR and PBS. Yeah, these
news agencies may be boring as fuck because they don't sensationalize, but
that's the point.

I agree with their objectivity, but find their delivery, especially NPR, unlistenably dry on top of boring as fuck. One or two minutes in, I find myself thinking, SNOOOOOORRE!
They don't need to sensationalize, but FFS the presentation and production values can't be at least state of the art, if not pushing the envelope a bit? I mean, where is the big "Hollywood Left" that the right always speaks of? The artists, writers, producers, actors, choreographers, musicians, directors, scintillating journalists, sound and voice experts? NPR seems to go out of their way to make their material sound like it has no part of "the Hollywood Left."

Can't believe I have to explain this, but the climate will always change, and will never stop doing so. You are not clever for knowing this.

The usual gradual change rubs out some species, allowing others to arise and food chains to be preserved, albeit with different links in those chains. No big deal.

Rapid, Permian-Triassic type change, however, wipes out 80% of species and seriously threatens the existence of all complex life forms, because if most of the things you eat have nothing to eat, then YOU have nothing to eat, and you die. Some paleontologists believe that the Permian-Triassic extinction nearly ended all life on Earth. It took 10-20 million years to rebuild the biodiversity.

You don't get food at King Soopers. You get it from fields that billions of animals and plants have excreted and died on (or from petroleum-based nitrogen-rich fertilizers, which is much the same thing), or from animals who ate other animals who ate other animals who ate vegetation.

The indications are that we are headed for an extinction more severe than the Permian-Triassic. Humans are pretty resourceful, and will probably ride it out, but in severely-reduced numbers. Or not. And once the human race is gone, that's it for intelligent (ha ha) life around here, because the Earth will be sterile in about 500 million years anyway - not enough time to get lucky with primate evolution again.

Probably the only hope would have been a radical rethink of transportation and technology. I doubt it would have worked, given the size of the population.

But this does not mean that both sides are equally to blame because they bickered; sentient people of different ideologies proposed means which would mitigate this, but the coal and petroleum industries first spread lies that it wasn't even happening, and then that it wasn't manmade. They lied, and if you bought their bullshit then you are a dope.

Dan8267 says

Or in the case of climate change, because the same science that got us to the moon provides overwhelming physical and verifiable evidence and the same people who got us to the moon, NASA, confirms this science.

As long as you are bringing up NASA:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98168
Images Show Mars Has Extreme Global Warming

It might seem like the weather's getting warmer here on Earth, but Mars appears to have an even bigger global warming problem.

High-resolution images snapped by NASA's Mars Global Surveyor show that levels of frozen water and carbon dioxide at the Red Planet's poles have dwindled dramatically — by more than 10 feet — over a single Martian year (equivalent to 687 days or about two Earth years).

Touring Mars in a Parka?

Michael Caplinger of San Diego's Malin Space Science Systems points out that if the warming were to continue at the same rate (that's a big "if"), Mars could become a nearly inhabitable place for people within 5,000 years or so.

"Rather than wearing a spacesuit, you could get away with wearing just an oxygen mask and a thick parka," said Caplinger, who co-authored a study about the observations in this week's issue of Science. "It would be like standing on top of Everest."

The change in climate could also support the presence of more liquid water on Mars.

The evidence came by monitoring icy pits, ridges and mounds at Mars' south pole at the start and end of a Martian year. By comparing images in 1998 and 2001, the team noticed a dramatic widening of pits in the frozen mass and a shrinking of the mounds and ridges. The images were captured and relayed by NASA's robotic orbiter, the Surveyer, which was launched in 1996 and began orbiting Mars in 1997.

"We weren't expecting to see something nearly this large," said Caplinger.

Dan8267 says

Conservatives are so delusional they think that any source of information that isn't spoon-fed talking points by the Republican leaders is a "liberal rag".

Liberals are so delusional they think that any source of information that isn't spoon-fed talking points by the Democrat leaders is "faux news".

I'm not a liberal by any of Pat.net's standards, and I was a science major. Politics should play absolutely no part in this issue. Global warming is real, and we are expediting it. Evolution is also real, but the same types argued against that, and people were jailed and fined for their beliefs. At least we don't live back in the day where the scientists got put to death for believing in gravity. This tug of war between science and society is as old as civilization, but we must find a compromise this time.

For example: We shouldn't be forced not to use plastic bags, we should WANT to use reusable bags and choose that option as good citizens of an educated Republic. I have always used reusable bags, but I was still a little unnerved about the law that took away choice.

I believe in liberty, but it's selfish idiots that undermine liberty, because people feel the ignorant and selfish majority can't be trusted to make good choices for humanity or their country, and in most cases they would be right. So that's really the tough question: How do we find the balance between liberty and a free market and keeping the idiots from destroying the planet and humanity?

When will we take climate change seriously? When affects the uber-wealthy of course. When their timber or agriculture holdings are in jeopardy,condo developments on the beach flood,etc. This has always been the way..those with the gold make the rules.

In the long run though nature bats last and our wholesale destruction of planets will eventually catch up with us....maybe not in my lifetime but...

Automan Empire says

I agree with their objectivity, but find their delivery, especially NPR, unlistenably dry on top of boring as fuck.

Of course! That's how you know they are objective. News is supposed to be boring when done right. Same for accounting. If you find either exciting, it's not being done right. News is essentially accounting of world events.