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Rew
2014 Oct 3, 9:53am
Obama should be doing more here. He should look to Reagan's massive, lightning-fast response to AIDS.
Or he could appoint a responsible conservative to handle this: someone highly constitutional, who doesn't believe in evolution, would be a perfect choice to contain a viral outbreak.
What is is with your fixation on "conservative" politicians? Sure they fucked up many things, yes, yes, yes. Now let's move on and acknowledge that this situation was severely mishandled. How the nurses did not get trained when it was clear that this was a much bigger outbreak, the missing hazmat suits, sending the patient back despite travel history and symptoms? Even your progressive leader can and does fuck things up - and this was a quite severe screw-up! When the next conservative bozo is in office again, then you can complain about their screw-ups..
Mell, the secret is everyone is always unprepared for the first case, it's what you do after that matters. Read "The Hot Zone".
HydroCabron
2014 Oct 3, 10:04am
Even your progressive leader can and does fuck things up - and this was a quite severe screw-up!
Obama should be in jail, but for other things, like the bank bailout and the powers of the NSA.
You sure seem to favor presidential involvement in the administration of every hospital, down to the last podunk emergency room in buttfuck, Oklahoma. Two observations: that sounds like big government to me; and that sounds like it wouldn't work, anyway.
The only problem I have with conservative criticism of Obama on this issue is that it comes from people who believe, or routinely vote for people who claim to believe, that the world began 10,000 years ago, that science and mathematics are useless unless they "prove" the Fed is bad or that minorities are inferior, and that tax cuts do everything short of curing cancer.
To put it bluntly, the people doing much of the criticizing should shut up and have a seat over there. We gave them a chance to run things between 2001 and 2009, and implemented many of their pet policies between 1981 and the present, and it has not gone well for us.
And, by their complete hysteria on this issue, which reminds me of the collective conservative urine release over Saddam's WMD's in 2003, they remind me why they're useless for anything but comedy.
I doubt ebola is much of a threat. It's not ebola that's the problem: it's conservatives and liberals who live on fear, thrive on fear, and can't weigh risk appropriately. For some reason, possibly mistrust of the Kenyan usurper in the White House, many conservatives are choosing the path of idiotic panic here.
Even if this kills 500 people in the United States, it's a miniscule threat to public health compared to other problems which conservatives refuse to examine. The same conservatives who tell us that the government can't do anything right expect us to save them from non-existent threats. The same conservatives who tell us that Benghazi is among the greatest scandals in American history. The same conservatives who want poor people to rely on the emergency room instead of health insurance or Medicaid - a policy which increases the risk of disease for all of us.
Did the hospital fuck up? Yes. Would a fuck-up have been less likely if Obama had personally visited admitting nurses last month and warned them to be wary? Yes. Are there other threats to the United States which are more worthy of Obama's time and energy? Yes - hundreds of them.
I expect competence from my doctor, my auto mechanic, and my HVAC repair professional: slip-ups from any of them can get me and others killed. I do not, however, hold Obama (or Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush II) responsible for training them. This is because, unlike conservative authoritarians, I do not believe in big daddy strong father central government.
Flu will kill around 54,000 people in the United States this year. If ebola gets out of hand, it will likely kill fewer than 1,000.
Sorry, but since WMD's, I really don't trust the judgments of bible-thumper neocon-libertoonian shitheads on any issue of public importance.
If Bush were in office, you'd be using phrases like "blame game" right now to defend him.
Rew
2014 Oct 3, 10:24am
Did the hospital fuck up? Yes. Would a fuck-up have been less likely if Obama had personally visited admitting nurses last month and warned them to be wary? Yes. Are there other threats to the United States which are more worthy of Obama's time and energy? Yes - hundreds of them.
Maybe we should divert some of that spending from defense and get more serious about health care ... ooops! Too late!
Flu will kill around 54,000 people in the United States this year. If ebola gets out of hand, it will likely kill fewer than 1,000.
Sorry, but since WMD's, I really don't trust the judgments of bible-thumper neocon-libertoonian shitheads on any issue of public importance.
If Bush were in office, you'd be using phrases like "blame game" right now to defend him.
Preach on. Can I get an amen!
The only problem I have with conservative criticism of Obama on this issue is that it comes from people who believe, or routinely vote for people who claim to believe, that the world began 10,000 years ago, that science and mathematics are useless unless they "prove" the Fed is bad or that minorities are inferior, and that tax cuts do everything short of curing cancer.
The above paragraph makes you a 100% dishonest partisan hack, and dilutes any any other valid points you might have had. I wish I had used worse words to describe it. It is clear you are not interested in a constructive discussion.
You sure seem to favor presidential involvement in the administration of every hospital, down to the last podunk emergency room in buttfuck, Oklahoma. Two observations: that sounds like big government to me; and that sounds like it wouldn't work, anyway.
Don't see anyone has ever recommended it.
Maybe we should divert some of that spending from defense and get more serious about health care ... ooops! Too late!
How do you think it should be done?
indigenous
2014 Oct 3, 10:53am
Regarding the longevity of viruses, if they are not alive in the first place how can they be dead? i.e. not be a future threat?
Obama should be in jail, but for other things, like the bank bailout and the powers of the NSA.
Agreed.
You sure seem to favor presidential involvement in the administration of every hospital, down to the last podunk emergency room in buttfuck, Oklahoma. Two observations: that sounds like big government to me; and that sounds like it wouldn't work, anyway.
True, but I advocate limited powers for the government in important areas, such as war (on countries not invisible enemies), police, pandemics, response to fire and other disasters, pollution etc. A lot of Libertarians do, they are no anarchists.
The only problem I have with conservative criticism of Obama on this issue is that it comes from people who believe, or routinely vote for people who claim to believe, that the world began 10,000 years ago, that science and mathematics are useless unless they "prove" the Fed is bad or that minorities are inferior, and that tax cuts do everything short of curing cancer.
Fair point. I would have favored a levy on the 0 - 1% as a temporary measure.
To put it bluntly, the people doing much of the criticizing should shut up and have a seat over there. We gave them a chance to run things between 2001 and 2009, and implemented many of their pet policies between 1981 and the present, and it has not gone well for us.
Agreed, Bush administration was mostly a disaster.
I doubt ebola is much of a threat. It's not ebola that's the problem: it's conservatives and liberals who live on fear, thrive on fear, and can't weigh risk appropriately. For some reason, possibly mistrust of the Kenyan usurper in the White House, many conservatives are choosing the path of idiotic panic here.
Even if this kills 500 people in the United States, it's a miniscule threat to public health compared to other problems which conservatives refuse to examine.
The problem is you have no margin of error that's acceptable if you're wrong with such as disease, esp. if it mutates into an airborne version, and it has been mutating like crazy. This is not a left vs right thing IMO.
Flu will kill around 54,000 people in the United States this year. If ebola gets out of hand, it will likely kill fewer than 1,000.
Likely so, but you cannot compare the consequences of spreading flu to spreading ebola, unless you talk about a variant like a the pandemic flu we haven't seen in a long while.
If Bush were in office, you'd be using phrases like "blame game" right now to defend him.
Doubtful, I still think Bush was worse than Obama, but Obama has been closing in to a point where the differences become less significant. The biggest difference for me is the number of deaths during the Iraq war. but it is very hard to estimate a number for the current administration since they meddle and support everywhere. The Ukraine situation is becoming comparable to the Iraq fiasco, not in numbers yet, but we aren't done yet. Then there is Syria etc. Not looking good.
Rew
2014 Oct 3, 10:59am
Maybe we should divert some of that spending from defense and get more serious about health care ... ooops! Too late!
How do you think it should be done?
Looks pretty impossible with current congressional make up and when we have a population which posts things like: "Death to Obamacare, Ebola isn't covered!" on the internet.
It's kind of stunning that people can, in the same breath, criticize the national response and then attack potential roads to reform and progress.
Rew
2014 Oct 3, 11:02am
Regarding the longevity of viruses, if they are not alive in the first place how can they be dead? i.e. not be a future threat?
Denatured, rendered inert, destroyed : if you want to quibble about the accuracy of "live virus" since viruses are often put in the "it's not really alive" grey zone. If that's not your angle, please clarify your question/re-phrase.
Rew
2014 Oct 3, 11:05am
if it mutates into an airborne version, and it has been mutating like crazy.
Support for that claim? I cannot remember where but I thought this one was 90+% same as the plane-jane 60s Ebola we all know and love.
Looks pretty impossible with current congressional make up and when we have a population which posts things like: "Death to Obamacare, Ebola isn't covered!" on the internet.
Do you think Obamcare was the right approach to handle the healthcare in the country? Ignore Ebola while answering this one.
It's kind of stunning that people can, in the same breath, criticize the national response and then attack potential roads to reform and progress.
I think you are confusing between a sustainable way of improving healthcare system in the country versus a rapid response required in time of an emergency.
As far as I can tell, you like a national healthcare system or a version of obamacare, but do not like national response to a pandemic like Ebola.
if it mutates into an airborne version, and it has been mutating like crazy.
Support for that claim? I cannot remember where but I thought this one was 90+% same as the plane-jane 60s Ebola we all know and love.
Note that it hasn't officially become airborne, but the more it exchanges (different kind of) hosts, the more it usually mutates.
indigenous
2014 Oct 3, 11:47am
Denatured, rendered inert, destroyed : if you want to quibble about the accuracy of "live virus" since viruses are often put in the "it's not really alive" grey zone. If that's not your angle, please clarify your question/re-phrase.
I know nothing about this. If it is not alive, how is it rendered harmless?
Rew
2014 Oct 3, 12:16pm
Denatured, rendered inert, destroyed : if you want to quibble about the accuracy of "live virus" since viruses are often put in the "it's not really alive" grey zone. If that's not your angle, please clarify your question/re-phrase.
I know nothing about this. If it is not alive, how is it rendered harmless?
The physical properties of the virus, the material it is made of, are dissolved, dispersed, broken up, so it is no longer in "Ebola" form. It cannot attach to, be consumed by, and replicated by the cells in your body. It ceases to be a virus. It is just biologic trash, dust, dirt, matter ...
indigenous
2014 Oct 3, 12:18pm
The physical properties of the virus, the material it is made of, are dissolved, dispersed, broken up, so it is no longer in "Ebola" form.
Is this done by the antibodies in the survivors blood?
Rew
2014 Oct 3, 12:25pm
if it mutates into an airborne version, and it has been mutating like crazy.
Support for that claim? I cannot remember where but I thought this one was 90+% same as the plane-jane 60s Ebola we all know and love.
Note that it hasn't officially become airborne, but the more it exchanges (different kind of) hosts, the more it usually mutates.
Cool article. Thanks.
Ebola could also mutate and become non-lethal. ;)
Rew
2014 Oct 3, 12:30pm
Do you think Obamcare was the right approach to handle the healthcare in the country? Ignore Ebola while answering this one.
I think you are confusing between a sustainable way of improving healthcare system in the country versus a rapid response required in time of an emergency.
As far as I can tell, you like a national healthcare system or a version of obamacare, but do not like national response to a pandemic like Ebola.
Right or wrong is the wrong way to think about Obamacare. It was something, anything, in the step toward healthcare reform. No, I am not a fan, but the opposition failed to present any alternatives and shape what we have today to be anything better. So, it is here, let's continue to work on it.
With Obamacare I was just happy we had healthcare on the table and were doing anything in that space. You are correct, a national rapid response to pandemic and nationalize healthcare aren't strongly linked ... but we are talking about the right species at-least ... and honestly ... before we talk about pandemic response ... there are far greater issues of urgency for the nation. Even with 1 case of Ebola in Dallas, and likely more coming.
Rew
2014 Oct 3, 12:33pm
The physical properties of the virus, the material it is made of, are dissolved, dispersed, broken up, so it is no longer in "Ebola" form.
Is this done by the antibodies in the survivors blood?
It's done by physically damaging the virus which can be : uv light, oxygen, water, drying out, heat, chemical disinfectants, and yes ... immune response. Ebola hits really fast, so typically, our immune response is too slow to fight it off. We die of massive systemic wide organ failure, and lack of blood pressure to feed our vitals. We essentially die of internal bleeding.
indigenous
2014 Oct 3, 12:36pm
It's done by physically damaging the virus which can be : uv light, oxygen, water, drying out, heat, chemical disinfectants, and yes ... immune response. Ebola hits really fast, so typically, our immune response is too slow to fight it off. We die of massive systemic wide organ failure, and lack of blood pressure to feed our vitals. We essentially die of internal bleeding.
Thanks
Vicente
2014 Oct 3, 12:42pm
there isn't a single person reading posts on Patnet today that can say what the outcome of the Ebola situation will be.
I can. I'll even put money on it. You?
The response to the first case of ebola in the US was less than inspiring. The second case will likely be very different. I don't see ebola becoming a major threat, with one qualifier. If ebola victims are contagious before they show symptoms, then the spread of the disease is a major threat.
Ebola can't survive 5 days laying on the sidewalk in the dallas sun or 1 day for that matter.
How long does Ebola live outside the body?
Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.
Temperature in Dallas right now is 75 degrees.
and exactly how does one keep vomit on the sidewalk liquid for 5 days genius? after it dries up we are back to your own quote about several hours.
How come you left out the second part of the paragraph that says uv light and oxygen kill ebola? Of course there's certainly no uv light or oxygen in dallas that I know of.
you're starting to sound like bigmouth arguing about 9/11.
Y
2014 Oct 3, 1:09pm
the bees suck it up and regurgitate it as flavored honey.
Why do you think they are all missing??
Temperature in Dallas right now is 75 degrees.
and exactly how does one keep vomit on the sidewalk liquid for 5 days genius?
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 3, 1:16pm
and exactly how does one keep vomit on the sidewalk liquid for 5 days genius? after it dries up we are back to your own quote about several hours.
How do you know that hot chick from 201 didn't walk her Schnauzer, and he licked it while it was still wet? Meanwhile she was on the cell phone handlin' some bidness(I was going to go young professional, maybe a realtor trying to close a house perhaps, but then I remembered they were in the hood), and didn't notice that her dog was mawing down Dried Codfish and rice puke chunks .
So she welcomed his doggy kisses when she got home and the dog licked her mouth?
What the fuck are you talking about? Who said it was on the sidewalk for 5 days?
The guy threw up on sunday. The powerwash picture was taken thursday. Sorry 4 days. I'm on the other side of the date line this month, easy to lose track.
How do you keep vomit liquid 4 days laying on a sidewalk in dallas? How does everyone that lives and works at the apartment complex as well as the cdc guys sent down help contain the virus manage to ignore the most famous vomit in the universe for 4 days? It's not like it wasn't on every tv, radio, twitter, internet, newspaper, smoke signals whatever 24/7 all week. Then after ignoring it for 4 days they sent out a crew to powerwash it? You really actually believe that?
Huh?? Bob, are you drinking heavily again?
No the how long does ebola live outside the body quote you've been throwing around time after time has a second paragraph you always leave off. At least the version I saw does.
So supposing everyone involved managed to actually ignore the most famous vomit in history, do you think after 4 days of exposure to uv and oxygen (yes there is uv and oxygen in dallas, that part was something called sarcasm, look it up) in a dried up pool of vomit ebola was still alive?
You probably would actually.
How do you know that hot chick from 201 didn't walk her Schnauzer, and he licked it while it was still wet? Meanwhile she was on the cell phone handlin' some bidness(I was going to go young professional, maybe a realtor trying to close a house perhaps, but then I remembered they were in the hood).
Then when she got home the dog licked her mouth while she was petting it?
That's at least as plausible as anything else you've ever written. Much more plausible than anything I've ever seen CIC write.
You forgot the part where she was actually an alien.
Vicente
2014 Oct 3, 1:26pm
How do you keep vomit liquid 4 days laying on a sidewalk in dallas?
Errrp!
Sorry that was my vomit. I am an infectious disease groupie, I had to fly into Dallas and mingle. For some reason on my way out I needed to do a big technicolor yawn. Sorry!
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 3, 1:29pm
To Vicent's point Flies are Vomit groupies, and their feet will pick up Obala then carry it off and land on someone's fried Chicken.
But that's even less plausible, everyone know's flies don't spread diseases.
Vicente
2014 Oct 3, 2:36pm
To Vicent's point Flies are Vomit groupies, and their feet will pick up Obala then carry it off and land on someone's fried Chicken.
I am very disappointed. I rolled around in their dumpster. No bleeding from any orifices yet. I was really hoping to spread Ebola enthusiastically through NorCal. Go to local parks find soccer games and high-five the teams, coaches and parents. Go to the buffet bar at local restaurants lean up under the hood and cough up some nice bloody sputum all over the food. I will keep y'all posted, I am feeling a little peaked so maybe my dream of being an agent of Survival of the Fittest will pan out after all.
indigenous
2014 Oct 3, 2:42pm
I am very disappointed. I rolled around in their dumpster. No bleeding from any orifices yet. I was really hoping to spread Ebola enthusiastically through NorCal. Go to local parks find soccer games and high-five the teams, coaches and parents. Go to the buffet bar at local restaurants lean up under the hood and cough up some nice bloody sputum all over the food. I will keep y'all posted, I am feeling a little peaked so maybe my dream of being an agent of Survival of the Fittest will pan out after all.
Tell me this mutt ain't a dope smoker...
Germany is currently treating their 2nd Ebola patient. The first one was treated in August and fully recovered. Let's hope this one recovers as well, they seem to be confident that they can cure this one as well with 24/7 treatment. They seem to be better prepared and educated. However these patients were flown in from Africa, i.e. didn't develop it inside the country.
Vicente
2014 Oct 3, 3:22pm
Tell me this mutt ain't a dope smoker...
Smoking of any type is DISGUSTING. I suppose if Sofia Vergara offered to share a cigar with me, I'd pretend to puff on it so I could ogle.
But I wouldn't inhale anything except her.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 3, 3:40pm
I think the biggest problem in America right now, is the people smoking dope probably shouldn't, and those that don't, could definitely use some.
indigenous
2014 Oct 3, 3:44pm
and those that don't, could definitely use some.
But the reason they could probably use some is because of the dope smokers.
Right or wrong is the wrong way to think about Obamacare. It was something, anything, in the step toward healthcare reform. No, I am not a fan, but the opposition failed to present any alternatives and shape what we have today to be anything better. So, it is here, let's continue to work on it.
The opposition is a controlled one. They never really cared about the real solution.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/what-if-you-don-t-sign-up-for-obamacare-161218692.html
and honestly ... before we talk about pandemic response ... there are far greater issues of urgency for the nation. Even with 1 case of Ebola in Dallas, and likely more coming
Agree to disagree. I don't know if you have kids in school or daycare. I do. I don't care about myself catching it. But I do care about them. In fact, I don't want to see any kid in the country becoming just statistics because of callousness of a few individuals.
Rew
2014 Oct 4, 1:11am
Agree to disagree. I don't know if you have kids in school or daycare. I do. I don't care about myself catching it. But I do care about them. In fact, I don't want to see any kid in the country becoming just statistics because of callousness of a few individuals.
I don't desire anyone getting ill either, but the risks are so remote, with regards to Ebola in the US right now.
People can worry about it. Sure. And people are also worrying about enterovirus already spreading pretty rapidly across the country, or a thousand other much more likely communicable diseases for your little ones to pick up.
I have a three year old in pre-school/day care as well. Funnily enough he is ill this week with a typical cold. Missed going to school Friday.
I'm not losing any sleep over any of this, and I think the chances of Ebola getting to someplace significantly bad in the US are so far remote that I'm not going to be losing any sleep over it anytime soon.
I think it's fine to keep one eye on the news, but I also realize the agendas and general propensity to sell a big load of sensationalism out there. The last time we were close to this level of fear was with this incident ...
... which was so far overblown and self induced "panic". That one really just got sad. (One of my family members was so worried they were almost going to make purchases of iodine and meds off the internet. I had to talk them down.)
Don't let your "lizard brain" and "fears" get the better of you. Ebola, psychologically, is extremely potent in the US (and on the internet), but the actual health risks/contracting it are close to nil for you and I. It also has amazingly good odds to remain that way, indefinitely.
HydroCabron
2014 Oct 4, 7:15am
There are other viruses that are contagious before symptoms show. The experts claim that Ebola isn't until symptoms show. Since the incubation can be a week or two, and the infection is growing all this time, you would think the infected person could be contagious before symptoms show.
Wow. That's some cutting-edge virological research there. Large sample, high-correlation, with solid t-values. Publish that in Nature!
Just goes to show that these issues are best left to the folks who proved conclusively that Saddam had WMDs and saw a Romney victory through those skewed polls.
This is turning into one of my favorite right-wing morongasms.
BTW, what happened to the "Obama plays golf" outrage?
There are other viruses that are contagious before symptoms show. The experts claim that Ebola isn't until symptoms show. Since the incubation can be a week or two, and the infection is growing all this time, you would think the infected person could be contagious before symptoms show.
Wow. That's some cutting-edge virological research there. Large sample, high-correlation, with solid t-values. Publish that in Nature!
Just goes to show that these issues are best left to the folks who proved conclusively that Saddam had WMDs and saw a Romney victory through those skewed polls.
This is turning into one of my favorite right-wing morongasms.
BTW, what happened to the "Obama plays golf" outrage?
He's right, you can google the relevant recent studies yourself.
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While you dorks worry about Federal Reserve or the price of milk....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/20/ebola-west-africa_n_5515140.html