patrick.net

First of all none of your quotes are Bill Maher's

Dan8267 says

It seeks to increase greater access of affordable, quality health care through state exchanges that provide more affordable choices for individuals to buy insurance on the private market.

Yet is delivers insurance for most who then have a $6000.00 deductible. Who will then be forced to not pay the hospital bill because they are medically indigent. Not to mention Obama stating that if you like your plan you can keep it, total lie.

Dan8267 says

Medicine will be a government run entity – doctors will be employed by the government and care will be paid for by the government.

All of the doctors will be employed by the government, but insurance companies will still exist.

The government will dictate what doctors can and cannot do.

The government will make it so onerous to practice medicine that everyone will quit.

It seems to me for practical purposes this IS what has happened with medicare. Given the trajectory of ALL government programs the ACA will follow suit.

Dan8267 says

The Affordable Care Act creates exchanges in which consumers can purchase health insurance that will be managed and operated by private health insurers.

Except many people's plans were cancelled as not complying with fed mandates. The mandates were absurd and extreme. E.G. pregnancy coverage for everyone.

Dan8267 says

Employers will continue to provide health insurance to the majority of Americans through private insurance companies.

We will see but if it is less expensive for the companies to change insurers to one that relies more on the government they will. Not to mention the ones with less than 50 employees.

Dan8267 says

The government will not seize control of hospitals or nationalize doctors.

That is not how they work they regulate them into submission.

Dan8267 says

The law does not include the public option, a government-run insurance plan that would have competed with private insurers.

IOW cronyism

Dan8267 says

The law gives tax credits to people who have difficulty affording insurance, so they can buy their coverage from private providers on the exchange.

Yet still with a $6000 deductible.

Dan8267 says

But here too, the approach relies on a free market with regulations, not socialized medicine.

Socialized regulated into a malleable condition what is the difference?

Not that you quoted Maher but I still disproved all of your proclamations.

SoftShell says

OTOH, what if Dan and CIC are the same person, setting each other up for the kill, depending on which Shirley Mason was typing?

I think you and I might be the same person. Our names are both compound words. Wait! Did you just say that or was that me?

We can't be....you're paying patrick's electric bill while I'm leeching electrons!!

indigenous says

First of all none of your quotes are Bill Maher's

Irrelevant. He does say the same thing, but he's not here to debate you. The point is that your "criticism" -- and I use that term loosely -- of his statement that the ACA is not a government takeover is not valid.

indigenous says

Yet is delivers

Your statement is irrelevant because...

individuals to buy insurance on the private market

That's why it's not a government take-over.

indigenous says

It seems to me for practical purposes this IS what has happened with medicare. Given the trajectory of ALL government programs the ACA will follow suit.

You are speculating on what might happen in the future and your speculations have no basis in reality. The fact is that none of the republican's predictions have come true. They have all been debunked thoroughly by the swift hand of history.

indigenous says

Except many people's plans were cancelled as not complying with fed mandates.

Plans that were exceptionally bad were invalidated. Whether or not your opinion of this is positive or negative is irrelevant. It's still nothing even remotely close to a government takeover. Therefore, Bill Maher was correct.

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

Employers will continue to provide health insurance to the majority of Americans through private insurance companies.

We will see but if it is less expensive

Again, you are deliberately changing the subject to hide the fact that you have not address the one issue you were suppose to after throwing down the gauntlet.

I don't give a damn about your bitching about how much you dislike the ACA. The issue is whether or not Bill Maher was a comedic hack when he said Republicans continue to lie about the ACA being a government take-over of the health care system. So far, you have not even attempt to address that issue.

indigenous says

That is not how they work they regulate them into submission.

Ditto

indigenous says

IOW cronyism

Ditto

indigenous says

Yet still with a $6000 deductible.

Ditto

Let's get back to the issue at hand.

indigenous says

Give me one point he makes and I will demonstrate (to a normal person) what a mutt he is.

Dan8267 says

The Republicans said that Obamacare was a government takeover. In reality, the insurance industry is making record profits.

Round 1: Indigenous makes a lame, unsupported case that the ACA really is a government takeover. So the republicans are right to say that.

Dan counters by showing exactly why it's not with ample references.

Round 2: Indigenous blames Dan for not quoting Bill Maher in his response, as if Bill Maher knew while recording his show that some troll name Indigenous on Patrick.net would be making lame assertions that the government is taking over health care.

Then Indigenous bitches about particular things he doesn't like about the ACA. Whether or not his gripes have merit is irrelevant as they have nothing to do with the question of whether or not the ACA is a government takeover of health care.

Dan explains that.

That brings us to now.

I'll end this post by showing Indigenous what a real government take over of the heath care system would mean.
1. No private insurance companies.
2. No private hospitals or clinics.
3. All doctors are employees of the federal government.
4. The federal government sets the prices for health care.
5. The federal government sets the salary for doctors.
6. Insurance is no longer provided by your employer for anyone.
7. All insurance payments and all medical bills go directly to the government.
8. Your tax dollars pay for both abortions and contraceptives regardless of whether or not you like it.
9. The federal government decides whether or not you get treatment and what treatment you get.
10. Private pharmaceutical companies are nationalized. Their assets are ceased. Their board of directors are fired. All employees now work for the federal government. There are no longer any drug patents.

Now that would be a government takeover of health care. Absolutely none of the above have happened or are going to happen. We are not even remotely close to a single one of those things becoming reality.

Bill Maher was thoughtful and correct in his analysis. Indigenous just looks like a fool.

That is not how it works, the US government does it's bidding by regulation. But it is the biggest centralized government in history. You would say unless it is a, Soviet style, direct government control it is not government takeover, which is complete bull shit.

As far as the debate goes you lost. Your ideas about it are delusional, I would say you have some sort mental disorder.

indigenous says

You would say unless it is a, Soviet style, direct government control it is not government takeover, which is complete bull shit.

That's not what I said.

I gave 10 specific events that would constitute a government take-over in any sense of the term, none of which have happened or are going to.

You are simply coping out now.

Dan8267 says

That's not what I said.

Sure it is...

Like I said I will prove it to any normal person.

The only way you are normal is if your first name is ab...