patrick.net

AWESOME.

Now, let's fund NERVA again.

why dont we fund space programs any more?

geez its the only thing I can actually get excited about.

just watch this to give you an idea of how small our little planet really is

http://www.HEheh1BH34Q

also, Gary- does Jesus also rule other planets?

Supporting microwave research will be key in harnessing solar energy via satellites and deep space probes. But of course, with all that coal underground, who cares.

The Original Bankster says

why dont we fund space programs any more?

geez its the only thing I can actually get excited about.

Because they are hugelly expensive and have diminishing returns. There is also nowhere to go that isn't instantly lethal.

Now if astronomers were to discover a planet populated exclusively by insanely amorous, unimaginably attractive, STD free young third world women I have no doubt there are many on this forum would sell their RE empires in a heartbeat to fund an interplaetary expeditionary force.

Rin says

Supporting microwave research will be key in harnessing solar energy via satellites and deep space probes. But of course, with all that coal underground, who cares.

I like coal

New Renter says

Rin says

Supporting microwave research will be key in harnessing solar energy via satellites and deep space probes. But of course, with all that coal underground, who cares.

I like coal

The good thing is that coal-to-gas synfuel production will keep chemical engineers employed.

If this holds up to peer review it will be a big break through in not only space craft propulsion but also QM theory.

Are you guys still bitching about Coal?

You won already, don't you even follow the news?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/us/politics/obama-to-offer-rules-to-sharply-curb-power-plants-carbon-emissions.html?_r=0

Florida has projected that our already $300 electric bill will raise to $500 in the next three years. FPL is just going to do away with coal plants because it would cost to much to meet the fantasy target. Clean coal has reached the ceiling. Plus they know if they did find another way. The next populous moron will demand even higher electric bills.

zzyzzx says

Nasa is a major player in space science

They are also a major player at my airport - as long as they are getting funding they will stay and expand at my airport. Works for me.

According to good scientific practice, an independent third party needed to replicate Shawyer's results. As Wired.co.uk reported, this happened last year when a Chinese team built its own EmDrive and confirmed that it produced 720 mN (about 72 grams) of thrust, enough for a practical satellite thruster.

This was an episode of The Big Bang Theory. The Chinese team said they validated the results simply to get credit for doing work, but really they did nothing, assuming that Sheldon had gotten the theory correct.

http://www.mFpLV40r6eg

Even if this turns out to be a lot of hot air (sorry, plasma), the work in microwave transmission and containment will be useful for when future solar collecting satellites, start to delivery 24 hour energy to the surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite

Give it a century or so for development.

In the meantime, the US is already finishing up a coal-to-gasoline facility in West VA and it's scheduled for 2016.

http://www.transgasdevelopment.com/projects

Thus, there's no impending energy shortage, only profiteers who prosper from inside information.

Do you really think we haven't cracked cold fusion yet? Talk about your disruptive technologies... No effing WAY the energy lobby would let that come out! Free energy would drive an entirely different sort of economy that land barons, rentiers, and warlords would have no part in.

Ask about the soap less washing machine. Invented decades ago and promptly acquired by the detergent conglomerates.

Quigley says

drive an entirely different sort of economy that land barons, rentiers, and warlords would have no part in.

Yes, I agree, as I get dividends from not only tobacco but also, utility stocks.

No free energy until I'm in the grave. Between now and then, it's King Coal baby!

Good thing you aren't long on Green energy we all know what a sham that is Right?

CaptainShuddup says

Good thing you aren't long on Green energy we all know what a sham that is Right?

Well, peak oil's a myth, as there's already 200+ years of coal underground, regardless of the projected fracking and sand tar supplies. That's a fact and coal to gasoline is a proven long term technology solution, as indicated by Sasol Corp in South Africa.

Thus, current gas prices support coal to gasoline build outs and those projects are already in the pipeline.

Green means 22nd century, not today.

In that distant future, solar satellites, using special materials, will convert a bulk of solar radiation into microwaves, and beam it back to collecting stations to earth, to feed the grid.

I totally agree with about the supply and availability of Oil.

But Green energy could be a reality today if America was more industrious and we had more entrepreneurial spirit over novice investor society that we are.
As long as starting a Green energy endeavor is more about investment, dividends and projected profits based on Federal programs and mandates.
Then Green energy will never see the light of day. Not in the 22nd or 23rd century. That's not to say that those who can't afford it, wont have to do with out. Sooner than later a technology that has 80% administrative and profit costs baked in will be mandated on the public whether they can afford it or not. and Like Mandated healthcare using the same 80% model has been imposed on the most destitute public since the start of Postwar America.

CaptainShuddup says

Then Green energy will never see the light of day. Not in the 22nd or 23rd century. That's not to say that those who can't afford it, wont have to do with out.

There's a cultural change here. The 20th century is over and thus, the rest of the world will not be looking at the US, as the R&D workshop of the globe.

Science R&D, corporate or institutional, will be a global thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the Singapore-to-Seoul Pan Pacific consortium, circa 2030, launches the first solar satellite with microwave transmitters. And from there, they can make either gradual or dramatic R&D in those areas, without support from the US's Dept of Energy or any of our alphabet soup depts.

Our universities are already starting pilot programs abroad, to spread their brand name with Asia-Pacific denizens. I believe the Univ of Chicago has a campus in Singapore already.

So I wouldn't worry too much. We can get fat and lazy on our coal deposits, while the rest of the world makes advances in real science and engineering.

I happen to know that you are correct on all counts.

The whole South Asia region get's technology two years before we hear about a future release date.

CaptainShuddup says

I happen to know that you are correct on all counts.

The whole South Asia region get's technology two years before we hear about a future release date.

South Asia is India and that's not where it's at. Albeit, it's the current popular offshoring destination for corporate America but for the most part, it'll languish as a body shop for decades.

It's the zone from Singapore to Seoul, the east Asian Pacific Rim, which is the future, as they're nimble, more interested in technology, and don't have a century to wait, by sitting on a pile of coal.

I never understood why East Asia is South of India.

I was in Malaysia in 2008, they had things I didn't see in the States until last year.
Like our short lived Clear internet company. That quickly came and went.
They had G4 access points with reasonable prices for people on their wages.
I remember seeing an advertisement for the Galaxy S in 2008 in the Singapore Air port and wondering if Apple would ever allow them in the states.

I'd been to a number of countries in Asia-Pacific: Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, PRC, Korea, and Japan. The difference between there and here is that they're not sitting around and waiting for the the future to arrive.

Granted, China's a small 'King Coal' country but the rest of them aren't these mega energy mills like the Middle East, Russia, or North American Union.

For east Asia, it's about making the future happen w/o the luxury of simply logging one's hours, at some energy company. As a result of this hastened attitude, if solar-microwave becomes real, it'll happen on their watch and not ours.

Well if you've been there, no wonder you're not getting married.
I really had to struggle with my self to come back.

CaptainShuddup says

Well if you've been there, no wonder you're not getting married.

I really had to struggle with my self to come back.

Yeah, thank goodness that women in Korea, PRC, & Japan were shy, otherwise, I would have been dodging 'em all over the place.

Shy? They were pulling both of my arms, like a human wishbone.

CaptainShuddup says

Shy? They were pulling both of my arms, like a human wishbone.

That only happened to me in Thailand :-)

CaptainShuddup says

I was in Malaysia in 2008, they had things I didn't see in the States until last year.

I was in SE Asia in 2004, and tech, both devices and services, were everywhere at far more reasonable prices than the States.

Funny how Windows XP cost like $20 in Thailand but $100+ in the US. Who knew CDs were so heavy. "No customer support outside Asia." the box said.

Rin says

CaptainShuddup says

Shy? They were pulling both of my arms, like a human wishbone.

That only happened to me in Thailand :-)

That happens to everyone in the touristy areas of Thailand. The grand majority of the people are quite conservative however. They don't even like wearing bikinis to the beach, let alone going topless like the acres of European revelers.

I'm fairly convinced that technology is being actively suppressed in the USA. Anything that is disruptive, that is a new technology that would harm current industry is being quietly killed or acquired and buried. There are a lot of American inventors in shallow graves. When the choice is between a ten billion dollar industry and a couple of guys with post docs from MIT, the math becomes crystal.
Read "Influx" by Daniel Suarez for a look at what might be.

Quigley says

They don't even like wearing bikinis to the beach, let alone going topless like the acres of European revelers.

Of course, these girls knew me, and they were competing waitresses from neighboring bars.

Here's the thing about the EmDrive that fascinates me (assuming it holds up..unlike Cold Fusion, or the faster than light experiments).

In the Pantheon world of The Science, shouldn't Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking have discovered this. And wouldn't Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson be building these right now at their private space companies.

Instead, what seems to have happened is what I would expect in the real world. A truly new idea appears and it's roundly dismissed as impossible. Then, a group that has no stake in the Old Order, looks at it and says...mmm...interesting and makes it work (China). Then the Establishment awakens and says....oh, yeah, we can do that too! They being dowdy old NASA...not Entrepreneurial Billionaires.

This process, by the way, has nothing to do with Neil deGrasse Tyson.

It isn't a viable technology until Elon Musk is losing money on it.

John Bailo says

In the Pantheon world of The Science, shouldn't Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking have discovered this. And wouldn't Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson be building these right now at their private space companies.

Instead, what seems to have happened is what I would expect in the real world. A truly new idea appears and it's roundly dismissed as impossible. Then, a group that has no stake in the Old Order, looks at it and says...mmm...interesting and makes it work (China). Then the Establishment awakens and says....oh, yeah, we can do that too!

For one, I work in finance and have met CEOs, portfolio managers, private equity partners, etc, and let me tell you this ... many of those folks are a bunch of well-connected bozos. In other words, attending Wharton, London Business School, Harvard Business, etc doesn't make one a visionary or a next generation Nikola Tesla.

At the same time, I realize that if one isn't truly financially independent, one doesn't want to work for an organization which will either steal your ideas or fire one for having 'em, then one can't really innovate.

Thus, I don't believe that Musk, Branson, or Bezos are creative geniuses. These are rich folks who like the media attention of being eccentric or eclectic but have their noses on what enhances their public image.

When they say that this technology is "potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma," is that their way of saying that they have no fucking idea why it works ?

Btw zzyzzx, congratulations on posting something other polls about how much everyone hates Obama. This is very interesting.

marcus says

When they say that this technology is "potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma," is that their way of saying that they have no fucking idea why it works ?

Pretty much. A couple of well-informed sources have laughed heartily at this characterization of the quantum vacuum.

Also: they even measured thrust when the device was turned off, which does call into question their setup.

I hope this is true. I am nearly certain it's not, but we'll have to wait.

Nasa is looking at warp drives too. Although, that's even less likely, unless all this stuff is being reverse engineered from crashed alien ships (as long as we're talking unlikely).