patrick.net

Yeah,yeah. I'm not playing one upmanship.

The point was that in a socialistic country you are rewarded for no reason IOW there is no price discovery.

Life organically does have price discovery and rewards it, as with the 12yr old Kenyan boy.

Yes, price discovery is very important.

I think many people agree, but to them the "cost" is too high. They argue for arbitrary concepts like fairness and merit. I am sure they mean well, but categorical value judgment is meaningless IMO.

Sure, fairness is important, but in what context? In any game, the losers will always cry foul. Should the outcome of all games be a matter of participation only?

The problem is that we are ALL subjectivists. Worse yet, too many of us also pretend to be objective. As a result, reasons are invented for emotional comfort.

debyne says

If everyone were responsible, honest and worked hard, there would be FAR less poverty than we have today. Hence, the reason to not prop up the lazy and weak thereby rewarding bad behavior and perpetuating the problem.

I can (sort of) agree with the second sentence, in this sense. There is an inherent problem in just paying people a living income for doing nothing. This leads to too many bad parents having children, and a lack of personal responsibility and so on. I don't claim to know how society will address that, but it is addressable as we eventually move into an age where some sort of minimal income to people will be necessary.

But as for the previous sentence ?

"If everyone were responsible, honest and worked hard, there would be FAR less poverty than we have today."

I disagree. If this were the case, a huge number of these people would find themselves in jobs that don't pay enough to live. This already exists to a degree today. People who are willing to work, that is people who insist on working, but the best job (or multiple jobs) they can get, which take up most of their energy, do not pay enough. So they are on food stamps anyway.

Food stamps are a way of hiding the fact that our economy is not working for some who want to work but can't get a good job. WE don't see lines of people begging for assistance. Food stamps are also a back door welfare for the employers who can then pay less than the cost of living, knowing the government will support those people.

If everyone insisted on working, when there are not enough jobs, this only creates more jobs that pay even less.

The idea that more people being responsible and willing to work and having the right beliefs automatically creates more decent paying jobs ? How can anyone believe such illogical nonsense ?

marcus says

our economy is not working for some who want to work but can't get a good job

A simple desire to work is insufficient. The work must also be something value by the market. One must be in tune with the market and satisfy its wants.

What if I really want to work as a telephone operator? Or an elevator driver?

Trust funders are just fine. There are roughly two types: some take advantage of the gift and do something productive (e.g. the Ellison kids), others are pure consumers.

There is much anger leveled against the second group. However, since they are such great consumers, you can just sell more things to them, which means business opportunities for everyone!

AT&T took a lot of risks building a large LTE network. It is easy to underprice risks but that is the true essence of running a business.

Sure, a lot of people do nothing in the office. Some people claim to be making less doing all the "hard" work. But why don't they learn to bullshit? Perhaps it is a real skill.

Words like "earn" may be romantic, but what does it actually mean?

If Peter P went to college, I'm thinking he was a 'C' student, liberal arts major. Nothing against liberal arts majors, in fact I respect the hard working intelligent ones. But this guy is....just a bullshitter.

Peter P says

But why don't they learn to bullshit? Perhaps it is a real skill.

Yes. perhaps it is, but a very annoying one the way that you demonstrate it, as you have in this entire thread.

marcus says

Yes. perhaps it is, but a very annoying one the way that you demonstrate it, as you have in this entire thread.

I got you to waste time responding, didn't I?

Yes. Your human compassion and intelligence overwhelms me. [/sarcasm]

Goal oriented are we?

marcus says

Yes. Your human compassion and intelligence overwhelms me.

And nothing flatters me more than long responses to my one-liners. :-)

Peter P says

marcus says

Yes. Your human compassion and intelligence overwhelms me.

And nothing flatters me more than long responses to my one-liners. :-)

It sounds like you are close to being ignored by Marcus, I think he has the most on ignore.

I like this Conan iPhone video instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N68_cp1vEFs

It features my favorite comedian and her then-future husband.

I have tried practically all cellphone providers, and they are all pretty much the same.

I got my first cellphone in 1995.

Does Verizon support any GSM phone/tablet with the right bands? Or does it allow only "certified" devices.

AT&T accommodated my odd-ball ThinkPad Tablet 2 (LTE) bought from a Microsoft Store, no questions asked.

Then I bought a Nexus 7 with LTE from Google, no problem either.

Peter P says

On the other hand, some rich kids are doing something meaningful with their trust funds. For example, the Ellison kids are producing film projects.

Them and half the trust fund babies in Williamsburg and Allston.

Probably shit like this:
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/watch-trailer-for-american-blogger-is-the-documentary-about-blogging-america-youve-been-waiting-for-20140408

http://www.youtube.com/embed/n2kH_mniFWc

Faith is meant to be unbridled and unjustified. :-)

Belief is a tool. Use it to improve your life.

Then obviously AT&T has not been so bad. Even in 2011 my phone roamed just fine on a cruise ship via satellite.

thunderlips11 says

Yep. Unbridled and unjustified faith in the Free Market is no different than when people used to claim there will be no train wrecks under Socialism.

Unbridled and unjustified faith in the Government is no different than when people used to claim there will be no train wrecks under the free market.

The diff is that train wrecks in the free market are not perpetuated into perpetuity .

thunderlips11 says

They will always hunt down a Red Herring like CRA to explain how making Liar Loans to middle class white people crashed the housing market.

They will always hunt down a Red Herring like the Koch Brothers to explain how big evil business exploits without any redeeming qualities, and government always helps no matter how much they grow or increase taxes.

indigenous says

The diff is that train wrecks in the free market are not perpetuated into perpetuity .

How fiercely are airlines competing over offering the largest seat in Economy class?

indigenous says

They will always hunt down a Red Herring like the Koch Brothers to explain how big evil business exploits without any redeeming qualities, and government always helps no matter how much they grow or increase taxes.

thunderlips11 says

How fiercely are airlines competing over offering the largest seat in Economy class?

Very much so, at least in first, business, and premium economy. Most people want rock bottom fare and they are responding too.

Peter P says

Very much so, at least in first, business, and premium economy. Most people want rock bottom fare and they are responding too.

Not what I asked. And some people are willing to pay a few bucks more for a few more inches of legroom.

So, given the number of airlines, which ones are trying to pick up the people who want larger seats at a slightly higher price?

After all, markets are perfectly competitive, no?

That would be counterproductive. Choice is a good thing. You can usually pay a bit more for a more legroom.

United has Economy Plus. Virgin America has Main Cabin Select.

Some airlines like Cathay and BA have a real premium economy cabin with wider seats and more legroom.

Again, not what I asked.

Which airline runs against it's competition on the fact that their unadulterated, regular economy seating is larger than their competitors at least on some flights?

This is like saying because you can buy a BMW, it doesn't matter if there is no seat comfort competition among lower priced car makes and models.

The point is there is no competition.

If the free market truly existed in America, you'd be able to buy pot legally on every street corner. The market has spoken about marijuana. The fact that it's been illegal for the past 80 years proves that there is no free market in the U.S. All markets are controlled by government or the corporations they delegate the power to.

thunderlips11 says

Again, not what I asked.

Which airline runs against it's competition over their unadulterated, regular economy seating is larger than their competitors?

This is like saying because you can buy a BMW, it doesn't matter if there is no seat comfort competition among lower priced car makes and models.

The point is there is no competition.

As a passenger, why should you care? Just pretend that your seat is a regular economy seat.

Peter P says

As a passenger, why should you care? Just pretend that your seat is a regular economy seat.

There is plenty of demand for people to spend an extra $30-50 on a seat where you can lower the tray and not have your knees bashed, laptop use prohibited, and get a close up tour of the bald spot of the schmuck in front of you.

According to seat guru, premium economy is almost double the price of economy and generally not offered by US carriers and primarily for international flights. That's not paying a little extra for what used to be economy seats on a domestic flight.

IIRC United charges about $30-$50 for a few more inches of legroom. Delta has a similar product called Economy Comfort. I always opt for these seats whenever they are available.

Who still uses a laptop? Just bring along a tablet. It is must more space efficient and less awkward to use.

thunderlips11 says

How fiercely are airlines competing over offering the largest seat in Economy class?

"In the early 60s practically none of us could take up the offer to "glide, starry-eyed" on an aircraft with anybody in those days. More than 80 percent of the country had never once been on an airplane. There was a simple reason. Flying was absurdly expensive."

If you want a two-word answer to why airfares have dropped so much since the 1970s, it's this: Deregulation worked.

And air travel has never been safer.

But you want to whine about seat size?

thunderlips11 says

Which airline runs against it's competition on the fact that their unadulterated, regular economy seating is larger than their competitors at least on some flights?

From roomy to roomier
Now you can get even more comfortable with JetBlue in our Even More Space seats, which give you additional room to stretch out and relax, plus early boarding and early access to overhead bins. When you purchase an Even More Space seat you'll also receive Even More Speed (expedited security), which is available in select cities.

thunderlips11 says

There is plenty of demand for people to spend an extra $30-50 on a seat where you can lower the tray and not have your knees bashed, laptop use prohibited, and get a close up tour of the bald spot of the schmuck in front of you.

It will happen guaranteed.

Also take notice that the middle class is getting it's ass kicked.

Dan8267 says

If the free market truly existed in America, you'd be able to buy pot legally on every street corner. The market has spoken about marijuana. The fact that it's been illegal for the past 80 years proves that there is no free market in the U.S. All markets are controlled by government or the corporations they delegate the power to.

That there is Libertarian talk, be careful what you say lefty

indigenous says

thunderlips11 says

There is plenty of demand for people to spend an extra $30-50 on a seat where you can lower the tray and not have your knees bashed, laptop use prohibited, and get a close up tour of the bald spot of the schmuck in front of you.

It will happen guaranteed.

As I have said, it is already happening. There are domestic extra-legroom products for $30-$50 extra.

Peter P says

As I have said, it is already happening. There are domestic extra-legroom products for $30-$50 extra.

There you go Thunderlips loses this round. Never question the free market...

marcus says

"If everyone were responsible, honest and worked hard, there would be FAR less poverty than we have today."

I disagree.

I see your point about the jobs piece, but I do think we'd have more jobs if people were more educated and driven, thereby innovating more, starting up more companies and ideas, and building the labor supply. Also, by the word "responsible" I would include poor people not having kids they can't afford and not spending beyond their means...wouldn't it help our poverty situation significantly if people had less kids and just supported themselves?

debyne says

I see your point about the jobs piece, but I do think we'd have more jobs if people were more educated and driven, thereby innovating more, starting up more companies and ideas, and building the labor supply. Also, by the word "responsible" I would include poor people not having kids they can't afford and not spending beyond their means...wouldn't it help our poverty situation significantly if people had less kids and just supported themselves?

Is this buzz-phrase bingo?

"building the labor supply"
"innovating more"

That's +20 Meaningless Points.

American Society doesn't value education or "building the labor supply". Ensuring the peasants are properly indebted and just smart enough to shine your shoes and your bunghole is what makes keeps America ON TOP!

Vicente says

American Society doesn't value education or "building the labor supply". Ensuring the peasants are properly indebted and just smart enough to shine your shoes and your bunghole is what makes keeps America ON TOP!

Bitter much? You must be one of the "victims" needing a handout cuz you dicked around in school and got stuck with a shitty career. Too late Luther, too late.

marcus says

and btw, you do know his only goal here is random bullshitting and trolling, right ?

My goal here is not unlike that of everyone else, the emotional comfort of connection and attention.

Outside of high school debates, arguments are rarely judged on reason and objectivity. Pretty much everyone will stand by his conclusion at the end of the day. Forums like this are great because we can all find confirmations and rebuttals of refutations. Through selective cognition, we are all happy. :-)

But marcus, thanks for backing me up while I was out there trying to fix my crappy golf swing.

Entitlemented says

And only my ATT phone connected us to the other tribes. Its like having a handheld computer in my hand.

To be fair, you were lucky. All wireless networks have strengths and weaknesses, so all carriers just suck differently.

Vicente says

Ensuring the peasants are properly indebted

Yeah, but the peasants have a choice not to follow their fellow lemmings into debt-serfdom. In fact one could argue that they have the duty. Future generations could refuse to pay taxes in masses for the deficit spending brought on by their priors where they had no vote on. Can't jail a whole generation. Or they can simply refuse to consume beyond what's needed to survive. Not holding my breath, but the solutions are clearly out there.. ;)

Peter P says

Entitlemented says

And only my ATT phone connected us to the other tribes. Its like having a handheld computer in my hand.

To be fair, you were lucky. All wireless networks have strengths and weaknesses, so all carriers just suck differently.

Never looked back since I went with Republic wireless after Patrick posted a thread about it. Unlimited 3G for $25, $10 without data (still unlimited talk/text). Thanks, Patrick!