patrick.net

turtledove says

statutory rape

Exactly the problem it should not be a statutory law, it should be common law with judges using what they are paid to do, which is to exercise judgment.

turtledove says

To me the issue isn't about the age of consent. Teenagers are not old enough to play adult games. There is something very wrong with experienced people who target the minimally experienced.

You've got it backwards. In reality, it is the other way around: It is the the 16 year old women that DEMAND that their partners must be older (wealthier, more accomplished, better, more proven, etc).

So a 21-year old men cannot have most 21-year old women, because the 21-year old women want a 26-year old man that is still "better". But when the 21-year old man turns to the 16-year old woman that does desire him, you want to blame him for "targeting" (nice choice of a loaded phrase there) "the minimally experienced". And to criminalize the man.

turtledove says

Otherwise, it's not a level playing field emotionally or intellectually

You must be aware of the fact that most 21-year old men are no match for the manipulative skill of a 16-year old woman. If anything, it is the 21-year old men that need to be protected.

justme says

You mys be aware of the fact that most 21-year old men are no match for the manipulative skill of a 16-year old woman.

That is sad. But much of the manipulation fire power of the 16-year old comes from her superior legal position in case things go sideways.

justme says

You must be aware of the fact that most 21-year old men are no match for the manipulative skill of a 16-year old woman. If anything, it is the 21-year old men that need to be protected.

Yes, this is true.

justme says

But when the 21-year old man turns to the 16-year old woman that does desire him, you want to blame him for "targeting" (nice choice of a loaded phrase there) "the minimally experienced". And to criminalize the man

That's turtledove's style, trying to make the man look like the oppressor.

She did the same to me, when I'd said that my sister, with borderline/histrionic personality disorder, had ruined the lives of ppl around her, like the brother-in-law, my dad, and many of her former friends. But yet, it was my fault, for thinking poorly of her and not defending her.

BTW, TD, I'm still waiting for your formal apology, I don't go for that passive-aggressive stuff. You were wrong, now admit it.

indigenous says

Exactly the problem it should not be a statutory law, it should be common law with judges using what they are paid to do, which is to exercise judgment.

Common law (case law and precedent) is very dangerous, especially when judges get to exercise "judgement" on top of that. "Judgement" is exactly what causes men to go to jail for 30 years, while women get a free pass and court-ordered child support from their male rape victim. It is pure insanity.

justme says

indigenous says

Exactly the problem it should not be a statutory law, it should be common law with judges using what they are paid to do, which is to exercise judgment.

Common law (case law and precedent) is very dangerous, especially when judges get to exercise "judgement" on top of that. "Judgement" is exactly what causes men to go to jail for 30 years, while women get a free pass and court-ordered child support from their male rape victim. It is pure insanity.

Obviously there have to be boundaries written into the law. They are executing judgement every day already. Any judge who breaks those boundaries should get prosecuted.

mell says

Obviously there have to be boundaries written into the law. They are executing judgement every day already. Any judge who breaks those boundaries should get prosecuted.

Yeah, except judges cannot be prosecuted for making judgements, only for procedural misconduct. And prosecution is more rare than the appearance of a unicorn.

What about prosecutors? Would it not be great if prosecutors could be prosecuted? Fat chance that will ever happen. At most they will get a reprimand from a the state bar.

justme says

You've got it backwards. In reality, it is the other way around: It is the the 16 year old women that DEMAND that their partners must be older (wealthier, more accomplished, better, more proven, etc).

You really think that the majority of 16-year-old girls think like that? I've not met one. My sixteen-year-old step daughter wants a date to football games... someone to take her to the movies.... Someone to experience a first-time relationship with. Who are these young, teenage girls who are projecting out so far into the future that they will only date guys with wealth and power? The 16-year-old girls I know cannot see past the weekend.

justme says

So a 21-year old men cannot have most 21-year old women, because the 21-year old women want a 26-year old man that is still "better". But when the 21-year old man turns to the 16-year old woman that does desire him, you want to blame him for "targeting" (nice choice of a loaded phrase there) "the minimally experienced". And to criminalize the man.

The 21-year-old man can date women who are 18, 19, 20, etc... They would be considered in his peer group, too. His only two choices aren't dating women his exact age OR combing high schools. There are some options that fall squarely in between, and as a bonus, are legal.

turtledove says

You really think that the majority of 16-year-old girls think like that?

Yes, a majority (>50% does)

justme says

turtledove says

My sixteen-year-old step daughter wants a date to football games...

Prediction: You are being very naive about the nature of 16-year old women. Be forewarned.

BTW an extreme statutory law would include the 3 strike law and abomination it is.

justme says

Yes, a majority (>50% does)

Exactly why statutory law is bad. The bese government is from the bottom up, not centralized.

Somalia practices Xeer law which is 99% common law, and it works.

The last thing we need is more centralized we know best horse shit.

Fellas, just follow the rules and make sure that she looks like she's 25, esp if you suspect a fake ID. Or better yet ... go up to Canada and call an esc*rt agency. And the Canadian Mounties are not like some dimwitted Dudley Do-Rights; they'll bust an agency which employs anyone under 18.

It's bad enough that between adults, 41% of rape charges are faked. Does anyone remember Kobe Bryant, ten years ago in Colorado? After a settlement of a cool million, his accuser disappeared. Now, was that person, looking for justice and some acknowledgement that she was wronged? I don't think so.

The end result ... Kobe had lost his endorsements from Coca-Cola, McDonalds, and Nutella, more than his NBA salary.

Another story in the news today: A 46-year old female Austrialian teacher attempted to have sex with (=rape) a 10-year old boy that she was sexually obsessed with. The boy was smart, pushed her away and told the teacher that he was not old enough to have sex.

Diane Brimble, a teacher and mother of 8 (!!) was sentenced to ZERO jail time and 200 hours of community service. This case is the perfect example
of why judges should, in certain cases, not be allowed to exercise "judgement" with respect to sentencing. What Diane Brimble did was attempted rape. If a male teacher had done the same to a female 10-year old, he would have been locked up for life. That is, if he had even made it alive past the angry lynch mob that would have formed outside his residence.

But Diane Brimble got ZERO jail time because she is a woman.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/female-teacher-who-sought-sex-with-10yearold-boy-walks-free-20141009-113hlz.html

So there you have it. A crime that might get a man strung up by vigilantes gets a woman a slap on the wrists.

QUOTES:

"She tried to manipulate [the boy] to think that she loved him and that his parents did not. This hurts me to the very core," the father said.

"I feel angry that if it was a 46-year-old man and a 10-year-old girl that it would most likely be a different outcome ... I feel angry and betrayed by the Education Department who did nothing to remove this evil woman from other children," he said.

"To think a woman would get a tattoo with my child's name as a sign of her undying love for [the boy] baffles me. I would like Brimble to endure the pain of removing name forever."

About Diane Brimble again:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/female-teacher-groomed-student-10-20141006-10qtvt.html

Remember that big propaganda campaign a few years ago about being on the a vigilant lookout for bad men supposedly "grooming" underage girls to be their sex slaves? Well, guess what, it was female schoolteachers that needed to be looked out for!

Rampantly demonizing ALL men while completely giving women a free pass is all in days work, and probably paying only 72 cents on the dollar [sarcasm alert for the impaired].

justme says

demonizing ALL men while completely giving women a free pass

This is the law of the land these days, an institutionalized double standard.

And then, there are those who continually criticize men like me, who'd given up on dating, years ago. It's like we're suppose to get ripped off by the opposite gender and if we resist getting robbed blind then it's our problem for not being open minded.

Never watched this show. Did they every catch any females?

Vicente says

Never watched this show. Did they every catch any females?

Why don't you have a seat right here?

justme says

This case is the perfect example

of why judges should, in certain cases, not be allowed to exercise "judgement" with respect to sentencing.

That is preferable to the 3 strike law in Calif where the judges hands are tied and the 3rd strike may be for a misdemeanor. Giving, the more often than not drug addict, a 25yr to life sentence. Which is 80% of the inmates.

Again the who question is the prison guards union and the police. Whom feed like vultures on the drug addict charges as they get brownie points when even ever they convict someone.

There would be no more drug abuse if they simply legalized it. It would save a Lot of money and ruined lives or murdered people.

Vicente says

Never watched this show.

You should try to find it online to watch. It's pretty good.

Vicente says

Did they every catch any females?

No. Duh.

indigenous says

That is preferable to the 3 strike law in Calif where the judges hands are tied and the 3rd strike may be for a misdemeanor.

I agree. The California three convictions and you get life in prison is a horribly bad idea.

To fix the problem of female sex predators, though, we need codification that women CANNOT be treated with more lenience that men, and that each judge will have the gender balance of their sentencing practices tracked and forcibly corected. Same thing goes for prosecutors.

I'm NOT a "tough on crime" [sarcasm] kind of person, but men and women should be treated EQUALLY when it comes to prosecution and sentencing. Otherwise we get crazy laws and a crazy society.

justme says

What Diane Brimble did was attempted rape.

Yes, because
1. Ten is way different than 16.
2. She forced herself onto him.

This is an example that illustrates the difference between rape and what the state falsely calls rape in the case of a 16-year-old and a 18-year-old who both want a sexual relationship with each other.

There's also a huge difference between a prepubescent child and an adolescent. Adolescents, particularly mid-to-late teens, have sexual feelings and should have the right to act on those feelings and choose their partners. It's a human right.

Vicente says

Never watched this show. Did they every catch any females?

Did they every go after any?

It's more common for men to go after teenage girls than for women to go after teenage boys, but as justme pointed out, there are plenty of women going after pre-teen boys.

I never watched the show either, do they catch real pedophiles, i.e. someone going after a pre-teen, or some guy pursuing a 17-year-old?

turtledove says

Men have been charged even though the girl went to great lengths to mislead everyone about her age. At what point is she responsible for fraud... or entrapment? Why should a person's life be ruined because he was tricked by a girl seeking to thwart authority?

Two Words: Traci Lords. Used her sister's ID to get a real passport with the wrong age. Appeared in countless films at 15. Her mom was actually supportive, because she was bringing in huge amounts of cash.

The government tried go after the porn industry, saying that even though she had multiple valid, non-faked government-issued IDs with her name, picture, address, and stating she was legal age, that somehow magically the porn industry should have known her true age. Traci Lords was far from naive or inexperienced.

Thanks to terrific lawyers and a lot of cash, they won.

But a lot of guys who don't have a crew of hotshot lawyers end up in the can.

thunderlips11 says

The government tried go after the porn industry, saying that even though she had multiple valid, non-faked government-issued IDs with her name, picture, address, and stating she was legal age, that somehow magically the porn industry should have known her true age. Traci Lords was far from naive or inexperienced.

The government had to back off because it issued those IDs that the corporations used to check Traci Lord's age. Thus, the government ended up inditing itself for child pornography. Naturally, the government didn't want to end up liable itself, so it caved. A great example of government hypocrisy.

Dan8267 says

A great example of government hypocrisy.

It is the only kind that has legs the rest is quickly exposed

thunderlips11 says

even though she had multiple valid, non-faked government-issued IDs with her name, picture, address, and stating she was legal age, that somehow magically the porn industry should have known her true age.

There's definitely a legal blind spot in this area. I just don't understand how the reasonable person standard got so messed up with this. Would a reasonable person be expected to look into her soul and know her true age? Clearly, if a ten year old were sporting an ID that says she's 21, only a moron wouldn't see through that. But if a 16 year old girl had an ID that said she was 18 or 21, why would a reasonable person question it? Even if I wanted to question it, how would I go about verifying her age (beyond checking her erroneous ID)? What exactly is a reasonable person expected to do?

I can't speak for all parents, but I can tell you that I would never act on this law as long as I consider the other person to be in my daughter's peer group. So, if she were 16-17 and dating a 18-19 year old, I think it's absurd to make problems because of his age. Mentally, the ages are well matched, and both parties are more than capable of judging the appropriateness of their actions. However, it is my opinion that the age spread among teenagers should really be limited to two to three years.... and there are no dates until after I get to know the guy (a couple of family dinners, first, for example). I'm not going to make my daughter break up with her boyfriend because he turned 18. Unfortunately, with the laws the way they currently are, I cannot say the same for my son. Not because I think he would be doing anything wrong, but I would do everything in my power to discourage him from taking that risk as the legal deck seems to be stacked against him.

turtledove says

Not because I think he would be doing anything wrong, but I would do everything in my power to discourage him from taking that risk as the legal deck seems to be stacked against him.

Unfortunately, girls 14, 15, 16 will put their hooks in him when he is 17,18. Will he be flattered? Will the hormones override the brain in a teenage boy? The answer I think is 99% of the time.

I have a son too, it's a long way off for me to worry about, but we need to stop criminalizing normal teenage boy fallibilities, and stop pretending that teenage gals have no sex drive and no manipulation skills.

thunderlips11 says

and stop pretending that teenage gals have no sex drive and no manipulation skills.

Dan8267 says

It's more common for men to go after teenage girls than for women to go after teenage boys,

I'm not so sure this is true anymore, and perhaps it never was true. It was just swept under the rug. Seeing the of flood reports of female schoolteachers that have been found to sexually assault their underage and even pre-teen students I can't help but think that the reported cases are just the tip of an iceberg.

If elected dictator, I will pardon these two teachers.

zzyzzx says

If elected dictator, I will pardon these two teachers.

What kind of wuss dictator are you? Real dictators don't get elected.

More jailbirds for you can be found here

http://femalesexoffenders.com/fso2/

Also, we need to cut the peer pressure blame catch-all.
"I only have sex because my friends do."
"I only eat chocolate because my friends do."
"I only smoke weed because my friends do"
etc.

If this was true, nobody would jack/jill off and then smoke a bowl and eat some cookies when nobody else was around.

justme says

Dan8267 says

It's more common for men to go after teenage girls than for women to go after teenage boys,

I'm not so sure this is true anymore, and perhaps it never was true. It was just swept under the rug. Seeing the of flood reports of female schoolteachers that have been found to sexually assault their underage and even pre-teen students I can't help but think that the reported cases are just the tip of an iceberg.

Possibly, but I suspect the media is more interest in the case where hot women are chasing teenage boys because it's more sensational.

I don't have stats since, well this is exactly the kind of thing that it's impossible to get reliable statistics on, but from an evolutionary psychology perspective, it just makes more sense that there are more men chasing younger women than vice-versa.

The value of a female mate is determined almost entirely by her future reproductive potential, whereas the value of a male mate is largely determined by his current and future financial and social prospects, and you basically have to already be an adult to demonstrate financial and social potential.

justme says

What kind of wuss dictator are you? Real dictators don't get elected.

Tell that to Hitler.

Dan8267 says

justme says

What kind of wuss dictator are you? Real dictators don't get elected.

Tell that to Hitler.

If you like your election, you can keep your election.

Dan8267 says

Possibly, but I suspect the media is more interest in the case where hot women are chasing teenage boys because it's more sensational.

Yes, POSSIBLY. But have not scare stories of male child molesters always been good press and good at attracting TV viewers? Even completely false stories and moral panics about satanic male child molesters roaming the halls of our pre-schools in the 1980s. I can agree that the cases were the teacher is semi-hot get more airplay than when she is beyond plain, the latter being the case for Diane Brimble.

zzyzzx says

If elected dictator, I will pardon these two teachers.

Followed by a private consult behind closed doors with the two of them.

Why do these mature and considered discussion threads always have to turn into sordid porn fantasies?

Because they CAN, Ha, Ha, Ha!

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Was it a serial three-way with the fellow taking turns fucking the teachers? FAIL!

Or a real life three-way with one teacher riding his dick and making out with the other teacher sitting on his face? PASS!

Sounds like PASS.

"At the apartment, the boy told police, he had sex with both women. While Respess was having intercourse with him, Dufresne "began intimately kissing (Respess) in an attempt to arouse all parties involved, all who were complete(ly) disrobed."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/03/teachers-group-sex-louisiana-destrehan-high-school_n_5928942.html