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Strategist
2014 Oct 22, 1:04pm
I think Crazy is upset because YouTube fucked his mom.
You know a side has lost when they offer no evidence and resort to nothing but personal attacks.
Dan, why do go for such filthy personal attacks? What does it prove? It's so easy for anyone to resort to personal garbage, but it takes class not to. Am I right?
Dan8267
2014 Oct 22, 1:08pm
What can I say, stupidity brings out the asshole in me.
Besides, you and Crazy are the most morally bankrupt people I've ever had the displeasure to interact with. And his vile posts pollute every conversation.
Strategist
2014 Oct 22, 1:17pm
What can I say, stupidity brings out the asshole in me.
Besides, you and Crazy are the most morally bankrupt people I've ever had the displeasure to interact with. And his vile posts pollute every conversation.
He leans conservative, and I am 70% liberal. And you claim to be independent too. I disagree with Call Crazy on most things, but we don't resort to personal attacks.
It's not stupidity that brings out the asshole in you, it's the inability and frustration to appropriately respond. We could be right on some things you know.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 22, 1:41pm
WE don't live in an artificial, delusional Youtube world
More assertions, no evidence.
Please put me on ignore. You're a sexually frustrated old man who can't get his dick up so you make baseless attacks on people on the Internet who obviously have better lives than you can ever hope for.
You're a morally bankrupt, racist loser who has never accomplished anything in life and is still stupid enough to believe that Fox News is accurate.
Your only contribution to PatNet is demonstrating the need for a ban button.
Ceffer
2014 Oct 22, 4:21pm
This Siphonophore proves that the French did not invent the "French Tickler."
He leans conservative, and I am 70% liberal. And you claim to be independent too. I disagree with Call Crazy on most things, but we don't resort to personal attacks.
CIC doesn't resort to personal attacks? This is a joke, isn't it?
CIC doesn't resort to personal attacks? This is a joke, isn't it?
Coming from a guy who's EVERY post he makes here is an attack??
That's funny... Here's your list:
Dead wrong as usual. I have many reasoned discussions with people capable of reasoned discussion. People with nothing to contribute but idiotic blather and endless personal attacks I reply in kind.
Why is it every site on the internet has to have a handful of idiots cluttering the joint up. CiC, indigenous etc. Here at patnet
And for whatever reason they're always the most vocal
I wish the more interesting folks with something to offer the forum, Would take up the task of ignoring them altogether. And here at patnet even, plaYing mod and deleting all their posts in threads they start
Dead wrong as usual. I have many reasoned discussions with people capable of reasoned discussion.
You consider all the comments you made in the link above "reasoned discussions"?? Really??
Your dementia is further along then we thought....
Once more a return in kind. My dementia at least doesn't affect my reading comprehension. What is your excuse? Where is the word "all" in that sentence? The word in the sentence is "many". All and many don't look much alike so I have to assume you don't understand that they are not synonyms.
You and softshell are dead last on my list of people capable of having reasoned discussions.
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 2:48am
I am 70% liberal
Show me five or more issues on which you exhibit a liberal stance, and we'll let Dan critique them.
Easy - piece of cake:
1. I am an agnostic.
2. I am a strong believer in alternative energy.
3. All education should be completely free.
4. I believe in high death taxes for the very rich.
5. Pro choice.
Bonus number 6. I'm an asshole. :) :)
Peter P
2014 Oct 23, 2:59am
I too am a liberal!
1. I am agnostic (okay, may be slightly Pastafarian)
2. I support the idea of a single-payer healthcare system
3. I am pro-choice
4. I strongly support same-sex marriages
5. I favor legalization of drugs
I do not believe in high death taxes because I want the heirs to squander their wealth so regular people like us can make money off them.
I used to support free education. Now I only support free online education. The idea of public schooling is outdated. Besides, we do not want too many over-educated losers.
I am not against alternative energy, but fossil fuel will be the mainstay for a long time.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 3:01am
We liberals believe
1. All persons have the same rights. No one has privileges.
2. Rights, by definition, cannot be taken away. A freedom that can be taken away is, by definition, a privilege.
3. All persons are equal under law.
4. The only laws that should exist are those protecting rights. Note that this includes public property rights, which is why pollution should be illegal. The environment is public property.
5. People should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they aren't violating the rights of others. However, polluting, fraud, the open system of bribery we call lobbying, and systematically rigging the system to keep people impoverish is a violation of basic human and civil rights. In contrast, smoking weed and running around nude in public is not.
Liberal does NOT mean
1. Pro-choice.
The question of when an offspring becomes a person and is entitled to rights is outside the scope of liberalism. Liberals may be anywhere in the spectrum of pro-life to pro-choice.
2. Socialistic or Communistic
These are economic issues and as liberalism is a social philosophy, liberals can and do subscribe to many, many different economic philosophies.
3. Left or democrats
Although social conservatism has become code for bigotry and is therefore incompatible with liberalism, that does not mean the left or democrats are liberals or that liberals are democrats. I view the Democratic Party as simply being the far less evil of the two parties, but that doesn't mean I don't think their evil. They are just a minor evil compared to the Republicans.
Peter P
2014 Oct 23, 3:07am
The very idea of equality is philosophically perverse. Besides, somebody is always more equal than others.
People must not strive to get even, they should work to do better.
Why should anyone work if he cannot become privileged? There needs to be a reward for being successful. It is the natural/evolutionary thing to do.
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 3:09am
We liberals believe
1. All persons have the same rights. No one has privileges.
2. Rights, by definition, cannot be taken away. A freedom that can be taken away is, by definition, a privilege.
3. All persons are equal under law.
4. The only laws that should exist are those protecting rights. Note that this includes public property rights, which is why pollution should be illegal. The environment is public property.
5. People should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they aren't violating the rights of others. However, polluting, fraud, the open system of bribery we call lobbying, and systematically rigging the system to keep people impoverish is a violation of basic human and civil rights. In contrast, smoking weed and running around nude in public is not.
Sounds like Republican values too.
1. Pro-choice.
The question of when an offspring becomes a person and is entitled to rights is outside the scope of liberalism. Liberals may be anywhere in the spectrum of pro-life to pro-choice.
It's still a liberal stance. Republican stance is pro life.
2. Socialistic or Communistic
These are economic issues and as liberalism is a social philosophy, liberals can and do subscribe to many, many different economic philosophies.
It's still a liberal stance. Republicans are more likely to be capitalists.
3. Left or democrats
Although social conservatism has become code for bigotry and is therefore incompatible with liberalism, that does not mean the left or democrats are liberals or that liberals are democrats. I view the Democratic Party as simply being the far less evil of the two parties, but that doesn't mean I don't think their evil. They are just a minor evil compared to the Republicans.
Sounds liberal-ish to me.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 3:12am
Easy - piece of cake:
1. I am an agnostic.
Irrelevant. Liberalism is a social philosophy, not a religious status.
Granted many liberals are agnostic or atheistic, but that's because intelligent people tend to be liberal and tend to disbelieve in fairytales. Correlation is not causality.
2. I am a strong believer in alternative energy.
Irrelevant. Liberalism is a social philosophy, not an energy policy.
Granted many liberals tend to be in favor of environmental protection because they don't want the world's ecosystem to collapse, but that's because intelligent people tend to be liberal and tend to not want policies that will cause our species's extinction.
3. All education should be completely free.
Irrelevant. Socializing the cost of something is an economic strategy. Despite it's name, socialism is NOT a social philosophy, but an economic strategy.
Granted, liberals tend to be pro-education because intelligent people tend to be liberals and tend to like education and want the masses to be more educated, knowledgeable, and intelligent so that our republic can make wiser decisions.
4. I believe in high death taxes for the very rich.
Irrelevant. Liberalism is a social philosophy, not a taxation policy. Nor is liberalism an economic philosophy at all. Liberals can and do have vastly different economic philosophies.
The opposite of fiscally conservative is NOT fiscally liberal, but rather, fiscally aggressive. Fiscal conservationism has NOTHING to do with financial conservatism. The the word conservative has two unrelated meanings in those two terms.
5. Pro choice.
Irrelevant. A liberal can be anywhere on the pro-life / pro-choice spectrum. The question is when does an offspring become a person. That question I answered in this thread.
However, a liberal who is pro-life from conception is simply someone who believes that personhood begins at that point and therefore is concerned about the rights of the offspring. A liberal who is pro-choice until the second trimester simply believes that personhood begins at the start of the second trimester. Neither is inconsistent with the philosophy of liberalism.
Conclusion, nothing you said indicates any level of liberalism.
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 3:12am
The very idea of equality is philosophically perverse. Besides, somebody is always more equal than others.
In the eyes of the law everyone is equal. In the eyes of the individual, maybe not so equal.
Peter P
2014 Oct 23, 3:15am
The very idea of equality is philosophically perverse. Besides, somebody is always more equal than others.
In the eyes of the law everyone is equal. In the eyes of the individual, maybe not so equal.
People with more money can always buy more or better legal representation.
Moreover, actions of institutions are invariably carried out by individuals.
Peter P
2014 Oct 23, 3:20am
Mobility is infinitely more important than equality.
Mobility is mostly psychological. Anyone can adopt better belief systems and do better in life.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 3:23am
Sounds like Republican values too.
If only that were true. It used to be before Republicans adopted The Southern Strategy in the 1950s. It clearly isn't today. You are a perfect example.
1. All persons have the same rights. No one has privileges.
You believe that cops have privileges and have argued with me when I stated that they do not. You also believe that cops' privileges trump civil rights.
2. Rights, by definition, cannot be taken away. A freedom that can be taken away is, by definition, a privilege.
I sincerely doubt that you believe convicted felons should be allowed to vote. Of course, they should be if voting is an actual right, not a privilege.
3. All persons are equal under law.
Again, you do not believe that civilians are equal to cops under law. And you certainly don't believe that blacks should be equal under law.
The disproportional arrest of blacks for drug use is proof that in practice, black Americans are not equal under law.
4. The only laws that should exist are those protecting rights. Note that this includes public property rights, which is why pollution should be illegal. The environment is public property.
I don't remember where or not you're one of the conservatives that bitch and moan about environmental regulations, but in order to meet this criteria, you have to be against fossil fuel usage, particularly coal power plants and fracking.
5. People should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they aren't violating the rights of others. However, polluting, fraud, the open system of bribery we call lobbying, and systematically rigging the system to keep people impoverish is a violation of basic human and civil rights. In contrast, smoking weed and running around nude in public is not.
Given your statements regarding the case in which a celebrity is accused of having sex in public, you clearly do not believe in the principle that people should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they aren't violating the rights of others. You are very much in favor of the concept of victimless crimes.
It's still a liberal stance. Republican stance is pro life.
It does not matter how many times you repeat an erroneous statement, it does not become true. Both pro-life and pro-choice stances are consistent with the definition of liberalism.
The definition of liberalism has nothing to do with the arbitrary divisions of left-right politics in America or the Democratic and Republican parties. In fact, liberalism has nothing to do with America or any other particular country or culture.
And not all Republicans are pro-life. Many Republicans have had abortions or persuaded their lovers or daughters (well, same thing in red states) to get abortions.
It's still a liberal stance. Republicans are more likely to be capitalists.
Irrelevant. Even if 100% of cars where red, the definition of car would have nothing to do with color.
Sounds liberal-ish to me.
Of course it would. Like most conservatives, you have great misunderstandings of a multitude of subject matters. That's a reflection on how fucked up your world view is, not a reflection on the actual state of the world.
Peter P
2014 Oct 23, 3:38am
It does not matter how many times you repeat an erroneous statement, it does not become true.
Anything repeated enough becomes the truth.
Truth is not an attribute. It is merely a perception of those who care enough.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 5:50am
Anything repeated enough becomes the truth.
Truth is not an attribute. It is merely a perception of those who care enough.
On that we disagree. No matter how many times I say that I'm having sex with Scarlett Johansson, it's not the same thing as actually having sex with her. And it does not matter how much I desire that to be true.
I think the universe you're talking about is Green Lantern. Come to think of it, why doesn't Jordan Hal construct a green Scarlett Johansson?
Don't you have better things to do with your time than sitting around making lists of people capable of having reasoned discussions??
no
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 6:49am
Conclusion, nothing you said indicates any level of liberalism.
OK, 5 more:
6. I believe in Gay rights.
7. I believe in women's rights.
8. Full equality for all regardless of race, color, creed and whatever else.
9. Animal rights. Ban factory farms. Ban meat.
10. Universal health care.
How's that Dan? I'm more librul than you.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 7:09am
you do realize this statement gives credence to proposed voter ID laws.
If voting is a privilege
No it doesn't as voting should be a right. Two wrongs don't make a right, no pun intended.
The sole purpose of the voting ID laws is to rig elections. There is no reason why society should tolerate that.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 7:11am
Conclusion, nothing you said indicates any level of liberalism.
OK, 5 more:
6. I believe in Gay rights.
7. I believe in women's rights.
8. Full equality for all regardless of race, color, creed and whatever else.
9. Animal rights. Ban factory farms. Ban meat.
10. Universal health care.
How's that Dan? I'm more librul than you.
6 through 9 would make you somewhat liberal if they were true. Unfortunately, they clearly are not based on your own words on this site.
10 is merely an economic policy and is irrelevant to the philosophy of liberalism. You still don't comprehend that simple idea no matter how much I simplify it for you. Liberalism says NOTHING about economics.
NDrLoR
2014 Oct 23, 7:59am
Talk about getting off subject! What does any of this have to do with some kind of creature(s) at the bottom of the sea?
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 8:18am
so you have now publicly supported the voter ID issue. No getting around it.
Honey, it does not matter how you try to twist my words. Nothing I've said supports the voter suppression laws. No honest person would say such a thing and your statement is simply ridiculous.
My statement and my stance is clearly that even convicted felons should not be denied the right to vote.
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 9:01am
Conclusion, nothing you said indicates any level of liberalism.
OK, 5 more:
6. I believe in Gay rights.
7. I believe in women's rights.
8. Full equality for all regardless of race, color, creed and whatever else.
9. Animal rights. Ban factory farms. Ban meat.
10. Universal health care.
How's that Dan? I'm more librul than you.
6 through 9 would make you somewhat liberal if they were true. Unfortunately, they clearly are not based on your own words on this site.
10 is merely an economic policy and is irrelevant to the philosophy of liberalism. You still don't comprehend that simple idea no matter how much I simplify it for you. Liberalism says NOTHING about economics.
Is liberalism some kinda religion where you follow every written word based on someone hearing strange voices? You judge a liberal based on most of his beliefs, plain and simple.
By the way Universal Healthcare is a social policy, not an economic policy.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 9:31am
Is liberalism some kinda religion where you follow every written word based on someone hearing strange voices?
No, liberalism is a specific philosophy regarding what powers government should and should not have over the social interactions and activities of the people.
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 10:03am
I hate it when I can't do my own thinking and have to be part of a herd based on other peoples thinking. It becomes a lot like religion. I'm sticking to being "independent"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas such as free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property.[2][3][4][5][6]
Liberalism first became a distinct political movement during the Age of Enlightenment, when it became popular among philosophers and economists in the Western world. Liberalism rejected the notions, common at the time, of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The 17th-century philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition. Locke argued that each man has a natural right to life, liberty and property[7] and according to the social contract, governments must not violate these rights. Liberals opposed traditional conservatism and sought to replace absolutism in government with representative democracy and the rule of law.
The revolutionaries of the Glorious Revolution, American Revolution, segments of the French Revolution, and other liberal revolutionaries from that time used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of what they saw as tyrannical rule. The 19th century saw liberal governments established in nations across Europe, Spanish America, and North America.[8] In this period, the dominant ideological opponent of liberalism was classical conservatism.
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 11:35am
I hate it when I can't do my own thinking and have to be part of a herd based on other peoples thinking. It becomes a lot like religion. I'm sticking to being "independent"
Anyone who quotes Wikipedia is demonstrating mindless herd behavior and the complete lack of independent thought, not to mention intellectual sloth.
Wikipedia, the opium of the masses.
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 11:38am
I hate it when I can't do my own thinking and have to be part of a herd based on other peoples thinking. It becomes a lot like religion. I'm sticking to being "independent"
Anyone who quotes Wikipedia is demonstrating mindless herd behavior and the complete lack of independent thought, not to mention intellectual sloth.
Wikipedia, the opium of the masses.
I quote it so you can understand the simple things in life. Guess it did not work. :(
Dan8267
2014 Oct 23, 11:48am
I quote it so you can understand the simple things in life. Guess it did not work. :(
I understand differential equations, whereas you quote nonsense from a fake encyclopedia that claimed Plato was an ancient Hawaiian weatherman and a pupil of Barney the Purple Dinosaur.
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 12:00pm
I quote it so you can understand the simple things in life. Guess it did not work. :(
I understand differential equations, whereas you quote nonsense from a fake encyclopedia that claimed Plato was an ancient Hawaiian weatherman and a pupil of Barney the Purple Dinosaur.
Where? I don't see it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato
Plato (/ˈpleɪtoÊŠ/;[1] Greek: Πλάτων, PlátÅn, "broad";[2] 428/427 or 424/423 BCE[a] – 348/347 BCE) was a philosopher, as well as mathematician, in Classical Greece, and an influential figure in philosophy, central in Western philosophy. He was Socrates' student, and founded the Academy in Athens, the first institution of higher learning in the Western world. Along with Socrates and his most famous student, Aristotle, Plato helped to lay the foundations of Western philosophy and science.[3] Alfred North Whitehead once noted: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."[4]
Strategist
2014 Oct 23, 12:11pm
I quote it so you can understand the simple things in life. Guess it did not work. :(
Haven't you learned yet, the truth can ONLY be found on Youtube.
Hey, I found it for him. But will he understand?
indigenous
2014 Oct 24, 3:10am
Hey, I found it for him. But will he understand?
A truth that the video misses as does most of the political debate and that is that there is someone on the sideline who benefits from the conflict.
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