patrick.net

vs new home sales:

There's been little or no wage inflation in about two generations. Most people are already leveraged beyond safe levels, cars loans are less of a commitment/risk than a mortgage. Maybe you no longer have to own a house in the burbs to live the "American Dream"? I'm sure more federal shenanigans will follow as the housing/realtor/construction gang will demand something to save them.

Does the price of gas have anything to do with this? or because new jobs are being created? Pent up demand because people have been driving older vehicles?

indigenous says

Does the price of gas have anything to do with this? or because new jobs are being created? Pent up demand because people have been driving older vehicles?

Dont think so because car sales have been rising for the past few years during high and low gas prices

Fair enough maybe a windfall for the used car market. O's Cash for clunker killed it because of O's infinite wisdom in destroying the used cars.

Gawd what a stupid fuck.

Call it Crazy says

Just wait until Obama releases those new sub-prime home loans, then you'll see things take off!

and they start GIVING homes to "deserving families"

Mark says

I'm sure more federal shenanigans will follow as the housing/realtor/construction gang will demand something to save them.

They focused on boosting the prices of existing homes, but that made sales unaffordable

Call it Crazy says

Mark says

Most people are already leveraged beyond safe levels, cars loans are less of a commitment/risk than a mortgage.

Plus, you can live in your car when you lose your house!

Yep people forgo homes for cars. I wonder if trailer sales/mobile homes are up.

Mortgage Reduction Program Would Be Limited, Housing Regulator Says

http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2015/02/04/mortgage-reduction-program-would-be-limited-housing-regulator-says/?mod=WSJ_Real%20Estate_BLOGSDEVELOPMENTSFEED

I guess there is no prestige in using uber and saving money. I calculated that even with heavy commuting, my monthly uber expenditure would be 500 per month(assuming I used it to go grocery shopping 1x per week and going to gym3x/week, in addition to work).

What car could I get for 500/month when I calculate the cost of gas, which is about 60/month, Insurance is about 1800/year and Maintenance is about 1200-1500/ year?

3.5-4K/yr. This is what it costs to run my wife's 2007 Honda Civic that is fully paid off and running well.

Getting a new car with a 400 dollar monthly payment and comparable gas and insurance expenditure would be over 7K per year. This is not including interest. Using uber heavily would still be cheaper over a 5 year period, assuming that you could pay off the car in that time frame.

MMR says

Getting a new car with a 400 dollar monthly payment and comparable gas and insurance expenditure would be over 7K per year. This is not including interest. Using uber heavily would still be cheaper over a 5 year period, assuming that you could pay off the car in that time frame.

good analysis, but it assumes you only need a car for commuting

The real bottom line here is this....In the second half of the 20th century saw most Americans not in the top 10% lose their purchasing power. You can try to disguise it all you want to, but we becoming a nation of much poorer people.
Before the 20th century we were a nation of renters, we'll likely return to that.

Mark says

In the second half of the 20th century saw most Americans not in the top 10% lose their purchasing power. You can try to disguise it all you want to, but we becoming a nation of much poorer people.

Two wage earners have less buying power than one in 1970

Call it Crazy says

encourages spending and default

Call it Crazy says

smaulgld says

encourages spending and default

I think those subprime buyers have the "default" part figured out!!

That's why they're subprime buyers...

will be plenty of those in the new 3% down freddie mac/fannie mae mortgage progrm

indigenous says

Fair enough maybe a windfall for the used car market. O's Cash for clunker killed it because of O's infinite wisdom in destroying the used cars.

Gawd what a stupid fuck.

Cash for clunkers was a dopey scam, but it didn't really take a lot of actual reliable transportation out of circulation unless you consider SUVs, pick ups, Jeeps, and Ford/Dodge minivans as great transportation vehicles. Here's what was the bulk of clunkered cars:

1. Ford Explorer 4WD
2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
4. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
5. Ford Explorer 2WD
6. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan
7. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
8. Ford F-150 Pickup 4WD
9. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
10. Ford Windstar

This list is a lot of Woof! Woof!

Only 690,000 cars were taken out of circulation. Compare that to how many used cars are sold on a yearly basis--it's less than 2% of inventory taken out of the market for any given year:

•2000: 41,620,429
•2001: 42,624,116
•2002: 43,025,087
•2003: 43,571,652
•2004: 42,706,103
•2005: 44,138,263
•2006: 42,565,544
•2007: 41,418,561
•2008: 36,530,404
•2009: 35,589,149

So the program had little effect in taking good, reliable, entry-level transportation out of the market place. 2% is horse puckey, and a bunch of '90s SUVs are not going to be missed.

The program had little effect, period. What was really awful is these cars got shredded instead of recycled, and so was probably a net loss to environmental objectives.

I read that it killed it back then but your numbers would not indicate that that was true, fair enough.

Call it Crazy says

Just wait until Obama releases those new sub-prime home loans, then you'll see things take off!

Awesome, I can hardly wait. Thanks Obama, I knew you would eventually figure it out.

MMR says

I guess there is no prestige in using uber and saving money. I calculated that even with heavy commuting, my monthly uber expenditure would be 500 per month(assuming I used it to go grocery shopping 1x per week and going to gym3x/week, in addition to work).

What car could I get for 500/month when I calculate the cost of gas, which is about 60/month, Insurance is about 1800/year and Maintenance is about 1200-1500/ year?

3.5-4K/yr. This is what it costs to run my wife's 2007 Honda Civic that is fully paid off and running well.

Getting a new car with a 400 dollar monthly payment and comparable gas and insurance expenditure would be over 7K per year. This is not including interest. Using uber heavily would still be cheaper over a 5 year period, assuming that you could pay off the car in that time frame.

How much does Uber normally charge per mile? The average car is driven 1200 miles per month. I think Uber and Zip cars is a good replacement for 2nd and 3rd cars.

Philistine says

ash for clunkers was a dopey scam, but it didn't really take a lot of actual reliable transportation out of circulation unless you consider SUVs, pick ups, Jeeps, and Ford/Dodge minivans as great transportation vehicles.

What were the years of these cars?

And was this a bipartisan initiative?

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

How much does Uber normally charge per mile?

Before or after surge pricing?

Before. OK, here it is.
https://www.uber.com/cities/los-angeles

Strategist says

How much does Uber normally charge per mile? The average car is driven 1200 miles per month. I think Uber and Zip cars is a good replacement for 2nd and 3rd cars.

The base rate is 1.15 and the per minute wait is 0.16 and 0.95 per mile. I was just using strictly for commuting and I was going about 350 miles per month (rough estimate). Going to gym and coming back 3x/week and going grocery shopping once per week would add about another 100 miles to that.

Exactly, uber is a good substitute for a second car. In my case, I used it almost strictly for commuting for work.

As for surge pricing, I usually wait it out. But that has only happened a couple times during the past several months. Waiting 15-30 minutes would usually suffice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDpmhbBM60U

This used car salesman would make a good Realtor.

Philistine says

So the program had little effect in taking good, reliable, entry-level transportation out of the market place. 2% is horse puckey, and a bunch of '90s SUVs are not going to be missed.

Most of those were dead or dying anyway.

Autos will be next on the "too expensive" to own list. Here where I live (Louisiana) you see lots of clunkers that look like they are held together by bungie cords.
Not unusual to see 30 year old cars in poor areas. My car is 2010 model which I bough used. I plan to run into the ground.

Call it Crazy says

And now, you're taking a car service to the GYM???? What the hell, man up, and RUN to the gym!!! :)

I rarely use uber for the purpose of going to the gym. We use the paid off 4 years ago Honda civic for that purpose. If I had used uber, it would have added more money to my monthly expenditure on transportation, but not that much.

I have relocated temporarily from NYC to Atlanta and much of Atlanta is not walkable(or runnable), as a good portion lack sidewalks. This is the city where Margaret Mitchell of 'Gone With the Wind' fame was run over by a car in 1949. While the infrastructure 'improved somewhat' in Midtown over the last 60 years, the 3 mile radius around Emory University is basically the same as it was from that era, where I currently live.

Mark says

Autos will be next on the "too expensive" to own list. Here where I live (Louisiana) you see lots of clunkers that look like they are held together by bungie cords.

Not unusual to see 30 year old cars in poor areas. My car is 2010 model which I bough used. I plan to run into the ground.

Almost Anything financed eventually becomes too expensive
Thirty years ago many cars were bought with saved cash

smaulgld says

Almost Anything financed eventually becomes too expensive

Thirty years ago many cars were bought with saved cash

Nope, in 1984 many cars were not bought with saved cash. At least not new cars. I paid cash for a new 1980 rabbit and the dealer was shocked. They thought I was crrazy and kept trying to talk me into a loan. Maybe in the 1950's but I doubt it.

-Nope, in 1984 many cars were not bought with saved cash.-

Absolutely they were. I interned summers 1981-1984 in the business office of the largest dealer chain in the NY/NJ metro and well over half the sales were cash and downpayments were in excess of 40% for the remainder that financed.

bob2356 says

smaulgld says

Almost Anything financed eventually becomes too expensive

Thirty years ago many cars were bought with saved cash

Nope, in 1984 many cars were not bought with saved cash. At least not new cars. I paid cash for a new 1980 rabbit and the dealer was shocked. They thought I was crrazy and kept trying to talk me into a loan. Maybe in the 1950's but I doubt it.

it's all relative-clearly more new cars are financed today than in the past. Car prices, are at all time high prices, while computers which are not purchased through financing are cheaper and better

Man that says something about the standard of living...

Thanks Fed, I know you mutts are going to say that was not the case, true that the global economy was going to change things no matter what, but if you think the Fed and the floating exchange rate are irrelevant, you need to get your head out of your ass.

smaulgld says

Car prices, are at all time high prices

I thought they were held down by the luxury tax? Generally speaking technology keeps the prices down.

indigenous says

smaulgld says

Car prices, are at all time high prices

I thought they were held down by the luxury tax? Generally speaking technology keeps the prices down.

Car prices are at an all time high and you would think technology and materials and manufacturing innovations would keep car prices low

The long term trend on those charts don't look so good.

Cars: The affordable, mobile home solution.

Car payments are almost as pricey as mortgage payments and there is no annual tax other than registration

smaulgld says

New Car Sales Soar/New Home Sales Don't

Americans are stupid. Imagine spending more on a car, an asset guaranteed to lose value, vs. a home that generally increases in value.

Call it Crazy says

*

Really? Still think so?

I think I'd rather have that car...

I just changed my mind. :(