patrick.net

bullshit. the only reason they got spanked is for being stupid in the first place...

Dan8267 says

Spanking, it's not only lazy-ass parenting, it also permanently harms children.

SoftShell says

bullshit. the only reason they got spanked is for being stupid in the first place...

With that kind of reasoning, we might as well just disregard two peer-review scientific studies that span decades of research. I mean, what the hell is science and evidence compared to such an elegant assertion from a random troll on an Internet forum?

Predictable and lame put-down. The problem with your premise is that liberals don't spank and conservatives do. 'Nuff said.

Liberals don't spank, they just nauseate their children, setting in motion a powerful and permanent aversive response.

The smarter kids just managed to get their dumber siblings spanked instead of them.

This study doesn't have a priori idiocy controls, especially for the researchers.

My parents never spanked me and I turned out to be a law-abiding, success software developer with a six figure income since a few days after I graduated from college. Not too shabby.

Once again, CIC demonstrates that conservatives must make up bold lies to justify their delusional beliefs.

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

My parents never spanked me and I turned out to be a law-abiding, success software developer with a six figure income since a few days after I graduated from college. Not too shabby.

Well, no one can say that you don't have a vivid imagination...

Yes, a six figure salary must seem like an impossible dream to an unemployed bum like you living in a box outside a K-Mart in New Jersey.

But you'd be surprise what a high school diploma can do.

some things don't require studies, but we won't let that stop the flow of wasted taxpayer funds into academia..
think about it...way more often than not, you're getting spanked for doing something you know to be wrong...IOW, you've acted stupid, which supports the assertion that the kids were stupid before getting spanked.
whoever designed the study doesn't deserve to be spanked...they deserve to have a boot shoved up their ass...

Dan8267 says

SoftShell says

bullshit. the only reason they got spanked is for being stupid in the first place...

With that kind of reasoning, we might as well just disregard two peer-review scientific studies that span decades of research. I mean, what the hell is science and evidence compared to such an ele gant assertion from a random troll on an Internet forum?

SoftShell says

some things don't require studies

If you're not going to read the article, at least read the block quote.

This analysis, conducted at the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario in Ottawa, offers new evidence that corporal punishment causes cognitive impairment and long-term developmental difficulties.

According to the report, spanking may reduce the brain's grey matter, the connective tissue between brain cells.

ok, i read the block quotes...this is the most damning evidence that supports the conclusions drawn by the studies.
Dan8267 says

According to the report, spanking may reduce the brain's grey matter, the connective tissue between brain cells.

IOW, they don't have a clue about the physical processes that MAY have caused a reduction in grey matter. They just took stupidity measurement tests before and after the timeline.
The most likely scenario at this point, is still my hypothesis that the more stupid the kid was ( prior to spanking ), the more he got spanked for doing stupid things.

now i gotta read the article to see if i fucked up...

I'm good to go...both articles offered up speculation only, no evidence of decreased grey matter.
occams razor rules.

Dan8267 says

Want your kids to be dumb? Spank them.

Were you ever spanked as a child? If so, how did it affect you?

Reading this thread made me dumber.

Call it Crazy says

Don't really remember, the high school diploma was years before my two engineering degrees.

The implication here is you have 2 bachelor's degrees in separate engineering fields of study. That is pretty ridiculous. There are very little if any benefits to getting dual engineering degrees while in undergrad. No employer is going to think - hey, this candidate has a BS in both EE and MCE, so even though we are looking for an EE, we should hire him.

No MS degree program in engineering that I am aware of requires a BS in the exact engineering field in which you intend to get the MS. Therefore if you have a BS in EE, you wouldn't go back to get a BS in MCE. If you wanted to change career paths, you'd get a MS in MCE, its likely cheaper, faster, and would likely not carry general education requirements. Additionally, no one who has a masters degree on top of the bachelors says "I have two degrees." They say "I have a masters degree."

Besides, highly doubtful someone with your demonstrated math deficiencies passes diff eq or statics.

It goes to show that liberals are willing to engage in any form of scientific fakery to pursue an agenda. The next thing, they will be saying the world isn't flat and that we evolved from lower species.

Call it Crazy says

Oh, those peer-reviewed studies again...

When does this happen with the Fake peer-reviewed Global Warming papers?

Global Warming has been proven by thousands of peer-reviewed papers with many independent lines of evidence. You are simply throwing red herrings into the discussion as a distraction. Like always, you lie.

Eat shit Crazy says

Dan8267 says

But you'd be surprise what a high school diploma can do.

Sorry, Dan, but you're wrong. It's a surprise he will never have. High school grads are elitists in his opinion. Just ask his kids, they'll tell ya.

We all know CIC beats his kids and was beaten by his parents. He's more evidence the scientific studies are right.

Call it Crazy says

Dan's a liberal, he can't make that connection to logic!

What you call logic is actually an assertion, and I already refuted it.

SoftShell says

IOW, they don't have a clue about the physical processes that MAY have caused a reduction in grey matter.

This is how articles about scientific studies are written. A study is done and it is peer-reviewed. If the study holds up, the press discusses the study using words like may and might to reflect the fact that the scientific method dictates that further studies will be done to confirm the results. That's how science works.

The evidence presented by the papers is compelling. In contrast, you offer only assertions and assumptions.

Just because you don't want spanking to stop, doesn't mean it isn't harmful. It just means that dumb asses like you will continue to spank kids even knowing that you are harming them because your desire to spank them outweighs your concern for their well-being.

SoftShell says

now i gotta read the article to see if i fucked up...

You don't have to read the article to see if you are fucked up. Anyone on this site can tell you that.

Call it Crazy says

Don't really remember, the high school diploma was years before my two engineering degrees.

Now who's dreaming. You are simply too stupid to have a degree in anything, nonetheless engineering.

SoftShell says

I'm good to go...both articles offered up speculation only, no evidence of decreased grey matter.

occams razor rules.

Like most people who refer to Occam's Razor, you clearly don't know what that principle is. Occam's Razor does not say the simpler explanation is correct or the simpler choice is right. Occam's Razor says, "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.", which means that if two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better.

Your theory that spanking does not lower IQs does not make the same prediction as the theory that spanking does lower IQs. In fact, your conjecture makes predictions that contradict the opposing theory! Hence, Occam's Razor does not even remotely apply.

komputodo says

Dan8267 says

Want your kids to be dumb? Spank them.

Were you ever spanked as a child? If so, how did it affect you?

Keep your pedophilic fantasies to yourself.

dodgerfanjohn says

Reading this thread made me dumber.

I apologize for CIC's posts. I'm not doing my duty as moderator to delete them on sight.

control point says

Call it Crazy says

Don't really remember, the high school diploma was years before my two engineering degrees.

The implication here is you have 2 bachelor's degrees in separate engineering fields of study. That is pretty ridiculous. There are very little if any benefits to getting dual engineering degrees while in undergrad. No employer is going to think - hey, this candidate has a BS in both EE and MCE, so even though we are looking for an EE, we should hire him.

CIC having even one degree is ridiculous unless that degree was in animal husbandry. I hear his thesis was on the oral milking of bulls.

Since Dan doesn't have kids, I don't think he is qualified to comment on this.
Sometime a couple of points of IQ are a nice compromise against a lot of points of narcissistic assholeness.

If that were so, then the Melinial Gen would be freaking geniuses, ass whoopings have been illegal for well over 15 years or more, they are the net result of the first batch, since humanity began. By the tone of your own post, they Win the "we broke it" award.

Heraclitusstudent says

Since Dan doesn't have kids, I don't think he is qualified to comment on this.

That's a cop-out. You might as well say that if you're not a rapist, you are unqualified to judge rapists; if your not a president; you are unqualified to judge presidents; if you're not a worker at a day care center, you are unqualified to judge day care centers.

People judge the job performance, criminal guilt, and policy making decisions of others without having performed the job themselves all the time. If they didn't, no one could ever vote. No one could ever make a consumer decision. No student could choose a college because he's never been a teacher. Your troupe, although commonly used, is completely ridiculous.

It also shows that your position is weak. If you have to resort to saying "unless your a parent you can't judge parents" then you have no real counter-arguments. That argument is weak tea. It is a baseless assertion that is empirically incorrect and has no underlying logic or evidence to back it up. If you had a legitimate argument to make, you would have made it instead of copping out.

If anything, not being a parent makes me more qualified to judge parents because I'm objective. I don't have to protect my ego by not criticizing parents for mistakes I've made myself. There are reasons why we only let people serve on a jury if they aren't involved in the case being tried. Your assertion implies that only people involved in a case being tried should be on the jury. That's how ridiculous the inescapable conclusions of your cop-out are.

Furthermore, it is not I who conducted the study that demonstrated that spanking lowers intelligence. Attacking me does not in any way discredit the studies or their conclusions. Only fools attack the messenger while letting the message go unchallenged.

Heraclitusstudent says

Sometime a couple of points of IQ are a nice compromise against a lot of points of narcissistic assholeness.

First, it would be immoral and despicable to harm a child for life in order to "correct" his or her behavior.

Second, as the studies show, spanking actually makes the child's behavior worse.

Medical professionals investigating the long-term effects of spanking have consistently found a link (link is external) between corporal punishment and increased aggression in children. Such "educational" discipline correlates to higher levels of acting out in school and trouble in academic performance. It predicts vulnerability to depression, typically in girls, and antisocial tendencies usually manifest in boys.

To dumb that down for you, spanking makes kids into criminal juvenile delinquents, more likely to get into fights, join gangs, commit suicide, or engage in violence.

Finally, it's worth noting that all those who have written pro-spanking posts in this thread are from the less intelligent subset of PatNet users. I suspect this sampling holds true for the population in general.

Call it Crazy says

Nominated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the most retarded thing I've ever heard, and I've watched all the 2016 Republican candidates give speeches even Trump.

Dis Daddy Bush spank W all the time or what?

georgeliberte says

Dis Daddy Bush spank W all the time or what?

I think Barbara did, and well into her kid's forties, and not for discipline.

Dan8267 says

That's a cop-out. You might as well say that if you're not a rapist, you are unqualified to judge rapists

Yeah, because spanking is like rape. Nice comparison.
Or maybe you're like the armchair athlete that complains about how the actual athlete hits the ball.

Heraclitusstudent says

Yeah, because spanking is like rape. Nice comparison.

Dummy, I wasn't comparing spanking to rape. I was applying your reasoning to other situations including rape and demonstrating that the rule you are proposing has consequences that you yourself do not accept. Work on your English comprehension skills.

Heraclitusstudent says

Or maybe you're like the armchair athlete that complains about how the actual athlete hits the ball.

Every person who votes in any election is an armchair quarterback. That's what voting is. It's judging the decision making of public office holders even though you aren't one of them. Your assertion does not just condemn childless adults from judging parents, but also condemns anyone who votes that doesn't hold public office. That's why you and your premise are so damn stupid.

And by the way, childless adults can and do serve in juries on child-abuse trials. On those juries, childless adults do judge parents on their parenting.

To clarify, if we actually followed the foolish rule you are proposing, no one who didn't commit rape would serve as a judge, jury, or prosecutor on a rape case. And how many rape convictions would you get under that system?

I don't have to be a parent to know that physically or mentally abusing a child is wrong. I don't have to be a rape victim to know that rape is wrong. And I don't have to be an abuser or rapist to judge those who do commit these acts.

Hell, by your premise, only bankers would be allowed to condemn bankers. Only real estate agents would be allowed to criticize real estate agents. Your premise is stupid and bigoted.

Lead Poisoning is a Lie!

Here is the guy who used the ratio of Lead/Uranium in rocks to date the age of the Earth:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_Cameron_Patterson

He was puzzled as to why surface areas and shallow water bodies had such a high concentration of lead, but deeper waters and ice samples from hundreds and thousands of years ago, did not. He postulated it was because of lead additives in Petroleum products and Paint. Lead attaches itself cells in the body, esp. fatty tissue in the brain, preventing these cells from absorbing other nutrients.

The Petroleum Industry hired Robert Kehoe to dismiss all allegations of both lead's harm, and the prevalence of lead due to it's use as an anti-knocking additive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Kehoe

This was mostly done at the Kettering Institute. The Petroleum industry was able to keep lead in widespread use for more than 50 years

Another Kettering/Kehoe project: Dismissing claims that Freon had an impact on the Earth's atmosphere.

Modern western psychology is not science - it stopped applying any scientific measures long ago and is mainly a politically correct mainstreamed money-making machine. It is well-known that Eastern/Asian parenting is strict and aggressive compared to modern western parenting, and for decades Asians have been outperforming Caucasians in pretty much all tests and degrees. They also usually have the lowest crime rates (to be fair this may be also in part due to lesser dihydrotestosterone levels). As far as overall aggressive behavior goes, that is likely linked to testosterone levels (and specifically the conversion rate to dihydrotestosterone), which have been declining over the past decades. I'm not advocating excessive spanking, but I call BS on that one. Any correlations that may have been observed here are likely due to the fact that you need more disciplinarian measures in troubled, not too bright kids to begin with as mentioned before. Also it seems that - and any math-wiz pls correct me if I'm wrong - that the 2.8 points difference are well within the statistical margin of error for a sample size of 700 and an average IQ of 100 and thus not statistically significant.

thunderlips11 says

The Petroleum Industry hired Robert Kehoe to dismiss all allegations of both lead's harm, and the prevalence of lead due to it's use as an anti-knocking additive ... The Petroleum industry was able to keep lead in widespread use for more than 50 years.

Ja, but this isn't evil, because it was a private entity that did this. The CEO and all his reports have one, and only one duty: to the shareholders of the company. Morality, basic decency, and injunctions against genocide are non-binding on corporate management.

Besides, not killing people and poisoning children costs jobs.

Therefore the findings that lead is neutral (it's actually good for you!) are sound science.

Compassionate Conservative. Reformer with Results.

mell says

It is well-known that Eastern/Asian parenting is strict and aggressive compared to modern western parenting, and for decades Asians have been outperforming Caucasians in pretty much all tests and degrees

The tiger parenting is not about spankings or beatings, it's more about verbal abuse and more if the robot (i mean child) does not conform to expected standards, behaviors, manners and activities. I would expect that it will prove to be less effective with each passing generation in U.S. simply because united states is an individualistic society while most asian cultures are communal/collectivist hence why shaming and verbal aggression tend to be more effective there.

dublin hillz says

, and for decades Asians have been outperforming Caucasians in pretty much all tests and degrees

The key here is for decades...

Those decades are long behind them. The American lifestyle has eaten away that illusion of smarter Asian students like brain cancer.

I saw an Asian dude on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" a few weeks ago. Just as dumb as you or anyone else.
I'm sure he'll get the job on slanted eyes alone though.

Dan8267 says

My parents never spanked me and I turned out to be a law-abiding, success software developer with a six figure income since a few days after I graduated from college. Not too shabby.

Once again, CIC demonstrates that conservatives must make up bold lies to justify their delusional beliefs.

Plenty of people got spanked and did a lot better than you. And they are smart enough not to be Obama worshipping liberals. You are not exactly a benchmark for success Dan.

Call it Crazy says

SoftShell says

spanking may reduce the brain's grey matter

For Dan, "may" is as definite as it gets!

If liberals like the hypothesis they hear they call it a fact even if it's wrong. But if a fact they don't like proves to be true, they'll argue to death that it is wrong.

Neither South Korea nor Japan have anywhere like the innovation and inventiveness of Sweden, Israel, the US, France, or most Western Countries. They are near the bottom on Patent Licensing and Entrepreneurship.

They do good on one thing, however: Developing Products based on Consumer Feedback.

FortWayne says

Plenty of people got spanked and did a lot better than you. And they are smart enough not to be Obama worshipping liberals. You are not exactly a benchmark for success Dan.

Honey, I know where I rate on the percent scale and I've always done better than 85% of the country and that's competing with dual income families and doing something ethical and productive for a living. My siblings also have done well, with one being an engineer, another a biochemist, and the third a doctor. 'Nuff said. Parenting without child-abuse works.

More importantly, the science -- and I know you hate science -- shows that spanking causes children to do worse. And that is what matters.

The question you should really ask yourself is do you enjoy spanking your kids more than you love them and want them to have a good life? I think we all know the answer to that question. Spanking's sole purpose is the enjoyment of sadistic parents. Anyone who actually wanted their children be be better, more successful, and happier people would not spank.

Dan8267 says

The question you should really ask yourself is do you enjoy spanking your kids more than you love them and want them to have a good life? I think we all know the answer to that question. Spanking's sole purpose is the enjoyment of sadistic parents.

You say because you never had a 3 yrs old wrest his hands out of yours and run into the traffic while laughing at you. Or spate in the face of an old man in the subway. You never had to deal with a stupid tantrum at 3 in the morning.
You think you know, but you don't. You have absolutely no idea how you would feel or react.
You're just a very naive person who has 0 experience but thinks reading an article on he Internet qualifies him to tell actual parents how to do parenting.
Thank you very much for your advices. You can keep them for when you have your own kids.

Heraclitusstudent says

You say because you never had a 3 yrs old wrest his hands out of yours and run into the traffic while laughing at you.

If the only way you can keep control of your three-year-old is by beating him, you are just a bad parent and should never have reproduced.

Heraclitusstudent says

You're just a very naive person who has 0 experience but thinks reading an article on he Internet qualifies him to tell actual parents how to do parenting.

Once more you resort to the cop-out. And quite the hypocrisy. You express opinions on politics all the time, yet you have 0 experience being a president or a senator. If you had any defense for your position, you would present an actual argument instead of copping out.

So when I'm on the jury judging the cop who shot your unarmed, sleeping kid dead, should I vote not guilty no matter what evidence is presented because I've never been a cop and don't know how tough it is? You are a hypocrite and a moron. Following your edicts would turn our country into a Mad Max dystopia.

Oh, and by the way, a third of parents, the better ones, disapprove of spanking children, so even just looking at parents, your premise that anyone with the experience of being a parent knows that you have to spank them is empirically false, dumb ass. Of course, popularity does not trump science.

The one thing I've noticed on this thread is that every single person advocating spanking kids is a moron who should have never reproduced in the first place. That can't be coincidence.

CiC's parents must have spanked him 4-6 hours each day, and 10 on weekends. Really epic, savage, sustained whippings, with blood droplets sprayed against the baseboards. Thousands of worn-out paddles and belts. Debilitating tendinitis in the wrists, elbows and shoulders. Callused hands and split fingernails.

Beat, beat, beat. Spring into summer, fall, winter, rain or shine, miniskirts or dresses, equities or bonds, boxers or briefs. Beat like the mother of all red-headed stepchildren.

In the great socialist paradise, the kids spank their parents and report their parents' deviant thoughts to the great and good leaders, so that the parents can "go to camp" to be re-programmed. That's where this is headed, comrade..

Italian descent living in Vegas lambasting yiddyfucks and denigrating falseflags....I don't see the connections...

bgamall4 says

And don't know who yo are,

The only problem with your statement is that it is not my theory. My positions are:
1- kids being spanked by well meaning parents ( not sadists) are more likely being spanked for doing something stupid, therefore confirming they were stupid prior to being spanked.
2- neither article demonstrates the process of how grey matter is reduced via spanking. For fucks sake they never even measured it. Their results are pure speculation equivalent to, but not more believable than #1 above.
Dan8267 says

Your theory that spanking does not lower IQs does not make the same prediction as the theory that spanking does lower IQs.