patrick.net

FJB says

I have German in-laws, cousins etc., who never protested it.

You mean they never protested against the killing of people?

richwicks says

Our modern propaganda doesn't survive forever, but I think the Holocaust, that propaganda will because it still serves a purpose.

What purpose does it serve?
I have visited to the holocaust museum in DC. The displays are real, right?

gabbar says

richwicks says

Our modern propaganda doesn't survive forever, but I think the Holocaust, that propaganda will because it still serves a purpose.

What purpose does it serve?
I have visited to the holocaust museum in DC. The displays are real, right?

Some of the displays are real I would guess.

I really don't know precisely what happened in WWII, I only know I've been lied to - to what extent? That's a lifetime of figuring out.

Let me give you something to think about. The Nazis went through extraordinary effort to hide the bodies, but why would they keep all those shoes? Every holocaust museum I've ever seen had a mound of shoes. The shoes are old, worn out, and useless. Why would the Nazis save them? Why weren't they thrown into the crematoriums?

Once these questions start to get asked you start to wonder about the narrative. I know, for example, that the accepted number of Jewish deaths in the 1960's was considered to be 2 trillion, it was the 70's where the number was slowly being inflated until we got to 6 million.

And what purpose does the modern propaganda serve? It's protection for Israel and for Jewish oligarchs in general. You can't even discuss Soros on television because he's Jewish. He's a criminal first and foremost, and Jewish second. In 1/2 the states of the United States you can be fired from your job if you speak negatively about Israel. Israel is one of the worst things that have happened to this country in that they openly oppose free speech. The ADL will attack you if you openly discuss Israel in any negative light.

I consider Israel a rogue state, hell, I consider the US to be one at this point.

richwicks says

Every holocaust museum I've ever seen had a mound of shoes. The shoes are old, worn out, and useless. Why would the Nazis save them? Why weren't they thrown into the crematoriums?

I never asked myself that question. Now that I do, I can't think of a possible reason

richwicks says

nd what purpose does the modern propaganda serve? It's protection for Israel and for Jewish oligarchs in general. You can't even discuss Soros on television because he's Jewish. He's a criminal first and foremost, and Jewish second. In 1/2 the states of the United States you can be fired from your job if you speak negatively about Israel. Israel is one of the worst things that have happened to this country in that they openly oppose free speech. The ADL will attack you if you openly discuss Israel in any negative light.

I have seen an email between Soros and Hillary Clinton, I think. This was an email that was leaked by Julian Assange/Wikileaks.

richwicks says

In 1/2 the states of the United States you can be fired from your job if you speak negatively about Israel.

I have a feeling that Jewish people, festivals, traditions are considered special. I live in a town where there are lot of Jewish people. I personally get along fine with them because we share common enemies, I reckon and it has always been like this. I do have some German friends who have a stereotype about Jewish women. But how did we get to a point where Israel is considered holy?

gabbar says

richwicks says

Every holocaust museum I've ever seen had a mound of shoes. The shoes are old, worn out, and useless. Why would the Nazis save them? Why weren't they thrown into the crematoriums?

I never asked myself that question. Now that I do, I can't think of a possible reason

Somebody once pointed this out to me and it made me pause and think. I was already teetering on the edge about the narrative, but it's a very good point.

There is a danger though going down this path. All you know, is you've been deceived, and it's natural to assume EVERYTHING was a lie - but I find that very unlikely. Jewish people did suffer and die in concentration camps, but so did atheists, homosexuals, Poles, Gypsies, the list goes on. It's a FICTION that the Jews were the most brutalized I think. Everybody was brutalized but they were brutalized.

Don't slide down that slippery slope and concluded "it's all false" - it can't be but we are lied to a lot.

gabbar says

But how did we get to a point where Israel is considered holy?

There's some geopolitical significance in Israel, I don't know what it is precisely. It's our foot in the door of the Middle East.

The US doesn't care about human rights, they don't care if the Israelis wipe out the Palestinians, it's some military advantage of some sort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7se4gFTCys&source=patrick.net
We are going to have a war on terror which you can never win, and so you can always keep taking people's liberties away. The media is going to convince everybody that the war on terror is real. The ultimate goal is to get everybody in the world chipped with an RFID chip, and have all money be on the chips, and if anyone wants to protest what we do, we turn off the chip. - Nicholas Rockefeller to producer Aaron Russo - eleven months before the 9/11 World Trade Center attacks

richwicks says

Jewish people did suffer and die in concentration camps, but so did atheists, homosexuals, Poles, Gypsies, the list goes on. It's a FICTION that the Jews were the most brutalized I think. Everybody was brutalized but they were brutalized.

Don't slide down that slippery slope and concluded "it's all false" - it can't be but we are lied to a lot.

I hear you. There is more than enough information that shows that Jewish people did suffer. And No, I am not thinking that everything is a lie. There is truth and there is lie.

An interesting quote.

The streets of our country are in turmoil. The universities are filled with students rebelling and rioting. Communists are seeking to destroy our country. Russia is threatening us with her might. And the republic is in danger. Yes! danger from within and without. We need law and order! Without law and order our nation cannot survive. There was prolonged applause. When the applause died down, the student quietly told his listeners: "These words were spoken in 1932 by Adolf Hitler." – Page 90, Declarations of Independence by Howard Zinn

For the trail jogger, from Stio. (Her fastest time ever.)

gabbar says

richwicks says

Jewish people did suffer and die in concentration camps, but so did atheists, homosexuals, Poles, Gypsies, the list goes on. It's a FICTION that the Jews were the most brutalized I think. Everybody was brutalized but they were brutalized.

Don't slide down that slippery slope and concluded "it's all false" - it can't be but we are lied to a lot.

I hear you. There is more than enough information that shows that Jewish people did suffer. And No, I am not thinking that everything is a lie. There is truth and there is lie.

That's my opinion too. Clearly Jews were massacred in large numbers, but the other massacres are largely ignored.

When I visited my grandmother's hometown in Poland, the Poles were quite eager to tell me about the massive number of Poles killed by the Nazis, including two of my own relatives. We just don't hear about that particular massacre over here.

Patrick says

When I visited my grandmother's hometown in Poland, the Poles were quite eager to tell me about the massive number of Poles killed by the Nazis, including two of my own relatives. We just don't hear about that particular massacre over here.

So why is there a sense among people that Jewish deaths are more troubling than Polish deaths? Is it because of propaganda? 90% of the people killed in Afghanistan were civilians. Obama bombed Syria...silence. Addition of fuel to the fire in Ukraine....silence.

gabbar says

I have visited to the holocaust museum in DC. The displays are real, right?

Yes, but why is the Holocaust Museum in DC? America is not responsible for the Holocaust, but instead lost soldiers helping to end the Nazi regime and end the Holocaust. The fact that the museum is political is also evidenced by there being no Holodomor Museum, no Rwanda Genicide Museum, no Armenian Genocide Museum, no Japanese Nanking Museum, and so on.

HeadSet says

Yes, but why is the Holocaust Museum in DC? America is not responsible for the Holocaust, but instead lost soldiers helping to end the Nazi regime and end the Holocaust. The fact that the museum is political is also evidenced by there being no Holodomor Museum, no Rwanda Genicide Museum, no Armenian Genocide Museum, no Japanese Nanking Museum, and so on.

Good point. It is widely believed among some Muslim peoples that US is "run by Jews" (Holocaust Museum being in DC is the evidence). I am not a Muslim. I know that Jews are rich financially, are cognitively sharp, have a strong culture and dominate Hollywood. What do you think about this perception among the Muslim?

gabbar says

So why is there a sense among people that Jewish deaths are more troubling than Polish deaths?

I think it's because the media and especially the movie business are very heavily Jewish. Of course their promote their own victimhood above others. I think any group that had that power would do the same. The Armenians certainly would. They do not like the fact that pretty much nobody pays attention to their genocide.

HeadSet says

Yes, but why is the Holocaust Museum in DC? America is not responsible for the Holocaust, but instead lost soldiers helping to end the Nazi regime and end the Holocaust.

Yes, it's clearly political, intended to promote support for Israel in the US.

That doesn't bother me much, but what does bother me is that the true root causes are never clearly explained in that museum or any other material promoted to the public.

A typical genocide needs only a wealthy and exclusive minority group, a radical group seeking power, and economic stress. The radicals use the stress to blame the minority and gain power. Religious differences inflame existing tensions.

Patrick says

I think it's because the media and especially the movie business are very heavily Jewish. Of course their promote their own victimhood above others. I think any group that had that power would do the same. The Armenians certainly would. They do not like the fact that pretty much nobody pays attention to their genocide.

Agree, Jews are free to promote their victim-hood using the resources they have. If I were Jew, I would do it too.

gabbar says

It is widely believed among some Muslim peoples that US is "run by Jews" (Holocaust Museum being in DC is the evidence). I am not a Muslim. I know that Jews are rich financially, are cognitively sharp, have a strong culture and dominate Hollywood. What do you think about this perception among the Muslim?

"Run by Jews" is putting the case far too strongly, but Jews are very disproportionately represented among the US elite. Jews are about 2% of the US population, but about 30% of Ivy League students, for example. Jews do also tend to be better off than most, and that is probably because of both the culture, which values financial success, and genes. Call me racist, but I'm pretty sure that Jews are generally smarter than average and that it's genetic. And they definitely dominate Hollywood. That's no secret. There are mainstream books about it:

When Israels formation was up for a vote they extorted and threatened every delegate that wouldn't go along including Truman by voting as a block in NY and using press next election cycle if he went against them.

Muslims pretty much got along with Jews until Jews started creating Israel.

Patrick says

Call me racist, but I'm pretty sure that Jews are generally smarter than average and that it's genetic.

I agree. I am friends with a Jewish family. Their kid is a Math genius and very polite too. Going to Harvard to study Math in August.

RC2006 says

Muslims pretty much got along with Jews until Jews started creating Israel.

I don't know if Muslims got along with Jews before pre-Israel. The hatred of Jews is built into Islamic religious literature.

Patrick says

That's my opinion too. Clearly Jews were massacred in large numbers, but the other massacres are largely ignored.

When I visited my grandmother's hometown in Poland, the Poles were quite eager to tell me about the massive number of Poles killed by the Nazis, including two of my own relatives. We just don't hear about that particular massacre over here.

Because a certain ethnic group controls the media....

gabbar says

RC2006 says

Muslims pretty much got along with Jews until Jews started creating Israel.

I don't know if Muslims got along with Jews before pre-Israel. The hatred of Jews is built into Islamic religious literate.

The Middle East was a safe haven for Jewish people for centuries while the Inquisition was raging.

Zionists are short sighted assholes. They don't know the prolonged history of the Jewish people. The idea of "Judeo-Christian culture" is bullshit - that is fiction created in the last century. That did NOT exist in 1930. Zionists are just thugs, and they aren't necessarily Jewish. However, they hide behind "Jews", and it's part of the reason that the holocaust is exaggerated in favor of Jews only and why so many people think they were the most persecuted group ever. It's a shield.

It might be more proper to think of Zionists as just a criminal syndicate. They don't give a damned about Jewish people, they care about themselves exclusively. Israel is just a safe haven for them if they ever get held accountable - Israel doesn't have extradition.

Engh, the whole damned thing is a mess. It will work itself in time.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/man-arrested-bias-charges-disrupting-stop-asian-hate-rally-los-angeles-rcna28625?source=patrick.net

richwicks says

Engh, the whole damned thing is a mess. It will work itself in time.

Depends on the definition of time. I don't think so, though. But I hope you are right.

https://www.newsweek.com/hail-hitler-hacked-road-sign-hunt-highway-arizona-nazi-adolf-hitler-heil-905335

Sorry, but Zinn above is full of beans. Poverty does not cause crime, just compare the crime rate of the Roaring Twenties with the Great Depression. I will agree that the crimes of the rich and powerful do go unpunished.

HeadSet says

Sorry, but Zinn above is full of beans. Poverty does not cause crime, just compare the crime rate of the Roaring Twenties with the Great Depression. I will agree that the crimes of the rich and powerful do go unpunished.

Okay, then what do you think causes crime? I was robbed of about $100 in a poverty and blight ridden area of Cleveland many years back. All the robbers were white and they set me up. These 6 individuals were likely poor and looking for money to buy drugs with. They had little to loose. This was probably not their first crime.
My bicycle got stolen last month from my open garage. Probably, someone who was looking for drug money was involved, that's my theory.

gabbar says

Okay, then what do you think causes crime?

Opportunity and lack of morals. Notice the crime spree caused when California stopped prosecuting shoplifting under $950, it was not food that was being taken. Now as you say, feeding an addiction can lead to thefts by desperate addicts. But that would be an easy crime to prevent, just supply free drugs to addicts in a group camp and let them waste away. Fixing "poverty" would have no affect on drug crime.

HeadSet says

Opportunity and lack of morals. Notice the crime spree caused when California stopped prosecuting shoplifting under $950, it was not food that was being taken. Now as you say, feeding an addiction can lead to thefts by desperate addicts. But that would be an easy crime to prevent, just supply free drugs to addicts in a group camp and let them waste away. Fixing "poverty" would have no affect on drug crime.

BINGO.

AmericanKulak says

HeadSet says

Opportunity and lack of morals. Notice the crime spree caused when California stopped prosecuting shoplifting under $950, it was not food that was being taken. Now as you say, feeding an addiction can lead to thefts by desperate addicts. But that would be an easy crime to prevent, just supply free drugs to addicts in a group camp and let them waste away. Fixing "poverty" would have no affect on drug crime.

BINGO.

Agreed. Poverty does promote crime to a certain extent, but it's far less than people are led to believe. Also the standard of living for "poor" people is much higher these days - at the expense of the middle and upper (not to be confused with the uber wealthy) class - yet so is crime

HeadSet says

Opportunity and lack of morals. Notice the crime spree caused when California stopped prosecuting shoplifting under $950, it was not food that was being taken. Now as you say, feeding an addiction can lead to thefts by desperate addicts. But that would be an easy crime to prevent, just supply free drugs to addicts in a group camp and let them waste away. Fixing "poverty" would have no affect on drug crime.

You make good points. I will think about this perspective. In my case, I didnt feel too bad when my bicycle got stolen. But I did report it to police, not sure why. 30 years back, I was poor and probably I would have felt bad about it.

This is the entire quote:
I am convinced that imprisonment is a way of pretending to solve the problem of crime. It does nothing for the victims of crime, but perpetuates the idea of retribution, thus maintaining the endless cycle of violence in our culture. It is a cruel and useless substitute for the elimination of those conditions -- poverty, unemployment, homelessness, desperation, racism, greed--which are at the root of most punished crime. The crimes of the rich and powerful go mostly unpunished. It must surely be a tribute to the resilience of the human spirit that even a small number of those men and women in the hell of the prison system survive it and hold on to their humanity. - Howard Zinn, You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train: A Personal History of Our Times