patrick.net

This is exactly why this event shouldn't be used for any kind of "it's time to do something fast" campaign. Because it's a corner case and nothing could be done to prevent it. If mom is a legal owner and mom doesn't think her precious child is fucked in the head what exactly do you propose to do? Significantly lowering the bar for involuntary commitment for the guy? Isn't it out of fashion nowadays?

Straw Man says

This is exactly why this event shouldn't be used for any kind of "it's time to do something fast" campaign. Because it's a corner case and nothing could be done to prevent it

Normally I'm in agreement with not making laws in response to horrible events, but this is not a corner case.

A corner case doesn't occur a couple dozen times a year.

The NRA has plenty of practice saying "Let's not react to this single isolated incident when the tragedy is still fresh."

These putatively isolated incidents are now so frequent that we're always living in the immediate aftermath of one.

We could just follow what Canada and Australia did. Both countries have healthy senses of rugged individualism and cultural relationships with firearms. Australia probably outshines our own, in their outdoorsy, frontier, etc. etc. Both countries passed gun regulation measures when confronted with upticks in gun violence and homicide by firearms. Both countries saw dramatic results for the positive by doing that.

Or, we can pretend that gun regulation doesn't work, this is about mental illness, and this case (like all the examples before it) are just unsolvable tragedies that cannot be prevented.

We look absolutely bat-sh*t crazy with regards to this issue, compared to the rest of the world.

You can still build in freedoms to own firearms, with better regulations. No one is trying to de-claw the population. We are trying to prevent the bullshit killing that goes on each month like this ... and that is well within our realm to influence and impact greatly ... while still preserving Constitutional Intent.

This incident ... not gonna do it either though. I thought killing 6 and 7 year olds might do it, with Sandy Hook ... nope. I'm wondering if it needs to go down to Kindergarten age, or we needed more numbers?

It's enough to make ones stomach turn.

HydroCabron says

Normally I'm in agreement with not making laws in response to horrible events, but this is not a corner case.

A corner case doesn't occur a couple dozen times a year.

"Shoot up a place with mom's guns" type of event does not occur "couple dozen times a year". Sandy Hook was like this and it was several years ago.

Rew says

We could just follow what Canada and Australia did.

What they "did"? Nothing in Canada's gun laws would prevent a crazy kid from taking mom's rifle and shooting up a place.

Ironman says

HydroCabron says

doesn't occur a couple dozen times a year.

"couple dozen times a year"?????

Exaggerate much???

Enjoy your bubble much? [Insert multiple question marks to taste.]

This kind of abject stupidity is so rare as to be savored.

I actually took the low estimate - contrary to conservo-libertarian dogma, the lamestream media ignores most of them.

Total mass shootings for 2015 is 994 (and 2015 ain't over yet). Looks to me as if the media isn't liberal.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

Excerpt:

The data compiled by the crowd-sourced site Mass Shooting Tracker reveals an even more shocking human toll: there is a mass shooting – defined as four or more people shot in one incident – nearly every day

If we must wait for a gap of two weeks between shootings to consider legislation, we'll never do shit.

Straw Man says

"Shoot up a place with mom's guns" type of event does not occur "couple dozen times a year". Sandy Hook was like this and it was several years ago.

Fine.

Let's pass legislation specifically exempting guns obtained from one's mother.

Straw Man says

What they "did"? Nothing in Canada's gun laws would prevent a crazy kid from taking mom's rifle and shooting up a place.

Absolutely false. This is like saying regulations we have around motor vehicles don't deter and lower incidents of vehicle related injury, murder, joy riding, drunk driving, etc. Yes, anything can be done by a person. Nothing prevents a whack job from grabbing a gun and shooting someone else ... same as someone deciding to drive someone over with a car.

However how prevalent firearms are, how they are kept, and how that person has been socialized by their culture around that tool/device has everything to do with this issue.

Australia ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

HydroCabron says

Let's pass legislation specifically exempting guns obtained from one's mother.

Hahaha. When firearm use is treated with the same severity and caution as learning to drive ... we start getting on the right path. Additionally, I think to own/operate certain types of firearms should require licensing/training/something more. It's the same for motorcycles, trucks, etc. Class of firearm ownership is a no-brainer.

Totally within the NRAs power to do. Not of interest. They are no longer about responsible ownership, as they once were. They are about volume ownership and sales.

Bush senior dropped his membership with the NRA awhile ago. Should tell you something. One of the last more moderate Republicans we have seen.

Just arm every kid on campus and see what happens. I suspect that bullying and sexual harassment rates will crater and any spike in murders is likely to be temporary and will be a price to pay on the path to eventual societal enlightment.

dublin hillz says

Just arm every kid on campus and see what happens. I suspect that bullying and sexual harassment rates will crater and any spike in murders is likely to be temporary and will be a price to pay on the path to eventual societal enlightment.

I hope that was meant as a joke.

I like how the left wing media decided to tightly ignore the fact that the guy was a left wing crazy who hated religion. And when he was going around shooting, he was asking people for their religion, and then putting a bullet in them when they were Christian.

I'll never agree with the left on this, their desire to control lives of others isn't any different from extreme right wingery or Orwellianism. Why would I want that in m life?

Ironman says

So, that would make a total of 4,866 people shot this year nation wide.

No, it wouldn't. Those numbers are for mass shootings only. They don't include shootings with fewer than 4 victims.

I know you don't want to hear it, because Chibamagazi, but the there are around 11,000 firearm homicides per year, with around 30,000 shooting victims who survived, for a total of on or above 40,000 per year. These are not suicides, and Obamacago has nothing to do with it.

These are the same awesome quantiative skills you bring to climate analysis: nobody can tell whether you're stupid or a liar. I always figured you were just stupid, but now I think you lie. You don't care about anything but pissing people off, because you're not smart enough, so you lie all day.

You should leave the board out of shame - you're completely dishonest. You don't deserve to interact with other people. Nobody should ever engage with you here.

Using this logic cars should be outlawed. Public transportation should be the only method of travel available.
2014: 33,000+ car deaths....car accidents in the millions..

HydroCabron says

I know you don't want to hear it, because Chibamagazi, but the there are around 11,000 firearm homicides per year, with around 30,000 shooting victims who survived, for a total of on or above 40,000 per year.

bgamall4 says

Why are you so dense? It is an obvious hoax.

It could be.

But if they are screaming about gun control, and ignoring the "shoot Christians" message that jackass was spreading weather fictitious or not. I don't have a whole lot of response options. They aren't going to listen to "its a hoax", because they want to believe it's gun control and that mind ain't changing. Because they like the idea of gun control, even when not applicable. If left could, they'd blame dinosaur extinction on lack of gun control.

FortWayne says

bgamall4 says

Why are you so dense? It is an obvious hoax.

It could be.

What do you think Gary is suggesting? You do understand that he thinks Sandy Hook, Boston, the recent shooting... never actually happened, that they were actors playing a part, apparently surrounded by tens (hundreds?) of thousands of others at this point filling supporting roles.

FortWayne says

ignoring the "shoot Christians" message

Yes, those poor American Christians under attack. It's a full blow crisis!

I don't agree with all of this, but here is someone who has a modicum of realistic perspective, from the X-ian point of view ...
http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/dr-james-emery-white/are-christians-in-america-under-attack.html

Fort Wayne, you cannot point at this single shooting, seemingly targeting Christians and cry: "this single instance is endemic of persecution and a war on Christians" and then in the same breath essentially say, "but all the shootings as a whole are not representative of a trend and we have no way of preventing them."

I'm sure your argument would be, if people accepted Jesus as their lord and savior, they could be heavily armed and not go around killing one another. Fine fine.

What's your solution if not everyone will embrace Christ? Because that's the actual world we live in.

SoftShell says

Using this logic cars should be outlawed. Public transportation should be the only method of travel available.

2014: 33,000+ car deaths...

For the fiftieth time: cars create immense economic efficiency and well being, and have hundreds of millions of uses besides crashing.

They are also far more difficult to obtain than Glocks.

Rew says

Straw Man says

Nothing in Canada's gun laws would prevent a crazy kid from taking mom's rifle and shooting up a place.

Absolutely false.... Nothing prevents a whack job from grabbing a gun and shooting someone else ...

ROTFLMAO.

HydroCabron says

For the fiftieth time: cars create immense economic efficiency and well being, and have hundreds of millions of uses besides crashing.

They are also far more difficult to obtain than Glocks.

Amount of users, hours operated a day don't compare at all to utility/use of firearms. We are letting something that is a hobby/sport for a few (myself included as pistol target shooter in that number) set precedent and be valued over the lives of many. It's stupid.

I'd love it if every state would allow people to own almost any type of firearm ... with a caveat. To own things like full auto combat rifles, I want you licensed, trained, and I want re-testing every 3-5 years. People can grown mentally unfit, or skill and capability can atrophy, to where those types of firearms may no longer be appropriate for a person to own. This is common sense no brainer here. Firearms in certain classes must be kept without access to others that are not licensed at that level. Others could use the firearm under the supervision of the owner, and at the owners liability.

I want the NRA to give the training and be the licensing body. (Read dollar signs here NRA! It's what you care about.)

Truly, anything ANYTHING is better than the weak-sauce background checks, multiple choice test, and being able to demonstrate you know which end the bullet flies out of system we have now. There is nothing in the current system that promotes responsible firearm ownership ... not one gosh darn thing.

Compare that to driving.

In truth, we as a nation don't care at all about how skilled anyone is with a firearm. This isn't about being able to defend the nation, or rebel against an oppressive government. It's simply about ownership ... and ownership only. Comforting to know my neighbors could own a small arsenal and be less competent than I. You switch that whole dynamic when to own you have to have some decent training and classes.

The NRA and gun lobby shouldn't be asking "how can we prevent gun regulation" they should be asking "how can we make it so people believe gun owners are responsible, competent, and seen as a social benefit." Because right now ... there is only liability and risk seen for firearms in your neighborhood.

They are going to loose this battle one way or the other. You grip that gun in your cold dead hand long enough ... it will slip through your fingers.

Straw Man says

ROTFLMAO.

Then why have laws and regulations at all?

It's because it sets expectations and standards of acceptable behavior. We are far too casual about firearms in the US. This isn't a land of homesteaders on the frontier anymore, where there was a rifle or shotgun propped up in the corner in every house. We live in a land of suburban slurpee drinking youtube watching video game playing middle aged males with little to no real concept or training around firearms. Those that have a "familial" relationship with firearms may not have extended that well to those in the household.

This is why you see the white middle class male as the active/mass shooter. Gun culture without gun responsibility.

Edit: you take a stance of no laws and regulations because you cannot directly control another humans actions. Show me successful models from history where "nothing" has worked out well. Look at warfare and soldiers specifically when you do. You will find these are the institutions and professions which are not only highly regulated, but typically are operating with massive cultural doctrine and belief systems in-place. Why? You think chivalry was just a cool fad? It's to control the middle aged male with the dangerous gear/tech. It's what our country is lacking right now.

From that great line in Braveheart ...
"First, learn to use this (mind), then I'll teach you to use this (sword)."

In the US today, we hand out the swords, with no thought for anything else. That's a huge injustice for our nation. We should demand more of ourselves and for ourselves.

bgamall4 says

They are doing gun control to consolidate power, not protect citizens!

Who is?

Do you mean the Zionists? Aren't they the same as the Jews?