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Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet.

By Strategist following x   2015 Nov 24, 8:06am 10,233 views   43 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


Putin calls plane's downing by Turkey 'stab in the back'

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html

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4   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 8:34am   ↑ like (7)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

They aren't coordinating with the Turks because they don't trust that the Turks won't disclose targets ahead of time to ISIS

5   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2015 Nov 24, 8:39am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ironman says

A Syrian insurgent group, which uses U.S. Tow missiles, said its fighters hit the helicopter with an anti-tank missile.

Which uses US Tow missiles-interesting. The western world at least has not seen major carnage since World War II. Paris, 9/11 were bad, but nothing that compares to the brutality of all out war. Scary times.

6   Blurtman   ignore (1)   2015 Nov 24, 8:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

dodgerfanjohn says

hey don't trust that the Turks won't disclose targets

Yes, who is backing ISIS, or at least not cracking down on them? Turkey, Saudi Arabia?

7   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 9:03am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I didn't realize Turkey is the most direct route to Europe for Syrians until I looked at a map.

I can understand wanting to protect your border, but Turkey isn't under attack, so this is an overreaction at least, a sure sign of collusion with Isis at worst. Coupled with trying to prevent Syrians from fleeing Isis and the daily bombings, I'd say Turkey is anti-Syria, and probably looking for some scraps after Assad is taken out.

8   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 9:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

There. Fixed it for ya....

lostand confused says

but will NATO Russia risk all out war with Russia NATO??

9   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2015 Nov 24, 9:35am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Russia needs to nuke all NATO nations. They should police their members or pay the consequences.
I just purchased all the warmonger military industrial complex & wars anywhere,anytime increases my bottom line.

10   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2015 Nov 24, 9:39am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Last thing we need is a nuclear war, but looks like Turkey is against Assad and supports the Turkmen rebels in the north of Syria. Russia was bombing them, so possibly used their NATO badge to blast the Russian plane. Lets see what Russia does-hope it doesn't spiral out of control-we all will pay.

11   mell   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 9:47am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Turkey should shut the fuck up after being welcomed into the EU despite strong concerns which were justified as it now seems.

12   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

Dear Putin,

Please shoot down a few Turkish Jets.

You do realize that Turkey is our ally, and by treaty we would be obliged to defend it, right?

dodgerfanjohn says

They aren't coordinating with the Turks because they don't trust that the Turks won't disclose targets ahead of time to ISIS

Or maybe, because Russia backs Assad and Turkey (like the US) backs the rebels. There is more to Syria than ISIS.

mell says

Turkey should shut the fuck up after being welcomed into the EU despite strong concerns which were justified as it now seems.

Are we supposed to read something between the lines?

13   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2015 Nov 24, 10:13am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

They don't call it Turkey for nothing.

ASSHOLES!

14   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:13am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Payback for MH17/MAS17 is a bitch....
Russia used their proxy to shoot it down, US used it's NATO proxy to shoot them down.

lostand confused says

Last thing we need is a nuclear war, but looks like Turkey is against Assad and supports the Turkmen rebels in the north of Syria. Russia was bombing them, so possibly used their NATO badge to blast the Russian plane.

15   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2015 Nov 24, 10:13am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Fuck any American that supports Turkey,a Muslim Blaspheming Infidel nation.
Rep/Con/Tea evangelicals should be pissed. This devil spawn doesn't eat bacon,ham,pulled pork barbecue that will save all Christians from Hell.

16   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:15am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I wonder if we'll see any bare-chested alligator wrestling putin commercials any time soon....

17   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:15am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Why do you hate Thanksgiving??

HEY YOU says

Fuck any American that supports Turkey

18   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says

Turkey should shut the fuck up after being welcomed into the EU despite strong concerns which were justified as it now seems.

Turkey is not in EU, and won't be.
They are part of NATO however: if Putin attacks them they have a right to demand the US and all NATO countries to defend them.

19   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The current Turkish government is an islamist. He is systematically attacking all the secular roots that used to be strong in Turkey.
There may come a point where we need to kick Turkey out of NATO if they don't stop supporting islamists.

20   mell   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says

mell says

Turkey should shut the fuck up after being welcomed into the EU despite strong concerns which were justified as it now seems.

Turkey is not in EU, and won't be.

They are part of NATO however: if Putin attacks them they have a right to demand the US and all NATO countries to defend them.

It's a technicality. The EU has enacted several programs to aid Turkey, torn down economic barriers, added free Visa programs etc. and whatnot with the goal to make it a full member. Turkey has mostly not reciprocated like you mentioned. Yes, technically they have a right to demand help from NATO. I hope it doesn't come that far and if Europe would take a more aggressive stance towards Turkey it would erode NATO support as well which they don't deserve so far.

21   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Blurtman says

dodgerfanjohn says

hey don't trust that the Turks won't disclose targets

Yes, who is backing ISIS, or at least not cracking down on them? Turkey, Saudi Arabia?

That is an interesting question. I don't think any nation would overtly support ISIS. There is no doubt ISIS is being supported by an ideology....Islamic extremism.

22   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 10:47am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Note the Timing:

1. Russia just blew up all those Turkey-bound Tanker Trucks.

2. And the West is now dominated by talks on how to beat the shit out of ISIS, instead of getting rid of Assad.

3. Putin met with the King of Jordan today. After the meeting, he talked with the press about the plane with the King at his side.

4. The bailed out pilot was executed by members of the "Moderate" Rebels, aka Al Qaeda and it's allies. Then the rescue team was attacked.

5.Remember folks, Turkey has flown god-knows how many sorties over Syria, violating it's airspace, and not just to patrol but to bomb the Kurds.

6. Russia has signed an agreement with the US and Israel - Turkey apparently refuses (not sure on this but getting info) to coordinate flights over Syria.

S-3000, prepare your missiles. Target: Violations of Syrian Airspace by Turkey, who has no UN Permission nor Syrian Permission to fly over.

23   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 10:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Whoever develops laser attacks from space wins...

24   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2015 Nov 24, 10:58am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

1. Russia just blew up all those Turkey-bound Tanker Trucks.

Jihadis are pouring into Europe and NATO has a jihadi state as a member.

25   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 11:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Putin says "a stab-in-the-back by terrorists' accomplices" in video above.

26   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 11:02am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

SoftShell says

Whoever develops laser attacks from space wins...

Classic.

27   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 11:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says

It's a technicality.

It shouldn't come to a war between the US and Russia, but the NATO treaty is not a technicality. We also are not just doing Turkey a favor by letting them in NATO, there are strategic reasons for it.

28   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 11:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Related?

Bomb blast in Cypriot Embassy in Athens
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-eurozone-greece-blast-idUSKBN0TD06T20151124

Nobody other than Greece or Turkey really gives two shits about Cyprus...

29   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 11:24am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Interesting. Not the first time Turkey has tried to use Clause 5 ("Mutual Defense") of NATO Treaty over Syria.

This one in 2012, with the SAF trying to bomb Moderate Head Choppers near the Turkish border, where their supplies come from.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_observers-say-natos-fifth-charter-comes-into-play-if-clashes-with-syria-get-worse_277187.html

30   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2015 Nov 24, 11:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Russia should move massive numbers of nuclear weapons to their eastern border & ask NATO: You want to start something?

31   mell   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 11:31am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

YesYNot says

mell says

It's a technicality.

It shouldn't come to a war between the US and Russia, but the NATO treaty is not a technicality. We also are not just doing Turkey a favor by letting them in NATO, there are strategic reasons for it.

Of course it shouldn't, but that's mostly up to the US=NATO. Turkey indeed is strategically useful as a buffer to the middle-east, but decades of appeasement have yield close to nothing and rather had a negative effect. The same appeasement that is shown towards Islam by the leftists. Didn't work with Hitler, won't work this time. If they want to join they have to become serious about western values and acknowledge the Judeo-Christian tradition of most of the EU member countries.

32   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 11:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says

Of course it shouldn't, but that's mostly up to the US=NATO.

US and France both said they want a de-escalation, so looks like there's no interest in making hay of this on the Western Side.

Meanwhile, an interesting question:

Also, first time in history a NATO member shot down a Russian military plane.

Think about all the NATO-Russian patrols right off each other's airspace, for decades, in huge numbers...

33   anonymous   ignore (null)   2015 Nov 24, 11:56am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

They've acknowledged the judeo christian traditions. Their M.O. Is to defeat these infidels. We're at the dawn of mother of all religious wars

34   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2015 Nov 24, 11:56am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Putin is going to slap Turkey so hard Obama is going to feel it.

35   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 24, 11:58am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says

It's a technicality. The EU has enacted several programs to aid Turkey, torn down economic barriers, added free Visa programs etc. and whatnot with the goal to make it a full member. Turkey has mostly not reciprocated like you mentioned. Yes, technically they have a right to demand help from NATO. I hope it doesn't come that far and if Europe would take a more aggressive stance towards Turkey it would erode NATO support as well which they don't deserve so far.

One thing is for certain.... Turkey would not have had the balls to shoot down the Russian jet were it not for it's membership in NATO.

36   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2015 Nov 24, 12:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

Turkey would not have had the balls to shoot down the Russian jet were it not for it's membership in NATO.

Turkey would be Turkey for Thanksgiving if it were not for NATO. Funny they are using NATO to support their jihadi brothers. I am still intrigued to see what Putin would do. Stupid jihadis-apparently Russians are the second largest nation of origin for tourists to Turkey-some 12 million Russians visit Turkey every year. So it will be interesting-Putin has warned against travel to Turkey now. That and the Islamist President justifies the plane shooting now.
Methinks Putin will do something-but he is a smart cookie and will wait for the right time.

37   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 12:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

One thing is for certain.... Turkey would not have had the balls to shoot down the Russian jet were it not for it's membership in NATO.

Yep, we gotta problem now that we have an ever-more radicalized Turkey in NATO.

The US does not want escalation, by confirming Russia's assertion that the airspace violation was trifling, lasting seconds (this from the Guardian Live Feed):

38   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 24, 5:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Syria shot down a Turkish F-4 (still in use?!) a few years ago for violating air space. Erdogan flipped out.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18584872

39   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 26, 9:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

So now everybody's even stevens...

40   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2015 Nov 28, 7:51pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Reply of the Cossacks.

Thou art a turkish imp, the damned devil’s brother and friend, and a secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight art thou that cannot slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil shits, and your army eats. Thou, a son of a bitch, wilt not ever make subjects of Christian sons; we have no fear of your army, by land and by sea we will battle with thee, f— thy mother.

Thou art the Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-f—er of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, Armenian pig, Podolian villain, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, a fool before our God, a grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig’s snout, mare’s arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow, screw thine own mother!

41   bob2356   ignore (4)   2015 Nov 29, 5:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

a Turkish F-4 (still in use?!)

Iran, Turkey, and Israel operate upgraded F-4's (phantom 2000, phantom 2020, peace icarus, and ICE "improved combat efficiency" are some of the upgrade versions) in front line service. Other countries have operational squadrons of upgraded F-4's in reserves that could be used front line at any time. It's still a fine plane especially with modern avionics, and weaponry like the APG-65/AMRAAM missile. Iranians supposedly upgraded their F-4's to accept most weapons in the russian/chinese stockpile as well.

42   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Nov 29, 7:33am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

thunderlips11 says

a Turkish F-4 (still in use?!)

Iran, Turkey, and Israel operate upgraded F-4's (phantom 2000, phantom 2020, peace icarus, and ICE "improved combat efficiency" are some of the upgrade versions) in front line service. Other countries have operational squadrons of upgraded F-4's in reserves that could be used front line at any time. It's still a fine plane especially with modern avionics, and weaponry like the APG-65/AMRAAM missile. Iranians supposedly upgraded their F-4's to accept most weapons in the russian/chinese stockpile as well.

How would an upgraded F-4 compare with the latest versions of F-15's and soon to come F-22's? I doubt if it's even a close match. I remember reading an article in the 80's, "The US will never sell anything it cannot shoot down, except to Israel"

43   bob2356   ignore (4)   2015 Nov 29, 2:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

How would an upgraded F-4 compare with the latest versions of F-15's and soon to come F-22's? I doubt if it's even a close match. I remember reading an article in the 80's, "The US will never sell anything it cannot shoot down, except to Israel"

Pilot skill, tactics and strategy are bigger factors than hardware. The F-4 got shot out of the sky by the primitive mig 17/19 in Vietnam until tactics were improved. Claire Chennaults flying tigers with their crappy P-40b's slaughtered the far superior zeros in china, while the brits in burma with the exact same plane had every single one shot down in only a couple weeks.

I'm not sure who you envision using F-22's for fighting against turkey, israel, or iran. There are only 186 raptors, they all belong to the US air force, and it's against federal law to export them. The raptor has been in active service since Dec 2007. There's nothing soon to come about it. They have all been built.

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