patrick.net

Not sure if 9 people from the country of California, like that you left, or if 9 Americans are applauding your effort.

anonymous says

if you announced you were leaving Florida what the results would be for - your leaving

The per ca pita IQ of florida would rise and the per ca pita IQ of whatever state the captain moves to will drop.

Now....if only the 'Left' would leave Cali....we could make some progress....but not their kind

While I still applaud the move, my recent trip to LA gave me second thoughts about leaving. I'm from San Diego, and am used to high quality craft beer being sold even at my neighborhood gas station. We went to a Clipper game, and there was only one truly decent craft beer on tap(Lagunitas IPA). Even across the street at whatever that collection of restaurants is, nada. Now I can live without the beach and the surfing, but without good beer..? A man has his limits.

NuttBoxer says

Now I can live without the beach and the surfing, but without good beer..? A man has his limits.

California offers something for everyone. More people come in than leave, by a thousand bodies every single day.

Observer, I don't think the affluent immigrants from Asia use united van lines.

Yep.
Refugees from the tsunami of Asian Eiltes.

Asian elites coming here or sending their kids here, paying cash or huge downpayments.
Remember, compared to the Concrete Canyons of their crowded cities, the Bay Area is The Wide Open Spaces at Bargain Prices.
Pushing middle class types into blue collar housing/rentals, inflating those prices, and pushing those folks out of The Bay Area.
Also pushing out middle income folks like Joshua who may have the means but not willing to spend for it when they can choose from the whole USA for a better quality of life.

Remember to listen to Neal Boortz!

anonymous says

The California I first encountered is gone.

I moved to CA in 2006. Loved it for the first 5-6 years. The last 2-3 were miserable. With the consistent rent increases and costs of doing business, it became more trouble than it was worth. Granted, we could comfortably afford to live out there, I just hated the idea of taking out a massive mortgage for a terd house, in a drought stricken state with insane taxes, that spent more money supporting illegals than it's own citizens. Putting it all down on paper, it made no sense to stay there.

My wife and I also wanted more for our kids - and to be flexible to do more... Leaving CA is allowing us to do whatever the hell we want - and in a year or two, work for ourselves completely. No more job hopping, or living under the thumb of middle management.

Josh,

Why still the bitterness even after you have moved? Like everything in life, you take the good with the bad. It's great if you have more good than bad. Not everyone can just pick up their bag and move. We have families, friends and community. Not every community in CA is bad. Not everywhere in CA is as foggy as Monterey where you used to reside. This doesn't make them stupid for not wanting to move out of CA.

People live where they live for a reason. The fact that you could just pick up your bag and moved across the country shows you value something else more than families and friends. Everyone's priority is different. Get out there do so something positive for the country instead of being bitter about CA.

E-man says

The fact that you could just pick up your bag and moved across the country shows you value something else more than families and friends. Everyone's priority is different. Get out there do so something positive for the country instead of being bitter about CA.

Lol, I value my famliy - which is why I moved. Don't go all hippy dippy on me now :) We had no more family in CA... We did have friends though.

Sorry if I came across as bitter, its been a hectic month, with a lot of travel. It's also because my wife and I were given a lot of grief when we made this decision - despite it being a smart move, and one weve been really happy with.

But I disagree with you. People living check to check, to survive and maintain a lifestyle they can't afford is foolish - and very common. Granted the inherently wealthy are doing just fine, but anyhoo.

I did edit my last comment, sorry again if it was to angry for you :)

No sweat. There are definitely people who fit the paycheck to paycheck category to keep up with the Joneses. No clue why they're doing that to themselves.

We all have only one chance at this life. Make our stay as enjoyable as we can is the goal. When you could live your life in your own way, I'd call that a success.

Good luck and have fun in GA!

joshuatrio says

I did edit my last comment, sorry again if it was to angry for you :)

don't pay attention to input from a landlord who has a vested interest in population influx vs. outflow. you did the right thing for you because california is doing the wrong thing for so many of its residents. you're not alone, you weren't the first, and you won't be the last. the thought has crossed the minds of just about everyone in the middle class here over the last few years.

i'd say the major roadblock for most people is the "hotel california" effect due to employment terms and conditions. in other words, they don't really want to stay, they HAVE to stay. one such example is someone who may work for the UC system under a pension plan, who is more than halfway through complete vestment.

zzyzzx says

Metro Atlanta has bike trails???

The best one is the beltline...

joshuatrio says

Hell, we could buy a big ass 4,000 sq ft monster, for $300k

Where are they selling mcmansions in the Greater Atlanta Area for 75/sqft? Total BS

Atlanta avg is 178 and most of the houses that are 4000 sq ft are closer to a million (or greater) in Atlanta. Most of the new construction in Decatur downtown (30030) is around 300/sq ft....with prices like a bit higher, it will be right at orange county level, minus basic public services (DeKalb county is mediocre). Some parks in Decatur, but not on level of Orange County.

I bought in 30033 at 86/sq ft in 2013 and now it is up to 135 and the average for this zipcode is 158/sq ft.

Even if you live out in Alpharetta or Suwanee you would still be paying 120-140/sq ft.

Couple more boom and bust cycles and Atlanta will be in the same neighborhood pricewise as Washington DC or Boston. Give Atlanta another 10 years, it will surely happen.

Having said that, there is still good value to be had here in Atlanta, but you won't find any 4000 sq ft mcmansions for under 600K, unless you are going out over an hour from downtown Atlanta.

MMR says

I bought in 30033 at 86/sq ft in 2013 and now it is up to 135 and the average for this zipcode is 158/sq ft.

MMR says

Where are they selling mcmansions in the Greater Atlanta Area for 75/sqft? Total BS

In about 8 months, he can have your house for $75 sqft.

joshuatrio says

I moved to CA in 2006. Loved it for the first 5-6 years. The last 2-3 were miserable. With the consistent rent increases and costs of doing business, it became more trouble than it was worth. Granted, we could comfortably afford to live out there, I just hated the idea of taking out a massive mortgage for a terd house, in a drought stricken state with insane taxes, that spent more money supporting illegals than it's own citizens. Putting it all down on paper, it made no sense to stay there.

Would you have moved if you had purchased a home in 2012 or thereabouts? Because your numbers would have been different.

MMR says

Couple more boom and bust cycles and Atlanta will be in the same neighborhood pricewise as Washington DC or Boston. Give Atlanta another 10 years, it will surely happen.

Laughable!

joshuatrio says

Shocking isn't it?

Yeah, your just now beginning to get what the Baltimore - DC area has had for decades.

zzyzzx says

I lived in Atlanta for 20 years, and IMO, it's a pretty fucking boring place to live.

I'm not one to dislike comments, and I didn't dislike that comment, but having lived in Baltimore for 3 months in the past 2 years and Atlanta for over the past 2 years, I would rank Atlanta far higher in terms of Arts and dining and quality open space. Traffic is insufferable in both places, but slightly better in Baltimore since it is much smaller.

5.5 million on roads designed for 1.8 million people in Atlanta.

As I once mentioned, the authentic Napolitano style pizza in Atlanta (Varuni Napoli, Antico) puts the best in NYC (Artichoke) to shame. Best Pizza in NYC is Giove's in Staten Island, where the chef beat bobby flay twice on his show.

Far more James Beard Foundation regarded chefs in Atlanta than Baltimore. Not even close

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/dining-news/breaking-atlantas-james-beard-award-nominees-2015/

I'm checking out Book of Mormon next month at the Legendary Fox theater

Atlanta is much more ethnically diverse than Baltimore also.

Strategist says

Would you have moved if you had purchased a home in 2012 or thereabouts? Because your numbers would have been different.

Good question. I was thinking about that today as I had to come out to LA for the week, and am in the state today.

Ultimately, I would still want to leave.

While I immediately missed the clear blue sky and the mountains, I didn't miss all the trash on the sides of the roads, the large homeless population walking around with nothing to do, the cost of living, the razor wire on road sign poles (to prevent graffiti), and the wealth disparity - as in a high dollar apartment complex next to the slums, and the wealthier ignoring the problems immediately surrounding them.

In a few years, California is going to resemble central america, with gated communities in the middle of slums.

MMR says

Where are they selling mcmansions in the Greater Atlanta Area for 75/sqft? Total BS

Look in Kennesaw and Marietta. 3700 sq ft for 280k. It's dirt cheap in the burbs. Not bs. Search mls yourself.

The Strategist sounds like he's coming from the perspective of The Asian Contagion in the Bay Area.
From where they come, the horribly overcrowded and overexpensive (and Cool And Hip) Bay Area is the Wide Open Prairie, at Bargain Prices.
They cannot fathom there's a higher quality of life in other parts of the US, and cannot fathom that there's other stuff of Value besides the Money, The Equity, the API, etc.

B.A.C.A.H. says

The Strategist sounds like he's coming from the perspective of The Asian Contagion in the Bay Area.

From where they come, the horribly overcrowded and overexpensive (and Cool And Hip) Bay Area is the Wide Open Prairie, at Bargain Prices.

They cannot fathom there's a higher quality of life in other parts of the US, and cannot fathom that there's other stuff of Value besides the Money, The Equity, the API, etc.

you know you're a californian when... this makes sense.

What did you accomplish here in California? What is your legacy?

joshuatrio says

Look in Kennesaw and Marietta. 3700 sq ft for 280k. It's dirt cheap in the burbs. Not bs. Search mls yourself.

Which school district in Marietta? Walton or wheeler, other schools there are not good....those will be closer 150-200/sq. ft. If it's under 100/sf it's prob going to need significant work, penny wise, pound foolish unless you are handy IMO.

Average price per square foot for Marietta GA was $117, an increase of 6.4% compared to the same period last year.

As I said in the second part of the post, you would be commuting from an hour out most days unless commuting off-peak, which Kennesaw certainly is. Also schools in Kennesaw are crap as far as I can tell. Also shit ton of rednecks in parts of Marietta and more so the further north you go.

Go to Marietta diner sometime and tell me what you see if you don't believe me or J Christopher in Kennesaw when it's kind of busy.

Price per sq ft avg in Kennesaw (1hr north of downtown Atlanta, longer if there is an accident): The average home price in Kennesaw is $259,900, which is 33.3% higher than the average sold price in Kennesaw ($195,000) . The average home price per square foot in Kennesaw is $98 and about 4% of all homes in Kennesaw sold in the last 6 months.

http://www.realtor.com/local/Kennesaw_GA/home-prices

If you did the same thing from an hour out of the Bay Area you would find more reasonable prices although definitely not 75/sq ft

If you are commuting from San bernardino county or riverside county you could find houses for about 125/sq ft

To your point, there is value to be had but for someone who has managed to survive living in California and can come to the Atlanta area without a drop off in income, Kennesaw is a step down in demographics/schools compared to looking inside the perimeter or better suburban neighborhoods if you have kids. If you are single without kids, pretty much anyplace outside the perimeter is just big box stores and typical suburbia.

zzyzzx says

Laughable

When was the last time you came to Atlanta? I went to school her 20 years ago as an undergrad at emory and it is far different today.

My townhome had gone up to 400K and dropped all the way to 180 and I bought at 234k....which was 86/sq ft. Today the units are selling at 135/sq ft. The average for my zip is 158 and is close to the cdc emory etc.

Most of the new construction town homes are going for 200/sq ft and averaging 450-500k asking price.

Downtown Decatur , a place that was a ghetto when you lived here 20 yrs ago is a pretty well developed and gentrifying area today. Tons of restaurants and lot of high density housing and fixer uppers running 1 million dollars for 3000 sq ft homes. Some of the town homes in downtown Decatur have a 700k asking price

Downtown Decatur is a combination of hipsters/artists, college students and families with young children moving for the high quality public schools, some of the most highly ranked in the metro Atlanta area.

Lot of properties in Downtown Decatur are commanding 300/sq ft. I'm skeptical as to the level of demand driving these prices but they are going up for the foreseeable future. I suspect another bust cycle in the near future but people are going to continue to move to Atlanta a lot more than Chicago, Boston or pretty much any city in the northeast other than NYC.

Atlanta was about 3 million in the early 90s when the growth started and today it is almost double that.

zzyzzx says

At least you didn't move to Raleigh, that place is much worse and probably more expensive than Atlanta. I've lived there too.

When was the last time you were in Raleigh?

MMR says

Downtown Decatur , a place that was a ghetto when you lived here 20 yrs ago is a pretty well developed and gentrifying area today. Tons of restaurants and lot of high density housing and fixer uppers running 1 million dollars for 3000 sq ft homes. Some of the town homes in downtown Decatur have a 700k asking price

That is almost bay area pricing?

ja says

When was the last time you were in Raleigh?

Around 1994. And my biggest complaint was that it was more expensive to live there than Baltimore (or Atlanta or Charlotte) but it was a much smaller metro area. IBM had moved a bunch of people there right before I got there, and that made the rents higher than they otherwise would have been, but even stuff in the stores was more expensive too. That and the apartment I had was uninsulated, so it totally sucked, despite being expensive. That and the place is pretty fucking boring.

Lots of constzzyzzx says

Around 1994. And my biggest complaint was that it was more expensive to live there than Baltimore (or Atlanta or Charlotte) but it was a much smaller metro area. IBM had moved a bunch of people there right before I got there, and that made the rents higher than they otherwise would have been, but even stuff in the stores was more expensive too. That and the apartment I had was uninsulated, so it totally sucked, despite being expensive. That and the place is pretty fucking boring.

Lots of constructions since then.
If you had such a bad apartment perhaps you went to the getho area. Lots of types of housing to choose from. You can check pice/sqfeet today. It's a bargain if you look at most America today and people from CA or Washington are looking forward to move in.
Perhaps you don't like the outdoors, but with 3 major universities, a tech/pharmaceutical campus, lots of internationals, one of the highest PhD concentrations of the country, you just have to look harder if you want entertainment. If you want to be full suburban, it's your option.

You can get a burguer for $9-$10. Is it cheaper in Atlanta?

-J

MMR says

If you did the same thing from an hour out of the Bay Area you would find more reasonable prices although definitely not 75/sq ft

I don't think you get it. The large majority of public schools in CA are garbage. We were already sending our kids to private, so if we do that in GA, no biggie. An expense we are prepared for. A house with good schools in CA will fetch $600-800k usually. You can get east Cobb schools and a decent home for $250k.

We can go back and forth, but your money goes a lot further out here and my commute isn't any longer because I was already dealing with traffic in CA.

Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges. They are nothing alike and one is 2-3x the cost for less amenities.

Joshua, I think you meant comparing apples to rotten oranges.

ja says

If you had such a bad apartment perhaps you went to the getho area.

Not really, it was 50% more expensive than Baltimore. And it's not like you have any way of knowing in advance if a rental unit is properly insulated. It's not like the building was particularly old. It even let in too much humidity which damaged some of my personal belongings (and made it difficult to add gas to my car once).

B.A.C.A.H. says

The Strategist sounds like he's coming from the perspective of The Asian Contagion in the Bay Area.

From where they come, the horribly overcrowded and overexpensive (and Cool And Hip) Bay Area is the Wide Open Prairie, at Bargain Prices.

They cannot fathom there's a higher quality of life in other parts of the US, and cannot fathom that there's other stuff of Value besides the Money, The Equity, the API, etc.

Hello B.A.C.
I look at the BA and California from a different point of view. The BA is actually the cheapest place to purchase a home in all of America. Where can you get 6%+ appreciation, at a cost of 4% for the loan. You are actually getting paid to live there. :)

Yep.
Told'ya. It's all about The Money, The Equity, (and maybe The Standardized Test Scores in your neighborhood School, fancy German Sedan). At Bargain Prices!
You think the rest of the USA has more to offer in Quality of Life? You Stupid Podunk Haolie Devils!

Strategist says

I look at the BA and California from a different point of view. The BA is actually the cheapest place to purchase a home in all of America. Where can you get 6%+ appreciation, at a cost of 4% for the loan. You are actually getting paid to live there. :)

You get the 6% appreciation maybe for a 10 year max boom cycle (if you're lucky), but the mortgage at 4% interest is usually 30 years. The time to get out is near. Take a look how fast prices and rents crashed in 2008, there wasn't much time to react. Watch the venture money, once it starts drying up get the hell out of dodge. The cracks are already visible.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Yep.

Told'ya. It's all about The Money, The Equity, (and maybe The Standardized Test Scores in your neighborhood School, fancy German Sedan). At Bargain Prices!

You think the rest of the USA has more to offer in Quality of Life? You Stupid Podunk Haolie Devils!

California, especially So. California has the best quality of life. It's December and I can hike with just a T-shirt. And getting paid 6% appreciation at the same time. If that makes me stupid, I'm glad to be stupid.
And you ought to be ashamed of being a racist. You will never amount to anything in your life with that bitter attitude.

mell says

Strategist says

I look at the BA and California from a different point of view. The BA is actually the cheapest place to purchase a home in all of America. Where can you get 6%+ appreciation, at a cost of 4% for the loan. You are actually getting paid to live there. :)

You get the 6% appreciation maybe for a 10 year max boom cycle (if you're lucky), but the mortgage at 4% interest is usually 30 years. The time to get out is near. Take a look how fast prices and rents crashed in 2008, there wasn't much time to react. Watch the venture money, once it starts drying up get the hell out of dodge. The cracks are already visible.

Honestly, all I see is a very bright future in the next 20 years. We will have:
A long period of growth.
Energy costs, especially with solar will drop like a rock.
New inventions will make life better for all.
Our living standards will jump.

Sticks and stones!
You'd be surprised. There's a whole lotta non-white Californian Americans, including maybe even me, who aren't impressed when someone Pulls The Race Card.
It ain't about race, pal. There's Americans of all Colors and all Stripes, including ethnic Asians, getting priced out and pushed out by the tsunami in recent years.
It's not race.
It's culture. And it's a
Subset of Culture, "The Elites".