patrick.net

I have to say, I wonder whether any of the above is really true. It sounds a lot like propaganda to me, the type that is completely made up. I guess we will see in a few days if anyone can debunk it.

The BBC confirms this story.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32748248

Dan8267 says

American pseudofeminists need to get their priorities straight. There are real women rights issues in other parts of the world. Distracting people with bullshit prevents them from solving real problems.

No, the Feminists at Jezebel and the Guardian are more worried about lower-status males daring to attempt to chat them up at a cafe, or cat-calling, or anything less than completely sober, totally enthusiastic positive consent is rape anytime I change my mind, including days or weeks afterwards.

I don't know, the TSA conducts the fisting test at our airports all the time. Two fingers sounds like a good deal.

Dan8267 says

The BBC confirms this story.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32748248

BBC is just reporting what the group (Human Rights Watch) has told them. BBC has not checked the story themselves. I still doubt the story.

QUOTE from the BBC link:

Andreas Harsono was one of the HRW researchers who interviewed 11 Indonesian women, who were all military wives and female officers. He said they described two fingers being used to open the vagina while one finger was placed in the anus.

He said that on one occasion, when a woman told others waiting outside an examination room what had been done to her, all 23 applicants left.

He said that most were embarrassed by the procedure, and many were traumatised.

ENDQUOTE

You can't be serious. I do not believe this. And note that the BBC story is from May 19, over 6 months ago.

Ironman says

Are you saying a story Dan put up from some sort of strange web site called: http://www.theplaidzebra.com/about/

As well as the BBC. Given your flip-flopping on sources depending whether what they are currently saying is something you like or don't, your opinion does not count for shit.

justme says

Dan8267 says

The BBC confirms this story.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32748248

BBC is just reporting what the group (Human Rights Watch) has told them. BBC has not checked the story themselves. I still doubt the story.

Fair enough. I have no problem reporting this story to be false if evidence shows it to be. I did five minutes of searching and found only confirmations that the HRW made these statements and nothing stating that the HRW did not make the statements or that the statements are false. If anyone has evidence showing the HRW was misquoted or wrong, please reference it.

In general the HRW is not Fox News. It doesn't lie to get its way. There are plenty of real-world human rights violations to be concerned about. There's no need to add fake ones.

FYI, Time Magazine states that the World Health Organization also acknowledges the practice of virginity tests and condemns it. The article does not mention Indonesia, but it does demonstrate that this is an issue, so someone had to be doing it.

The New York Times also references this practice, but references another news source.

Also, one video testimony in Indonesian.

Finally, International Business Times states that Female students barred from graduating if they fail virginity test. So this story does not seem made up.

Still haven't found anything debunking the claims.

Again, if anyone has any actual evidence that these claims are bullshit, feel free to present it. You know CIC won't rise to the challenge because he's fucking worthless.

Ironman says

The BBC was just re-spewing shit

So, you are saying that the stories are false. OK, prove it. Where is your evidence?

Dan,
Have you got a quick link to the HWR request?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Indonesia: 204,847,000 Muslims/88.1% of pop.
Nothing may change anytime soon.

Rep/Con/Teas would two finger all women.
You barefoot,pregnant,ignorant sluts get in the kitchen & fix my dinner.

Ironman says

The BBC was just re-spewing shit, without confirming it, just like you do.

FOX NEWS Indonesia tests female police recruits' virginity, drawing outcry from rights group

FOX NEWS Outrage in Indonesia over schoolgirl virginity tests

FOX NEWS School's virginity test proposal brings outrage from education officials

So then, CIC, you are saying that Fox News is "just re-spewing shit, without confirming it" and thus is not a credible news source, right? I mean, because unless you admit that, you are just a hypocritical lying sack of shit.

HEY YOU says

Have you got a quick link to the HWR request?

No. What the HWR links to as reports are just web page articles.

However, the BBC did confirm that virginity tests are obligatory for female military and national police recruits. They were not quoting the HRW on that fact.

Virginity tests are obligatory for female military and national police recruits who are typically high school graduates aged between 18 and 20.

But they did reference HRW stated the following rather than confirming it themselves.

HRW's research indicates that the air force, army and navy have for decades also used the test on the fiancees of military officers before marriage.

It also says local governments and the civil service have been known to use the test. In February, officials in Jember, East Java, scrapped a plan to make high school girls be tested before they could graduate from high school.

It seems establish that the Indonesian military and national police do indeed conduct virginity tests on female recruits. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Oh, I'll take that apology now CIC. Of course, he's not man enough to admit he was wrong.

Ironman says

NOW, Fox News IS a credible source because YOU want them to be?? Really??

Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E ?

Hardly. But I never made the point that everything Fox News says is a lie. Even a broken clock is right sometimes.

Now, how about you? Are you saying Fox News is unreliable? Because if you aren't, then you are the fucking hypocrite.

Of course you are not going to answer that. You'll just run away and dodge the question like the fucking coward you are. You have no integrity.

justme expressed doubts that the story was correct and asked for confirmation. This is perfectly reasonable.

You, however, got a boner and started wacking off because you thought you could prove me wrong -- which is silly because I wasn't married to the story. So you accused me of printing lies. You were wrong. You have been proved wrong beyond any doubt, reasonable or otherwise. Instead of manning up and admitting your mistake, you are now jacking off and pretending you were right. Everyone knows how stupid you look claiming victory when you just got smacked down with actual facts.

Speaking of lies you tell...Ironman says

Dan8267 says

Ironman says

NOW, Fox News IS a credible source because YOU want them to be?? Really??

Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E ?

Hardly. But I never made the point that everything Fox News says is a lie.

Yeah... right..

Feel free to back that lie up with a reference? Of course not. You are wrong.

Ironman says

I get all my news from Mother Jones, Salon, Youtube, ThinkProgress and Comedy Central.

Which of those things are NPR, PBS, The New York Times, The Economists, and Scientific America?

Dan8267 says

So then, CIC, you are saying that Fox News is "just re-spewing shit, without confirming it" and thus is not a credible news source, right? I mean, because unless you admit that, you are just a hypocritical lying sack of shit.

Yep, once again, CIC represents conservative hypocrisy and cowardice well.

Dan8267 says

justme expressed doubts that the story was correct and asked for confirmation. This is perfectly reasonable.

You, however, got a boner and started wacking off because you thought you could prove me wrong

Yup. I was not attempting some personal attack on Dan. That was Ironman/Call It Crazy/CIC. I simply expressed my doubt that the story is correct. And for the record, I still doubt it.

Interview with Indonesian military chief, he defends practice:

"So what's the problem? It's a good thing, so why criticize it?" Gen. Moeldoko was quoted by The Jakarta Globe as telling reporters on Friday.

The Globe says Moeldoko "conceded, though, that there was no direct link between a woman being a virgin and her abilities as a member of the armed forces, but insisted that virginity was a gauge of a woman's morality — one of the three key traits he said a woman must have to serve in the [Indonesia Armed Forces], along with high academic aptitude and physical strength."

The virginity test "is a measure of morality. There's no other way" to determine a person's morality, Moeldoko said.

The General confirmed and defended that the Virginity Tests and was directly responding to the report by Human Rights Watch on the subject.

Also:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/15/indonesia-slammed-for-using-virginity-tests-on-female-recruits/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/female-indonesian-police-recruits-forced-virginity-test
http://time.com/3883558/indonesia-virginity-tests/
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/17/407526194/indonesian-military-chief-defends-virginity-tests-for-female-recruits

So who administers the virginity test? Do dirty old imams/wannabe jihadis administer the test to the female army recruits/potential female jihadis?

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Sit on my face, Indonesia!

I thought the virginity test was done by 2 fingers, not by tounge?

This thread is useless without pictures

Forget virginity tests, how about female genital mutilation? Still practiced by a majority in several African countries including Somalia, it involves the cutting out of the clitoris and vaginal lips to leave nothing but a scarred hole. This is typically done with a rusty knife or shard of glass without anesthetic of any sort. Infections are common and are often life threatening. Some women become sterile as a result of the infections. All survivors lose most of the sexual feeling in their vaginas.

Queue feminist liberal nutjob: "but it's their CULTURE! You can't disrespect another person's culture!"
I'd like to see some of these hysterical women trade places with the 14-year-old African girls...

Lose lips sinks ships.

Ironman says

Like this?

A conjecture, by definition, is not a lie. Nor have you shown that the conjecture was wrong. Nor have you shown that the individuals who said the stupid things in the original article are liberals. Nor are you even capable of providing a correct definition of liberal.

justme says

I simply expressed my doubt that the story is correct.

It is always OK to doubt a story and to ask for independent verification. There's not much on the story, but multiple sources do confirm that virginity tests are used in Indonesia for both the military and the national police and no sources deny this. So it is reasonable to accept that this is true.

If there is any credible evidence that shows otherwise, I'd gladly criticize the article as incorrect.

justme says

Yup. I was not attempting some personal attack on Dan. That was Ironman/Call It Crazy/CIC.

Whenever CIC sees anyone questioning something I've posted, even when I'm just reporting not advocating, CIC gets a boner and starts jerking off about the idea of proving me wrong on anything, no matter how petty. People like CIC get no validation in real life, so they must rely on tearing down strangers on the Internet and getting other fools to agree with their lies. It's all about who is write, not what is write to such losers.

thunderlips11 says

The General confirmed and defended that the Virginity Tests and was directly responding to the report by Human Rights Watch on the subject.

Thanks for the research. And unlike trolls like CIC, I'd appreciate the research regardless of what the outcome of it turns out to be.

The NPR reference alone provides adequate proof.

Of course, CIC isn't man enough to admit that his false accusations were wrong. Everyone should remember that every time she writes a post.

Tenpoundbass says

Lose lips sinks ships.

In all seriousness, there are probably some female recruits that resort to only anal in order to pass these tests. Good Catholic girls did the same decades ago.

It doesn't count if it's anal. - CIC at the petting zoo.

Quigley says

Queue feminist liberal nutjob: "but it's their CULTURE! You can't disrespect another person's culture!"

Such pseudo-feminists aren't liberal. I'm against all genital mutilation being forced on children including male circumcision. That should not be the choice of the parents either.

Oh, and we liberals don't believe that culture or religion are beyond criticism. I'll criticize any culture and any religion. That's free speech. And cultures that "honor kill" women are morally inferior to cultures that don't. And a culture that is homophobic is morally inferior to one that is not. Liberal culture is better than conservative culture.

Ironman says

Dan8267 says

A conjecture, by definition, is not a lie

That's not actually a counter-argument. If you had any intelligence, you'd realize that.

By the way, now that it has been proven by many sources that virginity tests are given in Indonesia, are you man enough to apologize for being wrong? 'Nuff said.

Oh, you want further humiliation? OK, happy to oblige.

The statement there may be intelligent extraterrestrial life in our galaxy is not a lie even if it turns out that humans are the only intelligent life in the galaxy.

Please, double down on stupidity. But first,
Dan8267 says

By the way, now that it has been proven by many sources that virginity tests are given in Indonesia, are you man enough to apologize for being wrong? 'Nuff said.

I see you're chicken-shitting out of addressing this. How predictable and sad.

Quigley says

Forget virginity tests, how about female genital mutilation? Still practiced by a majority in several African countries including Somalia, it involves the cutting out of the clitoris and vaginal lips to leave nothing but a scarred hole. This is typically done with a rusty knife or shard of glass without anesthetic of any sort. Infections are common and are often life threatening. Some women become sterile as a result of the infections. All survivors lose most of the sexual feeling in their vaginas.

I'm against any form of genital mutilation, male or female. But I have to ask, with reference to the above: Are those the same "rusty knives" and "shards of glass" that are used to mutilate men, or are they saving the extra rusty "rusty knives" and extra dull "shards of glass" to mutilate their women? (sarcasm alert, you actually believe these tales?) What I am trying to get you to understand is that all the horrific tales of Female GM in the western media are often wildly exaggerated for propaganda purposes, whereas as Male GM, which is very real (in the West AND in Africa), gets hardly any negative mention at all. And when something is wildly exaggerated, you should ask yourself "why?". Most of the time the reason is that factual truth is not bad enough to prove the point of "patriarchical oppression" or some such drivel.

I will include a link below to an article from The Atlantic. The first thing you should note is that circumcision is promoted and performed by the women, or the matriarchy.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-anthropologist/389640/

I repeat: No boy, girl, man or woman should be circumcised without informed consent.

One more time: No boy, girl, man or woman should be circumcised without informed consent.

Ironman says

lets recap what I posted

So you're too much of a pussy and weakling to admit that you were just plain wrong.

Us real men, have no problem admitting we were wrong and then changing our stances when evidence shows us what is right. I'd say that someday you'll grow up, but quite frankly, since you haven't yet, you're beyond hope.

Ironman says

I

Ironman says

want

Ironman says

a Plaid Zebra

Ironman says

to

Ironman says

shit

Ironman says

on

Ironman says

me

Ironman says

What does that tell you?

justme says

You got a boner and started wacking off

Ironman says

Oh, the horror!!!

CIC's Strategy: When you're losing an argument, just keep reposting the same dumb pictures that failed to prove a point the last hundred times you posted them. Repetition is the key to success, both in masturbation and arguments.

Ironman says

Dan's strategy: when he's lost an argument, resort to making up people's quotes

No, that's actually you. You deliberately misquote people all the time. The only two or three times I've taken your quotes out of context and strung them together to say something completely different like above has been to illustrate the utter stupidity of you having just done the same thing with far less creativity. So that once again demonstrates your total hypocrisy.

Ironman says

then start with sexual insults and references to sex with animals.

You seemed to have absolutely no problem making animal sex jokes yourself. Granted, they weren't as funny or creative as the ones I hurled at you, but clearly you're a hypocrite for complaining about this after having tried to make such jokes yourself.

Oh, and I have never lost an argument to you. You declare victory while everybody else is laughing their asses off how stupid you are. That's not winning. That's being delusional.

Patrick: can Ironman/CIC be banned from posting images? There is no information in them. It just clutters the threads.

Dan: Don't feed the troll. With VERY few exceptions, nobody believes what Ironman says about you. Just ignore him. Responding just generates clutter and detracts from the thread.

justme says

Patrick: can Ironman/CIC be banned from posting images? There is no information in them. It just clutters the threads.

why not just ignore him? that also makes you invisible to him when he's logged in.

there is still some improvement to be made to the ignore function i'm sure, but don't quite know what it is.

justme says

With VERY few exceptions, nobody believes what Ironman says about you.

We all know that. The problem is that CIC has been around for years and he's never going away until he's permabanned. The only use he could possibly serve is demonstrating that conservatives are stupid an morally bankrupt. There is a purpose in ridiculing the village idiot: to make sure no one else takes up the mantle.

If only ignoring this fool would make him go away, but he just enjoys his masturbatory victory dances too much. It's the only please he gets in his sad, little life.

However, I do see your point. CIC does derail otherwise interesting and productive conversations.

justme says

Patrick: can Ironman/CIC be banned from posting images? There is no information in them. It just clutters the threads.

why not just ignore him? that also makes you invisible to him when he's logged in.

I'll consider it. The one reason for not ignoring him is that he posts lots of threads that need to be counteracted. If I ignore, how can I un-ignore if needed?

why not just ignore him?

Ignoring a problem does not make it go away. Ignoring the spread of misinformation does not stop it but rather allows the misinformation to grow unchallenged. This is bad for society. Lies and misinformation should be stopped before it goes viral. How many children have died because Jenny McCarthy convinced people that vaccines cause autism?

CIC is a cancer on the Internet's ass.

justme says

If I ignore, how can I un-ignore if needed?

at the bottom of your profile

there is still some improvement to be made to the ignore function i'm sure, but don't quite know what it is.

Patrick, here is an idea, but as always it involves work: "Ignore images" (block images) on a per-user basis? I would select to block images from at least 3 people.

Dan said better what I wanted to say: Ignoring the spread of misinformation does not stop it but rather allows the misinformation to grow unchallenged.

ignoring images would not be too hard.

but i'm still reluctant to ban any user who does not actually physically threaten anyone, or post child porn, etc. simply being an asshole is not enough.

it's a hard problem.

This really comes down to a fundamental problem in Internet forums. Because of anonymity, people are comfortable saying batshit crazy things that they would not say in real life because if they did, everyone would call them an idiot and their reputation, the real one associated with their unchangeable real-world identity, would be ruined. So you don't say in public that you think Osama bin Laden is still alive.

However, without anonymity one cannot honestly discuss any political issue because anything you say on the Internet without anonymity can be held against you, rightfully or wrongly, by any prospective employer or customer.

There may be one solution to this problem. A solution that provides both anonymity and the inability to generate more than one identity. However, even that solution requires trusting the service provider not to cheat even if the algorithms are formally verified as correct.

In any case, anonymity is a double-edge sword. People with sad lives such as CIC will find a way to disrupt conversations if any chance is given to them. Short of implementing a trusted anonymous yet unique user generator, I suppose PatNet could require a SMS capable telephone number for ensuring uniqueness and permabanning trolls. That's not a perfect solution, but it is a reasonable one that would eliminate most trolls. It does require the user base to trust Patrick though.

but i'm still reluctant to ban any user who does not actually physically threaten anyone, or post child porn, etc. simply being an asshole is not enough.

Wait. So if I can get CIC to physically threaten me... On it!

Justme, theres a couple retards here that just don't get it. Dan is one of said retards that CiC trolls the fuck out of