What the Orlando attack says: US strategy against Islam is not working
2016 Jun 13, 5:20pm 3,039 views 12 comments
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marcus
2016 Jun 13, 5:34pm
Blah blah blah bs bs bs....
Stop thinking that economic opportunities and wealth are a cure. They aren't.
We need to confront this head-on at the ideological level. Islam ideas are extremely fragile and vulnerable to civilized discussion where it happens.
News flash: civilized discussion, that is, exposure to critical thinking opportunities, i.e. education in a somewhat secular environment is what comes with "economic opportunities and wealth "
You're partly right, but you're contradicting yourself.
marcus
2016 Jun 13, 5:41pm
That assumes that there is a strategy that would have prevented this from happening, other than automatic weapons with large clips being harder to obtain.
Heraclitusstudent
2016 Jun 13, 5:44pm
- 40% of British Muslims want sharia law.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
- only three percent of British Muslims "took a consistently pro-freedom of speech line on these questions."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/
- 27% of British Muslims do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist
- Brussels is predicted to become a Muslim majority city within 10 – 15 years.
Islamic extremists in Belgium have publicly threatened to kill the mayor of the Belgian city of Antwerp, Bart De Wever, if he does not convert to Islam
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/05/25/belgium-muslims-threaten-to-kill-mayor-of-antwerp-unless-he-converts-to-islam/
- Islam party mayors want to make Belgium an Islamic republic.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3442/belgium-islamic-state
- 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad (64% disagree).
51% Muslim-Americans think they should have the choice to live under Sharia instead of US law.
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf
- Charlie Hebdo journalists "deserved it" say school children (In french)
http://www.lesechos.fr/idees-debats/cercle/cercle-120878-pour-eux-terroriste-cest-positif-cest-guerrier-1082817.php
HydroCabron
2016 Jun 13, 5:54pm
It's says that Obama's and Hillary's strategy isn't working, yes.
Yes: even though that's also the strategy of Bush, Romney, Bush Pere, Reagan, and the vast majority of the security community. Obama and Hillary brainwashed them all, using a flux-capacitor time machine.
Anyone interested in conservative political correctness, take note:
1 - The ~10% of mass shootings perpetrated by Muslim fanatics are damning evidence that something must change
2 - The remainder, perpetrated by individuals from other groups, are just statistical flukes, and not a meaningful basis for drawing any conclusions about other public policy questions - please put them out of your mind
curious2
2016 Jun 13, 5:57pm
politicians can't bring themselves to recognize it.
Islam ideas are extremely fragile and vulnerable to civilized discussion where it happens.
No, you had it right the first time: "Islam is a defensive cult." You cannot deprogram cult members until they are removed from the cult, and even then it takes more than "civilized discussion." Reliigon is the opiate of the masses, and even intensive intervention suffers a high rate of relapse unless the cult ends entirely. Otherwise the believers continue to hear what they want to hear, and "defend" against all else by killing the blasphemer. BTW, technically "cult" refers only to new doctrines, e.g. Romnesia's Moronic cult, which seems modeled partly on Islam and is also growing fast: the duration and spread of these mental diseases proves their virulence, and if tolerated too long they become "religions", not "cults".
Heraclitusstudent
2016 Jun 13, 5:57pm
Stop thinking that economic opportunities and wealth are a cure. They aren't.
We need to confront this head-on at the ideological level. Islam ideas are extremely fragile and vulnerable to civilized discussion where it happens.News flash: civilized discussion, that is, exposure to critical thinking opportunities, i.e. education in a somewhat secular environment is what comes with "economic opportunities and wealth "
"New research from Queen Mary University of London has found youth, wealth, and being in full-time education to be risk factors associated with violent radicalisation. Contrary to popular views - religious practice, health and social inequalities, discrimination, and political engagement showed no links. "
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/274292.php
Of course I'm not saying that we should not educate people and expose them to critical thinking. I'm just saying that this is not a cure of radicalization. This is not how it works.
Heraclitusstudent
2016 Jun 13, 6:02pm
You cannot deprogram cult members until they are removed from the cult, and even then it takes more than "civilized discussion." Reliigon is the opiate of the masses, and even intensive intervention suffers a high rate of relapse unless the cult ends entirely.
Some people will never be cured.
It's about group identity. Once you establish the group is a bunch of medieval losers, people are less likely to identify with it. Once you teach children in school why none of this makes sense, most will walk away from it.
Heraclitusstudent
2016 Jun 13, 6:06pm
That assumes that there is a strategy that would have prevented this from happening, other than automatic weapons with large clips being harder to obtain.
I'm not talking of avoiding this attack or that one. This is already baked into the cake at this point.
I'm talking, in particular for Europe, about how to transform the current belief systems vs continuing on the current islamization slope.
MisdemeanorRebel
2016 Jun 13, 6:23pm
It is a time for people to smell the coffee and wake up. Stop thinking that simply ignoring the problem and avoiding confrontation will work. Stop thinking that economic opportunities and wealth are a cure. They aren't.
Yup.
Brunei, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, etc. prove wealth != Enlightenment Values.
MisdemeanorRebel
2016 Jun 13, 6:26pm
1 - The ~10% of mass shootings perpetrated by Muslim fanatics are damning evidence that something must change
By a fraction of 1% of the population, whereas mentally ill shooters and those from all other causes come from the other 99+% of the population.
That 0.2-0.3% is extremely disproportionate in generating mass shooters.
zzyzzx
2016 Jun 13, 7:36pm
Yes: even though that's also the strategy of Bush, Romney, Bush Pere, Reagan, and the vast majority of the security community.
Obama and Hillary seems to be the ones that really want to bring in more muslim immigrants (cough cough: terrorists) to the US.
Radical Islamic organizations like ISIS are hoping the west will attack Islam because they know Islam is a defensive cult. This would allow them to use the narrative of civilization clash: Islam is under attack and it is the due of all Muslim men to defend their faith. The cult would therefore coalesce and Muslims would automatically become more radical.
This is why Bush, Obama or Clinton are reluctant to say anything against Islam. It is their strategy to just absorb Muslims into their own secular US 'tribe' like they do with any other immigrants. The US 'integrates' this way millions of migrants. After a few generations of attending US schools, watching US TV, and otherwise living within US society, it is thought they become indistinguishable from any other American. Just avoid any confrontation, give them economic opportunities and it will work.
Unfortunately the problem we are starting to see is that it's not working well. Muslims are part of a 'cult' that lives within families and communities. It works like a sect and maintains a huge influence on its members regardless of how integrated they are within the US. Any identity crisis thus makes them easy targets for radicalization. The more these communities grow, the more they become self reflexive and closed to outside thinking.
This is what the attacks show, the current strategy is just not working.
The problem is still very minimal in the US, but Europe has a much larger Muslim population and the same strategy. It is even more obviously a complete failure and politicians can't bring themselves to recognize it. The uncontrolled admission of millions of additional Muslims is just making things worse. This is a path that could lead Europe to a catastrophic failure. With the help of demographic and time, it is no longer inconceivable to imagine an Islamic state in some parts of Europe by the end of the century.
It is a time for people to smell the coffee and wake up. Stop thinking that simply ignoring the problem and avoiding confrontation will work. Stop thinking that economic opportunities and wealth are a cure. They aren't.
We need to confront this head-on at the ideological level. Islam ideas are extremely fragile and vulnerable to civilized discussion where it happens. It is time we start having this discussion. This is clearly not the "war" ISIS is hoping for.