patrick.net

turtledove is deplorable says

The terror group also brutally assaulted beat three young men for playing football and wearing a T-shirt with Barcelona and Argentina star Lionel Messi, according to Iraqi News.

See, I learn something new every day... I didn't even know that the Koran prohibited such things. No Messi shirts? Talk about specific!

ISIS is losing control of Mosul. The resistance is getting bolder and doing acts of defiance such as painting murals. Some ISIS are turning tail, and others are cracking down on the acts through acts of brutality. I think it is only a matter of time (getting shorter) before there is a battle over control of Mosul.

Obama's plan for defeating ISIS without maintaining a permanent US presence in Iraq is working. Hopefully, we won't get roped into another war over there to show how tough we are. That would be deplorable.

turtledove is deplorable says

Isis has executed six young men with welding equipment in a horrific public execution in front of a huge crowd of onlookers.

Sounds like business as usual. Thankfully, the reign of ISIS is coming to an end. What will replace ISIS is the million dollar question.

And Iran is helping to defeat them?

Yes, shows how radical and fringe ISIS is. For sure.

Good god. A welding machine. The world hasn't seen things like that, in public, for about 500 years.

In other cheerie news, there is some evidence to suggest they are trying to use old chemical rounds on US troops.

Reminds me of Torquemada.

Rew says

Yes, shows how radical and fringe ISIS is. For sure.

Not to nitpick, but how does it show "fringe." They did this in front of a large gathering. No one stopped them either because they supported them or feared them. But who would fear a "fringe" group, which implies a small group? I'm just saying, they seem to have a lot of power and control over things for a fringe organization.

That is always how it works, group think, coercion, ideology rinse and repeat throughout history.

Rew says

Yes, shows how radical and fringe ISIS is. For sure.

Good god. A welding machine. The world hasn't seen things like that, in public, for about 500 years.

Torture and cruelty has always been embedded in Islamic punishments. What ISIS is doing represents nothing more than the classic form of Islam.

Terrorist organizations are not mainstream ideological and societal norms. As you rightly point out, there is a huge amount of fear allowing them to exist, and their actions are all about control through fear. That is how a smaller group can maintain control over a much larger group.

Anyone who believes ISIS is following an originalist/true interpretation of Islam is lending them all the support they need.

Rew says

Anyone who believes ISIS is following an originalist/true interpretation of Islam is lending them all the support they need.

Anyone who does NOT believes ISIS is following an originalist/true interpretation of Islam is denying the true cause of terrorism, cruelty and torture.

Strategist says

Anyone who does NOT believes ISIS is following an originalist/true interpretation of Islam is denying the true cause of terrorism, cruelty and torture.

Read the Koran. This is how Islam spread in the first place. The didn't hand out Muslim version of Jack Chick Tracts.

Whereas Christianity was first spread by evangelizing.

Strategist says

turtledove is deplorable says

Isis has executed six young men with welding equipment in a horrific public execution in front of a huge crowd of onlookers.

Sounds like business as usual. Thankfully, the reign of ISIS is coming to an end. What will replace ISIS is the million dollar question.

People are thirsty for this kind of spectacle.

Strategist says

Anyone who does NOT believes ISIS is following an originalist/true interpretation of Islam is denying the true cause of terrorism, cruelty and torture.

Yes, all terrorist motives, that ever have been or will be, stem from the single source of Islam. Or could it be more complex than that? No. you are probably right. It's just that easy ... Islam bad ... muslims all terrorists.

thunderlips11 is deplorable says

Read the Koran. This is how Islam spread in the first place.

Point me to the passage in the Koran where it says god commands them to spread by terror and oppression? You will have to do some very shaky and interesting interpretation to do that. Nothing widely adopted in mainstream Muslim belief today, for sure, prescribes to this.

thunderlips11 is deplorable says

Whereas Christianity was first spread by evangelizing.

Both religions (Islam and Christianity) were spread, at certain times in their history, at the point of a sword. Both religions predominantly gained converts not through force, but by willing adoption and evangelism: most often simply because of momentum of adoption and cultural immersion. Read any general history on the rise of these religions and you will see broad parallels.

- Both started start as egalitarian idealistic cults.
- Both expand slowly into local follower communities, and only after the deaths of their main leaders and formations of apostates/disciples, do they shed their anti-nationalist and egalitarianism, to push for state backers and aggressive expansion.
- Islam found its national backing faster. Christianity was slower and had to geographically expand farther, before Rome's embrace.

Think on this: I cannot name a single religion which didn't start as one of the most egalitarian and anti-nationlisitc ideologies the world knows. In their purest forms most religions look alike. I kind of like what the Bahai think with regards to this.

Rew says

Point me to the passage in the Koran where it says god commands them to spread by terror and oppression?

I'd also like to know where all of the Muslims were and what they were doing throughout the 20th century. I mean, it's not like the Koran was written on September 10th, 2001. Did they not have pressure cookers back then?

Rew says

Both religions (Islam and Christianity) were spread, at certain times in their history, at the point of a sword.

A lot of things, historically, were achieved by the sword, not just religion. But the point is... we all try not to do that anymore. Muslims have been around a very long time. Yet, they haven't grown. So because there was once a Spanish Inquisition, this makes it okay for Muslims to remain in a stunted state of perpetual dark & middle ages? That's ridiculous. They don't get to throw the world back a millennia and claim that's okay because when you go back a millennia, Christians showed they could be brutal, too.

Rew says

Strategist says

Anyone who does NOT believes ISIS is following an originalist/true interpretation of Islam is denying the true cause of terrorism, cruelty and torture.

Yes, all terrorist motives, that ever have been or will be, stem from the single source of Islam. Or could it be more complex than that? No. you are probably right. It's just that easy ... Islam bad ... muslims all terrorists.

You know, I have been branded a terrorist by Muslims for being an atheist. The Islamic laws demand that i pay them Jizya. I am a second class citizen because I am a kuffar. Yet, i get attacked for calling Islam bad and sharia laws bad. I don't even have my constitutional rights to speak out against disgusting sharia laws without being called a bigot by Islam apologists.

Rew says

Point me to the passage in the Koran where it says god commands them to spread by terror and oppression? You will have to do some very shaky and interesting interpretation to do that. Nothing widely adopted in mainstream Muslim belief today, for sure, prescribes to this.

“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” Quran 9:73.

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And disbelief is worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah, worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against the polytheists and wrong-doers, etc." Quran 2:191

Do you know the story of Muhammed in Mecca and Medina and how Islam spread in it's own birthplace? By fire and sword, during the lifetime of Muhammed and led and organized by Muhammed. That is the context of the above verse; Muhammed was mocked out of Mecca, fled to Medina, then sent assassins and raids against Mecca until finally besieging it, and slaying all those who failed to recognize him as the Peace Be Upon Him prophet of Allah.

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Muhammed himself ordered people assassinated for mocking his prophetic claims with snarky poetry. In fact, a Pagan poet and a Jewish poet calling him a nut who hears voices, were the first two victims of Islam. Slay those who insult the Prophet!

"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." - Quran (3:56)

"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." - Quran (4:74)

“I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.” Quran 8:12

“Let not the unbelievers think they will ever get away. They have not the power so to do. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy…” Quran 8:59-60

“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” Quran 9:5

(Although in practice many Muslims prefer to attack the unbeliever during Ramadan because they believe it gets them an exemption from daytime fasting).

There are so, so many verses endorsing aggressive, not defensive, violence in the Quran it would be ridiculous to post them all here.
http://freethoughtnation.com/what-does-the-koran-say-about-nonbelievers/

turtledove is deplorable says

So because there was once a Spanish Inquisition, this makes it okay for Muslims to remain in a stunted state of perpetual dark & middle ages?

The number of people executed by the Spanish Inquisition is estimated to be about 10,000 in about 4 centuries.

That's the number of people estimated to be killed by Islamists in a typical year TODAY. Most of the deaths are in the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia.

Rew says

Point me to the passage in the Koran where it says god commands them to spread by terror and oppression?

Lol... Was that supposed to be a rhetorical question?
Or were you seriously so naive as to think such passages didn't exist?

I am very much opposed to Islam. Strategist says

I don't even have my constitutional rights to speak out against disgusting sharia laws without being called a bigot by Islam apologists

You have expressed your disgust for Islam freely, which is Patnet's form of virtue signaling. I don't see how your rights have been trampled.

Others have disagreed with you, or called you a doofus, in line with their constitutional rights.

What is it with wingnuts conflating criticism with denial of 1st Amendment rights?

Would you prefer that the 1st Amendment say "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, and shall ensure that no spoken opinion shall be disagreed with"?

Heraclitusstudent says

Rew says

Point me to the passage in the Koran where it says god commands them to spread by terror and oppression?

Lol... Was that supposed to be a rhetorical question?

Or were you seriously so naive as to think such passages didn't exist?

That's exactly the bullshit you hear from the left and that's why DT is on the path to victory. The book is full of those passages and when you point them out by the dozens you always get predictable answers such as "this is misinterpreted! It means 'struggle'" or "but look at the old testament!" and equal horse manure. I have no problem with that, in the end everything is up for some sort of interpretations. But then leave every country and every citizen up to make their own interpretations and draw their own conclusions about what is dangerous and what not and what must be done - but unfortunately again the left is then there to tell you you're racist, xenophobic or any other made-up crap claims and hence you have no right to talk, vote and act like you do. Unbelievable. It goes both ways. If Hungary or the US wants to close their borders to secure their -- currently still prevailing home culture and traditions - they have the right to do so as everybody has the right to interpret every text the way they see fit.

YesYNot says

I'd also like to know where all of the Muslims were and what they were doing throughout the 20th century.

Well, the Ottoman caliphate were busy slaughtering a million Armenian Christians in the genocide that Turkey refuses to acknowledge and America doesn't officially call a genocide anymore, even though it was the first genocide of the 20th century. 100,000 Muslims joined the Nazis and fought for Hitler, due to the similarities between Nazi ideology and Islam, as pointed out by the Muslim Grand Mufti who urged Muslims to join the Nazis for that reason. They joined in the murder of millions of people, mostly Jews, but also the Muslims' other traditional enemies, basically anyone who doesn't submit to Islam. The government of Pakistan and local Islamists conspired to murder 3,000,000 Hindus in the former East Pakistan, now Bangladesh. Every year since RFK got assassinated by a Muslim, America has endured at least one attack, but I won't bore you with the whole list.

turtledove is deplorable says

in front of a huge crowd

This is why NATO governments try to prevent people from seeing the videos. The official cover story is because the videos recruit more jihadis inside NATO countries, which tells you something about the target audience. The videos don't recruit non-Muslims, that's for sure. To the contrary, the videos repel most NATO citizens, producing a NIMBY effect against the invade&import policy. Police kept finding so many videos on criminal migrants' smartphones that LiveLeaks had to implement (under government pressure) a policy banning the uploads. The apologists like to say that only 2% of the migrants/refugees are ISIL/Daesh who would tie you up and throw you off the top of a building. Maybe so, but I'm also concerned about the cheering crowd below, waiting for you to hit the sidewalk with broken legs, so they can stone you to death while shouting Aloha Snackbar. See a few of those videos, and you'll see right through the phony compassion of the invade&import crowd.

thunderlips11 is deplorable says

Most of the [10,000/yr] deaths are in the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia.

Coming soon to a neighborhood near you, your tax dollars at work, as per the policies of invade&import.

Meanwhile, I see the all wet cuckold has retreated into Ignoring me again. Somehow, the defenders of Islam can't bear the thought of it being exposed as a hateful fraud. It triggers a fight-or-flight response, beyond all reason. They panic completely when they see a cartoon, which children might laugh at and share, thus committing blasphemy, which is a capital offense per Islam, including in the Islamic "republic" of Pakistan.

Reminds me: I need to buy my Messi jersey for casual Friday, and maybe a Suarez, Neymar, Iniesta or Busquets jersey as well.

Go Barca!

It's estimated that Barcelona FC has in the neighborhood of 300 million fans, in places like Mosul, Afghanistan, Mongolia. At 40 million euro per year, Messi is arguably underpaid.

Well this was interesting reading, but my lunch break is now over and I have some welding to do...
I probably won't clamp my ground onto my coworker's nipple, shove my electrode up his ass, and crank the amps to 250... but then again I'm not a goddam Muslim.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

MESSI FUCKS ALLAH IN THE ASS!

Infidel, may Allah punish you with the death of a thousand dogs.

Strategist says

You know, I have been branded a terrorist by Muslims for being an atheist. The Islamic laws demand that i pay them Jizya. I am a second class citizen because I am a kuffar. Yet, i get attacked for calling Islam bad and sharia laws bad. I don't even have my constitutional rights to speak out against disgusting sharia laws without being called a bigot by Islam apologists.

Really? What country do you live in?

Rew says

Really?

I suppose it's typical of the invade&import crowd that they've never heard of an organization called Human Rights Watch, which reported on the fact that atheism is now considered terrorism, as per Islam, in Saudi Arabia and other "allied" Muslim countries. Atheism is necesarily blasphemy, which was always a capital offense in Sharia, and surveys have shown consistently that most Muslims in countries with Muslim majorities want Sharia, for example more than 80% in the Islamic "republic" of Pakistan, where Asia Bibi awaits her execution, paid for by American "aid" money, aka jizya to the Islamic "Republic" of Pakistan, which would otherwise be a failed state. Even the British dole now uses tax revenue to subsidize polygamous Muslim families (both officially and unofficially), producing the bizarre result that younger Muslims are actually more likely to support Sharia than the older generations who immigrated and didn't come from polygamous families. The polygamists receiving the dole from the Anglicans call it jizya, as per Islam; with four wives, each family can produce four jihadis a year. The Islamic State has begun publishing online "kill lists," including the home addresses of Americans living in America, usually blasphemers but also security workers and other potential HVTs, e.g. transit police.

Rew says

Really? What country do you live in?

The District of Persecution in the State of Outer Wingnuttia.

www.youtube.com/embed/cYhpN7tkBSU

By the way, around the 40 second mark, the "Teacher" explains why ISIS throws gays off of buildings, it's based on a Koran verse "reduce them to the lowest of the low."

www.youtube.com/embed/4gZCFdHkd4A

turtledove is deplorable says

Muslims have been around a very long time. Yet, they haven't grown.

Says who? Indonesia, Turkey, Malaysia, large portions of India ... even the US ... they are 6 million strong in the States and very progressive here. That's a population many bigger than a lot of muslim countries.

And as crazy as it will sound even Iran is becoming much more progressive. Their youth is 70 million strong and greatly likes Western Culture.

turtledove is deplorable says

So because there was once a Spanish Inquisition, this makes it okay for Muslims to remain in a stunted state of perpetual dark & middle ages? That's ridiculous. They don't get to throw the world back a millennia and claim that's okay because when you go back a millennia, Christians showed they could be brutal, too.

No, that doesn't justify ISIS's warped interpretation of Islam and their actions. It does refute the continued and consistent dialogue of Christianity being superior or somehow "above it". Ask the UK and Northern Ireland if they think Christian terrorism isn't a thing? The only time I've ever actually been afraid of a bombing was IRA action in the London underground.

If you want to find Christians beheading Muslims today, you can in the Central African Republic. I don't equate them with majority of Christian belief. Do you?
Nor do I equate this guy https://ballotpedia.org/Robert_Doggart as a representative of all politicians in the US. Do you?

It's stupid to take the radical fringe and think they are a majority voice. You will find a world full of enemies if you so easily form biased opinions like that.

HydroCabron says

The District of Persecution in the State of Outer Wingnuttia.

I hear white christian males are forced to use their own bathrooms there ... yeah, that's rough business.

Rew says

Says who? Indonesia, Turkey, Malaysia, large portions of India ... even the US ... they are 6 million strong in the States and very progressive here. That's a population many bigger than a lot of muslim countries.

Many parts of Malaysia and Indonesia were very liberal by Islamic standards: Easy Divorces, winking at occasional pork or alcohol consumption, etc. However, that was before 40 years of Saudi and Qatari oil money built Salafi-Wahabi maddrassahs and mosques, populated by Fundamentalist Clerics and Teachers paid for by our "Allies". Now you see Hijabs and Burkas in places where no such thing

Rew says

No, that doesn't justify ISIS's warped interpretation of Islam and their actions. It does refute the continued and consistent dialogue of Christianity being superior or somehow "above it". Ask the UK and Northern Ireland if they think Christian terrorism isn't a thing? The only time I've ever actually been afraid of a bombing was IRA action in the London underground.

At no point in the last 40 years has Christian Terrorism resulted in the deaths of 10,000s of people annually. The total death toll of the Troubles, including Civilians, IRA, Orangemen, British Soldiers, Irish Border Guards, etc. totals 3,568 - in more than 4 decades between 1969 to 2010. There was also a strong ideological as well as religious bent to the Struggle, with the IRA being Socialist and the Loyalists being Capitalists.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hRidYe3-avd7gvlZWVi1YZB7QY6dKhekPS1I1kbFTnY/edit#gid=0

thunderlips11 is deplorable says

By the way, around the 40 second mark, the "Teacher" explains why ISIS throws gays off of buildings, it's based on a Koran verse "reduce them to the lowest of the low."

Gosh, "their" radicals think those things? So do "ours" ...
www.youtube.com/embed/pnVK_BvtZSo
... start at 1:30.

www.youtube.com/embed/w83kIAfuKoE
... start at 0:43 ... bonus cure for aids and commands from Leviticus.

Maybe ISIS and our Christian radicals will come together and wipe out the bathroom and bedroom politics for us?

Things can't get better,as long as Muslims are killing Muslims.
As ALLAH WILLS!!!!

For Comparative Purposes, Pakistan in 2015 had 3,682 deaths from Terror, including the terrorists, security forces, civilians, etc. Just that one year. So more deaths by Terror in Pakistan in 2015 than the Entire Troubles over 4 decades.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/casualties.htm

thunderlips11 is deplorable says

At no point in the last 40 years has Christian Terrorism resulted in the deaths of 10,000s of people annually.

The LRA has claimed over 100,000 lives and displaced over 400,000 since formation in 1987. They are radical Christians.

Strategist says

You know, I have been branded a terrorist by Muslims for being an atheist. The Islamic laws demand that i pay them Jizya. I am a second class citizen because I am a kuffar. Yet, i get attacked for calling Islam bad and sharia laws bad. I don't even have my constitutional rights to speak out against disgusting sharia laws without being called a bigot by Islam apologists.

Know a lot of Muslims do you Strat? Live in a Muslim country that requires you to pay jizyah? Didn't think so. And you don't get attacked for calling out Sharia or certain tenets of Islam. You get called out because you generalize your dislike of Islam to include a frequently bigoted view of Muslims as a whole.

Rew says

Strategist says

You know, I have been branded a terrorist by Muslims for being an atheist. The Islamic laws demand that i pay them Jizya. I am a second class citizen because I am a kuffar. Yet, i get attacked for calling Islam bad and sharia laws bad. I don't even have my constitutional rights to speak out against disgusting sharia laws without being called a bigot by Islam apologists.

Really? What country do you live in?

Irrelevant to what i mean to point out.

Rew says

Gosh, "their" radicals think those things? So do "ours" ...

In the west we have gone through centuries of criticism (sometime heavy) of religion, and as a result, the catholic church and other christian faiths have much less mainstream influence than they use to. As far as I know there wasn't any widespread beliefs or terrorist attack against gays originating from Christianity in recent memories.

To not recognize that we have a unique problem with Islam is
- first, intellectually dishonest, because there obviously is
- second it is immoral (or at best morally confused) because by comparing it to a more benign faith you are in effect defending immoral beliefs.