patrick.net

I see twenty comments in there (maybe there's more if I can't see some that are ignored by me.

I only see two comments of mine in there. My opinion that at most one is worthy of being there is beside the point.

marcus says

Of three most recent comments of mine in comment jail, the one that was bad was edited and reposted in the same thread. The other 2, the 2 most recent are not ad hominem, or at least not enough that they should be in comment jail.

Stop complaining Marcus. No-one cares.

Strategist says

Stop complaining Marcus. No-one cares.

Amazing that you and Ironman have nothing better to do than care about this in a thread that's about me communicating with Patrick.

Note to Quigley: please don't waste my time or especially Patrick's time by having a hissy fit becasue you are busted for posting an ad hominem comment.

marcus says

Strategist says

Stop complaining Marcus. No-one cares.

Amazing that you and Ironman have nothing better to do than care about this in a thread that's about me communicating with Patrick.

You communicated in a public forum.
I'm just telling you the truth. No one cares if a comment went to jail. What's the bid deal?

Ironman says

You were having a PRIVATE conversation with Patrick in this thread?

I didn't say that it's private, but, I was pretty much talking to Patrick about things that shouldn't interest you.

Marcus said: "Why would people be better off to have arrogant right wingers in their neighborhood ? Or Italians ? Or Catholics, OR Jews, Or WASPS ? If you're asking the question, then there's something intrinsic to America that you don't get."

This is ad hominem. He is claiming that asking a question implies either ignorance or daftness. It is not an attack on an idea, it is an attack on the person who asked a legitimate question.

If it is not ad hominem then Marcus ought to be able to defend it by proving that Islam is either intrinsic to American ideals or that America somehow is not complete without Islam. This ought to be good. Please enlighten us with how you "get it" Marcus.

PeopleUnited says

He is claiming that asking a question implies either ignorance or daftness.

No, I'm claiming that an honest person wouldn't see much difference between your question and mine. IT goes without saying that this is my opinion. The idea that you think it's an attack on you makes no sense.

Stop asking me to defend Islam. I'm not going to defend obesity or ignorance or Rin or Atheists or Christians or racists or activists or Trump lovers or gun lovers or anyone else. This is America, and all those people are welcome here.

marcus says

Stop asking me to defend Islam. I'm not going to defend obesity or ignorance or Rin or Atheists or Christians or racists or activists or Trump lovers or gun lovers or anyone else. This is America, and all those people are welcome here.

They are not welcome. People who hate us are never welcome.

Strategist says

People who hate us are never welcome.

THen vet the immigrants to not be ones who hate us. IF they want to live here for an indefinite period of time and multiple generations, they probably don't hate us.

marcus says

PeopleUnited says

He is claiming that asking a question implies either ignorance or daftness.

No, I'm claiming that an honest person wouldn't see much difference between your question and mine. IT goes without saying that this is my opinion. The idea that you think it's an attack on you makes no sense.

Stop asking me to defend Islam. I'm not going to defend obesity or ignorance or Rin or Atheists or Christians or racists or activists or Trump lovers or gun lovers or anyone else. This is America, and all those people are welcome here.

Which is again ad hominem because there is a huge difference between the religion that gave the world the radical Islamic terrorist movement and obesity. But since you have made the analogy it is clear to me that you are disparaging both obesity and Islam which is interesting. It is clear that you hold both as a net negative with this analogy. But I wonder why you would equate obesity with Islam?

And thanks for your virtue signaling of your opinion that "all are welcome here". While I agree that every American citizen has the right to speak, believe and live the life they choose as long as it allows others to do likewise, I wholeheartedly disagree that America ought to allow those who would seek to undermine our liberty into this country. There is a world of difference between defending the rights of actual Americans to live as they choose and welcoming non-Americans to our country.

Marcus said: "THen vet the immigrants to not be ones who hate us. IF they want to live here for an indefinite period of time and multiple generations, they probably don't hate us."

It is probably not news to you that some have suggested that people of a certain religious persuasion are specifically the kind of people we ought to think twice about.

As far as hating America goes, the growing list of immigrants who have carried out terorist attacks is enough evidence to question your supposition that the desire to live here precludes the possibility of harboring hate of our people or liberty or religion or way of life.

PeopleUnited says

but wholeheartedly disagree that America ought to allow those who would seek to undermine our liberty into this country.

Straw man. I never said this. MY problem is with those who want to generalize that all Muslims should be treated as if they "would seek to undermine our liberty into this country." That's the part that's unamerican. People used to try to make up similar lies about pretty much every group that has immigrated here.

PeopleUnited says

And thanks for your virtue signaling of your opinion that all are welcome here.

I'm not virtue signaling. I'm not even talking about myself. I'm talking about what I believe America is. What still makes America great ! You're the one that's virte signalling, but it's not to a group that I respect, but "Believe me" your beliefs are considered virtues in those groups.

PeopleUnited says

Which is again ad hominem because there is a huge difference between the religion that gave the world the radical Islamic terrorist movement and obesity.

You clearly don't know what ad hominem means. And I included Christians gun lovers and other in my list. Why do you single out the obese ? I was just selecting random groups, but should have selected some you think I would love. Obese was just a random physical trait, I thought bald or tall, or short wouldn't work as well. The truth is that they say people are prejudiced against overweight people, so it kind of works relative to my point. Which you totally do not understand.

Are you by chance Fort Wayne ?

Well Marcus I don't believe you randomly selected any of the groups you disparagingly compared to Muslims.

And yes, I know what ad hominem is. For example, you now recently implied it is dishonest to believe that there is a difference between asking if Islam is a net positive or net negative in America and asking if obesity is a net negative or positive. It is both a red herring and ad hominem at once. That takes skill man!

Christians, Jews, red heads, Irish, Women, boomers, Millennials, what's the difference ? I'm not going to defend why any group should not be judged or ostracized with stupid generalizations.

You really don't get it do you.

Oh I get it Marcus, you got caught disparaging obesity in comparison to Islam and you are trying to rewrite the record. Why don't you like overweight people, or better yet why don't you like Islam?

Patrick, can you explain wth comment jail and ad hominem works? I just randomly selected ad hom on 4 different posts in retaliation for one of mine being clicked... this process seems legit LOL. Is there a rational review or anything?

@CBOEtrader the definition of ad hominem for this forum is just that the comment is attacking another user of the forum personally (eg "You are a goat fucker") instead of or in addition to attacking the user's point.

Comments marked ad-hom go into comment jail: https://patrick.net/adhom_jail.php

I get notified, and if it is a personal attack, I just leave it there. If not, I can "liberate" the comment so it appears back in its original thread.

If someone abuses the ability to mark comments ad-hom, I can remove that ability from them.

A user can edit his own comment in jail to remove the personal part, and I'll get notified and review the comment again.

If you disagree that some comment should be in jail, just let me know. I try hard to be fair.

CBOEtrader is just upset because he didn't get his way. He's still at the poo flinging level of the pyramid argument.

I added "thunderdome" to the title of this post to make it easier to talk about insults without worrying if the talking itself is ad-hom or not.

marcus says

Note to Quigley: please don't waste my time or especially Patrick's time by having a hissy fit becasue you are busted for posting an ad hominem comment.

I'm still waiting for my comment to be liberated from ad hominem jail. It didn't violate the rules and names nobody in particular. If you insist on abusing the system, prepare to be abused in return!

Wait, @Quigley you mean this comment of yours?

It's really quite amazing how he can serve up such inane prattle in service of stupid and viciously ignorant ideas and yet lack the cognitive capacity of a rutabaga.

That is totally ad-hom, isn't it?

Quigley says

you insist on abusing the system, prepare to be abused in return!

Yeah, nothing gay about that.

I looked up the definition.
1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
2.
relating to or associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"

My comment meets the criteria of 1. But not 2.
So I think maybe halfsies? LOL

If you edit it to remove the insult part I promise to release it!

I'm having problems following threads though. When 5 to 15 comments in a thread aren't visable, yet others are quoting them... This new format is increasing abrasive behavior and decreasing the value of the discussion, imho.

Ex: i just went into a thread w 9 comments, I could only see 1. The censorship lowers the value of a conversation.

Woah, which thread is that? Maybe you have a lot of people ignored, because the most comments in jail from any post is 5:

mysql> select comment_post_ID, count(*) as c from adhom_comments, comments
where adhom_comments.comment_ID=comments.comment_ID
group by comment_post_ID order by c desc;
+-----------------+---+
| comment_post_ID | c |
+-----------------+---+
|         1303438 | 5 |
|         1294075 | 3 |
|         1303282 | 3 |
|         1303489 | 2 |
|         1303505 | 2 |
|         1303246 | 2 |
|         1303356 | 2 |
|         1303370 | 2 |
|         1300316 | 2 |
|         1300748 | 1 |
|         1303098 | 1 |
|         1303100 | 1 |
|         1303568 | 1 |
|         1303192 | 1 |
|         1303571 | 1 |
|         1302109 | 1 |
|         1303331 | 1 |
|         1302808 | 1 |
|         1303316 | 1 |
|         1303414 | 1 |
|         1303450 | 1 |
|         1303456 | 1 |
|         1303483 | 1 |
+-----------------+---+

rando says

If you edit it to remove the insult part I promise to release i

Not worth it to lose the sheer poetry! The world is better off with more insults against Marcus.

rando says

Woah, which thread is that? Maybe you have a lot of people ignored, because the most comments in jail from any post is 5:

mysql> select comment_post_ID, count(*) as c from adhom_comments, comments
where adhom_comments.comment_ID=comments.comment_ID
group by comment_post_ID order by c desc;
+-----------------+---+
| comment_post_ID | c |
+-----------------+---+
|         1303438 | 5 |
|         1294075 | 3 |
|         1303282 | 3 |
|         1303489 | 2 |
|         1303505 | 2 |
|         1303246 | 2 |
|         1303356 | 2 |
|         1303370 | 2 |
|         1300316 | 2 |
|         1300748 | 1 |
|         1303098 | 1 |
|         1303100 | 1 |
|         1303568 | 1 |
|         1303192 | 1 |
|         1303571 | 1 |
|         1302109 | 1 |
|         1303331 | 1 |
|         1302808 | 1 |
|         1303316 | 1 |
|         1303414 | 1 |
|         1303450 | 1 |
|         1303456 | 1 |
|         1303483 | 1 |
+-----------------+---+

I havent ignored anyone. If other people are able to "ignore" me, and thereby block me from content, thats a real problem in your system, IMHO. It makes following threads impossible.

If someone wants to censor their own experience, fine. You cant allow users to censor the experience of others. That is the antithesis of your stated forum values

CBOEtrader says

If someone wants to censor their own experience, fine. You cant allow users to censor the experience of others. That is the antithesis of your stated forum values

That's a good point. I'm not too sure about the ignore thing.

I think I'm going to revert that to one way again. When someone ignores you, that won't stop you from seeing their comments.

rando says

That's a good point. I'm not too sure about the ignore thing.

I think I'm going to revert that to one way again. When someone ignores you, that won't stop you from seeing their comments.

Replace ignore with ban or have separate functions. Some people just don't want perma-trolls in their threads and disrupting conversations like those Middlebury nutcases. And the ad hom feature doesn't go far enough to stop that.

Ignore - I can't see your comments, preferably implemented as collapse the comments and let the user expand them at will.
Ban - You can't comment in my threads.

I suspect ban will be far more popular than ignore.

You just have to acknowledge that some pairs of persons will simply never get along and will never have a productive exchange with each other. Not everyone has to to talk to everyone else. If there is no will to do anything but throw poo at each other, there is no point to even attempting a conversation. All it does is prevent other productive conversations from taking place. There are rules to conversations that have nothing to do with content. The Middleburyfucks demonstrated the need for such rules perfectly.

The Middlebury disgrace was about not letting the other side speak at all.

Maybe instead of a ban, just a rate limit on comments in your own threads?

rando says

Maybe instead of a ban, just a rate limit on comments in your own threads?

Doesn't solve the problem of trolling. Again, some pairs of people just will never have a productive conversation with each other. Usually at least one of them is a complete ass, but if you want to pretend that there is no such thing as a completely bad person then fine. At least admit that some people hold grudges when they are made out to be fools and will do anything to disrupt other people's threads out of some delusional revenge fantasy. There is absolutely no point in letting such a person into the threads of one of his obsessions. And we all know who I'm talking about.

Ironman says

but when catering to Special Snowflakes, the whiners and crybabies always win.

If someone says, "I need to be able to have the ability to not see the pointless garbage that spews from CIC's mouth if I'm going to use this forum," that's hardly being a crybaby. This forum is basically like a product, and it's obvious that Patrick would want it to be appealing to those who want to engage in intelligent discussion and debate, and less appealing to trolls and idiots who seemingly want to ruin it for everyone except those special antisocial types such as themselves.

THe question is, who do you want the audience and users of the form to be ? Obviously not those Middleberry brats, but not the right wing version of the same (Ironman) either.

I think that so far the ad hominem feature is working to a good extent. The people that hate me, are less likely to make their "I can't believe they let you teach children"
when they know that comment disappears as soon as I (or hopefully others) see it and send it to comment jail.

Using the word "you" at all is an indication that it's about the user and not the point that the user is making.

Ironman says

it's a truthful statement they're making based on your past posting history.

EVen if so, this proves that you don't understand what Patrick just said, becasue this is what I'm talking about. But in any case no. My opinions or argument about income inequality, or police needing to be more competant and exercise more restraint in the use of their weapons, or Trayvon Martin or what ever commie pinko political argument you think I've made, have nothing to do with the teaching of Mathematics.

But since this is a Thundedome thread I will add, yes, you are a hateful and extremely emotionally challenged individual as I'm sure you must know and understand better than anyone.You would have to have figured it out by now. Although they say the character disorder personality type always thinks it's everyone else, and thus unlike the neurotic individual, the character disorder type is unable to ever overcome their emotional problems. Scott Peck, a psychiatrist by training defines this phenomenon as "evil," concluding that the only possible fix is an exorcism. https://www.amazon.com/People-Lie-Hope-Healing-Human/dp/0684848597/ref=pd_sim_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0XTWZRJ88N71SEYXN700

marcus says

ut since this is a Thundedome thread I will add, yes, you are a hateful and extremely emotionally challenged individual as I'm sure you must know and understand better than anyone.You would have to have figured it out by now. Although they say the character disorder personality type always thinks it's everyone else, and thus unlike the neurotic individual, the character disorder type is unable to ever overcome their emotional problems. Scott Peck, a psychiatrist by training defines this phenomenon as "evil," concluding that the only possible fix is an exorcism. https://www.amazon.com/People-Lie-Hope-Healing-Human/dp/0684848597/ref=pd_sim_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0XTWZRJ88N71SEYXN700

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!