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What you can do about Islamic terrorism


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2017 May 25, 9:24am   66,579 views  220 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (60)   💰tip   ignore  

The most important thing is to tell the truth no matter how much they shout "Islamophobia!"

The media and most of our so-called "leaders" still refuse to tell the truth that Islamic terrorism is caused by Islam itself.

Some countries in Europe have gone so far as to make it illegal to tell the truth about Islam. It takes courage to fight Islamic bombs and hate with mere words of sincere honesty, especially when you will be mocked by the media, perhaps fired from your job, and maybe even fined or imprisoned.

Bogus arguments that you can easily refute:

  • "Saying bad things about Islam is Islamophobic".

    What if those things are true, and well documented by Muslims themselves? Doesn't that make Muslim apologists Truthophobic?

  • "Islamic terrorism is caused mostly by US policy in the Mideast"

    Then how do you explain Islamic murder of random innocent people in Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Argentina, Russia, Nigeria, Kenya, India, China, Thailand, Bali, the Phillipinies, etc? They had nothing to do with US policy in the Mideast.

    It is, however, valid to point out that Islamic terror in each country generally followed Saudi funding of Wahhabi madrassas (Koranic schools) in that country, and that America always supports Saudi Arabia no matter what they do. So it is Americas fault to some degree, for supporting Saudi Arabia. And it is also true that George W Bush's attack on Iraq in bogus "retaliation" for the Saudi attack on America on 9/11 greatly inflamed the existing problem. Bush should be in jail for starting a war under false pretenses.

  • "American wars are also terrorism"

    No, terrorism is the deliberate murder of random unarmed civilians. America does not try to kill civilians. If we did try, they would all be dead.

    The only reason we are not all dead is that the Islamic world is so weak and ineffective.

  • "Islamic terrorism is caused by inequality and poverty"

    Not it's not. Most terrorists are fairly well educated and not poor. In fact, propensity to Islamic terrorism increases with income and education. Osama bin Laden was very rich.

    Islamic terrorism is motivated mainly by a desire to prove devotion to Islam to other Muslims, and to one's family. "See, look how many kuffar I killed! Aren't you proud?" The horrifying part is that most so-called "moderate" Muslims and the families of terrorists are indeed proud of the terrorists for "fighting back" against dirty unbelievers by killing random unarmed civilians, such as teen girls in Manchester.

  • "Muslims used to be more peaceful, so it's something we've done to them."

    No, Muslims were always this way. What's different is that now they can use the Internet, and especially YouTube, to share and amplify their resentment of all non-Muslims and their bomb-making techniques. Google helps terrorists by spreading terrorist ideology via YouTube.

    If you've done anything to offend Muslims, it's simply being part of a successful, generally happy and tolerant non-Muslim society, clearly proving that Islam is not only unnecessary, but obviously a huge impediment to success, happiness, and tolerance.

    "In March 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

    "It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.[25]

    Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of Foreign Affairs John Jay, who submitted the ambassador's comments and offer to Congress. Jefferson argued that paying tribute would encourage more attacks."

    Note the year, 1786. The Constitution was created in 1787, and ratified in 1788. The reason we have a Constitutional republic is largely to enable Congress to raise an army and navy, and the reason America needed that was largely because Islam says what it says.

    See https://patrick.net/1306992/2017-06-05-saudi-arabia-egypt-bahrain-uae-cuts-off-diplomatic-relations-with-qatar#comment-1416821

  • "Christians are terrorists too"

    So rarely as to make the comparison comical. The difference is about 1,000-fold. For every Christian attack on an abortion clinic there are about 1,000 Islamic attacks on random people. See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

  • "Christianity also teaches evil things"

    No, Jesus himself did not rob, rape, or kill anyone. Mohammed robbed, raped, and killed lots of people. For just one example of many, Mohammed murdered Safiya's father, then tortured her husband to death to get him to tell the location of his money, then raped her the same day, according to Islamic history.
    There is no exhortation to hate in the New Testament, but butt-hurt resentment of non-Muslims is the main theme of the Koran and the hadith. See https://patrick.net/Islam

    It is true that the Old Testament has some similarities to Islam in its very harsh punishments for violating its rules, and some genocidal wars.

  • "Islam is tolerant of other religions"

    No, Islam allows Jews and Christians to remain alive (outside of Saudi Arabia) but only if they pay an annual ransom (jizya) to Muslims under deliberately humiliating conditions, and "feel themselves subdued". Hindus, athiests, and members of other religions are officially not allowed to live at all, and must be killed, according to Islam. No other religion is allowed to exist in Saudi Arabia. No synagogues or churches, no torahs or bibles allowed.

    Anyone who leaves Islam must also be killed, according to Islam. And this is actually the law in many Islamic countries.

  • "But Jesus is part of Islam too"

    Not the same "Jesus" at all. Muslims believe that Jesus was a Muslim first of all, and was never crucified and reject the whole story about his redeeming mankind with his own sacrifice. They also believe he will come back in the final days to kill the Jews. They use the name "Isa" and say he is the same Jesus, but he's obviously a totally different guy with far different ideals. They do not include the gospels at all in their beliefs.

  • "But I have good Muslim friends. They would not murder people."

    Of course, most Muslims are better human beings than Muslims. If they are friends with you at all, they are already violating Islam, for the Koran says (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends. It's good to be friends with them, and to tell them the truth about Islam because they will listen if you are friendly and don't make it about them personally.

  • "Muslims tell me that Islam doesn't teach those awful things"

    Lying to non-Muslims is officially a praiseworthy part of being a Muslim. Muslims are encouraged to lie about anything that makes Islam look bad. You can easily look up the truth for yourself. See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for a good introduction to the truth.

  • "Terrorist are not real Muslims"

    Sorry, but they are actually very authentic Muslims doing what their religion commands them to do. Who are you to tell them they are not Muslim? They are giving their lives for Islam by killing unbelievers. At least they are honest about it. If they are not Islamic, then Mohammed was not Islamic either. The head of ISIS has a PhD in Islamic studies. He knows exactly what he's doing and why.

    If someone says "radical Islam", you should ask them which version of the Koran these radicals are reading and acting on. Is it any different from the moderate Muslims' Koran?

  • "Most Muslims are not terrorists"

    True, but most terrorists are indeed Muslim, and most "moderate" Muslims have sympathy for radical Muslims' terrorist attacks. And so we have the saying "Radical Muslims want to kill you. Moderate Muslims want radical Muslims to kill you."

  • "It's racist to talk about the connection between Islam and terrorism."

    No it isn't. Islam has made murderers out of people of all races. It's very egalitarian that way. Chinese Muslims murder random non-Muslims in China, and Nigerian Muslims murder random non-Muslims in Nigeria. The only thing they have in common is the Islamic teaching to hate and murder non-Muslims.

  • "We need to open our doors to refugees"

    No, Muslim countries need to open their doors to Muslim refugees, especially oil-rich Muslim countries. The majority of so-called "refugees" are angry young men looking for easy money and easy women in the West. The legitimate Muslim refugees are nonetheless still infected with a very dangerous virus of the mind, and their children often grow up with hate for the host countries that generously took in their parents, such as the Manchester bomber who blew up all those teen girls.

  • "The principal victims of Islam are other Muslims"

    This is true. But we are talking about protecting ourselves from Islam here.

  • "You're more likely to get attacked by a shark than murdered by a terrorist"

    Nope, there are only about 20 shark attacks per year, and Islamic terrorist attacks kill tens of thousands worldwide and are increasing exponentially.

  • "The constitution forbids excluding Muslims based on religion"

    No, the constitution forbids the government from establishing a state religion. Non-citizens may be excluded from entry for any reason or no reason at all. Islam is more than just a religion. It is a violent subversive political movement which demands that secular government be overthrown and replaced with sharia. We banned communists for decades for much less violence and subversion.

  • "It's pointless and dangerous to offend a billion Muslims"

    No, it's more dangerous to shut up and let your family and civilization die because you were merely too sensitive to speak the truth in time. Muslims are human beings. Deep in their core they know that there is something very wrong with Islam, and they need encouragement from millions of honest people to admit this so that they can free themselves and rejoin the rest of humanity. If you speak with respect and sincerity, they are likely to listen.

    They never hear the truth about Islam in their home countries, so it's up to us. Speak up or die.

  • "There is nothing you can do"

    OK, then Islamic atrocities are now to be expected and tolerated and there is no reason to be alarmed. Please continue moving toward the slaughterhouse in an orderly manner.

Here are some nonviolent ways we can end Islamic terrorism in the West: End all Islamic immigration, instantly revoke citizenship and deport all members of the extended families of anyone who commits terrorism in the West (this idea was proposed by an English Muslim in the wake of the Manchester bombing), allow freedom of speech about Islam, and stop teaching that Islam is a religion of peace, because it is not. And Trump has a good line: Islamic terrorists are losers, so call them that.

If you want to take the long view, stop using foreign oil, and demand that we cut off all diplomatic relations with the ultimate source of almost all terrorism: Saudi Arabia.

Permission is granted to copy this and distribute it. Please do, in fact. Copy it to your own website and look back here for updates now and then.

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21   missing   2017 May 25, 4:00pm  

This site is turning into a kindergarten.

I'm tempted to try to get myself Ironman-ed

22   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 4:00pm  

Patrick says

What you can do about Islamic terrorism

Become an atheist.

23   curious2   2017 May 25, 4:02pm  

YesYNot says

Trump suggested punishing the families during the campaign. I forget the punishment.

Israel demolishes the homes that the terrorists lived in, on the theory that harboring terrorists is aiding and abetting and thus also a crime.

Families of Islamic terrorists are often eligible for rewards from other Muslims. The Orlando terrorist transferred assets in a gift to relatives, and used a life insurance policy to enrich his soon-to-be merry widow. The father sold life insurance, so it seems likely there may be other policies. Prohibiting people from profiting from their own crimes is a valid legal remedy. So, those payments should be seized, and it would be legitimate to require anyone receiving such a payment to report it. Attempting to profit as a beneficiary of terrorism is in itself an act that can generally be criminalized.

24   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 4:02pm  

Patrick says

Jesus himself did not rob, rape, or kill anyone.

But his followers sure as hell did. I have yet to see any evidence that Christianity is effective at teaching morality to its followers. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Who would you trust with your life, a fundamental Christian or a compassionate rationalist like Sam Harris? If you had to fill the world with one of these two options, which would make the more peaceful world?

25   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 4:03pm  

MMR says

But let's waste time by debating the evil of Christianity

Arguing that Christianity is the way to fight Islam is like arguing that sexual assault is the way to fight rape. It's just a lesser degree of the same evil.

26   Patrick   2017 May 25, 4:13pm  

marcus says

Wow ! They're gone now, soI can't quote examples..

What? I didn't delete anything. I liberated some comments from comment jail. So they should be visible right back where they originally were.

27   missing   2017 May 25, 4:14pm  

Hey George,

How extended is the extended family you want to punish?

28   FortWayne   2017 May 25, 4:21pm  

You don't see benefits of Christianity? Try entire western culture you blind fool.

Dan8267 says

Patrick says

Jesus himself did not rob, rape, or kill anyone.

But his followers sure as hell did. I have yet to see any evidence that Christianity is effective at teaching morality to its followers. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Who would you trust with your life, a fundamental Christian or a compassionate rationalist like Sam Harris? If you had to fill the world with one of these two options, which would make the more peaceful world?

29   Patrick   2017 May 25, 4:24pm  

Israel has managed to stop the suicide bombings in its own country. The last was in 2008 I think.

If you read about it, most of the credit is given to the wall they built.

Israel also demolished the houses of suicide bombers' families, and claim that did have some deterrence effect.

30   curious2   2017 May 25, 4:25pm  

FP says

Hey George,

How extended is the extended family you want to punish?

Is that a continuation of your previously calling me a "monkey" after I proved you wrong about something, are you now trying to call me Curious George? I'm guessing that you're trying to reduce PatNet to the "kindergarten" playground you complained of, and get Ironmanned as you said you wanted, but as far as I'm concerned it won't even get an "ad hominem" click.

I haven't actually expressed any desire to punish "extended family" per se, but I would definitely follow the money and pursue co-conspirators and accessories before and after the fact. That should include, among others, those who told the terrorist to do what he did.

I have also proposed that the Department of State should publish a list of places that are actively waging war against the United States, including the Islamic State and KSA, and prohibit anyone from going to a listed place without authorization. Anyone who chooses to go to a specifically listed place without authorization would thereby lose any right to come here, or return here, including renouncing citizenship. I would accompany that with a nationwide offer of free tickets to Mecca for anyone who wants to go there. I would add ubiquitous reminders that Islam commands all believers must go to Mecca if they can afford to; Islam holds no rewards for you if you choose not to go, so if you choose not to go then you might as well renounce the whole fraud. Those measures should get the believers out so the apostates can renounce without getting killed by the believers.

31   Patrick   2017 May 25, 4:38pm  

I'd love all that, but there are a few geopolitical matters to solve first:

* the Saudis own some large portion of US debt (14% of it?) and could sell and make it harder for the US government to borrow
* the Saudis price oil in dollars, and could switch to Euros, further destabilizing the US economy
* China and India would probably be quite happy to buy whatever Saudi oil we do not, and Russia might be happy to become the good military friend that the Saudi royal family needs to keep their heads attached to their bodies

Oil is power. Literally the power to move machines, and that gets transformed via politics into political power.

First thing, we need to be come energy-independent through using our own oil and converting to solar as rapidly as possible. Solar has the potential to provide far more energy than we are using right now. We don't really try hard to use it because of the pressure by oil interests to keep using oil.

32   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 4:44pm  

FortWayne says

You don't see benefits of Christianity? Try entire western culture you blind fool.

Unlike you, I actually know western history, and it's not based on Christianity. It's based on
1. Rationality
2. Liberalism
3. Mathematics
4. Science

Three of the four of those things predate Christianity by 2500 years.

But hey, why let historical fact get in the way of your fantasy.

You want to know what Christianity contributed to the western world? Here's a chart that illustrates that.

And here's a bonus chart.

33   FortWayne   2017 May 25, 4:47pm  

No Dan our entire country is founded on Christian principles. Our founders were moral Christian men, and our laws and everything is based on those underlying principles.

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

You don't see benefits of Christianity? Try entire western culture you blind fool.

Unlike you, I actually know western history, and it's not based on Christianity. It's based on

1. Rationality

2. Liberalism

3. Mathematics

4. Science

Three of the four of those things predate Christianity by 2500 years.

But hey, why let historical fact get in the way of your fantasy.

You want to know what Christianity contributed to the western world? Here's a chart that illustrates that.

34   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 4:47pm  

Another great chart showing what is really responsible for western civilization...

35   HEY YOU   2017 May 25, 4:49pm  

Dan8267 says

Patrick says

What you can do about Islamic terrorism

Become an atheist.

All religious practitioners are insane, believing in something that no facts can prove.
So,Big foot is real.Santa Clause is real. Fairies are real. The Easter Bunny is real. Unicorns are real.Leprechauns are real. Hercules! Hercules!
Your military tracks Santa on radar each Christmas Eve.
I read about these in a book written by man, therefore they are real.
Even some religious people tell their children about the above.
Why do these believers LIE to their loved ones.

www.youtube.com/embed/tXsxvdF481I

36   curious2   2017 May 25, 4:49pm  

rando says

First thing, we need to be come energy-independent through using our own oil and converting to solar as rapidly as possible. Solar has the potential to provide far more energy than we are using right now.

I agree with both and they're legal and nobody has any cause to complain about either.

rando says

* the Saudis own some large portion of US debt (14% of it?) and could sell and make it harder for the US government to borrow

If Sy Hersh and others are correct that the KSA government aided and abetted OBL, including paying Pakistan to hide OBL in Abbottabad, then that's casus belli: seize all assets immediately.

rando says

* the Saudis price oil in dollars

During the campaign, candidate Trump said that we should "take the oil." He said that about Iraq, Libya, and he may also have implied it about KSA. We can also price oil in Dollars.

rando says

China and India would probably be quite happy to buy whatever Saudi oil we do not...

I'd be delighted to see us balance our trade with China by selling them the formerly Saudi oil.

rando says

Russia might be happy to become the good military friend that the Saudi royal family

President Putin is on record answering criticism of Russia by saying Saudi Arabia is worse. He'd probably be even happier to see us snap out of the hypnosis paid for by Petrodollar baksheesh.

IMO, that is precisely the scenario that the KSA-funded patronage networks in MIC and MSM are trying to prevent. They're not stupid, but they want to keep their gravy train going, and President Trump might derail their patronage networks if he gets around to making America great. They're using carrots (probably $$$$) and sticks (baseless investigations, empty threats of impeachment, endless MSM distractions) to prevent him from doing what he campaigned on.

37   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 4:50pm  

FortWayne says

No Dan our entire country is founded on Christian principles.

Honey, just because you declare something, doesn't make it the truth. Democracy has NOTHING to do with Christianity. Our electric grid, car, the Internet, airplanes, cures for diseases, all have NOTHING to do with Christianity. Those things have to do with science.

The only thing your Christianity gave us was the Dark Ages, plagues, the Holocaust, dozens of genocides in America, and a prison system designed to maximize recidivism and profits.

38   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 4:54pm  

FortWayne says

Our founders were moral Christian men, and our laws and everything is based on those underlying principles.

The founding fathers based the governement on the Age of Enlightenment, not the Iron Age during which Christ allegedly lived. Here are their very words.

“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
- John Adams

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding...."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
- U.S. Treaty with Tripoli, 1797

We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Christian nation. Our founding fathers explicitly and clearly excluded any reference to “God” or “the Almighty” or any euphemism for a higher power in the Constitution. Not one time is the word “god” mentioned in our founding document. Not one time. You are attempting to rewrite history with lies.

39   Patrick   2017 May 25, 4:58pm  

Somehow Germany has a great GDP per capita while using half the oil we do per person.

40   missing   2017 May 25, 5:09pm  

WTF, curious2? Did you think I'd read that rant? Take it easy buddy.

41   Shaman   2017 May 25, 6:12pm  

Dan8267 says

But his followers sure as hell did.

The closest example of this I could find was when Jesus was arrested, Peter took his sword and struck the ear from a Roman guard. In response, Jesus corrected Peter and restored the guard's ear.

People who murder and rape aren't following Jesus, clearly.

42   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 6:19pm  

Quigley says

The closest example of this I could find was when Jesus was arrested

How about looking at examples from 340 A.D. to 1945 A.D. Or do you just want to ignore that small part of Christian history?

43   Patrick   2017 May 25, 6:23pm  

Whereas Mohammed murdered his enemies:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/index.html

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/52750

Typical example: The 60 year old Mohammed murdered pretty 17 year old Jewess Safia's father and brothers, tortured her husband to death, and then fucked her same day breaking his own rule of no sex with captured women for 30 days.

He's just like Jesus because all religions are about equally bad, right Dan?

44   Strategist   2017 May 25, 6:52pm  

rando says

his own rule of no sex with captured women for 30 days.

Oh such a decent guy Mohammad was. Such class, such empathy, such a wonderful conscience. As they say......Mohammad was the perfect human being.
Why couldnt Jesus be like him?

45   socal2   2017 May 25, 6:53pm  

rando says

Somehow Germany has a great GDP per capita while using half the oil we do per person.

Isn't most of that attributed to the fact that Germany is much smaller geographically whose major cities were built along existing rail lines and people aren't driving 1 hour commutes to their jobs?

Also, Germany doesn't have the same extreme hot and cold climates like we have in the US requiring air conditioning and heat.

46   Zee   2017 May 25, 7:03pm  

Aren't radical Muslims just Muslims...?

47   Strategist   2017 May 25, 7:06pm  

socal2 says

rando says

Somehow Germany has a great GDP per capita while using half the oil we do per person.

Isn't most of that attributed to the fact that Germany is much smaller geographically whose major cities were built along existing rail lines and people aren't driving 1 hour commutes to their jobs?

Also, Germany doesn't have the same extreme hot and cold climates like we have in the US requiring air conditioning and heat.

So true. They have a wonderful public transportation system, and smaller cars. Japan, UK, France, all use less oil on a per capita basis.
We are rich Americans, we are supposed to splurge.

48   Strategist   2017 May 25, 7:07pm  

Zee says

Aren't radical Muslims just Muslims...?

Yes. Islam is a radical religion. Therefore an average practicing Muslim must be radical.

49   Zee   2017 May 25, 7:12pm  

Strategist says

Zee says

Aren't radical Muslims just Muslims...?

Yes. Islam is a radical religion. Therefore an average practicing Muslim must be radical.

I mean, they are doing what their holy scriptures demand. Death to infidels and all that. sigh smh...Humanity really ought to grow up.

50   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   2017 May 25, 7:13pm  

Oil is used for transport. Germany is small and dense. Industry doesn't use much oil. Very little is used for electricity, and less and less is used for heat.

51   missing   2017 May 25, 7:15pm  

Patrick, did Mohammed do worse things than Jehovah? What about Zeus vs. Jehovah?

Since you have become such an expert on the tales of magical beings and those who communicate with them, as well as those who believe the said tales, why don't you do a ranking:
1. badness of magical being
2. badness of magical being communicator (a.k.a. prophet)
3. badness of believers

52   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 7:15pm  

rando says

He's just like Jesus because all religions are about equally bad, right Dan?

I've said many times that all religions are not equally bad and that any religion is not equally bad throughout all centuries. However, there are several truths that cannot be denied.

1. All religions are intrinsically bad. It is bad to base any decision on a lie.
2. You cannot fight one irrationality with another. You can only fight irrationality with rationality.
3. Christianity has severe consequences in the United States. It harms our rights and it causes bad policy making that threatens the continuing existence of our species through ecological collapse and nuclear war.
4. There is no up side to promoting irrational lies. You cannot fool people into being better persons. You can only fool them into being worse.

Arguing that we should embrace Christianity because it's better than Islam is like arguing we should embrace rape because its better than murder. That's a false choice. Lesser evils enable greater evils. The police call this The Broken Window Theory. It applies to religion and all irrational superstitious nonsense as well.

At the heart of all religions is a lie, and that lie makes them corruptible.

Tell me Patrick, do you really believe Jesus is a god and that he rose from the dead? Can you really square that crazy myth with your scientific knowledge and understanding of the universe? And if not, do you really believe in the Useful Lie Hypothesis?

53   Shaman   2017 May 25, 7:26pm  

Dan8267 says

Christian history?

Since "Christian" defines as "follower of Christ," and you're not following Christ when you commit atrocities (even if you claim to be doing His work), then I fail to see your point!

http://www.theonion.com/article/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule-222

54   Strategist   2017 May 25, 7:32pm  

Dan8267 says

1. All religions are intrinsically bad. It is bad to base any decision on a lie.

2. You cannot fight one irrationality with another. You can only fight irrationality with rationality.

3. Christianity has severe consequences in the United States. It harms our rights and it causes bad policy making that threatens the continuing existence of our species through ecological collapse and nuclear war.

4. There is no up side to promoting irrational lies. You cannot fool people into being better persons. You can only fool them into being worse.

Do you realize how irrational you are when every time you claim we must destroy Christianity first in order to destroy Islam? I totally agree with your #2.

Dan8267 says

Arguing that we should embrace Christianity because it's better than Islam is like arguing we should embrace rape because its better than murder. That's a false choice. Lesser evils enable greater evils.

We should not embrace any religion, because nonsense is still nonsense. However, Muslims that kill should embrace Christians that don't kill, because that is a step in the right direction. That is, if they must believe in a God.

55   curious2   2017 May 25, 7:42pm  

Strategist says

should embrace

Actually, if they must have a religion, I would suggest for their consideration the religions of their ancestors who did better in the same places. Afghanistan was better off Buddhist, which is why the Muslim Taliban destroyed the ancient Buddhist sculptures: the Muslim Taliban could only destroy, and they hated seeing proof that their ancestors' Buddhist civilization knew how to build. The Persian ancestors of today's Iranians were better off Zorastrian, but Islam commands Muslims to kill Zorastrians, so there are none left anymore. Iraqis were better off in the time of Babylon, and Syria was better off Roman, which is why the Islamic State destoyed the ancient idols of both of those civilizations; Islam crushes everything un-Islamic. I don't suggest launching another Crusade, as W said he was doing.

56   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 7:44pm  

Quigley says

Since "Christian" defines as "follower of Christ," and you're not following Christ when you commit atrocities (even if you claim to be doing His work), then I fail to see your point!

Let's apply this No True Scottsman argument to Islam.

Islam is a religion of peace. Therefore when you cannot be a Muslim if you commit atrocities even if you clam to be doing Allah's work. So stop blaming Islam for all the Islamic terrorism.

57   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 7:47pm  

Strategist says

Do you realize how irrational you are when every time you claim we must destroy Christianity first in order to destroy Islam?

1. I did not claim that. I claimed supporting Christianity aids Islam and that the only way to defeat Islam is with rationality. The order of the fading of the religions is not important. Undermining faith itself is what is important.
2. Just because you claim something is irrational doesn't make it so. Demonstrate why I am wrong instead of making baseless assertions.

58   justme   2017 May 25, 7:49pm  

I'll expand on and pose similar questions to those I posted in the other thread:

Why is it not terrorism for Christian nations (US and so many European allies) to bomb and shoot and maim and kill rampantly all over the middle east for the last 15 years, for no valid moral reason, in fact mostly for all kinds of morally reprehensible real reasons that are rarely spoken.

What is it about the special American brand of self-worship that causes America always to start wars against people that are deemed guilty by association, unworthy, unexceptional or just plain unwilling to worship and submit themselves to be servants of our supposed moral and economic superiority?

Why is it deemed particularly wrong for some people to use their religion to rally their troops against our immoral actions? Why is the American self-worship never blamed for anything? Why is the other party's religion automatically to blame?

The real religion of America is a smug belief in the superiority of America over all others. Perhaps we could call it Americanism?

All the wars in the middle east are wrong. None of them should ever have happened. After Vietnam, you would think that the Americans had learned something. But no, they are just as convinced of their own moral superiority as ever, and they are more than willing to kill anyone that dares to disagree. After all, they are just subhuman people of an inferior religion.

When you think about it, what does this remind you of?

59   Dan8267   2017 May 25, 7:51pm  

Strategist says

if they must believe in a God

That premise isn't true. Man does not have to believe in a god. The Soviets proved that thoroughly.

The rise of atheism and agnosticism also demonstrates that belief in no god is necessary. The more atheists there are in a society, the more acceptable it becomes and the harder it is for any religion to get a foothold. Atheism is on the rise.

60   Strategist   2017 May 25, 7:51pm  

curious2 says

Strategist says

should embrace

Actually, if they must have a religion, I would suggest for their consideration the religions of their ancestors who did better in the same places. Afghanistan was better off Buddhist, which is why the Muslim Taliban destroyed the ancient Buddhist sculptures: the Muslim Taliban could only destroy, and they hated seeing proof that their ancestors' Buddhist civilization knew how to build. The Persian ancestors of today's Iranians were better off Zorastrian, but Islam commands Muslims to kill Zorastrians, so there are none left anymore. I don't suggest launching another Crusade, as W said he was doing.

Yup, they are better off with the religion of their ancestors. The Zorastrians of Iran took refuge in India. Those who stayed behind got raped, converted to Islam, or slaughtered.
Afghanistan was Buddhist and Hindus. The Arab countries believed in different Gods.
Anything is better than this fucked up religion. The worst religion to ever hit mankind.

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