patrick.net

"I'm not sure what else I can do to help you"

Well, there's your problem. I clearly don't need your help. You need to help yourself first. When you have an understating of how revenues affect a budget, then you can come back here and try again.

joeyjojojunior says

It's that if you somehow dumped Chicago into Lake Michigan, I don't think it would be a net gain for the state.

Chicago already has it's own budget problems all by itself, which suggests that it would be a net gain for the state.

joeyjojojunior says

Wow--that post should be nominated.

I think he is asking what good revenue is if it is going to be siphoned off anyway and taxation is increased to make up for the shortfall caused by said siphoning.

"ILLINOIS IS BROKE & Democrats Did It $130 BILLION in Unfunded Pension Liabilities Alone Democrats gave their kickbacks to unions that way"

Actually both parties are to blame for this mess. IL has had Republican governors more than Dem governors over the last 30 years..

MMR says

I think he is asking what good revenue is if it is going to be siphoned off anyway and taxation is increased to make up for the shortfall caused by said siphoning.

Yeah I thought it was pretty obvious.Let me be more obvious though since I like to help people out.

Villager: "What good is this dam anyway, it has like 50 holes. The water keeps emptying out, and at this moment, it's completely dry and has been for years. We should tear it down and get a new one."

Some random other villager: "Are you kidding? This is how dam's work. They corral the water into one place so we can use it."

Villager: "Uh... ok.."

"I think he is asking what good revenue is if it is going to be siphoned off anyway and taxation is increased to make up for the shortfall caused by said siphoning"

Huh? Revenue is what pays the bills. It's always good.

In IL spending has clearly been independent of revenue for the last 50 years so I'm not sure what you mean.

"Yeah I thought it was pretty obvious.Let me be more obvious though since I like to help people out."

Yes, it's obviously wrong, like I said.

When you do some reading, come on back and we can talk.

"Yeah I thought it was pretty obvious.Let me be more obvious though since I like to help people out.

Villager: "What good is this dam anyway, it has like 50 holes. The water keeps emptying out, and at this moment, it's completely dry and has been for years. We should tear it down and get a new one."

Some random other villager: "Are you kidding? This is how dam's work. They corral the water into one place so we can use it."

And Goran's answer is that he doesn't need water at all.

joeyjojojunior says

Yes, it's obviously wrong, like I said.

No it's not.

Illinois not having a budget and having a pension crisis is simply a symptom of the main problem which is Chicago is full of special interest groups and politicians (primarily Democrat) who are bankrupting the state.

joeyjojojunior says

And Goran's answer is that he doesn't need water at all.

No, Goran says we need a new dam so the water isn't always draining away. In fact I literally said it in the post you quoted.

"No it's not. Illinois not having a budget and having a pension crisis is simply a symptom of the main problem which is Chicago is full of special interest groups and politicians (primarily Democrat) who are bankrupting the state."

Of course it is. This is a much different statement than you made earlier and one that, at least, can potentially be supported. Too bad you couldn't have simply stated it about 20 posts ago.

I still disagree but it's not hopelessly idiotic like your statement "who cares about revenue"

"No, Goran says we need a new dam so the water isn't always draining away. In fact I literally said it in the post you quoted. "

Nope, per your analogy, you saying "who cares about revenue" would be saying--"who cares about water".

joeyjojojunior says

Nope, per your analogy, you saying "who cares about revenue" would be saying--"who cares about water".

Yes, when the dam is broken and the reservoir is dry.

joeyjojojunior says

I still disagree

You disagree that Democrats have totally wrecked and destroyed the fiscal health of Illinois? The party that has owned the Illionis State Assembly and Senate for the past 15 years?

Why?

"Yes, when the dam is broken and the reservoir is dry."

I'm sure you'll feel the same way when you die of thirst.

Me-I'll be happy that we keep refreshing the reservoir even if the dam is leaky.

"You disagree that Democrats have totally wrecked and destroyed the fiscal health of Illinois? The party that has owned the Illionis State Assembly and Senate for the past 15 years? Why?"

First off--this problem started much earlier than 15 years ago. Second---like I said, Republicans were in the Governor's Mansion for a lot of that time and fixed nothing. How's Rauner doing?

joeyjojojunior says

First off--this problem started much earlier than 15 years ago. Second---like I said, Republicans were in the Governor's Mansion for a lot of that time and fixed nothing.

Governor can't do much if the assembly and senate are controlled by opposition parties.

Regardless you claim things started going down hill more than 15 years ago. What happened?

IHL is bankrupt! Losers!

Thanks a lot, Liberals!

This bodes well for Republicans, all we need to do is pray and have faith in the Lord, and the Republicans will fix this mess. Get all the faggots out of here, they are ruining the country!

Host killing parasites. California down the road. The new aristocracy in Cali are the civil servants leeching off the backs of the taxpayers.

Ceffer says

Host killing parasites. California down the road. The new aristocracy in Cali are the civil servants leeching off the backs of the taxpayers

I think in the other thread they had a deputy sheriff in Riverside making 500k+ in salary-without including benefits!!

Funny the other state going bankrupt is the one run into the ground by Republicans

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/07/28/kansas-bankrupt-republicans-lying-tax-cutting-reason.html

joeyjojojunior says

Funny the other state going bankrupt is the one run into the ground by Republicans

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/07/28/kansas-bankrupt-republicans-lying-tax-cutting-reason.html

That's the fakest news site in all of the universe.

So how about explaining what happened 15+ years ago in Illinois when you 'claimed' things started going down hill?

"That's the fakest news site in all of the universe."

OK great--why don't you detail where they are wrong and what's "fake"?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-bad-is-the-crisis-in-illinois-it-has-14-6-billion-in-unpaid-bills-1498590946

SPRINGFIELD, Ill.—This is what happens when a major American state lets its bills stack up for two years.

Hospitals, doctors and dentists don’t get paid for hundreds of millions of dollars of patient care. Social-service agencies help fewer people. Public universities and the towns that surround them suffer. The state’s bond rating falls to near junk status. People move out.

A standoff in Illinois between Republican Governor Bruce Rauner and Democratic Speaker of the House Michael Madigan over spending and term limits has left Illinois without a budget for two years. State workers and some others are still getting paid because of court orders and other stopgap measures, but bills for many others are piling up.

The unpaid backlog is now $14.6 billion and growing. Illinois is even late paying its utilities bills to Springfield, its own capital city. On July 1, the beginning of the next fiscal year, billions of dollars in road projects are scheduled to grind to a halt.

“Right now, our state is in real crisis,” said Gov. Rauner last week, on the eve of a special legislative session where lawmakers are trying to hammer out an agreement before the state enters its third budgetless year.

Susana Mendoza, the state’s Democratic comptroller, is in charge of doling out limited funds to organizations demanding payment—a job she likens to handing out crumbs to starving children. She predicted unpaid bills will soon top $16 billion. “It is almost hard to say those numbers out loud because they seem so insane, but that’s where we are right now,” she says.

Any solution to the state’s dismal finances will need a three-fifths legislative majority to pass. Looming behind the fiscal train wreck are an estimated $250 billion in unfunded pension liabilities, the worst in the nation, according to Moody’s Investors Service. S&P Global Ratings has warned that it could lower the state’s rating to junk as early as this week if it doesn’t pass a budget.

In the Quad Cities, a metro area that spans the Mississippi and encompasses both Illinois and Iowa, population on the Illinois side has decreased by 2.5% between 2010 and 2015. Cities on the Iowa side have grown 3.7%.

Among those who have crossed the river is Kelly Daniels, an English professor at Augustana College in Rock Island, Ill.

Mr. Daniels bought a home in Rock Island a decade ago, in part because of an incentive that helped cover part of his down payment. Now married with a young child, Mr. Daniels was looking for a larger house when he decided to move. He was tempted by lower property taxes and what he saw as Iowa’s relatively brighter prospects, compared with Illinois’s dysfunction.

I always thought California would get to this point first, but congratulations to Illinois for demonstrating that public Service Unions, corrupt politicians who need them to get re-elected, and Socialism are a potent combination for disaster. You can only kick the fiscal policy can down the road for so long before reality strikes. Oh, and need I add, this is where former President Obama learned his particular brand of leadership.

The progressive/socialist/liberal style of government on display in Venezuela, Puerto Rico and Illinois. Isn't it wonderful. Now they all want to be bailed out a usual. Time to "just say no".

On the positive side, home prices in the North Shore Chicago suburb of Waukegan are now very reasonable. Many are less than $100K. The negative is that business signs are now only in Spanish.

Change the constitution and eliminate pension obligations for public employees. Establish 401k's for all public employees. The State should make periodic payments to partially offset the elimination of pensions. Employees, as in the private sector, will have to fund their 401k's as well. The State will never be able to honor current pension obligations. Unfortunately, Democrats are beholden to unions and thus the private sector must suffer.

zzyzzx says

I always thought California would get to this point first, but congratulations to Illinois for demonstrating that public Service Unions, corrupt politicians who need them to get re-elected, and Socialism are a potent combination for disaster. You can only kick the fiscal policy can down the road for so long before reality strikes. Oh, and need I add, this is where former President Obama learned his particular brand of leadership.

California is not far behind. Gavin Newsom is more of a spend and tax Democrat than Moonbeam. California is going to be fucked.

zzyzzx says

The progressive/socialist/liberal style of government on display in Venezuela, Puerto Rico and Illinois. Isn't it wonderful. Now they all want to be bailed out a usual. Time to "just say no".

On the positive side, home prices in the North Shore Chicago suburb of Waukegan are now very reasonable. Many are less than $100K. The negative is that business signs are now only in Spanish.

Change the constitution and eliminate pension obligations for public employees. Establish 401k's for all public employees. The State should make periodic payments to partially offset the elimination of pensions. Employees, as in the private sector, will have to fund their 401k's as well. The State will never be able to honor current pension obligations. Unfortunately, Democrats are beholden to unions and thus the private sector must suffer.

Very offensive comrade!

You can only suck a state dry for so long. Perhaps 150K pensions for sub-par state employees wasn't the best move.

I have a great Illinois budget plan: cut funding for nonessential liberal arts programs from UI campuses, cut welfare and entitlements, cut all pensions down to under 50k a year, and fire all of the incompetent clowns who got us into this mess, starting with yourself. Maybe then this state will have enough money to pave the roads and keep the lights on again.

Hahahahah Illinois is literally Venezuela.

Illinois is what happens when a state is completely ruled by Democrats.

You know what happens to incompetent businesses? They fail. You know what happens to incompetent government agencies? They get more funding.

"Illinois is what happens when a state is completely ruled by Democrats."

It's funny that you keep saying that. IL has been run by Republican Governors more often than not.

Both parties are to blame for this mess.

Liberals always run out of other people's money. Yet they always want to repeat that mistake.

joeyjojojunior says

It's funny that you keep saying that. IL has been run by Republican Governors more often than not.

Both parties are to blame for this mess.

For a long time a solid dem majority in the house. if the constitution says no pension cuts, then amend the constitution. I think IL has the most amount of govt workers with so many jurisdictions having their own admin structure and more pensions. Before you even think of a bailout, cut all the fat.
Walker has done good in WI and in MI, they eliminated pensions for new state govt jobs. Neighboring Indiana has I think 1% cap on property taxes-they seem to be doing good.

Oh great, now you have high income taxes, highest property taxes in the nation and absolutely nothing to curtail pensions. If Trump passes his plan and the high state and property taxes are not deductible, me thinks me buy me some WI and IN border investment proeprties. There will be a flood that will leave this wretched state.

anonymous says

If the news reports are correct, I am sure I heard them say this evening the personal income tax would be 5% after this is resolved.

You should only have one. CA has high state taxes, but 1% proeprty tax on the price of purchase. personally I am fine with income taxes being higher-because if you los eyour job/business/income-you pay nothing.

Property taxes on the other hand-if you lose your job, you are stuck paying 10-12k on a 300k house and the year after it could jump to 15k. Where are you going to scrape for that-when you don't have a job?

In the case of iL-both are high-proeprty taxes are now highest in the nation and state taxes are getting high-did the pension folks give up a cent????

They'll get an emergency bailout and kick the can down the road for another year...Nothing to see here.

lostand confused says

Oh great, now you have high income taxes, highest property taxes in the nation and absolutely nothing to curtail pensions. If Trump passes his plan and the high state and property taxes are not deductible, me thinks me buy me some WI and IN border investment proeprties. There will be a flood that will leave this wretched state.

Yes, a flood of people leaving the miserable state who have to pay all the taxes. What about the swamp of losers who need more money? Hello more taxes.

Interesting to see how the legislature had to override the governor on this one.

The Illinois economy, if it wasn't bad already, is about to get a lot worse. This is how Democrats hollow out the economy of a state.

Democrats offer valuable and generous entitlements like lifetime pensions which are extremely expensive, then increase taxes to pay for it all, which increases the individual tax burden, which in turn causes people and companies to flee, which makes the overall economy (pie) smaller, which in turn makes the original problem even worse.

Democrats keep diving pie so thinly that no one gets any pie. Fine example of liberal economic policies.