patrick.net

Newbie123 says

Bitcoin is barely in the first inning. This bull cycle will be epic.

Do you consider bitcoin an asset or a currency?

Newbie123 says

In 2019 bitcoin has been the best performing asset class. You said there are better ones out there. Any backup? .... Thought so.

What are you talking about? Are you investing or trading? From the start of 2018 until now I could find thousands of stocks that outperformed your precious bitty. Are you being serious?

If you're talking short term, you're trading it and it's not an investment. You claim it's going to 50k with no supporting evidence. You do understand why everyone here would think you're just a pump and dumper, right?

While the politics here can go sideways, there's actually some smart people here that have made good picks and have given reasons why. You can say 50k as much as you want, doesn't mean it will happen. I do wish you luck, just know you're "investing" in Big Foot.

Newbie123 says

That’s what I thought. Because there isn’t a better performing asset class in 2019 than bitcoin:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.coincodex.com/article/3641/bitcoin-is-the-best-performing-asset-class-of-2019/

Cool. Seems like a neutral source that would totally investigate all other asset classes. I'm sure they don't get any revenue from the fact bitcoin exists. Is this a fucking joke?

In my opinion it is a giant pyramid scheme that shouldn't be legal. Will not touch any made up currency backed by nothing. Even Warren Buffet stated that it's worth nothing due to no backing.

I never expected this thing to balloon, I don't know why it has ballooned to whatever it did. But I am 100%, in my own mind, confident that it will eventually crash and god help those who are holding the empty bag.

FortWayneIndiana says

In my opinion it is a giant pyramid scheme that shouldn't be legal. Will not touch any made up currency backed by nothing. Even Warren Buffet stated that it's worth nothing due to no backing.

I never expected this thing to balloon, I don't know why it has ballooned to whatever it did. But I am 100%, in my own mind, confident that it will eventually crash and god help those who are holding the empty bag.

Look at the chart: it already followed a classic bubble pattern to a t TWICE.

Newbie123 says

What would you do if it hits 100k per coin?

Shrug my shoulders and marvel at human stupidity.

Not care at all, or pity that idiot who put in 100k so that someone else could take it.

Newbie123 says

What would you do if it hits 100k per coin?

FortWayneIndiana says

pity that idiot who put in 100k

Bitcoin, like every ponzi scheme, requires ever greater fools to buy in so that the early adopters may profit.

Bitcoin is backed by nothing. There is no thing that you could hold in your hands. It is not an asset and it is a poor currency. It is virtually nothing but zeros and ones held on multiple storage devices.
Blockchain does have uses but "big daddy" bitcoin is nothing but a speculative gamble as the smarter players of btc on this forum have readily admitted.

Are there any other programmers on here that thinks bitcoin is an asset or a useful currency? Because that is what it is advertised as.

No one has answered the question:
Onvacation says

Can you tell me why a string of zeros and ones has any intrinsic value?

Onvacation says

Bitcoin, like every ponzi scheme, requires ever greater fools to buy in so that the early adopters may profit.

Hence all this FOMO-stoking droning of all the fanboi starting once the memory of the last crash is somewhat faded and the shit perks up a bit again.

Newbie123 says

You said there are others that performed better. We are still waiting. :)

You understand real estate is an asset class, right? There's probably 20,000 investors in California (and 100k country wide) that have flipped homes they bought in December of 2018 and are just closing now that have made 3-5x their money. Again, is this a joke? Bitcoin is far, far away from being the best performing asset class in 2019. This for sure is a bit at this point.

Newbie123 says

Yep, RE is included on the graph/comparison.

Comparison-shmaparison.... SHOW US YOUR FUCKING BITCOIN TRADES!

Newbie123 says

I knew you had to make something up and wouldn’t provide any backup/link.

Have fun with the bit. And yes there are probably easily 100,000 people worldwide, since the start of the year that have made 3-5x on a flip. I don't promote flipping, but you're naive to think bitcoin is doing better than other assets on a per capita basis. There are not 100k people that have had 3-5x return since the start of the year and if they bought at the beginning of 2018 they're broke likely. Unlike you I don't trust realtor.com for my real estate news like you do with your crypto crap.

And for fucks sake, Apple or Google could mine the rest of bitcoin in two weeks if they really wanted with their infrastructure. It would be more profitable than what they're doing now if it's going to 50k. Why has no big company done this? They're not stupid, that's why.

From the other thread, just show us any sale you've made with bitcoin. You certainly have sold some or at least made a transaction with it to show us you actually hold bitcoin.

Jesus. I'm done. For now...

WookieMan says

And for fucks sake, Apple or Google could mine the rest of bitcoin in two weeks if they really wanted with their infrastructure.

Why can't I access by favorite cat video Youtuber? The algorithm has determined that bitcoin mining is now more profitable than a MeowMix ad. Wait a minute... okay, we now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Newbie123 says

Nice

https://www.coindesk.com/reuters-bloomberg-and-tradingview-to-add-new-cryptocurrency-index

Reuters and Bloomberg are adding a crypto index. Main stream media is adopting crypto more and more.

Quoting an index takes little effort, and exactly zero risk.

When legit exchanges list crypto futures, then we've made it

Newbie123 says

Nice

https://www.coindesk.com/reuters-bloomberg-and-tradingview-to-add-new-cryptocurrency-index

Reuters and Bloomberg are adding a crypto index. Main stream media is adopting crypto more and more.

One of the main reasons crypto exists is in spite of the main stream media, banks, government, etc. That was much of the point of its creation. Be careful what you wish for.

Also, why not link to those two media organizations and their reports on it? You consistently link to www.coin(somthing).com. Why is that?

I expect no answer and cannot believe I'm wasting my time, but I'm bored.

WookieMan says

One of the main reasons crypto exists is in spite of the main stream media, banks, government, etc.

Thats why crypto is valued in "fiat".

The current reality of crypto is not as a currency but as a speculative gamble. The HODL crowd will be sitting on crypto even as it aproaches zero. They will call it a buying opportunity.

Somebody has to be the last greatest fool!

Newbie123 says

bitcoin is the same as tulips.

Tulips are beautiful. You can wipe your butt with stocks bonds and cash.

Crypto is nothing but 0s and 1s on computers.

This is someones bitcoin wallet key.

EA2FEBC5BAC0D13E7AC0EAC1EB8C0AFE

How much food can you buy with it after a solar flare?

Newbie123 says

Folks, calls have been made. I called 50k (100k secretly ;)

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Economic Policy
Bitcoin isn’t the future of money — it’s either a Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme
By Matt O'Brien June 8, 2015

(Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether Bitcoin is more like Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme.

Whatever it is, though, it isn't a currency. It's a tech stock. Each Bitcoin is really a share in a system that seems to make it cheaper to transfer things online—money, stocks, bonds, even the deed to your house—by cutting out the middleman. Well, kind of. Bitcoin doesn't remove the middleman so much as replace him with middlemen who don't make you pay much, but make society as a whole do so instead. Is this progress?

It's supposed to be. Ever since the early days of the Internet, people have been trying to figure out how to transfer money online without having to go through the financial system. The problem, though, is if I send you money, how do you know I haven't already spent it or sent it to somebody else? You don't. So the only solution has been to have a trusted third-party, like a bank, sit in between us. I send the money to the bank, it verifies that I actually have this money to send, and then it sends it on to you, all for a 2 percent fee, of course.

Keep Reading


Bitcoin's breakthrough is to have a decentralized network of "miners" sit in between us instead. Now, remember, these miners are trying to win new Bitcoins by solving computationally-taxing math problems. The clever part, though, is that in the process of doing so, they also create a public ledger of every single Bitcoin transaction, what's called the blockchain. That includes every Bitcoin that's ever been won, every Bitcoin that's ever been used, and every Bitcoin that's ever been transferred. So now we don't need a bank to know that I have the money I'm sending to you, and that I'm only sending it to you. The miners confirm all this. And the best part is that instead of having to pay the bank myself to do this, the system pays the miners in new Bitcoins.

The question, though, is how you get people to mine Bitcoin to begin with. Sure, you can tell them that Bitcoin is digital money they can use to buy things online, but they already have money they can already use to buy things online. And while merchants would be more than happy to save the 2.5 percent they pay in credit card transaction fees, customers are a lot more more blasé since they don't pay them directly. The answer, then, was to do what makes anything popular: make it exclusive. Specifically, Bitcoin limits the total number of coins that will ever be created to 21 million. Now, for Bitcoin's first year and a half, as Nathaniel Popper documents in his page-turning history Digital Gold, there were still only a handful of people, if that, mining it. But that began to change when libertarians, who were convinced, just convinced, that the Federal Reserve's money-printing would mean the doom of the dollar, discovered Bitcoin and its non-inflatable money supply. A boom was born.

But what made people mine Bitcoins is what has kept from spending Bitcoins. Think about it like this. Bitcoin's finite supply means that its price should go up, and keep going up. So if you have dollars that are losing a little value to inflation every year and Bitcoins that are gaining it, which one are you going to use to buy things with? The question answers itself, and it raises another. Why would this ever change? Unless you can't buy something online with dollars—like drugs—you'd always want to use your dollars instead. Buying things with Bitcoin would be like cashing out your Apple stock in 1978 to go grocery shopping even though you have plenty of actual cash lying around.


"The catch-22 is people buy Bitcoins because they think the price will go to infinity and beyond once everybody uses them, but they don't spend their own Bitcoins because they think the price will go to infinity and beyond once everybody else uses them. And so nobody uses them. But if nobody uses them, then the price will stay stuck at something a lot less than infinity let alone beyond. So the Bitcoin faithful have tried to not only convert people, but also convince them to martyr themselves, financially-speaking, for the crypto cause. It goes something like this. Hey, do you want to hear about the future? It's a digital currency called Bitcoin that lets you spend or move your money online without paying any fees. Sounds great. How does it do that? Well, Bitcoin saves you money by making transactions irreversible. So ... if I get scammed, I got scammed? There's nothing I can do about it? Yes. Okay, but is it at least easy to use? The thing is, I don't actually use it. I just hoard it. I'm waiting for some greater fools to push up the price by using theirs. Oh. Yeah. So you should buy some Bitcoins and use yours. I'll get back to you on that."

Newbie123 says

Nobody tries to convince the retail market to buy crypto or bitcoin.

100% false. This is 100% the premise of bitcoin or any crypto. It was made for the "common person" to avoid banks & all the shit that goes along with that. The issue is any person or company can create a crypto "currency" out of thin air. If they can market it and get people to trade it, they take all your money. There's an infinite amount of "coins" that can be created. There will never be enough capital diverted to a non-producing "asset" class like crypto. Layer on all the other issues and it really is staggering you keep posting.

I'm being serious when I say I hope you don't lose money, but crypto is 100% a pump and dump scam manipulated by people holding large amounts. Don't get caught holding the bag when the floor drops out. You can post your silly videos and nonsensical rebuttals, but you've not countered anything that's been presented to you. Trade it all you want and make money, dead serious, just know it will go away at some point.

I watch a lot of financial news and channels, like RealVision. Seems a lot of very rich people are starting to get nervous lately and are going into gold and silver. Silver coins for daily spending, gold for wealth preservation. Hard to use a 13K lump of gold to buy a sandwich. I have yet to see any wanting for crypto.

A lot of millennials at the tech company I work for are way into crypto though. Few want to learn about other investment strategies when we are talking smack at lunch.

Newbie123 says

It’s scarcity and the demand for it

There is no scarcity. Are you joking? Anyone can create a crypto "currency," anytime. In the grand scheme of time, bitcoin is nothing at ten years old. It will be nothing in 10 years from now. If you made some money up to this point, awesome, seriously. Don't be left holding the bag though.

Newbie123 says

Ever noticed how bitcoin has never had to spend money on advertisement?

That would be silly, who would spend US dollars on advertising the best thing since sliced bread? lol. You ever wonder why there's a reason there's no advertisement and it's people like you posting on internet forums, FB and other social media? But then you post links and videos that are blatant advertisements? You're posting in circles at this point.

just_dregalicious says

A lot of millennials at the tech company I work for are way into crypto though.

Millennials have never had real money.

When I was a kid a quarter was made out of silver. You could buy a soda and a couple of candy bars and still have a dime left over.

After Kennedy was assassinated we traded our silver in for parking tokens. Then Nixon disconnected our dollars from any real backing. Since then inflation has wittled away at our buying power.

Millenials see that saving "fiat" is never going to be profitable. They even have deluded themselves into thinking that crypto is not fiat.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It is not a good currency. It only has value because some fools think that other fools will pay more for it.

Hey @Newbie123

What will bitcoin be valued in when it replaces "fiat"?

WookieMan says

just know it will go away at some point.

*Could go away at some point isn't the same as will. I won't put anything into crypto that I can't afford to lose. Currently about 10% of portfolio mostly in XRP, but I may buy more.

As I've already mentioned, XRP is an infrastructure play as much as a crypto play. I'd also sell it if it 10xed on me, or sell some as it doubles.

Question: is there a better replacement for centralized fiat currencies than cryptos? Do you expect the dollar to remain stable for 20 years?

Onvacation says

Hey @Newbie123

What will bitcoin be valued in when it replaces "fiat"?

What will anything be valued in if the dollar collapses? Probably exchange units like XRP

Newbie123 says

Nobody is trying to change grandma’s or grandpa’s view of money and how to transact it. And some people just have a hard time with change or innovation in general.

I've been on the leading edge of tech and biotech for 20 years and am definitely not a grandpa but I understand what the billionaires are saying with respect to crypto vs. gold and silver. That's because I have what's called wisdom from various types of investments over that time span and memory of what the markets did during those times. That's something the millennials I work with who only seem to understand crypto who have the same stars in their eyes my silicon valley peers did back during the dot coms don't have.

CBOEtrader says

Question: is there a better replacement for centralized fiat currencies than cryptos?

Long term probably not for daily activities. Short term there are so fucking many of them, the security sucks and the software isn't ready for prime time. I think it's day will come though. Right now it's still a pain in the ass to use and is only good for speculation.

I guess, there is also the energy costs to consider for block chain in general as well... Also what kind of an affect an EMP might have on cryptos and a potential future where a government (shit these days even Leftist companies) might be able to control e-transactions by one means or another that they can't with physical currencies. Like cocaine, gold, etc.

I think there is a reason China, Russia, India, etc., are hording gold these days instead of crypto haha..

CBOEtrader says

Onvacation says

Hey @Newbie123

What will bitcoin be valued in when it replaces "fiat"?

What will anything be valued in if the dollar collapses? Probably exchange units like XRP

I did not say collapses. I said replaces.

That is the big crypto idea; decentralization. Instead of the central banks controlling the worlds currency it will be controlled by a decentralized digital gold. CRYPTOCURRENCY has value because the owners say so.

Bullets, real estate, stocks, bonds, jewelry, art, and guns have intrinsic value, they're real.

All refined metals including silver and gold have intrinsic value. They take manpower to create and they can be used to make beautiful and useful THINGS.

Even the fiat federal reserve notes can be traded for, anything. A paper dollar represents the systems ability and willingness to anihilate anything in its way.

Cryptocurrency is NOTHING. Literally 0s and 1s on a fancy flash drive.

The scam is where you have to buy in with "fiat" to get paid off, someday, in fiat.

Onvacation says

Instead of the central banks controlling the worlds currency it will be controlled by a decentralized digital gold.

See this I'm not so sure is really going to pan out long term. Powers that be et al. There will probably eventually be some sort of 'blessed' crypto if it ever goes mainstream. At that point it doesn't even need to be crypto so it saves energy. Just some number of 'units' on the block chain.

"But there is only a limited number of Bitcoin so it can't be devalued like fiat!"

Yeah, but an unlimited number of crypto-currencies...

Onvacation says

Bullets

Bullets are the best physical commodity. True

Onvacation says

All refined metals including silver and gold have intrinsic value. They take manpower to create and they can be used to make beautiful and useful THINGS.

Yup, and that intrinsic value would be stretched 50000 times over if gold backed transactions, making it effectively just as fiat as cryptos with far more limitations.

If it is discovered that gold can be used to power starships or cure cancer, I'd consider it. Even then I'd rather buy the company than gold.

I'm unimpressed by pretty things

Newbie123 says

Happy Father’s Day! And bitcoin holding above 9k :)

Wake me when it gets near to it's previous high of 19K (hint: it won't)...

CBOEtrader says

would be stretched 50000 times over if gold backed transactions, making it effectively just as fiat as cryptos with far more limitations.

Good point.

I think gold and silver are only better in a shit hits the fan type of situation. Speaking of which:

Notice to Californians to load up on ammo before July 1st. You can still get it after that but it'll be quite a bit more painful.

Walmart only had 115 grain 9mm today. It was a madhouse.

Newbie123 says

Happy Father’s Day! And bitcoin holding above 9k :)

... and you are still holding none if it.

Newbie123 says

Facebook should have visited this blog before working on a cryptocurrency. Very smart people here could have told FB that a cryptocurrency is just 0’s and 1’s,

From your linked article:

"invite people to pay directly for goods and services within the app using Libra[ Facebook's proposed crypto]. In doing so, Facebook would be able to glean new data about its users’ shopping behaviors—and how to better target them—potentially generating more revenue through advertising."

People that trust Facebook deserve to get their "wallet" picked. Zuck wants in on this scam.

What are the advantages of crypto? How can users be anonymous AND have a record of all transactions? Is there really an advantage using crypto vs credit card for online transactions and if so what?

@Newbie123 I know you don't answer questions.

As a software engineer I have a good understanding of how blockchain works. Moore's law and good hackers will always overcome algorithms, no matter how seemingly bullet proof.


Newbie123 says

tulips are better

Tulip mania and cryptocraziness are similiar in that people weren't investing on intrinsic value but on future gains once some bigger fool paid more in the hopes that some bigger fool would pay more... Don't be the biggest fool.

Newbie123 says

crypto is just a scam/ ponzi and that it will go to zero

Probably not zero, beanie babys still have some value. ...

Onvacation says

Newbie123 says

Facebook should have visited this blog before working on a cryptocurrency. Very smart people here could have told FB that a cryptocurrency is just 0’s and 1’s,

From your linked article:

"invite people to pay directly for goods and services within the app using Libra[ Facebook's proposed crypto]. In doing so, Facebook would be able to glean new data about its users’ shopping behaviors—and how to better target them—potentially generating more revenue through advertising."

People that trust Facebook deserve to get their "wallet" picked. Zuck wants in on this scam.

What are the advantages of crypto? How can users be anonymous AND have a record of all transactions? Is there really an advantage using crypto vs credit card for online transactions and if so what?

@Newbie123 I know you don't answer questions.

As a software engineer I have a good understa...

Also Libra will be competition to bitcoin. I don't want to weigh in on mania vs. to the moon I believe crypto is here to stay but it's already being coopted from the likes of Libra with sinister interests and it's impossible to assign it an intrinsic value, so for me it's a trading vehicle rather than a store of value.

Newbie123 says

Weird.... Facebook should have visited this blog before working on a cryptocurrency. Very smart people here could have told FB that a cryptocurrency is just 0’s and 1’s, that tulips are better and that crypto is just a scam/ ponzi and that it will go to zero.

Weird... smart people know how to make shitloads of money off you from data you supply for free. Your email, likes and photos of your cats. Now they're just going to TAKE your money AND your data for free and this is a win for bitcoin and crypto somehow? This is a big loser for bitty if it takes off, you know that, right? I won't name call, but I'll say your logic is not very sound.