« prev   random   next »

9
21

Bitcoin and Crypto-currency

By BayArea following x   2017 Nov 5, 3:36pm 42,465 views   371 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


#investing

Hi guys,

I'd like to start a conversation on crypto-currency, particularly Bitcoin.

What do you all think about it from an investment point of view today? I have some buddies in the finance world who are quite bullish on it and claim we are just scratching the surface. Judging by the recent performance, they may be right.

For people who are investing in Bitcoin, what are you using to invest and what recommendations do you have for a new investor?

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

I read this week that over 100,000 merchants in the USA are accepting Bitcoin today.

At the same time, digital currency does scare me a bit as it seems so abstract. Curious what PatNet thinks.

Thanks guys!

« First    « Previous    Comments 332 - 371 of 371    Last »

332   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 3, 6:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
I knew you had to make something up and wouldn’t provide any backup/link.


Have fun with the bit. And yes there are probably easily 100,000 people worldwide, since the start of the year that have made 3-5x on a flip. I don't promote flipping, but you're naive to think bitcoin is doing better than other assets on a per capita basis. There are not 100k people that have had 3-5x return since the start of the year and if they bought at the beginning of 2018 they're broke likely. Unlike you I don't trust realtor.com for my real estate news like you do with your crypto crap.

And for fucks sake, Apple or Google could mine the rest of bitcoin in two weeks if they really wanted with their infrastructure. It would be more profitable than what they're doing now if it's going to 50k. Why has no big company done this? They're not stupid, that's why.

From the other thread, just show us any sale you've made with bitcoin. You certainly have sold some or at least made a transaction with it to show us you actually hold bitcoin.
333   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 3, 6:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I do understand that if you don’t have investment money on the side or if you feel like you are buying in too late that this may cause some tension. Especially if the price keep going up (Fomo).

A good start might be to buy satoshis (fraction of a bitcoin).

334   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 3, 7:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Jesus. I'm done. For now...
335   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 4, 10:54am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

We are finally seeing a pullback. After parabolic run-ups you need to see a healthy retracement. And then a bounce back on the support lines. I Have some buy orders set up in the 6-7k range and for my ALT’s as well. We might get a nice buying opportunity before we shoot up again.
336   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 6, 1:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The gold bugs are not going to like this one

337   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 12, 1:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Even Homer likes Bitcoin

338   EBGuy   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 12, 2:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
And for fucks sake, Apple or Google could mine the rest of bitcoin in two weeks if they really wanted with their infrastructure.

Why can't I access by favorite cat video Youtuber? The algorithm has determined that bitcoin mining is now more profitable than a MeowMix ad. Wait a minute... okay, we now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
339   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 13, 8:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Nice

https://www.coindesk.com/reuters-bloomberg-and-tradingview-to-add-new-cryptocurrency-index

Reuters and Bloomberg are adding a crypto index. Main stream media is adopting crypto more and more.
340   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2019 Jun 13, 8:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Nice

https://www.coindesk.com/reuters-bloomberg-and-tradingview-to-add-new-cryptocurrency-index

Reuters and Bloomberg are adding a crypto index. Main stream media is adopting crypto more and more.


Quoting an index takes little effort, and exactly zero risk.

When legit exchanges list crypto futures, then we've made it
341   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 13, 9:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Nice

https://www.coindesk.com/reuters-bloomberg-and-tradingview-to-add-new-cryptocurrency-index

Reuters and Bloomberg are adding a crypto index. Main stream media is adopting crypto more and more.


One of the main reasons crypto exists is in spite of the main stream media, banks, government, etc. That was much of the point of its creation. Be careful what you wish for.

Also, why not link to those two media organizations and their reports on it? You consistently link to www.coin(somthing).com. Why is that?

I expect no answer and cannot believe I'm wasting my time, but I'm bored.
342   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 13, 9:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Even better, Robinhood is offering cryptos. Also fidelity is opening an exchange for institutional crypto buyers.

The bitcoin haters don’t like when mainstream media adopts crypto indexes or report anything bitcoin related. It doesn’t support their narrative that bitcoin is the same as tulips.
343   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jun 14, 7:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says

One of the main reasons crypto exists is in spite of the main stream media, banks, government, etc.

Thats why crypto is valued in "fiat".

The current reality of crypto is not as a currency but as a speculative gamble. The HODL crowd will be sitting on crypto even as it aproaches zero. They will call it a buying opportunity.

Somebody has to be the last greatest fool!
344   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jun 14, 7:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
bitcoin is the same as tulips.

Tulips are beautiful. You can wipe your butt with stocks bonds and cash.

Crypto is nothing but 0s and 1s on computers.
345   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jun 14, 8:04am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

This is someones bitcoin wallet key.

EA2FEBC5BAC0D13E7AC0EAC1EB8C0AFE

How much food can you buy with it after a solar flare?
346   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 14, 8:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

“Approaches zero” rofl. This is too good. Going to zero! Any day now, right?

“Scam! Tulips! Greater fool! Approaches zero! Ponzi!”

Folks, calls have been made. I called 50k (100k secretly ;) ), the other guy said “approaches zero”.

While we are waiting, I keep finding more bitcoin songs

347   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jun 14, 12:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Folks, calls have been made. I called 50k (100k secretly ;)


Democracy Dies in Darkness
Try 1 month for $1
Sign In
Newsletters & alerts
Gift subscriptions
Contact us
Help desk
Economic Policy
Bitcoin isn’t the future of money — it’s either a Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme
By Matt O'Brien June 8, 2015

(Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether Bitcoin is more like Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme.

Whatever it is, though, it isn't a currency. It's a tech stock. Each Bitcoin is really a share in a system that seems to make it cheaper to transfer things online—money, stocks, bonds, even the deed to your house—by cutting out the middleman. Well, kind of. Bitcoin doesn't remove the middleman so much as replace him with middlemen who don't make you pay much, but make society as a whole do so instead. Is this progress?

It's supposed to be. Ever since the early days of the Internet, people have been trying to figure out how to transfer money online without having to go through the financial system. The problem, though, is if I send you money, how do you know I haven't already spent it or sent it to somebody else? You don't. So the only solution has been to have a trusted third-party, like a bank, sit in between us. I send the money to the bank, it verifies that I actually have this money to send, and then it sends it on to you, all for a 2 percent fee, of course.

Keep Reading


Bitcoin's breakthrough is to have a decentralized network of "miners" sit in between us instead. Now, remember, these miners are trying to win new Bitcoins by solving computationally-taxing math problems. The clever part, though, is that in the process of doing so, they also create a public ledger of every single Bitcoin transaction, what's called the blockchain. That includes every Bitcoin that's ever been won, every Bitcoin that's ever been used, and every Bitcoin that's ever been transferred. So now we don't need a bank to know that I have the money I'm sending to you, and that I'm only sending it to you. The miners confirm all this. And the best part is that instead of having to pay the bank myself to do this, the system pays the miners in new Bitcoins.

The question, though, is how you get people to mine Bitcoin to begin with. Sure, you can tell them that Bitcoin is digital money they can use to buy things online, but they already have money they can already use to buy things online. And while merchants would be more than happy to save the 2.5 percent they pay in credit card transaction fees, customers are a lot more more blasé since they don't pay them directly. The answer, then, was to do what makes anything popular: make it exclusive. Specifically, Bitcoin limits the total number of coins that will ever be created to 21 million. Now, for Bitcoin's first year and a half, as Nathaniel Popper documents in his page-turning history Digital Gold, there were still only a handful of people, if that, mining it. But that began to change when libertarians, who were convinced, just convinced, that the Federal Reserve's money-printing would mean the doom of the dollar, discovered Bitcoin and its non-inflatable money supply. A boom was born.

But what made people mine Bitcoins is what has kept from spending Bitcoins. Think about it like this. Bitcoin's finite supply means that its price should go up, and keep going up. So if you have dollars that are losing a little value to inflation every year and Bitcoins that are gaining it, which one are you going to use to buy things with? The question answers itself, and it raises another. Why would this ever change? Unless you can't buy something online with dollars—like drugs—you'd always want to use your dollars instead. Buying things with Bitcoin would be like cashing out your Apple stock in 1978 to go grocery shopping even though you have plenty of actual cash lying around.


"The catch-22 is people buy Bitcoins because they think the price will go to infinity and beyond once everybody uses them, but they don't spend their own Bitcoins because they think the price will go to infinity and beyond once everybody else uses them. And so nobody uses them. But if nobody uses them, then the price will stay stuck at something a lot less than infinity let alone beyond. So the Bitcoin faithful have tried to not only convert people, but also convince them to martyr themselves, financially-speaking, for the crypto cause. It goes something like this. Hey, do you want to hear about the future? It's a digital currency called Bitcoin that lets you spend or move your money online without paying any fees. Sounds great. How does it do that? Well, Bitcoin saves you money by making transactions irreversible. So ... if I get scammed, I got scammed? There's nothing I can do about it? Yes. Okay, but is it at least easy to use? The thing is, I don't actually use it. I just hoard it. I'm waiting for some greater fools to push up the price by using theirs. Oh. Yeah. So you should buy some Bitcoins and use yours. I'll get back to you on that."
348   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 14, 1:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Nobody tries to convince the retail market to buy crypto or bitcoin. The demand from retail comes naturally when the media reports on price gains or when people tell story’s how they bought a house or a nice car on crypto gains. The jump in prices is often initiated by institutional investors. You can actually see the institutional demand via OTC transaction. (Over the counter trading desks) it’s recorded in the block chain but not handled through exchanges. Crypto is becoming another asset class. You can deny it all you want but it’s coming. If you follow the crypto news a little bit there is no way in missing it. We heard since ten years that crypto is a scam, will go to zero and is a ponzi bla bla bla. Ten years later it’s still up and running and more and more companies build infrastructure to store and/or exchange it. It’s not going away anytime soon. The opposite is probably going to happen. I actually believe we are at the start of another bull market.
349   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 9:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Nobody tries to convince the retail market to buy crypto or bitcoin.


100% false. This is 100% the premise of bitcoin or any crypto. It was made for the "common person" to avoid banks & all the shit that goes along with that. The issue is any person or company can create a crypto "currency" out of thin air. If they can market it and get people to trade it, they take all your money. There's an infinite amount of "coins" that can be created. There will never be enough capital diverted to a non-producing "asset" class like crypto. Layer on all the other issues and it really is staggering you keep posting.

I'm being serious when I say I hope you don't lose money, but crypto is 100% a pump and dump scam manipulated by people holding large amounts. Don't get caught holding the bag when the floor drops out. You can post your silly videos and nonsensical rebuttals, but you've not countered anything that's been presented to you. Trade it all you want and make money, dead serious, just know it will go away at some point.
350   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 10:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Listen to this Bloomberg interview. Isn’t every word like music to your ears?

351   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 10:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ever noticed how bitcoin has never had to spend money on advertisement? Nobody is promoting it or trying to convince anybody. People want to own bitcoin, don’t want to sell and see it as digital gold. It’s not owned by a single entity. It’s fully decentralized. It just needs to exist and perform, which it has for ten years without network interruption! It’s scarcity and the demand for it will push prices to highs you can’t picture yet. You can’t shut down,you can’t ban it. You can’t hack the blockchain. You can’t print more. There will only be a small amount of bitcoins created. It’s probably the best if not one of the best things that humans have created.
352   just_dregalicious   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 11:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I watch a lot of financial news and channels, like RealVision. Seems a lot of very rich people are starting to get nervous lately and are going into gold and silver. Silver coins for daily spending, gold for wealth preservation. Hard to use a 13K lump of gold to buy a sandwich. I have yet to see any wanting for crypto.

A lot of millennials at the tech company I work for are way into crypto though. Few want to learn about other investment strategies when we are talking smack at lunch.
353   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 11:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
It’s scarcity and the demand for it


There is no scarcity. Are you joking? Anyone can create a crypto "currency," anytime. In the grand scheme of time, bitcoin is nothing at ten years old. It will be nothing in 10 years from now. If you made some money up to this point, awesome, seriously. Don't be left holding the bag though.

Newbie123 says
Ever noticed how bitcoin has never had to spend money on advertisement?


That would be silly, who would spend US dollars on advertising the best thing since sliced bread? lol. You ever wonder why there's a reason there's no advertisement and it's people like you posting on internet forums, FB and other social media? But then you post links and videos that are blatant advertisements? You're posting in circles at this point.
354   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jun 15, 11:19am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

just_dregalicious says
A lot of millennials at the tech company I work for are way into crypto though.

Millennials have never had real money.

When I was a kid a quarter was made out of silver. You could buy a soda and a couple of candy bars and still have a dime left over.

After Kennedy was assassinated we traded our silver in for parking tokens. Then Nixon disconnected our dollars from any real backing. Since then inflation has wittled away at our buying power.

Millenials see that saving "fiat" is never going to be profitable. They even have deluded themselves into thinking that crypto is not fiat.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It is not a good currency. It only has value because some fools think that other fools will pay more for it.
355   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 1:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yes, there is def a generational issue at play here. My father in law thinks bitcoin is going to zero. He can email and operate his smart phone but do I expect him to store value on a hardware wallet? Don’t think so. I also work in tech and most of my colleagues are invested in crypto. The younger generations are growing up with crypto as an investment asset just like stocks, gold etc. the older you are the greater the chances you will never own even one bitcoin or any satoshis. That’s totally ok. The world of tomorrow will be digital. Some (usually older) people like writing checks or carrying cash. That will be a thing from the past soon. Nobody is trying to change grandma’s or grandpa’s view of money and how to transact it. And some people just have a hard time with change or innovation in general. It’s fine. There is a place for everyone here. It would also be a bit boring if we wouldn’t have no-coiners, wouldn’t it?
356   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jun 15, 2:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Hey @Newbie123

What will bitcoin be valued in when it replaces "fiat"?
357   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2019 Jun 15, 3:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
just know it will go away at some point.


*Could go away at some point isn't the same as will. I won't put anything into crypto that I can't afford to lose. Currently about 10% of portfolio mostly in XRP, but I may buy more.

As I've already mentioned, XRP is an infrastructure play as much as a crypto play. I'd also sell it if it 10xed on me, or sell some as it doubles.

Question: is there a better replacement for centralized fiat currencies than cryptos? Do you expect the dollar to remain stable for 20 years?
358   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2019 Jun 15, 3:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
Hey @Newbie123

What will bitcoin be valued in when it replaces "fiat"?


What will anything be valued in if the dollar collapses? Probably exchange units like XRP
359   just_dregalicious   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 4:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Nobody is trying to change grandma’s or grandpa’s view of money and how to transact it. And some people just have a hard time with change or innovation in general.


I've been on the leading edge of tech and biotech for 20 years and am definitely not a grandpa but I understand what the billionaires are saying with respect to crypto vs. gold and silver. That's because I have what's called wisdom from various types of investments over that time span and memory of what the markets did during those times. That's something the millennials I work with who only seem to understand crypto who have the same stars in their eyes my silicon valley peers did back during the dot coms don't have.

CBOEtrader says
Question: is there a better replacement for centralized fiat currencies than cryptos?


Long term probably not for daily activities. Short term there are so fucking many of them, the security sucks and the software isn't ready for prime time. I think it's day will come though. Right now it's still a pain in the ass to use and is only good for speculation.
360   just_dregalicious   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 4:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I guess, there is also the energy costs to consider for block chain in general as well... Also what kind of an affect an EMP might have on cryptos and a potential future where a government (shit these days even Leftist companies) might be able to control e-transactions by one means or another that they can't with physical currencies. Like cocaine, gold, etc.

I think there is a reason China, Russia, India, etc., are hording gold these days instead of crypto haha..
361   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jun 15, 4:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
Onvacation says
Hey @Newbie123

What will bitcoin be valued in when it replaces "fiat"?


What will anything be valued in if the dollar collapses? Probably exchange units like XRP


I did not say collapses. I said replaces.

That is the big crypto idea; decentralization. Instead of the central banks controlling the worlds currency it will be controlled by a decentralized digital gold. CRYPTOCURRENCY has value because the owners say so.

Bullets, real estate, stocks, bonds, jewelry, art, and guns have intrinsic value, they're real.

All refined metals including silver and gold have intrinsic value. They take manpower to create and they can be used to make beautiful and useful THINGS.

Even the fiat federal reserve notes can be traded for, anything. A paper dollar represents the systems ability and willingness to anihilate anything in its way.

Cryptocurrency is NOTHING. Literally 0s and 1s on a fancy flash drive.

The scam is where you have to buy in with "fiat" to get paid off, someday, in fiat.
362   just_dregalicious   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 15, 4:19pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
Instead of the central banks controlling the worlds currency it will be controlled by a decentralized digital gold.


See this I'm not so sure is really going to pan out long term. Powers that be et al. There will probably eventually be some sort of 'blessed' crypto if it ever goes mainstream. At that point it doesn't even need to be crypto so it saves energy. Just some number of 'units' on the block chain.

"But there is only a limited number of Bitcoin so it can't be devalued like fiat!"

Yeah, but an unlimited number of crypto-currencies...
363   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 16, 10:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Happy Father’s Day! And bitcoin holding above 9k :)
365   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2019 Jun 16, 2:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
Bullets


Bullets are the best physical commodity. True
366   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2019 Jun 16, 2:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
All refined metals including silver and gold have intrinsic value. They take manpower to create and they can be used to make beautiful and useful THINGS.


Yup, and that intrinsic value would be stretched 50000 times over if gold backed transactions, making it effectively just as fiat as cryptos with far more limitations.

If it is discovered that gold can be used to power starships or cure cancer, I'd consider it. Even then I'd rather buy the company than gold.

I'm unimpressed by pretty things
367   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Jun 16, 2:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Happy Father’s Day! And bitcoin holding above 9k :)


Wake me when it gets near to it's previous high of 19K (hint: it won't)...

368   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 16, 4:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Newbie123 says
Happy Father’s Day! And bitcoin holding above 9k :)


Wake me when it gets near to it's previous high of 19K (hint: it won't)...


Nice! We’ll def post when it hits 10k and 20k
369   just_dregalicious   ignore (0)   2019 Jun 16, 9:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
would be stretched 50000 times over if gold backed transactions, making it effectively just as fiat as cryptos with far more limitations.


Good point.

I think gold and silver are only better in a shit hits the fan type of situation. Speaking of which:

Notice to Californians to load up on ammo before July 1st. You can still get it after that but it'll be quite a bit more painful.

Walmart only had 115 grain 9mm today. It was a madhouse.
370   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (4)   2019 Jun 16, 11:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Happy Father’s Day! And bitcoin holding above 9k :)


... and you are still holding none if it.

« First    « Previous    Comments 332 - 371 of 371    Last »


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions