patrick.net

BayArea says

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

There are no taxes on bitcoin gains, since no one knows who the owners are. I suppose you could get caught at the point of converting it to dollars, but why even bother converting if merchants will directly accept bitcoin?

Patrick says

but why even bother converting if merchants will directly accept bitcoin?

to cash out big sums to buy a car or a house, they need to.

one of these days the gov will ban all of them. crypto currencies are heaven for tax evasion and money laundering. enough people do it, tax revenue will be down and uncle Sam will step in.

Newbie123 says

In my opinion, Cryptocurrency has just started. Once the institutional money starts trading it it will take off even more.

I don't doubt what you're saying here. Bitcoin could hit 20k for all I know and I'll miss out on those gains admittedly.

The one question I've had for pretty much all the people I've heard getting into this market, mind you these are people that are lucky to have a $60k a year job, what happens when the government shuts this down? I've yet to hear an answer that would make me even remotely comfortable investing in this stuff. So much of the language and behavior around bitcoin and crypto currencies has the smell of the pump and dump penny stock markets. There's absolutely money to be made. Massive amounts. You're a fool though to think you know the game compared to the people running this market.

This is anecdotal, but I know one individual VERY well that gets burned on anything he does outside of the field he knows. Literally EVERYTHING. He's pushing crypto. So yeah, I'll stay away. I've followed this policy of avoiding his choices and it has done me better then most "strategies." This isn't a joke either. He has the heard mentality and gets burned every time.

I'd personally stay away BayArea, but everyone's risk tolerance is different. Tread carefully with money you'd be willing to lose at a casino would be my only advice. For me right now, that would be $10k. But I'd rather spend 40 hours researching companies, that are legal entities and extremely unlikely to be shut down, that might pop on the regular stock market, Throw the $10k at them. Versus buying bitcoin that will very likely be shut down at some point by the US government and most foreign governments. For me it's a when not if conversation about bitcoin being shut down. That's just my opinion and I think anyone saying otherwise is just stating their own opinion. And that's the problem with this type of market. Good luck if you do decide to dive in though.

anonymous says

Coinbase ordered to report 14,355 users to the IRS. Anyone moving more than $20,000 on the platform is subject to the new order.

This is interesting. We'll see how it plays out. Looks like the IRS has the bitcoin can of worms now. Let's see if they open it.
anonymous says

The introduction of various financial products around Bitcoin will amplify the amount of risk investors can take. Cantor Fitzgerald, a large broker which owns an exchange, announced today that it plans to launch Bitcoin derivatives in the first half of 2018. Futures and derivatives allow investors to place bets on bitcoin without owning any of the actual currency, amplifying the amount of financial leverage on the underlying asset. It was an explosion of derivatives pegged to real estate assets like mortgages that underpinned the financial collapse of 2008.

This is really starting to amaze me. You could have made a lot of money inflating the real estate bubble, just like you can now in bitcoin/cryptos. So there are opportunities. But I think everyone can agree a less regulated real estate and mortgage market caused some massive problems for some people. I don't see how bitcoin/cryptos don't come back to earth (or some even cease to exist) in the coming months or years. Too much risk for me. I also don't need fuck you money. That can corrupt people that think they can handle it.

Bitcoin plunges 20% from its high.

It's been a wild ride for bitcoin traders.

From Wednesday's high of $11,363.99, bitcoin has fallen to a low of $9,021.85, a 20.6 percent drop. The crypotocurrency is in a period of extreme volatility after a strong showing over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, when it set multiple all-time records.

Bitcoin last traded at $9,206.13, down 6.2 percent on Thursday, according to CoinDesk.

But despite the cryptocurrency's sharp decline after hitting an all-time high, it could fall to near $7,000 without doing much damage on a technical basis, said Mark Newton of Newton Advisors.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/30/bitcoin-plunges-20-percent-from-its-high.html

Patrick says

BayArea says

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

There are no taxes on bitcoin gains, since no one knows who the owners are. I suppose you could get caught at the point of converting it to dollars, but why even bother converting if merchants will directly accept bitcoin?

Paying with bitcoin is also a taxable event, if I understand the IRS gibberish correctly.

KimJongUn says

Paying with bitcoin is also a taxable event, if I understand the IRS gibberish correctly.

I don't even know if it's gibberish. If you start with 1 and end with 2, the IRS is getting something in between. I'm not sure the currency matters, at least if you're a US citizen. I could be wrong of course, but fighting the IRS most the time is a losing battle.

I think it's here to stay but nonetheless overvalued. Also the uncertainty wrt taxes and possible penalties/prosecution will keep many away from going big on bitcoin. But it will definitely become a player so I guess any value from $500-$20000 is possible from here, considering its wild swings. Not for me. Also the current mania and funds asking you to join them reminds me of the comical/frantic bay area real estate radio commercials where they ask you to blindly put your money into some flippers/REIT investors schemes.

WookieMan says

KimJongUn says

Paying with bitcoin is also a taxable event, if I understand the IRS gibberish correctly.

I don't even know if it's gibberish. If you start with 1 and end with 2, the IRS is getting something in between. I'm not sure the currency matters, at least if you're a US citizen. I could be wrong of course, but fighting the IRS most the time is a losing battle.

Buying and selling assets with bitcoins might be a way of evading taxes and government scrutiny.

Nearly doubled in the last month

Up ~10x this year

I think I may make a small investment into bitcoin if for nothing more than to force me to better understand it.


So there are currently 16M coins and by definition, there can never be more than 21M coins to cap supply

It’s decentralized, backed by umm.. nothing?

I’ve looked at “Coinbase” ...or GDAX to acquire bitcoin for little to no fees.

I’m not so worried about being able to acquire it but I’m terrified of not being able to turn it back into cash when I want to... any thoughts on that?

BayArea says

no taxation on gains

wrong

KimJongUn says

BayArea says

no taxation on gains

wrong

Explain por favor

Also, what is the smallest fraction of bitcoin that I can buy today?

And is Coinbase or GDAX preferred for a first time investor?

This isn't investing, it's pure gambling.

So this isn’t like the stock market where it’s Mon-Fri 6am-1pm west coast time... rather it’s 24hrs per day? 365 days per year?

anonymous says

You have the constant never ending verdicts that Bitcoin etc. is a scam, bubble, etc. and then you have some like this.

Why Bitcoin's Price Will Be Valued At $150,000 By The End Of 2018, According To An Expert. 2017 may be the last year middle-class people will still be able to afford to buy and hold on to a few bitcoins.

Growth in 2017 Hit 1000 Percent

Bitcoin started the year valued at $963 dollars each and has seen a staggering 1000 percent growth within the last 11 months. To put that into perspective, a $1000-dollar investment in Bitcoin is now worth more than $10,000. As an example, an investment in January equivalent to the price of an iPhone 7 could now buy you 10 of the iPhone X. The reason behind the staggering growth is the money that has been flowing into cryptocurrencies.

Demand Is Spiking at Rapid Speed

Coinbase, the San Francisco-bed Bitcoin exchange and the largest in the U.S., has more than 12 million user accounts and is estimate...

If it's such a guarantee, he wouldn't be telling you to buy it. He'd be buying it himself.

I'm just telling you how I see those things... reminds me of that 2006 (buy now or be priced out forever thing)

But I don't understand Bitcoins, all I know is that I can't get a hamburger with it or fill up my car, so seems rather strange that people are buying these things.

I made a small investment in bitcoin via coinbase, mostly to force myself to get familiar with it and learn how it works.

I plan to buy a small position in litecoin and ethereum too.

There was another exchange hack yesterday. $70M worth of bitcoins stolen.

Where do you guys buy from? I've been looking at coinbase.com, but man, they want a LOT of personal information.

Coinbase has had some moderate severity bugs in their sign up / verification process for at least 3 months. That really worries me...if their programmers are either too busy, or just don't realize they have these bugs, well...neither reflects well on them.

Stuff like this doesn't make me feel comfortable giving them my info + money.

goat says

Coinbase has had some moderate severity bugs in their sign up / verification process for at least 3 months. That really worries me...if their programmers are either too busy, or just don't realize they have these bugs, well...neither reflects well on them.

Stuff like this doesn't make me feel comfortable giving them my info + money.

I had some problems with the identity verification and had to try to register several times before it went through successfully.

When you sign up for Coinbase you will notice that their system is very easy to use and transactions are simple. But the Coinbase service isn’t very powerful. For example, you can’t set limit and stop orders.

The good news is that Coinbase is linked to GDAX. After you have a Coinbase account, you can then sign up for GDAX. GDAX is owned by Coinbase and once you fund your Coinbase account it will link to GDAX.

With GDAX you can set limit and stop orders. GDAX also allows you to buy and sell without fees.

Does anyone know if there are some legitimate US based companies that will allow me to buy IOTA?

Here is a primitive newbie question (shows you im just getting started with Bitcoin):

Now that I own Bitcoin through Coinbase, how would I go about using my Bitcoins for retail transactions if I wanted?

Newbie123 says

BTW, if you plan on investing (some say gambling) in cryptocurrency its recommended to store them on a hardware wallet (trezor, nano etc.). Hackers wont be able to access your currency as it's stored offline. " Trezor is an isolated environment for offline transaction signing and using a small display you can visually verify the transaction contents"

Thank you for all your feedback, you’ve been very helpful.

I have one question about the hardware wallet. Since my ownership of Bitcoin is with Coinbase/GDAX, I have my Bitcoin security entirely with them and their servers.

Where (and how) would I begin protecting my position with Coinbase with a hardware wallet?

It is a mathematical given that bitcoin on its current exponential trajectory will end in tears for may who buy in late, since it exhibits the classical ponzi/pyramid-scheme pattern. Nothing can go up in value like this without either being a ponzi scheme or some real unique material in incredibly high demand and depleting fast. Not saying it isn't here to stay as a valid form of payment and that much of the wealth from other forms of payment will be redistributed onto bitcoin, but at some point the musical chairs will stop and cause those who bought in late in the ponzi game to lose a lot of money.

It's not investing, it's gambling.

HEYYOU says

How many will end up in the bottom 10%?

Ummm...., about 10% of the buyers.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-08/the-bitcoin-whales-1-000-people-who-own-40-percent-of-the-market

Holders of large amounts of bitcoin are often known as whales. And they’re becoming a worry for investors. They can send prices plummeting by selling even a portion of their holdings. And those sales are more probable now that the cryptocurrency is up nearly twelvefold from the beginning of the year.
About 40 percent of bitcoin is held by perhaps 1,000 users; at current prices, each may want to sell about half of his or her holdings, says Aaron Brown, former managing director and head of financial markets research at AQR Capital Management. (Brown is a contributor to the Bloomberg Prophets online column.) What’s more, the whales can coordinate their moves or preview them to a select few. Many of the large owners have known one another for years and stuck by bitcoin through the early days when it was derided, and they can potentially band together to tank or prop up the market.

Is Bitcoin a Bubble or is it the Pin that Pops the Bubble?

https://www.stacksilvergetgoldbuybitcoin.com/blog/bitcoinbubble

For Coinbase users:

I’m getting estimates of like 7-10days for my funds to clear from Chase bank. Has anyone experienced this?

And why such low weekly limits? $5k-7.5k depending on what ID info I share.

Seems pretty Mickey Mouse. Do you want my money or not?

Made my first Lite Coin purchase today. I plan on purchasing more as well as Ether in the coming weeks.

I hate the $750 max/weekly purchase for Coinbase. Is there a way to up it?

Bitcoin, PSHAW! All the smart money is in tulips.

BayArea says

why such low weekly limits? $5k-7.5k depending on what ID info I share.

This is ostensibly to help prevent a massive sell off by one (or a few) people, which would crash the value of the crypto in question. Obviously, it can only prevent it so much... If everyone decides to cash out at the same time, it will be a classic run-on-the-bank scenario.

Fill disclosure- I got in on BTC about 2 years ago, moved it all over to Litecoin about 6 months ago, and as of this month, I'm out. I'm happy with my gains, but it's obvious that this will not end well for most people. People were saying that tech stock values were limitless in 1999. People were saying that real estate values were limitless in 2007. And now this. If you get in now, be prepared to move fast. Perhaps there's another year or two of growth, but a correction is inevitable, and it will hurt. A lot.

BayArea says

I'd like to start a conversation on crypto-currency, particularly Bitcoin.

What we can say now is Bitcoin is either the most surprising technical innovation ever, or the easier to spot bubble ever.

When bubbles go vertical btw, it's not a good sign.

My buddy is sitting on a bunch of bitcoins from when it started, he was even accepting them as payment for hair cuts when they were like 10-20$. He is still holding onto them, I don't think I would hold them at these amounts. I probably would have got out when it hit 1k, Seems like a bubble to me.

RC2006 says

He is still holding onto them

He'll no doubt still be hanging on to them when they are back to $20.

Is there a way to short this thing?

Newbie123 says

anon_bba47 says
I also think there is probably 2 year left at least. The dot com bubble went mainstream, the housing bubble in 07 was mainstream but Cryptocurrency is not mainstream yet. Its on a fast track but its not there yet.

Perhaps. It's impossible to really tell. The problem is that these crypto exchanges move so much faster than those other two bubbles- the stock market of the late 90's didn't have a markedly significant amount of high frequency trading going on, and real estate transactions simply move slower by their very nature... But crypto exchanges? They're open 24-7 non-stop, and still mostly unregulated. You could go to sleep broke and wake up a millionaire- or vice versa. The odds of catastrophic flash crashes are so, so much higher. It's literally a ticking time bomb at this point.

I have literally about doubled my money in the last 16 hours on my small LTC purchase.

It's gonna pop, but when....