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Bitcoin and Crypto-currency


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2017 Nov 5, 3:36pm   105,467 views  521 comments

by BayArea   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

#investing

Hi guys,

I'd like to start a conversation on crypto-currency, particularly Bitcoin.

What do you all think about it from an investment point of view today? I have some buddies in the finance world who are quite bullish on it and claim we are just scratching the surface. Judging by the recent performance, they may be right.

For people who are investing in Bitcoin, what are you using to invest and what recommendations do you have for a new investor?

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

I read this week that over 100,000 merchants in the USA are accepting Bitcoin today.

At the same time, digital currency does scare me a bit as it seems so abstract. Curious what PatNet thinks.

Thanks guys!

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469   WookieMan   2024 Feb 6, 10:10pm  

AD says

Why will bitcoin go to $100 or less ? People lose faith in it and why would they lose faith in it ?

Since the SEC has approved ETFs for Bitcoin I don't see much of the government trying to depress its value.

Not about government. It's the $$$$. The value is capped and people will lose interest in holding it because the dollar to bitcoin price will go to shit. No time frame, but it's coming.
470   AD   2024 Feb 6, 11:16pm  

WookieMan says


AD says

Why will bitcoin go to $100 or less ? People lose faith in it and why would they lose faith in it ?

Since the SEC has approved ETFs for Bitcoin I don't see much of the government trying to depress its value.

Not about government. It's the $$$$. The value is capped and people will lose interest in holding it because the dollar to bitcoin price will go to shit. No time frame, but it's coming.


yep, Bitcoin "halving" ..

As of Dec. 18, 2023, 19.57 million bitcoins have been mined, leaving about 1.45 million bitcoins to release. The total bitcoin supply is capped at 21 million around the year 2140.

So there won't be an more mining of bitcoin when there are 21 million bitcoins in circulation. But what does that really mean as far as bitcoin's value ?

.
471   Misc   2024 Feb 14, 1:59am  

Just because something is intrinsically worthless does not mean it cannot go up in value.

I ain't gonna put any of my money into it, but I will watch it go up and giggle.
472   richwicks   2024 Feb 14, 3:49am  

AD says

Why will bitcoin go to $100 or less ? People lose faith in it and why would they lose faith in it ?


It has zero utility. You can't buy anything with it. To buy or sell it, in any quantity takes days or weeks.
Transactions are either incredibly slow or horrifically expensive because it's just a distributed, SLOW database.

People buying it completely don't understand it.

It's a stock of a company that makes no product and has no revenue.
473   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Mar 2, 11:31am  

AD says

Not about government. It's the $$$$. The value is capped and people will lose interest in holding it because the dollar to bitcoin price will go to shit. No time frame, but it's coming.

yep, Bitcoin "halving" ..


No. The number is capped, there is no cap at all on the value people may perceive it has. It's the very 1st asset class that has this feature.
474   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Mar 2, 11:34am  

AD says

Is it a software services company or a bitcoin investor ? or both ?


There are lots of videos the CEO made that describes the history of the company. Mainly how he ignored what the academics from the school he came from kept telling him about what technology to use for x-problem over the past 4 decades and how he always made out like a bandit vs. the academic strategy. The bitcorn thing is just a very recent move he made and there are lots of videos of him explaining that logic as well.
475   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 21, 11:15am  

LOL, strawman fail!
477   AD   2024 Apr 21, 12:56pm  

The Bitcoin miners will make money after it reaches its limit of 21 million by charging for transaction fees as part of verifying on the blockchain. There will be competition among the miners so that will determine the transaction fees.

One theory is that the NSA and CIA created Bitcoin and maybe employed a contractor to assist with this. Perhaps the CIA uses Bitcoin to fund its black ops and also to make payments to people like in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard.

Its easier for an Obama or Biden to make a payment with Bitcoin (and safer as far as leaving a paper trail to follow) then it is to send pallets of cash, etc.

.
478   AD   2024 Apr 21, 1:07pm  

richwicks says

People buying it completely don't understand it.


Look at how many Bitcoins it took to buy the median house in the USA. The number is going down each year, Mister Rich.

I know I made a forecast here about the 30 year mortgage rate reaching and/or steadying at 5.5% in 2024.

I'm going to forecast that it will take no more than 1 Bitcoin to buy a US median house within the next 5 years.

.
479   ElYorsh   2024 Apr 21, 2:53pm  

AD says

richwicks says


People buying it completely don't understand it.


Look at how many Bitcoins it took to buy the median house in the USA. The number is going down each year, Mister Rich.

I know I made a forecast here about the 30 year mortgage rate reaching and/or steadying at 5.5% in 2024.

I'm going to forecast that it will take no more than 1 Bitcoin to buy a US median house within the next 5 years.

.

All Ponzi schemes initially look like the best investment ever. Just saying
480   ElYorsh   2024 Apr 21, 2:58pm  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says





Bitcoin is really nothing until you convert it into a usable currency. Currently, It is being used as a tool to store wealth because more and more people mistrust governments' currency. Basically they are all waiting for the dust to settle and at that point convert their Bitcoin into whatever currency takes the lead. Whoever takes the lead will just tax or fee the hell out of people's "stored" wealth.
481   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 21, 3:15pm  

ElYorsh says

Bitcoin is really nothing


True. Butttt....

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Really? But the Bitcoin fluffers told us this shit is going to replace fiat currencies!

Currency, fiat or otherwise, need to have transaction utility in order to be...em, currency.
482   clambo   2024 Apr 21, 3:19pm  

A friend of mine is a retired professor of economics at UC.
He said crypto is a scam, virtual gold, gambling but better odds than Vegas or the lottery.
He recommended I buy crypto with 1/2 of 1% of my net worth.
I'm still chicken.
483   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 21, 3:22pm  

clambo says

A friend of mine is a retired professor of economics at UC.
He said crypto is a scam, virtual gold, gambling but better odds than Vegas or the lottery.
He recommended I buy crypto with 1/2 of 1% of my net worth.
I'm still chicken.


Ask him how Tulip Mania worked out for everyone.
484   HeadSet   2024 Apr 21, 5:07pm  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Ask him how Tulip Mania worked out for everyone.

Fine, if you were not the last investor. If you buy into the Ponzi, just get out early enough to leave a little profit for the next guy.
485   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 21, 5:25pm  

HeadSet says

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says


Ask him how Tulip Mania worked out for everyone.

Fine, if you were not the last investor. If you buy into the Ponzi, just get out early enough to leave a little profit for the next guy.


No. Not fine.

Capital that otherwise would have been invested into far more productive pursuits - factories, training, infrastructure, R&D, etc. - was wasted on fucking tulips and crypto.

And that impacts all of us.

Economists have a term for it, even: malinvestment

Ask your economics prof buddy. Unless his last name is Krugman.
486   clambo   2024 Apr 21, 5:50pm  

I think my friend agrees with everyone who thinks it's nonsense and malinvestment; he said it's gambling but the odds are acceptable.
I'm just too cheap to gamble more than a buck or two with lottery tickets
487   HeadSet   2024 Apr 21, 6:59pm  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

No. Not fine.

I was flippantly talking about the individual who buys in to a Ponzi scheme. That "leave a little profit for the next guy" is a play on that famous Rothchild axiom. Yes, any speculative investment, be it bitcoin, tulips, casino games or lottery tickets, are macroeconomic malinvestments.
488   AD   2024 Apr 22, 9:22pm  

.

https://www.mypanhandle.com/news/rfk-jr-im-gonna-put-the-entire-us-budget-on-blockchain

RFK Jr.: ‘I’m gonna put the entire US budget on blockchain’

.
489   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 23, 8:08am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says






Comment deleter! I used to screw with a devops guy, get him all riled up on slack then delete my comments lol.. This is still a strawman. Nobody uses it for currency or has really discussed that much in about a decade - until George took his trip.

He discussed yesterday and the IMF and the power grid certainly do not think it's worthless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbREYMh21s
490   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 23, 8:33am  

just_passing_through says

This is still a strawman. Nobody uses it for currency or has really discussed that much in about a decade - until


Sorry pal. They still do whenever they pitch that it will replace the USD, blah, blah, blah.
491   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 23, 8:34am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

They still do whenever they pitch that it will replace the USD, blah, blah, blah.


Who is 'they'?
492   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 23, 8:36am  

Okay, I do see some google hits but mostly poo pooing that idea.

Will replace gold maybe in certain scenarios... In fact, I suspect to the ire of gold bugs I suspect gold would be much higher right now if it didn't exist.
493   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 23, 8:42am  

just_passing_through says

Will replace gold maybe in certain scenarios... In fact, I suspect to the ire of gold bugs I suspect gold would be much higher right now if it didn't exist.


Central banks are buying gold right now, not BC.
494   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 23, 8:45am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Central banks are buying gold right now, not BC.


True but rumor is we'll hear that at least one is by the end of this year.
495   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 23, 8:45am  

just_passing_through says

True but rumor is we'll hear that at least one is by the end of this year.


Rumor = bullshit, like bicoin itself.
496   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 23, 8:46am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Rumor = bullshit, like bicoin itself.


We shall see but would you rather that or the CBDCs they are planning to shove down our throats?
497   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 23, 8:54am  

just_passing_through says

We shall see but would you rather that or the CBDCs they are planning to shove down our throats?



498   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 23, 8:56am  

Nice comeback.
499   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 23, 8:58am  

just_passing_through says

Nice comeback.


You presented a false choice. Or strawman choice.

Because, 1) I don't want either and 2) we'll get both anyway.
500   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 23, 9:03am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

1) I don't want either and 2) we'll get both anyway.


I sure hope you're wrong but seems you'll be right about that.

For those that don't know: 11 bitcorn ETFs were approved by the SEC this year. It's not going to go away.
501   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 23, 9:08am  

just_passing_through says


For those that don't know: 11 bitcorn ETFs were approved by the SEC this year. It's not going to go away.


Then why did you say:just_passing_through says


We shall see but would you rather that or the CBDCs they are planning to shove down our throats?


BTW, what is the rumor exactly?

Then only one I have heard is Venezuela selling their oil (what little they still produce) for crypto to sanctions proof their revenue. All the crypto fluffer idiots them plastered social media with posts like "See! See! The USD's days are FUCKED! Crypto rules!" And many of them automatically assumed it would be Bitcoin...because fluffers gotta fluff, after all.

...then it was revealed that the crypto Caracas is talking about is Tether.


502   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 24, 8:43am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

We shall see but would you rather that or the CBDCs they are planning to shove down our throats?


Fantasy? Hope that we'll be able to trade in and out of them maybe?

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

BTW, what is the rumor exactly?


Just that we'd learn of a central bank buying bitcorn this year. It might be bullshit but stated by Edward Snowden, Grant Cardone, Anthony Pompliano.

If it happens it'll be significant even if it's a small amount. One more step towards permanence.
503   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 24, 8:44am  

Quoting doesn't work right... I quoted 'why did you say that' from UITF but it shows what I said.
504   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 24, 8:47am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Then only one I have heard is Venezuela selling their oil (what little they still produce) for crypto to sanctions proof their revenue. All the crypto fluffer idiots them plastered social media with posts like "See! See! The USD's days are FUCKED! Crypto rules!" And many of them automatically assumed it would be Bitcoin...because fluffers gotta fluff, after all.

...then it was revealed that the crypto Caracas is talking about is Tether.


I see, so by fluffers saying it'll replace the $ you saw that on reddit or something - not on patnet.
505   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Apr 24, 9:37am  

just_passing_through says


see, so by fluffers saying it'll replace the $ you saw that on reddit or something - not on patnet.


They are supposedly going to offer to sell their oil for Tether. Nothing about replacing the dollar.

Or are you referring to.the fluffers saying that Bitcoin will replace the dollar? They always say that.

Oh looky! Seems that crypto doesn't live up to its jive after all;

Stablecoin issuer Tether has said it will freeze wallets that are using USDT to evade sanctions on oil exports in Venezuela.

The decision comes after Reuters reported that Venezuela’s state-run oil company PDVSA increased its use of tether after the U.S. reimposed sanctions on oil exports.

The firm froze 41 wallets tied to the U.S. Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) Specially Designated Nationals (SDN) list in December...


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tether-freeze-wallets-evading-venezuelan-063152292.html

Remember a few years back when Facebook was going to set up its own currency? Libra, I think it was called.

Basically, it was to be a stable coin too. An electronic currency board like Tether is.

The Feds killed that too.
506   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Apr 25, 8:48am  

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Oh looky! Seems that crypto doesn't live up to its jive after all;


I agree with that - I only support bitcorn as it's the only trustless, truly decentralized and secured with a monster wall of energy. The majority of the rest are scams (where people get rug pulled) or at best wild ass gambling.

I do own some in the wild ass gambling sector though just for fun. I suspect one or a few of those will make it over the long run because they are directly programmable. Bitcorn isn't programmable so if you want to do smart contracts etc., you need to do that on another layer.
508   DOGEWontAmountToShit   2024 Jun 13, 5:19pm  

Patrick says







They tax it just like anything else: there is no 'crypto' in a digital currency that uses a publicly accessable and trackable transaction ledger.

So if you don't report it and pay taxes on it, they can nail you just like any other non-reported income.

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