patrick.net

Goran_K says

I just checked the thread. Patrick not only deleted the post, he deleted the actual user account. I knew Patrick wouldn't leave such a post up despite your claims.

errc says

Patrick definitely didn’t delete it. Hell, he may have been one of the Likes. Patrick also denies that racism exists lol

So yes, you were dishonest, and it's a shame that you feel the need to act this way.

Incorrect. Patrick banned Sniper when he posted as Ironman. He never deleted the actual comment, it was collateral damage when he banned his account.

Please stop lying, that is uncivil @Patrick

In addition to ironman calling Barack Obama a nigger, he also called Michelle a monkey and a dude. There was a surprising amount of traction on the Michelle being a dude concept.
Patrick deleted the user account because of the doxxing. It had nothing to do with the nigger comments.

Sniper says

errc says

You have a lot of nerve calling me a liar. Not very civil coming from a moderator

You said you know it doesn’t exist. Why do you feel the need to lie?

Speaking of lies, why do you continually accuse people of things, but can't provide a single piece of EVIDENCE to support your accusations?

Got any proof?

Yep i bumped the thread with the quote that captured your post calling the President a nigger.

Are you denying that now?

Change of heart?

errc says

Goran_K says

errc says

Find it yourself. It’s in the Trump inauguration thread

I don't believe the post exist and do not believe Patrick would leave such a post up. So why would I look for something that I know doesn't exist?

I bumped the thread. So now what do you have to say?

You have a lot of nerve calling me a liar. Not very civil coming from a moderator

You said you know it doesn’t exist. Why do you feel the need to lie?

To be fair, he said that he didn't think that the post exists in one sentence. He then said that he knew it didn't exist in the next sentence. That is the kind of clear thinking and excellent writing that we should all strive to achieve.

YesYNot says

errc says

Goran_K says

errc says

Find it yourself. It’s in the Trump inauguration thread

I don't believe the post exist and do not believe Patrick would leave such a post up. So why would I look for something that I know doesn't exist?

I bumped the thread. So now what do you have to say?

You have a lot of nerve calling me a liar. Not very civil coming from a moderator

You said you know it doesn’t exist. Why do you feel the need to lie?

To be fair, he said that he didn't think that the post exists in one sentence. He then said that he knew it didn't exist in the next sentence. That is the kind of clear thinking and excellent writing that we should all strive to achieve.

Either way he’s lying.

The post still exists in the form of a captured quote. You yourself corroborated that you bared witness

Sniper says

errc says

Sniper says

errc says

You have a lot of nerve calling me a liar. Not very civil coming from a moderator

You said you know it doesn’t exist. Why do you feel the need to lie?

Speaking of lies, why do you continually accuse people of things, but can't provide a single piece of EVIDENCE to support your accusations?

Got any proof?

Yep i bumped the thread with the quote that captured your post calling the President a nigger.

Are you denying that now?

Change of heart?

How is that proof?

How do we know you didn't go in and edit that comment that guy made when you quoted it? You probably changed his quote just so you could make some obscure point.

Also, why are you so bu...

We know because we saw it with our own eyes.

I’m curious why you’re denying it now. Do you wish to renege on what you said? Or are you too high to remember posting it?

You seemed to have such conviction back in January, that you felt calling The President a nigger was civil and added something to the thread

Strategist says

Bernie is an idiot. According to him, if everyone makes Zero, you are better off because you are equal.

Is it ok to call this for what it is -- a LIE?

justme says

Strategist says

Bernie is an idiot. According to him, if everyone makes Zero, you are better off because you are equal.

Is it ok to call this for what it is -- a LIE?

Hell no! That would be uncivil, because you aren’t a protected right winger. No soup for you!

errc says

Many of us came here for a civil exchange of ideas, driven by a thirst for knowledge. What happened over time, in your opinion? Why was civility lost and who is responsible?

The above is why I came here, too. I wanted facts that I could not find elsewhere. I wanted insight. I wanted knowledge. I wanted the stuff that was not in the newspaper because the newspapers were completely controlled by Realtor advertising dollars. But apparently knowledge is no longer what this site is about. The only way to get back to the good old days is to throttle the volume (which I think is the true meaning of the word "moderation" ) of threads and comments. Then the crap content will die a natural death.

justme says

Strategist says

Bernie is an idiot. According to him, if everyone makes Zero, you are better off because you are equal.

Is it ok to call this for what it is -- a LIE?

Sure. Now explain why you believe it’s a lie.

Sniper says

errc says

We know because we saw it with our own eyes.

Who's "we"? Do you have multiple Alts here?

errc says

Do you wish to renege on what you said?

Who's "you"?

You missed this question;

Sniper says

Also, why are you so butthurt over a comment that was made almost a year ago? Are you really that sensitive?

Errc, for someone who likes to swear at people and call them all types of vulgar names, you seem to be a bit hypocritical, right?

You asked how can we know, are you admitting to having multiple aliases and alts?


I responded with we because YesYNot corroborated and even expanded on what I said

You are projecting here, now stop being uncivil

Sniper says

justme says

The above is why I came here, too. I wanted facts that I could not find elsewhere. I wanted insight. I wanted knowledge. I wanted the stuff that was not in the newspaper because the newspapers were completely controlled by Realtor advertising dollars. But apparently knowledge is no longer what this site is about.

So, you think coming to a PRIVATELY owned forum full of anonymous posters should be the source for accurate facts and knowledge?

You do get plenty here that's not in the newspapers, and not found elsewhere, so why are you upset about that?

You think returning to a forum that you were banned from is civil?

errc says

Either way he’s lying.

The post still exists in the form of a captured quote. You yourself corroborated that you bared witness

Yes. To be clear, I agree that you are correct. Goran wrote something very unclear, which it appears (to me) is common for him. That is not a personal attack. It's just something that I've noticed and pointed out a couple of times. He then called you dishonest, even though you were actually correct in spirit. Oh dear. I see that CIC is still refusing to fess up about who he is. By the way, I remember him calling Obama a nigger, because it was a bit of a stretch, even for him.

errc says

I always assumed he did it intentionally to be uncivil.

Speaking of uncivil

Sniper says

errc says

I always assumed he did it intentionally to be uncivil.

Speaking of uncivil

Whoa Goran will have to ban you for doing that he said it’s bigly against the rules

Let’s see if he’s consistent

Goran_K says

justme says

Strategist says

Bernie is an idiot. According to him, if everyone makes Zero, you are better off because you are equal.

Is it ok to call this for what it is -- a LIE?

Sure. Now explain why you believe it’s a lie.

The normal way of having a discussion is that the person that makes a claim has to back it up. It is not my job to prove that Bernie did not make that statement. It is the job of Strategist to provide a solid reference to Bernie making such a statement.

As a side note, I might ask Goran_K if he subcribes to the notion, seemingly most popular among right-wingers, that "you can't prove a negative"?

justme says

The normal way of having a discussion is that the person that makes a claim has to back it up. It is not my job to prove that Bernie dd not make that statement. It is the job of Stragist to provide a solid reference to Bernie making such a statement.

The original assertion by strategist is an example of a lazy hyperbolic statement. There is some truth to the idea that socialists value equality more than rugged individualists. However, the idea that Bernie would favor everybody making zero to what we have now is clearly ridiculous. The sheer number of times he asked for a living wage of $15/hr is proof enough for me that the statement is false. Any discussion worth reading would be based on whether or not a $15/hr minimum wage would be helpful or would backfire.

justme says

The normal way of having a discussion is that the person that makes a claim has to back it up. It is not my job to prove that Bernie dd not make that statement. It is the job of Stragist to provide a solid reference to Bernie making such a statement.

Sure, but in the interest of generating debate, why don't you challenge his points and point out where there is dishonesty? Wouldn't that be more fun?

errc says

Whoa Goran will have to ban you for doing that he said it’s bigly against the rules

What is against the rules?

Goran_K says

errc says

Whoa Goran will have to ban you for doing that he said it’s bigly against the rules

What is against the rules?

Thought you said dragging comments from uncivil jail and reposting them to threads was against your rules?

errc says

Thought you said dragging comments from uncivil jail and reposting them to threads was against your rules?

I allowed you to drag out and post a comment where someone named Ironman called Obama a racial slur and allowed that to be posted and discussed through numerous posts.

Here, Sniper is asking you a question, and making a point about your previous vicious racial slurs towards me and my wife.

I'm just trying to be even handed here.

Of course I could delete all of your posts about Ironman's racial slur, and also Sniper's comments about your racist tirade as well.

Which way do you think would be preferable?

Goran_K says

errc says

Thought you said dragging comments from uncivil jail and reposting them to threads was against your rules?

I allowed you to drag out and post a comment where someone named Ironman called Obama a racial slur and allowed that to be posted and discussed through numerous posts.

Here, Sniper is asking you a question, and making a point about your previous vicious racial slurs towards me and my wife.

I'm just trying to be even handed here.

Of course I could delete all of your posts about Ironman's racial slur, and also Sniper's comments about your racist tirade as well.

Which way do you think would be preferable?

Yea except you’re lying I didn’t take a post from uncivil jail and repost it to the mains. You were calling me a liar and asked for the proof!

We’re you just baiting me to break your rules?

Why do you feel the need to keep being so dishonest?

errc says

Yea except you’re lying I didn’t take a post from uncivil jail and repost it to the mains. You were calling me a liar and asked for the proof!

We’re you just baiting me to break your rules?

Why do you feel the need to keep being so dishonest?

No I gave you a one time exception because I didn't believe you that Patrick would leave that type of comment up, and I was right, the comment was zapped.

Since I gave you a one-time exception, I think it fair to give one to Sniper.

(Please no more posting errrc's openly vicious racist tirade anymore though Sniper, if you could, thanks)

Goran_K says

errc says

Yea except you’re lying I didn’t take a post from uncivil jail and repost it to the mains. You were calling me a liar and asked for the proof!

We’re you just baiting me to break your rules?

Why do you feel the need to keep being so dishonest?

No I gave you a one time exception because I didn't believe you that Patrick would leave that type of comment up, and I was right, the comment was zapped.

Since I gave you a one-time exception, I think it fair to give one to Sniper.

(Please no more posting errrc's openly vicious racist tirade anymore though Sniper, if you could, thanks)

Again with the lying.

Patrick never censored the post where Sniper/Ironman called Obama a nigger. All of his posts were scrubbed wheN Patrick banned him for trolling his site with personal attacks 24/7.

This is provable. Simply ask @Patrick to confirm that he removed the post in question for being uncivil, and I’ll retract the accusations that you are lying.

Simple enough

Goran_K says

Sure, but in the interest of generating debate, why don't you challenge his points and point out where there is dishonesty? Wouldn't that be more fun?

I'm not here to "generate debate". I'm here to find the correct information and dismiss and/or debunk the false information.

And by the way, your statement about wanting to "generate debate" is diametrically opposed to what you said in MY thread, where you stated that

Goran_K says

I've never cared much about volume.

errc says

Again with the lying.

Patrick never censored the post where Sniper/Ironman called Obama a nigger. All of his posts were scrubbed wheN Patrick banned him for trolling his site with personal attacks 24/7.

This is provable. Simply ask @Patrick to confirm that he removed the post in question for being uncivil, and I’ll retract the accusations that you are lying.

Simple enough

If Patrick confirms what you're saying is correct about the Obama N-word comment, then of course I'll admit I was wrong. But in the grand scheme of things, it's no big deal to me, but thanks for your efforts.

I hope we can both agree that openly vicious racism is extremely hateful and the person who would use racism to hurt other people is probably a person who lacks moral character.

justme says

And by the way, your statement about wanting to "generate debate" is diametrically opposed to what you said in MY thread, where you stated that

Yes, I want quality over volume. Right now what is happening here, between us, is just volume. I don't really think it helps the website.

Goran_K says

errc says

Again with the lying.

Patrick never censored the post where Sniper/Ironman called Obama a nigger. All of his posts were scrubbed wheN Patrick banned him for trolling his site with personal attacks 24/7.

This is provable. Simply ask @Patrick to confirm that he removed the post in question for being uncivil, and I’ll retract the accusations that you are lying.

Simple enough

If Patrick confirms what you're saying is correct about the Obama N-word comment, then of course I'll admit I was wrong. But in the grand scheme of things, it's no big deal to me, but thanks for your efforts.

I hope we can both agree that openly vicious racism is extremely hateful and the person who would use racism to hurt other people is probably a person who lacks moral character.

If you’re open to the possibility that you are wrong, why did you default by calling me a liar?

I’m confident you won’t find an honest person to agree with you that you can both act that way and except nor request, civility.

If you want civility, you’re going to have to lead by example

errc says

If you’re open to the possibility that you are wrong, why did you default by calling me a liar?

I’m confident you won’t find an honest person to agree with you that you can both act that way and except nor request, civility.

If you want civility, you’re going to have to lead by example

I never called your a liar. I simply said I don't believe the post was left up, and I was right.

Goran_K says

errc says

If you’re open to the possibility that you are wrong, why did you default by calling me a liar?

I’m confident you won’t find an honest person to agree with you that you can both act that way and except nor request, civility.

If you want civility, you’re going to have to lead by example

I never called your a liar. I simply said I don't believe the post was left up, and I was right.

You suggested that Patrick removed it

You were wrong

Patrick banned Ironman/Sniper for taking his crusade of disrupting the forum and harassing the free thinking posters, off the web and into the real world. All of his posts were scrubbed in the banning. Including the post where Sniper/Ironman called the President a nigger.

Ironman/Sniper was such an egregious offender, that the post didn’t even register as abnormal.

For all I know, maybe Patrick is ok with people calling Obama a nigger on his site. That, I cannot speak to.

Goran_K says

justme says

And by the way, your statement about wanting to "generate debate" is diametrically opposed to what you said in MY thread, where you stated that

Goran_K says

I've never cared much about volume.

Yes, I want quality over volume. Right now what is happening here, between us, is just volume. I don't really think it helps the website.

I disagree. It sure as heck is not just volume. Pointing out the shortcomings and self-contradictions of an omnipotent moderator is QUALITY, and to borrow a humorous phrase, quality of the BELTFED variety. Nothing is more important than taking the moderators to task when they do wrong, as you have (IMO) done. Moderation by an omnipotent moderator has been an unmitigated disaster. That is my opinion.

Goran_K says

errc says

So you don’t find it offensive when Sniper/Ironman posted “Bye Bye Nigger boy!!!” At The President, because racism doesn’t exist?

I never saw him post that. I'm sure Patrick deleted it if that did happen.

See you said you were sure

“if” that did happen, which is another way of calling me a liar.

justme says

I disagree. It sure as heck is not just volume. Pointing out the shortcomings and self-contradictions of an omnipotent moderator is QUALITY, and to borrow a phrase, quality of the BELTFED variety. Nothing is more important than taking the moderators to task when they do wrong, as you have (IMO) done. Moderation by an omnipotent moderator has been an unmitigated disaster. That is my opinion.

I'm not sure moderation has had zero effect. Just look at how civil your post was. I'm impressed to be honest, and you got your point across. Good job.

Goran_K says

I'm not sure moderation has had zero effect. Just look at how civil your post was. I'm impressed to be honest, and you got your point across. Good job.

My recent comment was no more and maybe even slightly less "civil" than the comment I posted that you banned me for, and that the crowd-censors jailed me for. So, yeah, some progress has been made, not because of omnipotent moderation, but rather in spite of omnipotent moderation.

But the fact remains that omnipotent moderation and mob-based prosecution must be stopped.

justme says

Goran_K says

I'm not sure moderation has had zero effect. Just look at how civil your post was. I'm impressed to be honest, and you got your point across. Good job.

My recent comment was no more and maybe even slightly less "civil" than the comment I posted that you banned me for, and that the crowd-censors jailed me for. So, yeah, some progress has been made, not because of omnipotent moderation, but rather in spite of omnipotent moderation.

But the fact remains that omnipotent moderation and mob-based prosecution must be stopped.

Unless your goal is to suppress free speech, and silence any dissenting opinions and critiques. Maybe that is what Patrick is going for these days

justme says

But the fact remains that omnipotent moderation and mob-based prosecution must be stopped.

You have nothing to worry about as long as you keep your posts focused on points/discussions instead of individuals.

errc says

Unless your goal is to suppress free speech, and silence any dissenting opinions and critiques. Maybe that is what Patrick is going for these days

Not at all. How many times can I say it? The rule is just don't deliberately insult the other users. Argue something other than the worthiness of the individual. That's about it.

I honestly wish I could have Hitler and Mohammed on here. They would probably have a lot of interesting points. I think they'd get along, too.

rando says

I honestly wish I could have Hitler and Mohammed on here. They would probably have a lot of interesting points. I think they'd get along, too.

As a quasi attorney (I'm not really an attorney ;), I'd advise you to delete this post. While I don't disagree with your sentiment here, this might not be something you want stamped in the internet history logs. At least the Hitler part. Mohammed is beloved here in America apparently. So you're good there.

rando says

I honestly wish I could have Hitler and Mohammed on here. They would probably have a lot of interesting points. I think they'd get along, too.

I would love to have Mohammad here, because I would love to slaughter him.
Hitler too, but clearly Mohammad has done more harm to mankind than Hitler.