patrick.net

Now we hear the video surveillance system at the school was on a approximate 20 minute recording delay, so the video couldn't be watch in real time. WHAT THE FUCK WAS GOING ON THERE??????

-----------------------------
Nearly a half-hour after Nikolas Cruz dropped his rifle and fled Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, police thought they were seeing him live on security cameras, still in the building. They were actually seeing images tape-delayed.

The Broward School District’s security cameras did not show real-time video for police, complicating their efforts to track and pin down the shooter, the South Florida Sun Sentinel has learned.

“They are monitoring the subject right now. He went from the third floor to the second floor, the third to the second floor … They’re monitoring him on camera,” an officer said on radio transmissions recorded by Broadcastify, an audio streaming website, at 2:54 p.m. In fact, Cruz was already long gone — he had escaped the school’s freshman building 26 minutes earlier and was sitting at a McDonald’s a mile away, a timeline released by the Broward Sheriff’s Office shows.

The video images were “delayed 20 minutes and nobody told us that,” said Coral Springs Police Chief Tony Pustizzi.

“There would be no point in having a video system in the school” with a delay, he said. “Why would anybody have that?”

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-response-20180221-story.html

TwoScoopsPlissken says

I actually don't give a shit if teachers are armed, I want huge schools to have a lousy gatehouse or entrance way where visitors have to show ID.

"We need 10000 more teachers in Whatever State @ $50k+/year each ! But we can't afford a $11/hr security guard or two per school."

This government can't afford anything, they already spent the next 20 years worth of taxes in pension promises to unions. This is how we turn socialist as a nation, where government employees rob taxpayers to have better benefits than those who are paying taxes. North Korea style.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Or, even more frequently, lethal DWIs

?

There already is border control so why would 1 argue for something that already exists?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

I actually don't give a shit if teachers are armed, I want huge schools to have a lousy gatehouse or entrance way where visitors have to show ID.

"We need 10000 more teachers in Whatever State @ $50k+/year each ! But we can't afford a $11/hr security guard or two per school."

What if that huge school is an open air school and circumventing any gatehouse would be elementary. That would have been the case at my high school.


The armed security guard at Stoneman got $75k a year that's $37.50 an hour not $11 and was totally ineffective.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

I actually don't give a shit if teachers are armed, I want huge schools to have a lousy gatehouse or entrance way where visitors have to show ID.

"We need 10000 more teachers in Whatever State @ $50k+/year each ! But we can't afford a $11/hr security guard or two per school."

What if that huge school is an open air school and circumventing any gatehouse would be elementary. That would have been the case at my high school.




The armed security guard at Stoneman got $75k a year that's $37.50 an hour not $11 and was totally ineffective.

A limit on how much an anon can post, Really?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

I actually don't give a shit if teachers are armed, I want huge schools to have a lousy gatehouse or entrance way where visitors have to show ID.

"We need 10000 more teachers in Whatever State @ $50k+/year each ! But we can't afford a $11/hr security guard or two per school."

What if that huge school is an open air school and circumventing any gatehouse would be elementary. That would have been the case at my high school.


The armed security guard at Stoneman got $75k a year that's $37.50 an hour not $11 and was totally ineffective.

anon_83081 says

The armed security guard at Stoneman got $75k a year that's $37.50 an hour not $11 and was totally ineffective.

You're confusing a School Resource Officer, a uniformed LEO, with a mere Security Guard. The former has truants to chase, parents to speak to, fights to break up. His job is not to sit at a gatehouse. This one resigned and may not have even been on campus, legit or not legit, since an SRO's duties can take them to a courthouse, residence, or elsewhere off campus.

I spent my Senior Year in Florida and I can tell you SROs are full LEOs, much more expensive than a security guard.

You can't compare what the expense and time of a Full Time Uniformed Police Officer to a Security Guard who stays in one place and checks IDs.

anon_83081 says

What if that huge school is an open air school and circumventing any gatehouse would be elementary.

Then Fix It. Since 9/11 we redesigned a countless facilities across the nation, from railroad terminals to office buildings. Redesigning a School for rudimentary security is a snap for us at this point. Fencing is cheap and easy.

Do you think a complex of 3100+ children, nevermind the adult employees, should have absolutely no gateway/checkpoint and any Tom, Dick, or Harry Visitor that is neither Student, Faculty, or Staff should be able to come and go without any recording of who they were?

Can you think of any similarly sized government (or most private) complex that doesn't have controlled entrances?

Can you waltz right in to a Lockheed-Martin or Apple facility, or a State or Federal Government Building, or a Hospital with half as many people and not show ID?

Cruz was driven to the campus by an Uber Driver. Neither the car was stopped at the non-existent gate, nor did Cruz pass a single staffed checkpoint to identify himself, at any stage.

Then we hear moron remarks from those responsible : "We did all we could."

WTF do they teach Education Admin PhDs? Probably to be extra careful to address people with "Xir/Xe/They".

anon_83081 says

There already is border control so why would 1 argue for something that already exists?

There are already 20,000 gun control laws on the books so why would one argue for something that already exists?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Fencing is cheap and easy.

if someone is determined to shoot up a school I don't think they are going to let a chain link fence stop them.

Sounds like we are going to be deficit spending a trillion dollars per year now. As a country where do you propose we get this money to do this construction and to pay the gate keepers?

I do have a an idea on where to get the money. Tax every gun sale every ammo sale and every gunpowder sale. That's where I think the money should come from.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

You're confusing a School Resource Officer, a uniformed LEO, with a mere Security Guard. The former has truants to chase, parents to speak to, fights to break up. His job is not to sit at a gatehouse. This one resigned and may not have even been on campus, legit or not legit, since an SRO's duties can take them to a courthouse, residence, or elsewhere off campus.

May not have been on campus?
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-shooting-sro-20180222-story.html

The sheriff said video shows Peterson was outside the building for “upwards of four minutes” while students were gunned down inside.

“What I saw was a deputy arrive … take up a position and he never went in,” the sheriff said at a news conference. “There are no words. I mean these families lost their children. We lost coaches,” Israel said.

Wrong again.

anon_9f083 says

“What I saw was a deputy arrive … take up a position and he never went in,” the sheriff said at a news conference. “There are no words. I mean these families lost their children. We lost coaches,” Israel said.

anon_9f083 says

Wrong again.

Right again, you mean. We'll also talk about the meaning of "May".

Anycase, Two (2) "Rights" for me from your own quote:

* Officer was a LEO working for the Sheriff, not a 'security guard' who cost $75k/year So DING! for me.
* He was not in the building at the time, so nobody could have stopped Cruz from entering the building DING
And thus, because there was no security controlling access to the campus or the buildings themselves, Cruz was able to enter and begin firing before encountering security. DING

Of course this LEO will be scapegoated, nevermind it is harder to enter a building not knowing where an active shooter is than to cover a door or hallway and take on an attempted armed intruder.


anon_9f083 says

May not have been on campus?

Does May mean "absolutely was" or "absolutely wasn't"? Please tell me.

anon_9f083 says

if someone is determined to shoot up a school I don't think they are going to let a chain link fence stop them.

Will an Uber Driver ram a chain link fence on behalf of a passenger?

Are there fences other than chain link?

Is it more or less likely someone will be spotted climbing a chain link fence?

If, If, If, If, If.

Tell me, when did Cruz pass a security checkpoint and show ID ? How about the Uber Driver? If the Uber Driver simply drove onto Campus and disgorged a passenger without either him or his passenger being asked for ID, there was no security.

anon_273e3 says

A limit on how much an anon can post, Really?

Get an account. You sound like a few other anons.

the cops knew about this kid and did nothing.
either lack of manpower, incompetence, or both
that's where the preventative focus should be...

email.

Malcolm says

Remember the saying, “He went postal?.” It seems like decades since that happened. An interesting social question is why? Is life easier now as a postal employee? What social phenomenon has made post offices safer and schools more dangerous?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

And thus, because there was no security controlling access to the campus or the buildings themselves, Cruz was able to enter and begin firing before encountering security. DING

And yet again, folks perpetuate the same lie.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Will an Uber Driver ram a chain link fence on behalf of a passenger?

No but a bolt cutters will cut through one, if someone can aquire an AR-15 I don't think they will have any trouble getting bolt cutters.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Are there fences other than chain link?

Sure, of course there are, you said cheap so I thought chain link. Tell me, what kind of cheap fence were you thinking of? Then I can tell you an easy way to circumvent it.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Is it more or less likely someone will be spotted climbing a chain link fence?

Who said anything about climbing it? Moreover if all the students are in class who is going to spot someone jumping a fence. If a security guard how many will be need? And 1 last thing do you think Trump should call for all schools to become mini Auschwitz?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

If the Uber Driver simply drove onto Campus and disgorged a passenger without either him or his passenger being asked for ID, there was no security.

We are all entitled to our own opinion but not our own facts.

BlueSardine says

the cops knew about this kid and did nothing.
either lack of manpower, incompetence, or both
that's where the preventative focus should be...

Are we not capable of implementing multiple corrective actions?

There are a LOT of lies being thrown around this thread by the gun nuts. Below are the facts:

"Marjory Stoneman Douglas High has fences, gates and emergency procedures to keep students safe, but a determined gunman found a way around them."


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story.html

TwoScoopsPlissken says

anon_8f378 says

So, how exactly is that going to work at 2:50 when 3000 kids are all exiting the school through those doors? Make every kid line up and exit though the same exit in single file through a turnstile?

What, people employed at Los Alamos or 1 Infinite Loop don't mostly leave around 5:00PM? Maybe the National Labs or Apple shouldn't bother having security at all, then.

I'm sure that won't result in any problems. Nevermind shooters, but crazy ranters ("iPhones zapped my brain!"), disgruntled employees, ex-lovers, thieves and spies...

You want to ban all guns, but are opposed to having a turnstile that's present in a good deal many everyday situations, such as a subway?

Hey, sometimes a bunch of flights land at the same time and 1000s of people exit the terminal. Let's let them walk the wrong way through the TSA Checkpoint, we can't possibly channel them through a...

Bad example being that TSA has never stopped anyone from doing anything other than bringing their own bottle of water to avoid paying 4$ for one

anon_cf6c6 says

anon_8f378 says

I'm not trying to be difficult--just trying to show you the real world reasons why your ideas haven't been and probably cannot feasibly be implemented.

How difficult would it be to implement retired LEO's or retired military to guard schools during the day?

Who in their right mind would want their kids around retired LEO a/o retired military, armed at school?

They’d end up causing more harm

CBOEtrader says

I'd bet parents with concealed carry permits would do it for free

No thanks keep those nut jobs away from our kids and schools

Our high school has an actual on duty police officer working the school every day, I assumed that was the norm everywhere now

errc says

CBOEtrader says

I'd bet parents with concealed carry permits would do it for free

No thanks keep those nut jobs away from our kids and schools

Our high school has an actual on duty police officer working the school every day, I assumed that was the norm everywhere now

Yes but it sounds like some here want a gate keeper an armed guard and an Auschwitz style fence around every school campus. Still not sure if this includes Universities or not.

errc says

Our high school has an actual on duty police officer working the school every day, I assumed that was the norm everywhere now

Sounds like Stoneman did too. He just sat outside waiting for the shooting to end.

But, let's get more of these guys at every school! If we have enough of them sitting outside waiting, I'm sure the mass killings will stop.

anon_8f378 says

errc says

Our high school has an actual on duty police officer working the school every day, I assumed that was the norm everywhere now

Sounds like Stoneman did too. He just sat outside waiting for the shooting to end.

But, let's get more of these guys at every school! If we have enough of them sitting outside waiting, I'm sure the mass killings will stop.

Exactly,

We need to ban AR15s and write NEW gun laws, that will definitely stop these shootings, right, since lazy, coward police officers can't do the job ?

errc says

Who in their right mind would want their kids around retired LEO a/o retired military, armed at school?

Who in their right mind would want their kid around LEO or military at a NFL game, a NBA game, A large public fair, a airport, a bank, visiting the White House, etc.


errc says

Our high school has an actual on duty police officer working the school every day, I assumed that was the norm everywhere now

So are you saying a retired LEO or retired military isn't experienced enough but an actual on duty officer is?

errc says

Bad example being that TSA has never stopped anyone from doing anything other than bringing their own bottle of water to avoid paying 4$ for one

Errc, not the point I was going for. The point was you can control entrances into areas while huge numbers of people are attempting to exit that same area.

The effectiveness of the TSA as they conduct checks was, I assure you, not a point I was trying to make.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

errc says

Bad example being that TSA has never stopped anyone from doing anything other than bringing their own bottle of water to avoid paying 4$ for one

Errc, not the point I was going for. The point was you can control entrances into areas while huge numbers of people are attempting to exit that same area.

The effectiveness of the TSA as they conduct checks was, I assure you, not a point I was trying to make.

You used TSA as an example and I pointed out that they are an absolute failure. They don’t stop anything as proved by numerous studies

So the logical next question you should be asking yourself is, why would it be different this time?

I’ve asked this multiple times about The Wall as well, but nobody has the courage to attempt to answer

TwoScoopsPlissken says

The point was you can control entrances into areas while huge numbers of people are attempting to exit that same area.

Have you been to an airport? There is a (sometimes multiple TSA agents) who only watch people exit through a well defined wide doorway. They are not watching people enter. They are not checking badges.

Are you now proposing multiple guards? Some to watch the exit areas in addition to those watching the entrances?

errc says

So the logical next question you should be asking yourself is, why would it be different this time?

I’ve asked this multiple times about The Wall as well, but nobody has the courage to attempt to answer

All I know is, if I owned construction companies and I was president I'd be hell bent on building a wall too.

If a bid ever gets won it will be interesting to see how the money leads back to Trump, maybe it won't but if I was a betting man I bet it would.

anon_8f378 says

TwoScoopsPlissken says

The point was you can control entrances into areas while huge numbers of people are attempting to exit that same area.

Have you been to an airport? There is a (sometimes multiple TSA agents) who only watch people exit through a well defined wide doorway. They are not watching people enter. They are not checking badges.

Are you now proposing multiple guards? Some to watch the exit areas in addition to those watching the entrances?

To me it's sounding like mini Auschwitz. Complete with tall fences and guard towers. It would have to be assumed every car entering campus is a potential threat and must go through x-ray machines, and every student strip searched upon entering campus

anon_217df says

To me it's sounding like mini Auschwitz. Complete with tall fences and guard towers. It would have to be assumed every car entering campus is a potential threat and must go through x-ray machines, and every student strip searched upon entering campus

We may need a SWAT team on call 24/7 at each school with full body armor and an SUV.

anon_8f378 says

Have you been to an airport? There is a (sometimes multiple TSA agents) who only watch people exit through a well defined wide doorway. They are not watching people enter. They are not checking badges.

Wait, people without badges or tickets can just waltz through into the terminal at US airports?

News to me.

anon_217df says

To me it's sounding like mini Auschwitz. Complete with tall fences and guard towers. It would have to be assumed every car entering campus is a potential threat and must go through x-ray machines, and every student strip searched upon entering campus

'

Yep, your local Federal Building, Apple, the Airport... just like Auschwitz. More security for adults, no security for kids.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Wait, people without badges or tickets can just waltz through into the terminal at US airports?

News to me.

Ah, I see where you are confused. Those people watching the exit are DIFFERENT than the TSA agents that check ID, X-Ray luggage, scan people.

Now we're talking about tens of security guards per school.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Yep, your local Federal Building, Apple, the Airport... just like Auschwitz. More security for adults, no security for kids.

It's funny that the people who are supposedly all about civil liberties are the ones asking for an authoritarian, police state.

anon_8f378 says

It's funny that the people who are supposedly all about civil liberties are the ones asking for an authoritarian, police state.

Again, the exaggeration is out of control.

There were no entrance checkpoints at the school. There was no dedicated individual watching the entrance or exit points and checking IDs of visitors. You CAN have large numbers of people exiting a building while others are entering.

It does not take 10 security guards to watch an access point.

anon_8f378 says

It's funny that the people who are supposedly all about civil liberties are the ones asking for an authoritarian, police state.

Yeah, it's not authoritarian to repeal one of the original amendments making up the Bill of Rights, but it's authoritarian to check IDs for visitors wanting to enter a school.

Beam me up, Scotty.