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2nd Amendment Discussion


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2018 Feb 17, 11:51am   237,060 views  1,259 comments

by CajunSteve   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

With all the talk about the school shootings, let's take a look at what the 2nd Amendment actually says:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Couple things to note in there:

1. The specific mention of a militia being the reason for the need to bear arms.
2. The 2nd Amendment never mentions the word gun at all.

So, what exactly is the definition of "arms"?

In 1755 Dr. Johnson’s Dictionary of the English Language was first published. It defined “arms” as “weapons of offence, or armour of defence.”

Weapons of offence would seem to include pretty much anything and everything, from knives to nuclear weapons. The US has already seen fit to ban some weapons of offence so the 2nd Amendment clearly has not been interpreted strictly as meaning that the US cannot ban all "arms". Therefore, the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee citizens the right to own whatever weapons they choose.

So it then becomes a question of which weapons should be banned, which should be strictly regulated, and which should be lightly regulated or not at all. Like anything else, we should weigh an individual's right with society's right. When looked at in that manner, it becomes very difficult to justify why fully automatic or semi automatic rifles should be allowed. What purpose do they serve an individual? And why would that purpose outweigh the extreme damage those weapons have cased society??

Patrick thinks the Chamber of Commerce is the worst organization, and he may be correct, but the NRA is not far behind.



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823   richwicks   2022 Oct 13, 1:43am  

Patrick says

richwicks says


I'd rather have a .22 hand gun than a .44 magnum. Fire one of those in the dark, and your only senses that still work are your eyes, once it recovers from the muzzle flash in a few seconds...


Fact check: true

https://patrick.net/post/1314395/2018-03-13-trying-out-a-44-magnum


Absolutely true. A .22 will make your ears ring, a 0.44 will make you temporarily deaf. As a (stupid) kid I'd fire weapons without ear protection, and think it was funny my ears would ring afterward, then I hit 15 and started to realize it could have long term consequences.

Really, I think the best protection against a home intruder is a shotgun with bird shot. It probably won't kill them, but it sure as hell will hurt them. You don't have to be accurate either, and you CAN'T be accurate. A slug will blow a hole in them. If you hit them, it doesn't much matter where, they're going to bleed out. With a home intruder, I almost would prefer a lead or steel pipe over a gun, as long as the intruder is not armed. I'm kind of afraid of guns, because I've handled them and shot them. A slug, even if you hit the person, might go right through them and then god knows where.

My brother used a 0.44 shotgun to strike a telephone pole, because, he was my stupider older brother. It blew a hole clean through it. Fortunately the pole didn't collapse, but he covered it up by fitting back the wood chips he blew out of it. I wonder if it still stands? He was always a reckless asshole. He was probably a vandal as well. I hate vandals.
824   Eric Holder   2022 Oct 13, 1:39pm  

(Reuters) - A federal judge in West Virginia has ruled that a federal ban on possessing a gun with its serial number removed is unconstitutional, the first such ruling since the U.S. Supreme Court dramatically expanded gun rights in June.

U.S. District Judge Joseph Goodwin in Charleston found Wednesday that the law was not consistent with the United States' "historical tradition of firearm regulation," the new standard laid out by the Supreme Court in its landmark ruling.

The decision came in a criminal case charging a man, Randy Price, with illegally possessing a gun with the serial number removed that was found in his car. The judge dismissed that charge, though Price is still charged with illegally possessing the gun after being convicted of previous felonies.

A lawyer for Price and a spokesperson for the office of U.S. Attorney William Thompson in Charleston, which is prosecuting the case, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

The federal law in question prohibits anyone from transporting a gun with the serial number removed across state lines, or from possessing such a gun if it has ever been transported across state lines.

Serial numbers, first required by the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, are intended to prevent illegal gun sales and make it easier to solve crimes by allowing individual guns to be traced.

Price argued that the law is unconstitutional in light of the Supreme Court's June 24 ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc v. Bruen. That ruling held that under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the government cannot restrict the right to possess firearms unless the restriction is consistent with historical tradition.

Bruen said serial numbers were not required when the Second Amendment was adopted in 1791, and were not widely used until 1968, putting them outside that tradition.

(Reporting By Brendan Pierson in New York, Editing by Alexia Garamfalvi and Nick Zieminski)
825   Eric Holder   2022 Oct 13, 1:45pm  

richwicks says


RWSGFY says

Weird choice of a weapon to say the least: if you carry a big effin pistol, why have it in .22?

So you don't go temporarily deaf once you fire it. A .22 is not BB gun. Unless you hit a lucky spot, it's not going to kill a person right away, but it's a serious disabler.

I'd rather have a .22 hand gun than a .44 magnum.


False dichotomy: the Beretta is not even avalable in .44 magnum (which is a revolver caliber anyway). It was originally created as a "wonder nine" and is perfectly manageable, mild-shooting even, and has a very respectable 17-round capacity in it's original chambering. And no, .22 is not considered as a "serious disabler" by anyone. That's why no police department would have it as a duty caliber. Being a rimfire cartridge it's also relatively unreliable which is not a good trait in a defense caliber.
826   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Oct 13, 1:45pm  

richwicks says

RWSGFY says


Weird choice of a weapon to say the least: if you carry a big effin pistol, why have it in .22?


So you don't go temporarily deaf once you fire it. A .22 is not BB gun. Unless you hit a lucky spot, it's not going to kill a person right away, but it's a serious disabler.

I'd rather have a .22 hand gun than a .44 magnum. Fire one of those in the dark, and your only senses that still work are your eyes, once it recovers from the muzzle flash in a few seconds...


after a day of training with carbine, i lose hearing for good 5 to 6 hours.
827   Eric Holder   2022 Oct 13, 1:47pm  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

after a day of training with carbine, i lose hearing for good 5 to 6 hours.


Your ear protection equipment is inadequate then.
828   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Oct 13, 1:49pm  

Eric Holder says


FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says


after a day of training with carbine, i lose hearing for good 5 to 6 hours.


Your ear protection equipment is inadequate then.



i don’t wear any. in real combat no time to get comfortable. i train for combat
829   Eric Holder   2022 Oct 13, 1:55pm  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

Eric Holder says


FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says



after a day of training with carbine, i lose hearing for good 5 to 6 hours.


Your ear protection equipment is inadequate then.



i don’t wear any. in real combat no time to get comfortable


Real military guys in real combat wear ear and eye protection all the time. And what if you don't ever get to go into real battle but still go deaf? Would it be worth it?
830   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Oct 13, 2:04pm  

Eric Holder says

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says


Eric Holder says



FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says




after a day of training with carbine, i lose hearing for good 5 to 6 hours.


Your ear protection equipment is inadequate then.




i don’t wear any. in real combat no time to get comfortable



Real military guys in real combat wear ear and eye protection all the time. And what if you don't ever get to go into real battle but still go deaf? Would it be worth it?


you probably right, i should mix it up just to not stress ears too much. our militia group isn’t too sophisticated, we communicate by shouting still, so got to figure out how to make communication work with ear protection.
831   richwicks   2022 Oct 13, 8:32pm  

Eric Holder says

False dichotomy: the Beretta is not even avalable in .44 magnum (which is a revolver caliber anyway). It was originally created as a "wonder nine" and is perfectly manageable, mild-shooting even, and has a very respectable 17-round capacity in it's original chambering. And no, .22 is not considered as a "serious disabler" by anyone. That's why no police department would have it as a duty caliber. Being a rimfire cartridge it's also relatively unreliable which is not a good trait in a defense caliber.


I've shot a lot of weapons, but I'm no expert in them. You may be correct.

My main concern about defending a property in the dark is not being temporarily blinded, and not being temporarily deaf. Generally you don't want to kill, and making an audible sound of cocking a gun will dissuade most assholes but if you're in the country and you have to kill, I've heard of SSS.

Shoot. Shovel. Silence.
832   richwicks   2022 Oct 13, 8:34pm  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

after a day of training with carbine, i lose hearing for good 5 to 6 hours.


This is foolish for you to do. You're going to go deaf.
833   Patrick   2022 Oct 13, 11:03pm  

richwicks says


I think the best protection against a home intruder is a shotgun with bird shot. It probably won't kill them, but it sure as hell will hurt them.


That's my main defense at the moment. I think it probably will kill them at the close range of within a house, but part of the idea is also not to kill any neighbors by accident.

It's pretty deafening as well, but I don't know what to do about that.
834   AD   2022 Oct 14, 12:00am  

I just saw this: https://atlanticfirearms.com/ar15-rifles

$400 for an American made AR 15

Prices for guns and especially ammo have gone down a lot. Cheaper than Dirt website shows more sales now.

.
836   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Oct 14, 6:16am  

do any of you guys know which tracer rounds good for carbine? pricing on them is all over the place.
838   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2022 Oct 15, 8:47pm  

2nd amendment should apply to drone guns IMO.
839   BayArea   2022 Oct 15, 9:38pm  

Patrick says

richwicks says



I think the best protection against a home intruder is a shotgun with bird shot. It probably won't kill them, but it sure as hell will hurt them.


That's my main defense at the moment. I think it probably will kill them at the close range of within a house, but part of the idea is also not to kill any neighbors by accident.

It's pretty deafening as well, but I don't know what to do about that.


What shotgun did you go with?
840   BayArea   2022 Oct 15, 9:39pm  

richwicks says

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says


after a day of training with carbine, i lose hearing for good 5 to 6 hours.


This is foolish for you to do. You're going to go deaf.

100%

I have a family member that’s been losing his hearing over the last decade (gradually) and it’s been particularly difficult on him. Don’t take hearing for granted. Life get significantly harder if you can’t hear what’s around you.
841   AmericanKulak   2022 Oct 15, 9:56pm  

Booger says

If I can't have my own M134, assault rifle, and some RPG's, then freedom has no meaning.

I really want a 12 pounder cannon.
842   Patrick   2022 Oct 15, 10:48pm  

BayArea says


What shotgun did you go with?


Rock Island Armory All Generations Pump-Action Shotgun (AG)

20 gauge, so bigger than a 410 but not as big as a 12 gauge. Idea is that it's light enough that wife can easily use it too.

And it makes that classic ker-chunk sound when you pump it.
844   Patrick   2022 Oct 18, 7:15pm  

https://palexander.substack.com/p/naomi-wolf-stands-up-for-the-second

Naomi Wolf used to be quite the leftist. She has woken up from wokeness.
845   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Oct 18, 8:25pm  

BayArea says

richwicks says


FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says



after a day of training with carbine, i lose hearing for good 5 to 6 hours.


This is foolish for you to do. You're going to go deaf.


100%

I have a family member that’s been losing his hearing over the last decade (gradually) and it’s been particularly difficult on him. Don’t take hearing for granted. Life get significantly harder if you can’t hear what’s around you.


so i did it, i went and got me noise canceling headphones. gonna give those a shot.
847   Onvacation   2022 Oct 23, 8:13am  

AmericanKulak says

I really want a 12 pounder cannon.

BUY ONE!


One like this can be purchased for under ten grand. Balls and powder extra. Wear hearing protection.
850   Eric Holder   2022 Oct 26, 11:26am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says




Yeah, can't afford to shoot that.
851   Eric Holder   2022 Oct 26, 11:29am  

richwicks says

Really, I think the best protection against a home intruder is a shotgun with bird shot. It probably won't kill them, but it sure as hell will hurt them.


It will piss them off, that's all. Bird shot, LOL.
852   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Oct 26, 2:08pm  

Eric Holder says

Al_Sharpton_for_President says





Yeah, can't afford to shoot that.


comes with ammo purchase loan applications
854   Eric Holder   2022 Nov 2, 2:24pm  

I must reiterate again: if you think of self-defense with a shotgun loaded with birdshot - don't. Your opponent will simply remove it from under their skin with tweezers. After they kill you and put that shotgun up to the trigger guard in your arse, that is.
855   AmericanKulak   2022 Nov 2, 2:39pm  

#4 Steel Birdshot - through the denim or 4 layers of T-shirt, most through the pectoral "Ribs" ripping it to shreds; and most of them jangling around the internal organs with a few ending up in the back "Ribs"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF5N5tfMuX4
8 Minutes in for the #4 Steel Birdshot at 7 yards with a 12 ga.

Test #2 with 12ga. and #4 Lead Shot - through the clothes, rib bones, into the heart, few got through the drywall behind - from a few yards. Ideal for home defense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaR1EVybUgc

The surgeon will be plucking them out with a tweezer, over the course of many, many open chest/stomach operations. If by some miracle they live with heart, lungs, kidneys turned to swiss cheese by a shitload of lead or steel balls..

Now if you're shooting somebody 30 yds away, different story.
856   rocketjoe79   2022 Nov 2, 7:56pm  

20 Gauge is almost as effective, lighter, much easier to handle the recoil, especially for females.
858   AmericanKulak   2022 Nov 3, 6:43pm  

rocketjoe79 says

20 Gauge is almost as effective, lighter, much easier to handle the recoil, especially for females.

Agreed. 20 Ga. is the sweet spot and easier on everybody's shoulders after a while.
860   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Nov 6, 7:58am  

just_passing_through says





https://www.pewpewtactical.com/rock-island-vr60-vr80-vrbp100-review/


these carbines are pretty good. have enough setup for attachments, sling, scopes, legs, suppressor.

id get a good scope, once you zero it accuracy goes way up.
861   just_passing_through   2022 Nov 6, 8:02am  

Oh, it's not mine. Saw in on a Sunday Gunday thread and started drooling though.
862   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Nov 6, 8:23am  

just_passing_through says


Oh, it's not mine. Saw in on a Sunday Gunday thread and started drooling though.


ah i see. heres mine i use on field days. very standard carbine. attachments make a difference. rails everywhere make it easy to modify. and the barrel is covered so doesnt get hot to touch, butt can go in and out so easy to adjust for your height. i would recommend those for everyday training. 600ft can hit comfortably.

2 point sling for easy shoulder carry helps a lot during field days. many guys prefer 1 point slings though.

standard nato rounds, easy to get. this one can shoot several types.



thats my recommendation. any decent gun shop will let you buy these if you arent in a blue state. and you just get attachments as you need them.

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