patrick.net

Sensationalized student gun deaths make for a scary read and put everyone on edge.
Most could have been prevented with a more aggressive approach to social media postings and police interactions with the perps prior to the main event.
Maybe it's time to put some well funded resources into a new department that specifically targets the above and proactively responds before things get out of hand...

Patrick says

The 2nd Amendment exists exactly in order to protect that right to revolution against an oppressive elite, so no, the 2nd Amendment should not be repealed.

The personal destruction alcohol provides is an example to the state of what could happen with additional mind altering substances.
So they tend to go on the offensive against legalizing more of the same, regardless of whether it is better or worse than alcohol.

errc says

You tell me? Why is the State so tyrannically oppressive over plant based medicine?

This.
drB6 says

I do not really believe whatever Govt tells me as they are well-known liars

Strategist says

Government does not go after you unless you are breaking the law and are a threat to others

That is demonstrably false.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/botched-atlanta-drug-raid-killed-92-year-old-woman-family-awarded-49-million/

Kathyrn Johnston was 92-years-old when police carrying out a drug raid kicked in her door. She took a shot at the cops, and was gunned down by the return fire.

Now, the city of Atlanta has agreed to pay Johnston's family $4.9 million for her death in the botched 2006 raid.

Police had been acting on an informant's claim that he had bought narcotics at Johnston's home. But no drugs were found, and officers then planted drugs that had been recovered from a different raid.

There are hundreds of botched drug raid descriptions on internets, where police confuse addresses and burst into wrong place, occasionally killing innocent occupants, including kids and elderly.

I would award this pistol-packing grandmother a Congressional Medal of Honor and execute the guilty cops.

Edit: and after this and many other similar occasions perhaps we should start a movement to take guns away from cops.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/recreational-marijuana-faq
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/alcohol-effects#2

Who is in a position to say what should be prohibited.
What kind of power do you want your government to have?

errc says

In what ways is Cannabis similar to alcohol?

Should alcohol be prohibited?

BlueSardine says

What kind of power do you want your government to have?

Government should have no power to determine what substances I put in my body (after I turn 18) and I should have no power to demand money from government for ill effects from using those substances. Otherwise we can say that government owns my body. MY BODY MY CHOICE!!!

Nope.

I don't trust concentrated power and the ballot box has failed before. When that happens, the ammo box is the last resort.

HappyGilmore says

I don't believe anyone is arguing for the government to ban all firearms. That's a scare tactic used by the NRA and gun nuts.

drB6 says

Strategist says

Government does not go after you unless you are breaking the law and are a threat to others

That is demonstrably false.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/botched-atlanta-drug-raid-killed-92-year-old-woman-family-awarded-49-million/

Kathyrn Johnston was 92-years-old when police carrying out a drug raid kicked in her door. She took a shot at the cops, and was gunned down by the return fire.

Now, the city of Atlanta has agreed to pay Johnston's family $4.9 million for her death in the botched 2006 raid.

Police had been acting on an informant's claim that he had bought narcotics at Johnston's home. But no drugs were found, and officers then planted drugs that had been recovered from a different raid.

1. Mistakes will happen.
2. She had a gun to defend herself. Did it work against law enforcement?

I've spoken to my liberal friends at length about this issue.

The common belief that they seem to share is that the police will be there to protect them and the US government would never ever turn on them.

At the next sentence they will tell you that cops are racist and Trump is the next Hitler.

Strategist says

1. Mistakes will happen.
2. She had a gun to defend herself. Did it work against law enforcement?

Sadly, there is a huge number of MISTAKES, which often are deadly. Cops typically get a slap on their wrist for these "mistakes". Another article was talking about 7-yr old kid who was shot by police in a drug raid on wrong address.

With respect to grandmother, I admire her and her actions. While her resistance did not work out properly, if everyone would shoot at intruding cops, they would rethink their ways of operation.

drB6 says

Police had been acting on an informant's claim that he had bought narcotics at Johnston's home.

Strategist says

Mistakes will happen.

drB6 says

adly, there is a huge number of MISTAKES, which often are deadly.

Police have over 63 MILLION contacts with the public every year. Read that again. 63 MILLION!!
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/pbtss11.pdf

The odds are, some of them will turn into a mistake. Unfortunately, the media loves to jump on the mistakes without ever mentioning all the good things cops do or how many contacts DON'T end up as mistakes.

Focusing on "needles" again instead of "haystacks".

Strategist says

She had a gun to defend herself. Did it work against law enforcement?

She needs better training and a AR15.

How's that?

errc says

patrick i marked another Sniper personal attack as personal, and it magically reappeared, again. What gives?

@errc moderators can either approve comments in moderation, or delete them. So some moderator must have approved it. There are 5 moderators.

Please do continue to mark personal comments. Anyone can do that, unless they start abusing it.

errc says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

FortWayne says

American revolution worked just fine without military anything. Defeated a professional army.

Yep, the best army in the world at the time.

You realize that it’s 2018?

British said the same thing in 1776. And lost...

BayArea says

I've spoken to my liberal friends at length about this issue.

The common belief that they seem to share is that the police will be there to protect them and the US government would never ever turn on them.

At the next sentence they will tell you that cops are racist and Trump is the next Hitler.

Most leftists are logically hypocritical on most issues.

Leftist: Racism is bad.
Also Leftist: Affirmative action hurting asians is a-okay!

Leftist: We don't want to take your guns.
Also Leftist: Repeal the 2nd amendment!

Leftist: Socialism works because people are not greedy.
Also Leftist: Capitalism doesn't work because people are greedy.

On and on. Leftism, no even once.

drB6 says

With respect to grandmother, I admire her and her actions. While her resistance did not work out properly, if everyone would shoot at intruding cops, they would rethink their ways of operation.

If any one shoots at cops, they will be shot to death. The cops will be doing the right thing.

BayArea says

I've spoken to my liberal friends at length about this issue.

The common belief that they seem to share is that the police will be there to protect them and the US government would never ever turn on them.

At the next sentence they will tell you that cops are racist and Trump is the next Hitler.

They are dead wrong. Law enforcement will be there to protect you.
eg Two weeks ago I was with my son going home when we were rear ended by a hit and run driver. We pulled over to the side of the road and called 911. In 5 minutes a cop arrived and the first thing he asked us "Are you alright?" He asked us to pull into a parking lot nearby, and wait for an officer who will take a report. He and other cops went after the hit and run scumbag. In another 5 minutes the second cop arrived and again made sure we were OK before proceeding with the report.
Thank You law enforcement, thank you.

errc says

We can only hope that the anti-American right wingers get their comeuppance for devolving this once great nation into a police state

You're confused. It's the left wing radical Liberals who want more government controls, a nanny state, and repeal of the 2nd amendment. Did you miss all the protests and marches on Saturday?

Strategist says

drB6 says

With respect to grandmother, I admire her and her actions. While her resistance did not work out properly, if everyone would shoot at intruding cops, they would rethink their ways of operation.

If any one shoots at cops, they will be shot to death. The cops will be doing the right thing.

In this case, cops arguably did the wrong thing. First, they entered the house based on wrong intelligence, e.i. violated rights of that grandmother. Second, they planted drugs on her after they realized their mistake.

She had all rights for armed resistance. She had done nothing wrong, and there were unknown armed people at her door.

Strategist says

They are dead wrong. Law enforcement will be there to protect you.

Really?

Is that what happened in Parkland High School?

Strategist says

In 5 minutes a cop arrived

Strategist says

before proceeding with the report.

and what did he do? He took a report AFTER the fact.

Strategist says

In another 5 minutes the second cop arrived

It's a good thing it wasn't an active shooter in the other car, you both would have been long dead.

drB6 says

Strategist says

drB6 says

With respect to grandmother, I admire her and her actions. While her resistance did not work out properly, if everyone would shoot at intruding cops, they would rethink their ways of operation.

If any one shoots at cops, they will be shot to death. The cops will be doing the right thing.

In this case, cops arguably did the wrong thing. First, they entered the house based on wrong intelligence, e.i. violated rights of that grandmother. Second, they planted drugs on her after they realized their mistake.

She had all rights for armed resistance. She had done nothing wrong, and there were unknown armed people at her door.

I'm not disputing the fact that cops screwed up in this case. They will screw up again.
My point......resisting law enforcement with a gun will only get you shot. Use it to defend yourself against real criminals.

Strategist says

They are dead wrong. Law enforcement will be there to protect you.

There are two issues with that statement.

First, police does not have a constitutional duty to protect us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

This is a very illuminating article.

Second, IF we have bad cops (and we have quite a lot of them), they will usually be let off with a slap on the wrist and will not be punished. They will even keep their pensions. I follow these cases in my city in TX and cops get off punishment-free after kicking crap out of a teenager, or shooting guy in his own driveway and beating up his mother etc. Democrat- and Democratic-mayor supported police union hires the best attorney in town and recording of beating goes away. Cops go free while mayor bloviates about police violence while supporting the union who got cops off.

Strategist says

They are dead wrong. Law enforcement will be there to protect you.
eg Two weeks ago I was with my son going home when we were rear ended by a hit and run driver. We pulled over to the side of the road and called 911. In 5 minutes a cop arrived and the first thing he asked us "Are you alright?" He asked us to pull into a parking lot nearby, and wait for an officer who will take a report. He and other cops went after the hit and run scumbag. In another 5 minutes the second cop arrived and again made sure we were OK before proceeding with the report.
Thank You law enforcement, thank you.

Law Enforcement will be there for you sometimes. I respect law enforcement, and the job they do (I have law officers in my family), but they cannot and will not be there for your everytime.



Here's an article about the death of one of my closest friend's nieces.
http://katu.com/news/local/woman-shot-at-se-portland-home-domestic-violence-team-investigates

Her estranged boyfriend came to her home, confronted her and shot her to death (she did die from her wounds even though the article doesn't state her condition at the hospital). The police only came AFTER a neighbor heard the gun shots. They came and cleaned up, but far too late for them to come and save her.

In the SAME CITY, this also happened.
http://www.kptv.com/story/32309669/woman-shoots-and-kills-unknown-man-in-her-southeast-portland-home

A mother of two young children (5 and 10) was confronted by a 59 year old mentally unstable man who was HIDING IN ONE OF HER KID's bedrooms. She was armed with a handgun and shot him dead when he became aggressive. Had she not been armed, would she have been saved by police? Maybe if they were right around the corner and got there in a minute? But more than likely not, and this woman and her children would have either been dead or held hostage.

Strategist says

They are dead wrong. Law enforcement will be there to protect you.
eg Two weeks ago I was with my son going home when we were rear ended by a hit and run driver. We pulled over to the side of the road and called 911. In 5 minutes a cop arrived and the first thing he asked us "Are you alright?" He asked us to pull into a parking lot nearby, and wait for an officer who will take a report. He and other cops went after the hit and run scumbag. In another 5 minutes the second cop arrived and again made sure we were OK before proceeding with the report.
Thank You law enforcement, thank you.

What did you expect them to do differently?

Strategist says

My point......resisting law enforcement with a gun will only get you shot. Use it to defend yourself against real criminals.

True. However, if someone knocks your door out at night while you are half-asleep it is very likely that you will shoot as you will not be able to understand if they are criminals or cops. Police should use unannounced visits only in cases where it is absolutely necessary, and not in minor drug busts.

Sniper says

Really?

Is that what happened in Parkland High School?

Whew. Oh Snap.

drB6 says

However, if someone knocks your door out at night while you are half-asleep it is very likely that you will shoot as you will not be able to understand if they are criminals or cops.

We had a situation like this locally in a rural area. Cops responded to a report of a break-in and 911 hang up. The dispatcher gave them an address. When the cops got to the house, they knocked on the front door. No answer.

They walked around the back of the house and saw a guy coming at them through a sliding door with a shotgun. The cops and the guy both fired, and the guy got hit and was sent to the hospital. He survived.

After the fact, they found out the dispatcher sent the cops to the wrong house. The cops weren't charged, as it was ruled a "self defense" shooting by them.

Goran_K says

HappyGilmore says

I don't believe anyone is arguing for the government to ban all firearms. That's a scare tactic used by the NRA and gun nuts.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment isn't the same as taking all your guns away.

HappyGilmore says

Repealing the 2nd Amendment isn't the same as taking all your guns away.

That's what the Brady Campaign wants people to believe.

2A supporters know better than to believe that fantasy.

Goran_K says

That's what the Brady Campaign wants people to believe.

2A supporters know better than to believe that fantasy.

No, that is a fact.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment is factually not the same as taking guns away.

HappyGilmore says

No, that is a fact.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment is factually not the same as taking guns away.

No, it's not a fact. In fact it's a gross lie that would lead to millions of deaths. I can prove it.

Would you support private AR15 ownership if the 2nd amendment were repealed? Non-criminals, non-psychos. Would you support it?

Goran_K says

No, it's not a fact. In fact it's a gross lie that would lead to millions of deaths.

The 2nd won't be repealed anyway.

No, it is absolutely a fact.

A repeal of the 2nd Amendment would take zero guns away.

HappyGilmore says

No, it is absolutely a fact.

A repeal of the 2nd Amendment would take zero guns away.

Would you support private AR15 ownership if the 2nd amendment were repealed? Non-criminals, non-psychos. Would you support it?

Goran_K says

Would you support private AR15 ownership if the 2nd amendment were repealed? Non-criminals, non-psychos. Would you support it?

Irrelevant.

HappyGilmore says

Irrelevant.

Thanks for proving my point.

Goran_K says

Thanks for proving my point.

Was your point that you're factually incorrect?

Then, you're welcome.

HappyGilmore says

Was your point that you're factually incorrect?

Then, you're welcome.

No, that "repealing the 2nd amendment" wouldn't mean having to give up your guns.

We know the truth. That's why the anti-2A movement gets stone walled all the time, even when Obama and crew were in charge.

People would have to be idiots to believe that vile lie.

Goran_K says

No, that the "repealing the 2nd amendment" wouldn't mean having to give up your guns.

There is a difference between an opinion and a fact.

The fact is that repealing the 2nd Amendment would not take a single gun away from anyone.

Goran's opinion is that if the 2nd Amendment were to get repealed, the majority of people might vote to create regulations on gun ownership.

Hope that helps the understanding of fact vs. opinion.

HappyGilmore says

There is a difference between an opinion and a fact.

The fact is that repealing the 2nd Amendment would not take a single gun away from anyone.

Goran's opinion is that if the 2nd Amendment were to get repealed, the majority of people might vote to create regulations on gun ownership.

Hope that helps the understanding of fact vs. opinion.

Then why the need to repeal the 2nd amendment?

@Patrick

Instead of a "personal" button, can you install a "troll" button?

It would really get much more usage.