patrick.net

Weather is NOT climate!
Climate is the history of weather

A fluke means nothing. Average over a reasonable period of time means something.

drB6 says

A fluke means nothing. Average over a reasonable period of time means something.

Then why did they change it from global warming to climate change?

This is funny because last year the fluke was that there had been no snow in Chicago, of course it was attributed to global warming, I mean, climate change.

lostand confused says

Then why did they change it from global warming to climate change?

Politicking, probably.

Onvacation says

Climate is the history of weather

So “climate change” means changing the history of weather? How would you do that? A time machine? Sounds as plausible as anything else the “climate scientists” say.

lostand confused says

Coldest April in Chicago in 130 years-thanks Global warming!

Despite the very deceptive name global means across the globe. This is why it's not called chicago. warming.

Didn't you know global warming can mean any temperature change at all!? We're all going to die!!!

Quigley says

So “climate change” means changing the history of weather? How would you do that?

There was a time when the alarmists predicted a hockey stick spike of multiple degrees. Since that did not happen they changed the story to one more degree by the end of the century will be a catastrophe. Now that we are going into a solar minimum the new story I hear is we have a couple decade reprieve to eliminate co2 before the heating comes back with a vengeance.

Onvacation says

There was a time when the alarmists predicted a hockey stick spike of multiple degrees. Since that did not happen they changed the story to one more degree by the end of the century will be a catastrophe. Now that we are going into a solar minimum the new story I hear is we have a couple decade reprieve to eliminate co2 before the heating comes back with a vengeance.

If we separate facts from BS, then we get the following:

1. Some warming is real - measured temperatures have been rising. This is a FACT, and a few fringe outlets saying that "all temp measurements have been faked" can be safely ignored. Basically, warmer Earth can not be argued with.
2. Interpretation as to WHY the temperatures have been rising are THEORIES, and these can be disputed. Perhaps some of T increase comes from solar activity, some from CO2 emissions or other human activity, some from unknown factors. Given (usually wrong) weather forecasts, I doubt that climate models can be taken too seriously at this point. However, any massive human-caused change in environment (such as CO2 emissions) will result in some change in climate.

drB6 says

fringe outlets saying that "all temp measurements have been faked"

Who says that?
It is well known that the old temperature records have been "adjusted" by the alarmists to mask previous natural variation and state that the temperature is at an "unprecedented high" . Remember the little ice age?drB6 says

massive human-caused change in environment (such as CO2 emissions) will result in some change in climate.

Probably. Was it considered natural or manmade when the California fires released more pollution, including the deadly co2, in 2 days than all of California for a year?
drB6 says

I doubt that climate models can be taken too seriously at this point.

Agreed! or the alarmists who promote such models.

bob2356 says

Despite the very deceptive name global means across the globe. This is why it's not called chicago. warming

Global warming except in places where it si colder-oh wait lets just call it climate change-just like gender is not what you are born-you can 54 genders-LOL!

Manbearpig! Manbearpig!

Weather is only evidence for global warming if it's hotter. If it's cooler, then weather != climate

LEt me know when we have an entire season where the arctic average is colder than usual. Then I'll let out a sigh of relief that just possibly the denialists are right.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php Even if we could have one year where the graph looks like say 1994, I'd be happy. Click on different years.

Man that was a wierd spike back in February.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

https://mashable.com/2018/02/26/arctic-heat-wave-north-pole-february-sea-ice/#7kstncIQRkq3

By the way, they said that spike above freezing in february in the arctic, was to the warmest it's been there in 2000 years.

marcus says

they said that spike above freezing in february in the arctic, was to the warmest it's been there in 2000 years.

Unprecedented!

It was a different article that mentioned the 2000 years. But I guess that number get's thrown around in reference to general trends in the arctic, that is that that generally such warm temperatures there haven't been seen in 2000 years.

Nothing to worry about though. No biggie. In fact look ! It's cold out today ! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !

marcus says

It was a different article that mentioned the 2000 years. But I guess that number get's thrown around in reference to general trends in the arctic, that is that that generally such warm temperatures there haven't been seen in 2000 years.

Nothing to worry about though. No biggie

So when Christ walked around the earth- 2,000 years ago mankind had massive industries causing global warming ? How did it warm up then?

I would have expected no less.

Tim Aurora says

Because of people like you who do not understand global warming. The average sea temperature over the year is increasing causing a different "climate" if you will .

Nope because alarmist frauds couldn't explain away their delusional theories and justify their tax increase policies to fund the pensions.

Wow. New low.

marcus says

Wow. New low

Why-you think all that billions in taxes will affect climate change or just fill the pensions of fat cat bureaucrats while they dine on caviar in 5 star hotels on the public dime while lecturing us middle class about the evil 1%.
The evil democrats game is getting old-though they still have enough people believe their crap.

lostand confused says

The evil democrats game is getting old-though they still have enough people believe their crap.

You mean like all the stupid scientists that come out of schools like, MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Cal Tech, Oxford, Cambridge etc. ? Yes, the evil democrats have really pulled on over on those dumb ass "book larnin" folks. IF only those scientists were paying more attention to Brietbart and infowars.

What are these billions in taxes being spent on climate change ?

Are you talking about the money that will have to be spent in the future as a result of climate change being denied for too long ?

marcus says

What are these billions in taxes being spent on climate change ?

That was the proposal-raise taxes for global warming. Where do you think that money will go?

It's fine to raise awareness of potential problems. What's not ok is to postulate that the glaciers will have all melt within 5 years and introduce draconian taxes and harass Joe Schmoe with an utterly unreliable mathematical model.

mell says

What's not ok is to postulate that the glaciers will have all melt within 5 years

Nobody did that. You might have heard someone suggest that it was was possible. Nobody really thought that the glaciers would probably be gone in five years, which is what postulating it would mean. It would mean taking it as fact that it was going to happen. (yes, I know Gore quoted someone saying glaciers could possibly be gone as soon as 2014), get's translated by the RW dimbulbs to be that Gore swears that all glaciers already have completely melted.)

I do take it as fact that warming is occurring and that policies should reflect that. Meanwhile Trump wants to bring coal back strong, and coal mining jobs (LOL), supposedly.

Clean coal !!

He's such a fucking liar.

THe kind of leader I would want would be investing in thorium nuclear reactors NOW ! But that's helping the future. LEt's not do that. I'm selfish, and I'll be dead in the future. Let's let some other assholes argue in the future about what could have been done. Fuck those people in the future.

lostand confused says

bob2356 says

Despite the very deceptive name global means across the globe. This is why it's not called chicago. warming

Global warming except in places where it si colder-o

Do you suppose there might a place on the planet that are getting a month that is the warmest in 130 years while chicago is getting a month the coldest? OMG say it ain't so joe. That global shit is soooo confusing.

mell says

harass Joe Schmoe with an utterly unreliable mathematical model.

WOuld it be harrassing Jow Schmoe to ask him to click on various years on this site and consider what's happening ?

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

I'll assume that what many get out of that is, "Oh I see the Danes are in on the commie liberal conspiracy."

People talk about "alarmists." If anything, I believe that those who don't want you to be aware of the magnitude of the problem, are being very successful with their disinformation campaign.

Hey, yesterday was a nice day by me in suburban Chicago. Was finally able to get out in the yard and get shit done. So let's not jump the shark on Chicago going into an ice age ;)

I'm all for cleaner fuels, tech, cars, etc. Keep it coming. Heck, legislate it to be mandatory if you want to. If global warming, climate change, ozone hole, Arby's bag on the side of the road is causing our temperature to change, what will actually stop it? There's only one answer (well two with a slight variation of the first) and it will never happen voluntarily.

I get so confused why people always debate/argue over this topic. There's a simple, but controversial solution (that will likely never happen) yet everyone is arguing about temperature and scientist. My one request is that some/all here need to start injecting humor into the topic. Because I've seen this same thread and these same comments 100 times here (and elsewhere) and nothing has changed from any of the parties over the years.

bob2356 says

Do you suppose there might a place on the planet that are getting a month that is the warmest in 130 years while chicago is getting a month the coldest? OMG say it ain't so joe. That global shit is soooo confusing.

Do you suppose that was always the case, nothing new here-LOLZ!!

Tim Aurora says

people like you

No. They renamed it climate change because the earth was not warming as predicted. Now even cold is considered global warming even though the earth is warming very little and MIGHT be cooling.

When the alarmists go ad hom it's because they have no real arguments.

Manhattan and Florida are still above water and the wetbulb death of millions are still alarmist fantasy.

WookieMan says

I get so confused why people always debate/argue over this topic.

IT's because of the wonderful divide and conquer strategy deployed by the oligarchy. All they have to do is get Sean Hannity, Brietbart etc., questioning whether anthropogenic climate change is real. And the whole my team against your team bullshit kicks in.

Of course the goal is protecting the interests of big oil and big coal. If everyone were in agreement, then some of the money that's currently spent on wars or black ops or god knows what, might be invested in transitioning on a massive scale over to safe nuclear power.

Meanwhile Trump wants to lower future car emission standards that were set in the Obama era just to say, "nyea nyea nyea nyea nyea."

bob2356 says

there might a place on the planet that are getting a month that is the warmest in 130 years

Where?
2018 might be the 7th or 8th warmest year on record following 2017 the second or third warmest year on record.
Climate change is real but it might not be getting warmer.

marcus says

People talk about "alarmists." If anything, I believe that those who don't want you to be aware of the magnitude of the problem, are being very successful with their disinformation campaign.

So how big is the problem? When is Florida going under?

Onvacation says

No. They renamed it climate change because the earth was not warming as predicted. Now even cold is considered global warming even though the earth is warming very little ang MIGHT be cooling.

I posted it twice already. Do you dare check it out. http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php It shows every year in the arctic.

Of course warming the whole planet means warming the arctic which in turn means unusual currents and unusual weather patterns.

How much intelligence does it take to rank these in order of importance in reflecting real warming trends occuring or not

1) average temeratures at the poles over time

2) average surface ocean temperatures

3) local weather at specific times.

Onvacation says

MIGHT be cooling

Again. Give me one year like 1994 (click link), that I might delude myself too.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

Onvacation says

So how big is the problem? When is Florida going under?

I guess if nobody can tell you exactly what's going to happen and when, then that means we know absolutely nothing, and that there is no problem. Right ?

transitioning on a massive scale over to safe nuclear power.

You know, nuke power actually does add heat to the global environment. Converting matter to energy on the scale you are talking about generates massive heat at the plant, plus massive heat along the way to users through resistance in the electrical transmission wire. A wind turbine, hydro dam, or solar cells just take energy that was already here and just moves it.

if you really are concerned about global warming, you would be first in line to halt illegal immigration, and be in favor of a non-growing population. Adding more people in a First World country does not just mean more fossil fuel use, but more pollution such as farm fertilizer runoff, trash, and so on.

Meanwhile Trump wants to lower future car emission standards that were set in the Obama era just to say, "nyea nyea nyea nyea nyea."

Is that emission standards or fuel economy standards? The Obama EPA set a CAFE of 54 mpg by 2025. This fuel economy standard is what Trump spoke of changing. This is not a "nyea" moment, but a decision to help US automobile manufacturing and to let American people buy the cars they want by not having a CAFE standard that is too ambitious.

marcus says

Right ?

Right!
If people are telling you the sky is falling and it will all come down by 2015, you question their results.

I hear we have until 2110 now.