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There will be no "Blue Wave", change my mind!


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2018 May 14, 8:51am   79,919 views  699 comments

by Goran_K   ➕follow (4)   💰tip   ignore  



Yesterday former Bill Clinton advisor Dick Morris told radio host on New York's AM 970 that he believes the "blue wave" that Democrats are expecting to give them back the Senate and House will not materialize, and polling has backed him up.

Last week, CNN's mid term poll showed that Democrats only had a 3 point advantage, well within the margin of error, and considering that CNN is known for "oversampling" Democrats in its own polls, this is troubling for the DNC.

Additionally, a recent poll from Reuters (left leaning) has shown that Millennials are leaving the Democrat party in droves. Democrat membership in the 18-34 demographic (the bread and butter of the DNC) dropped 9% over the past 2 years, most of them becoming "independents".

"I think that [Democrats] see fool’s gold in these scandals," Morris said. "They’re putting everything behind the Stormy Daniels scandal and Michael Cohen … and the country doesn’t give a damn."

That's when Morris dropped his prediction.

"There is no blue wave coming," Morris exclaimed. "There is a red wave. And what makes it red is the blood of the Democratic Party."

Here's my official take. I believe the GOP will LOSE seats in the house but will not give it up to the DNC. I believe the GOP will GAIN seats in the senate, keeping their majority. This will mean that Trump will have both houses of congress for his entire term.

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453   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 30, 7:39pm  

socal2 says
What will be the Democrat's excuse if they fail to take the Senate and the Republicans even pick up a few Senate seats?


Why would they need an excuse?
454   krc   2018 Oct 30, 7:53pm  

There is no excuse. Dems never had a chance in the senate. I don't think anyone said otherwise.
455   socal2   2018 Oct 30, 7:56pm  

krc says
There is no excuse. Dems never had a chance in the senate. I don't think anyone said otherwise.


Huh - then what the hell is all this Blue Wave talk about for the last year?

We are to believe that Trump and Republican are so toxic and unpopular - but Republicans pick up Senate seats?
456   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 30, 8:21pm  

HappyGilmore says
This is the biggest indicator that Republicans know they are going to lose--when they start bringing up the illegal voting nonsense..


Yeah, all this Early Voting has me really worried.

All the Republicans seem to be staying home.

That blue wave in swing-state Florida has Republicans up 2% in Early/Mail-in Voting.

TOTAL 2014 Mid Terms


With A Week to Go, 2018 Mid Terms


https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats

Note this only tells us how many people got ballots or early voted by registered party, not who people voted for. And the panhandle, heavily Red with Evangelicals and some military bases, is mostly delayed because of the Hurricane.
457   Shaman   2018 Oct 30, 9:09pm  

socal2 says

I'm in one of those districts with Darrell Issa's open seat. The Democrat Levin is beating Harkey by 10+ points in the polls.


Don’t underestimate the power of the gas tax to get Californians to vote R. Last time the Democrats passed a large gas tax and car registration tax, we recalled the Democrat governor. California hates too much gas tax. A LOT of people who usually sit on the sidelines are getting out to vote specifically to vote down the gas tax. If you think they are going to be kind to the Democrats on the ballot after they cast their vote for Prop 6, you’ve been partaking in too much legal herb.
458   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 5:14pm  

Early voting up among younger voters and women.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/midterms-2018-early-voting-young-100419572.html

Having said that--I think analyzing early voting is a fool's exercise. Early voting data is already reflected in polls and has very little predictive value.
459   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 31, 6:19pm  

Nate Silver is really smoking the funny stuff.

There is very little polling for most House races, and usually godawful small sample sizes. National Polls are totally useless in these district races.
460   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 6:22pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Nate Silver is really smoking the funny stuff.

There is very little polling for most House races, and usually godawful small sample sizes. National Polls are totally useless in these district races.


lol--this is accounted for with his probabilities.

It's funny how the Trump supporters believe Nate when he talks about the Senate, but all of the sudden he's a quack when he talks about the House.

btw-did you see the generic ballot poll with Dems +17?
461   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 31, 6:27pm  

When have I ever believed Nate?

The Senate is just from the polling. Senate races are well polled. Most house races, including some of the alleged toss ups, have very infrequent, and/or miniscule sample sizes, and/or by no-name polling agencies, and/or very dated polls.

Like I said, is Generic Poll +17 D gonna flip WV Blue? Probably not.
462   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 6:34pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Like I said, is Generic Poll +17 D gonna flip WV Blue? Probably not.


It will have 1 blue Senator.

Some Senate races are polled more than others. Same with the House.

Races will fewer polls have larger uncertainty. It's not rocket science. But pros can get a decent idea just from the makeup of the district even without polling. Obviously the candidate strength is tougher to measure without the polling, though.
463   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 31, 6:45pm  

Generic Polling is meaningless, it doesn't matter if more Libbies in Brooklyn or Downtown LA come out, 30% higher. They still are all voting in the same heavily, permablue district.

And I don't see any +17D. It's 7.5D, and much of that is your urban, already Deep Blue, districts.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2018_generic_congressional_vote-6185.html
464   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 6:49pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Generic Polling is meaningless, it doesn't matter if more Libbies in Brooklyn or Downtown LA come out, 30% higher. They still are all voting in the same heavily, permablue district.

And I don't see any +17D. It's 7.5D, and much of that is your urban, already Deep Blue, districts.


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/413681-dems-lead-gop-by-17-points-on-generic-ballot

The generic ballot is probably the most important poll there is. It affects every race across the country. Obviously some more than others, but it's not a local effect.
465   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 31, 7:02pm  

HappyGilmore says
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/413681-dems-lead-gop-by-17-points-on-generic-ballot


Real Clear's average of polls has it at 7.5D. Using the Trump Filter, since working class HS Grads are less able sit at desks or work in home offices taking a half hour phone survey, but are too busy welding and roofing, and the Trump Shame Effect, I'd say it's +2.5D. Across the whole country.

I expect the Dems to flip a few seats. But more Amanda Marcottes coming out in an already Deep Dark Blue Brooklyn District, doesn't mean you'll see the same effect or to the same extent in PA-17.

I'm watching Florida closely and it seems there is no enthusiasm gap between R's and D's right now. It's a state that logs which registered Voters mailed or voted early, not their vote choices, and we know that R's are performing at par, which is ahead in mail-ins, and very slightly behind in early voting, with a ~60k+ advantage.
466   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 7:13pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Real Clear's average of polls has it at 7.5D.


Yep, but the +17 is very recent.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Using the Trump Filter, since working class HS Grads are less able sit at desks or work in home offices taking a half hour phone survey, but are too busy welding and roofing, and the Trump Shame Effect, I'd say it's +2.5D. Across the whole countr


lol @ the Trump filter. It's no use going over the facts of polling again. Trump supporters can and do believe whatever they want regardless of what the data says.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
I expect the Dems to flip a few seats. But more Amanda Marcottes coming out in an already Deep Dark Blue Brooklyn District, doesn't mean you'll see the same effect or to the same extent in PA-17.


We shall see.
468   CBOEtrader   2018 Oct 31, 7:26pm  

HappyGilmore says
It's funny how the Trump supporters believe Nate when he talks about the Senate,


Lol, this is as stupid as a statement gets. NS's comments are irrelevant, they have no sway in either direction (or they shouldnt).
469   CBOEtrader   2018 Oct 31, 7:31pm  

HappyGilmore says
The generic ballot is probably the most important poll there is. It affects every race across the country. Obviously some more than others, but it's not a local effect.


Polls, in general, are best at showing change rather than absolute levels of support.

This is far more relevant when the models change, like they did w Trump. The rules are all different. It would be difficult to impossible to set up anyaccurate poll in this environment. Add in the fact that these polls are basically just propaganda to show how unpopular wrong thinkers are, and these polls are total garbage.
470   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 7:32pm  

CBOEtrader says

Lol, this is as stupid as a statement gets. NS's comments are irrelevant, they have no sway in either direction (or they shouldnt).


Perhaps the problem is a lack of understanding of the meaning. I made no reference to his "sway". Only the hypocrisy of the Trump supporters.

But far more stupid is the post above CBOEs. How many times will fake craiglist posting be believed?

I wish I had Trump's email list--there cannot be a better list of people to send email scams to....
471   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 7:33pm  

CBOEtrader says

Polls, in general, are best at showing change rather than absolute levels of support.


Nope--that's not really true.


CBOEtrader says
This is far more relevant when the models change, like they did w Trump. The rules are all different. It would be difficult to impossible to set up anyaccurate poll in this environment. Add in the fact that these polls are basically just propaganda to show how unpopular wrong thinkers are, and these polls are total garbage.


Models didn't change. Late deciders broke for Trump. It was well within normal polling error.
472   CBOEtrader   2018 Oct 31, 7:36pm  

HappyGilmore says
It was well within normal polling error.


Right...
473   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 7:37pm  

CBOEtrader says
Right...


Will you admit you're wrong when I prove it to you?
474   CBOEtrader   2018 Oct 31, 7:38pm  

HappyGilmore says
Perhaps the problem is a lack of understanding of the meaning.


No you are missing my boorish critique. You suggest it is hypocrisy to agree w nate on some predictions and not agree on others. This is as illogical as an observation gets.
475   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 31, 7:40pm  

HappyGilmore says
lol @ the Trump filter. It's no use going over the facts of polling again. Trump supporters can and do believe whatever they want regardless of what the data says.


Wait, is Hillary President?

It was mathematically impossible for her to lose --- until she did.
476   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 7:41pm  

CBOEtrader says
No you are missing boorish critique. You suggest it is hypocrisy to agree w nate on some predictions and not agree on others. This is as illogical as an observation gets.


It is hypocrisy. Nate isn't offering his opinion, he has created a model to analyze many factors (including polling) to offer predictions in the form of probabilities.

Someone who touts the model when it says what they want it to say but then calls the model nonsense when it says the opposite of what they want is absolutely hypocrisy.
478   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 31, 7:44pm  

HappyGilmore says
The generic ballot is probably the most important poll there is. It affects every race across the country. Obviously some more than others, but it's not a local effect.


No it does not. Whether it's D+20 or R+20, New York's 16th and California's 34th is gonna go Deep Blue and Texas's 11th and Georgia's 9th is gonna be Deep Red.

If there's 20% more turnout in those districts, suddenly, nothing changes.
480   CBOEtrader   2018 Oct 31, 7:46pm  

HappyGilmore says
Someone who touts the model when it says what they want it to say but then calls the model nonsense when it says the opposite of what they want is absolutely hypocrisy.


THE MODEL will have different inputs in different situations. Each variable will require some level of human judgement.

Like I said, NS is irrelevant more so than just being wrong.
481   HappyGilmore   2018 Oct 31, 7:51pm  

CBOEtrader says
Like I said, NS is irrelevant more so than just being wrong.


lol--538 is the gold standard of political analysis.

There really isn't anything else close.
482   CBOEtrader   2018 Oct 31, 7:53pm  

HappyGilmore says
lol--538 is the gold standard of political analysis.


Lol, only to people who want to believe in biased fantasies.

538 is a joke to people who think critically.
483   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 31, 8:19pm  

Anybody remember Handel is Georgia's 6th? And all the money and time Hollywood, the Media, and Big Tech was dumped into it?

"Neck and Neck" pollsters crowed. Some gave had Handel down by 10pts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/20/new-forecast-only-a-55-chance-that-jon-ossoff-wins-georgias-house-special-election/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3c73d2103783

Hell some said Ossoff wasn't even going to have to go to runoff elections, getting more than 50% in the first round.

Handel won by 3.5 pts.
484   HeadSet   2018 Oct 31, 8:22pm  

CBOEtrader says

Like I said, NS is irrelevant more so than just being wrong.

That is true if you think the purpose of NS is to make accurate predictions. If accuracy was the real goal, NS would not be taken seriously at all.

NS purpose is to give info that certain people want to hear, specifically fund raisers. Much easier to raise campaign funds for a likely winner than to raise campaign funds for a likely loser. Also, easier to get donations in general for the likely winner since many donors want to be investing in the winning side. Tell them what they want to hear all along, then claim the "probability" and "margin of error" excuses when outright wrong.
485   MrMagic   2018 Oct 31, 8:39pm  

HappyGilmore says
lol--538 is the gold standard of political analysis.

There really isn't anything else close.








and for the WIN, Nate's Electoral College prediction:



and what the Official Electoral College Results were:



Hey, Tatty/JoeyJoey/Happy/, any question?
486   MrMagic   2018 Oct 31, 8:54pm  

HappyGilmore says
lol--538 is the gold standard of political analysis.

There really isn't anything else close.


Why You Should Never, Ever Listen To Nate Silver.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/12/why-you-should-never-ever-listen-to-nate-silver

A whole list of WRONG predictions and statements by Nate at that link, way to many to copy and paste. Hey Tatty/Joey/Happy.... enjoy!!

How I Acted Like A Pundit And Screwed Up On Donald Trump
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-i-acted-like-a-pundit-and-screwed-up-on-donald-trump/

Nate Silver's Very Very Wrong Predictions About Donald Trump Are Terrifying
https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/nate-silvers-very-very-wrong-predictions-about-donald-t-1788583912

The terrifying uncertainty at the heart of FiveThirtyEight’s election forecasts
The myth of the election prediction wizard is no more.
https://www.vox.com/2018/10/24/18009356/fivethirtyeight-nate-silver-election-2018-forecast-analysis

Nate Silver Blew It Bigly on the Election – Can His Brand Recover?
“Nate was arrogant. His numbers were all over the place. The title of ‘guru’ is now gone,”
https://www.thewrap.com/nate-silver-blew-it-bigly-on-the-election-can-his-brand-recover/
487   Goran_K   2018 Oct 31, 8:54pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Anybody remember Handel is Georgia's 6th? And all the money and time Hollywood, the Media, and Big Tech was dumped into it?

"Neck and Neck" pollsters crowed. Some gave had Handel down by 10pts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/20/new-forecast-only-a-55-chance-that-jon-ossoff-wins-georgias-house-special-election/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3c73d2103783

Hell some said Ossoff wasn't even going to have to go to runoff elections, getting more than 50% in the first round.

Handel won by 3.5 pts.


I remember.

I remember certain posters in this thread talking lots of shit about how Ossof was going to win big.

Maybe they will eat their crow but I doubt it.
488   Shaman   2018 Oct 31, 8:56pm  

CBOEtrader says
Add in the fact that these polls are basically just propaganda to show how unpopular wrong thinkers are, and these polls are total garbage.


As politically motivated as I am, I have no time for polls. They always take way too long to complete, and I’m suspicious of the way the questions are worded as well as what they’ll do with the information.

In this age of real consequences for stated political opinions, I think most people are far more comfortable expressing their will in the privacy of a voting booth.
489   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 31, 11:31pm  

Goran_K says
I remember certain posters in this thread talking lots of shit about how Ossof was going to win big.


And when he lost, crowing about how the Democrats upped their vote total ---- in an open seat, with tons of positive media coverage of Ossof, and the most spent on any Congressional Race in US History.
490   HappyGilmore   2018 Nov 1, 4:58pm  

personal
491   HappyGilmore   2018 Nov 1, 4:59pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
And when he lost, crowing about how the Democrats upped their vote total ---- in an open seat, with tons of positive media coverage of Ossof, and the most spent on any Congressional Race in US History.


lol--it's a Republican +12 district!

Does more money change the demographics of the district?
492   Goran_K   2018 Nov 1, 5:01pm  

Hey Happy, be a little less "happy" about dishing out personal insults or I'm going to be happy to nuke your posts.

Thanks!

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