patrick.net

Something I think we all should ponder is that Liberal does not equal: Democrat/Left/Progressive. The terms of description are not as tied together as we would like to think. No different for Conservative does not equal: Republican/Right/Static.....

ForcedTQ says

Something I think we all should ponder is that Liberal does not equal: Democrat/Left/Progressive. The terms of description are not as tied together as we would like to think. No different for Conservative does not equal: Republican/Right/Static.....

Conservative means nothing, afaik.

Liberal is the word we need to defend in that liberal values are individual rights. Liberal values are anti-collectivism by definition.

Therefore both the white supremecists (all 25 of them) and the millions of leftists who believe in intersectional oppression are anti-liberal in exactly the same identity politics type way.

As Jordan Peterson points out, it's more difficult for the leftists to see they have crossed into tyrannical ideology. ^^ This is why you are seeing Marcus and others defend the fascist left. They've been told the other side is evil so many times they think violence is justified. Unfortunately this is always how every worst episode in human history begins

marcus says

Yes. Yes I do.

You, and you alone can identify someone's private motivation when they cant identify it themselves?

Thats some omniscient shit. (One theory.)

-OR-

You are full of shit. (Reality.)

ForcedTQ says

Something I think we all should ponder is that Liberal does not equal: Democrat/Left/Progressive. The terms of description are not as tied together as we would like to think. No different for Conservative does not equal: Republican/Right/Static.....

Yeah that has been pointed out many times here. I keep repeating that the original liberal bourgeoisie was totally anti-left and is line with today's Libertarians and moderate Conservatives. Unfortunately we are stuck with inadequate labels but most leftists call themselves Liberal which they aren't.

Aphroman says

Who are the Democrats targeting as wrong thinkers?

Anyone who disagrees with them.

Look at the recent example w the proud boys in LA, or the massive twitter/FB/youtube censorship, or any number of the dozens of attacks on trump supporters.

marcus says

CBOE will say, "Give me an example." We've been watching a constant shit show 24/7 and he says give me an example.

So you have an example?

CBOEtrader says

As Jordan Peterson points out, it's more difficult for the leftists to see they have crossed into tyrannical ideology. ^^ This is why you are seeing Marcus and others defend the fascist left. They've been told the other side is evil so many times they think violence is justified. Unfortunately this is always how every worst episode in human history begins

And everytime, those pushing censorship and violence say "But you don't understand, this is really a high level threat dangerous to our Country." Every time.

FPBT says

April 2018
San Francisco, CA
A police officer was

Is that one of those silly email forwards or FB forwards that gullible people send each other? It reminds me of a guy who used to get those and use PatNet as his fact checkers, called everybody mutts, he was a big fan of Von Mises. It reminds me also of a thread about Muslim 'persecution' accusations that turned out to be complete hoaxes, I think 2scoops posted a whole bunch including the notorious NYC subway incident:

"Muslim college student made up Trump supporter subway attack story to avoid punishment for missing curfew"

Anyway, your copied and pasted SF accusation leaped out at me. You can't honestly consider SF 'right wing,' so that headline alone should have told you something was wrong. SFPD has gone out of its way to recruit Muslims, including the guy in your story. If you had bothered to check the facts, you would have found that he was fired by SFPD, and had previously been fired by OPD: "OPD would not disclose why but a source with knowledge of the dismissal says the officer was kicked out for quote "untruthfulness" in class assignments... [In addition,] Napa Police were so concerned after interviewing him, they issued the bulletin about their encounter to Bay Area law enforcement agencies." All of that was before SFPD hired him, which goes to show how desperate SFPD is to "diversify" including hiring Muslims.

I'm not going to bother wading through the whole pile of anonymous accusations that you copied and pasted as if true. Do your own fact checking instead of wasting others' time.

Farzad attempts to stab Republican Candidate Rudy Peters at Castro Valley Festival with a switchblade knife.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Castro-Valley-festival-stab-attempted-rudy-peters-13221444.php

Death Threats,Rape Threats force Conservative into hiding after Anti-Abortion Piece

https://pjmedia.com/trending/threats-of-rape-and-strangling-force-d-c-mcallister-into-hiding-after-anti-abortion-tweet/

jazz_music says

curious2 says

Is that one of those silly email forwards or FB forwards that gullible people send each other?

Is that one of those silly subject changes because you got nothing again?

I had already replied to FPBT's comment, and created a thread about the disinformation site that he had relied upon.

Thank you.

All political violence comes from the left these day.

All of it.

Patrick says

marcus says

CBOE will say, "Give me an example." We've been watching a constant shit show 24/7 and he says give me an example.

So you have an example?

Nope. Still nope.

Patrick says

All political violence comes from the left these day.

Yeah, there was that guy that shoved someone at a protest. And lets not forget the glass of water someone through at a Fox news Trump supporter. (don't worry about whether it might have been staged for $one million in free PR).

CBOEtrader says

So you have an example?

Nope. Still nope.

You have to tell me what hour of what day.

marcus says

You have to tell me what hour of what day

This is what’s known as a cop out.
When you’re losing the argument so badly....

marcus says

Patrick says

All political violence comes from the left these day.

Yeah, there was that guy that shoved someone at a protest. And lets not forget the glass of water someone through at a Fox news Trump supporter. (don't worry about whether it might have been staged for $one million in free PR).

Amazing how actual oppression is irrelevant, but the racism of performance gaps OMG!!!!

marcus says

You have to tell me what hour of what day.

choose one and go with it. (you wont because you cant)

www.youtube.com/embed/TwfFytnMkSg

https://reason.com/volokh/2018/07/30/injured-trump-supporters-lawsuit-against

"Officers shepherded them into a violent crowd of protesters and actively prevented them from reaching safety. The Officers continued to implement this plan even while witnessing the violence firsthand, and even though they knew the mob had attacked Trump supporters"

Aphro's response: who cares.

Aphroman says

Meanwhile neo nazi right wingers are at political rallies running their cars into crowds of people, murdering people, a la ISIS

And Bernie Bros are gunning down Republican politicians at baseball games.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-congressional-baseball-shooting-20170621-story.html

Or gay extremists shooting up the Family Research Council.
https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/19/justice/dc-family-research-council-shooting/index.html

Black Lives extremist kills 5 Dallas cops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers

Aphroman justifies violence against Republicans. Sounds like left are very Nazi lately.

CBOEtrader says

https://reason.com/volokh/2018/07/30/injured-trump-supporters-lawsuit-against

"Officers shepherded them into a violent crowd of protesters and actively prevented them from reaching safety. The Officers continued to implement this plan even while witnessing the violence firsthand, and even though they knew the mob had attacked Trump supporters"

Aphro's response: who cares.

CBOEtrader says

choose one and go with it. (you wont because you cant)

Trump dishonesty is extremely well documented. THere are days in the recent past with more than 30 factually incorrect statements in a day.

This is a fact.

But like Trump, you evidently don't believe there are verifiable truths or facts in this world.

In my book, any respectable conservative or libertarian would fully acknowledge Trumps dishonesty. To deny it is being every bit as mendacious as he is.

marcus says

THere are days in the recent past with more than 30 factually incorrect statements in a day.

OK. Choose one of those 30.

Wapo's list is up to 5000 now. You've said it's all fiction and that none of those are real lies.

So we're kind of done with this.

History will show one of two to be FACT. Either:

A) All the reality based people are right, and Trump really does live in his own special fact free reality

or

B) Basically all the media is in some kind of giant conspiracy along with basically all honest and intelligent people, to claim that Trump lies constantly.

Look how brazen the fake news media is getting. Isn't it amazing ?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/13/politics/donald-trump-truth-facts-lies/index.html

(note: humanity is so fucked, when you consider the degree to which people believe what they want to believe. Am I right ?)

If only there were such a thing as actual truth and real facts,...sigh.

marcus says

So we're kind of done with this.

You can't even name one lie you're willing to put out there?

Onvacation says

marcus says

So we're kind of done with this.

You can't even name one lie you're willing to put out there?

Nope. He wont do it. Literally refuses to spell out his own words and think for himself.

CBOEtrader says

and think for himself.

You mean defend himself against a hostile cultist audience.

Smart man who knows to be on the attack when arguing to win, the inherent advantage in it, and win is the game being played here.

since we got at least 2 different sets of facts, 2 different sets of realities, strident loyalty to tribe/cult, nobody's going to give any serious deliberation about anything typed by a non-fellow cult member.

@CBOEtrader I don't see you defending anything said here.

A lie isn’t just a false statement. It’s a false statement whose speaker knows it’s false. In these instances, the president — or his administration — have clear reason to know otherwise. Reporters are understandably cautious about using the word — some never do, because it requires speculating on what someone is thinking. The cases we call "lies" are ones where we think it's fair to make that call: Trump is saying something that contradicts clear and widely published information that we have reason to think he's seen. This list also includes bullshit: speech that is — in its academic definition — "unconnected to a concern with the truth."

There are an unprecedented amount of lies coming from Trump, so much so that several sources are listing his lies like greatest hits, the full list, categories, it's sad, Trump diminishes our nation and exposes the office of president itself to ridicule.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/maryanngeorgantopoulos/president-trump-lie-list

https://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien

http://trumpslieslist.com

https://www.politicususa.com/2016/03/31/ninety-one-percent-donald-trump-false.html

You got search engine, just stop ignoring the world about lyin' Donny. LOL

I don't mind because the stink of him will kill the GOP party and with that their agenda to keep money leaving our hands so they can get donor money.

Call It Crazy says

@CBOEtrader I don't see you defending anything said here.

What? If I were to make a claim like "Donald Trump is a liar" I would 100% back that up w facts and reasons.

The point is that @Marcus nor any other member of the forum has attempted to show why Trump is a huge liar.

Call It Crazy says

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/maryanngeorgantopoulos/president-trump-lie-list

Lol buzzfeeds audience must not read.

Does anyone want to choose a whopper and defend it as such?

Still no? That's what I thought. Sigh. I laughed when I read the buzzfeed list. No respectable person would defend this idiocy.

Call It Crazy says

There are an unprecedented amount of lies coming from Trump

Want to pick one?

OK I'll bite. How about this one:

"President Obama said we'd need a magic wand to get to 4% GDP"

Utter and complete lie.

https://twitter.com/funder/status/1039337849546571776

I would not say that Trump lies are "unprecedented" - the definition of any politician lying is that his lips are moving. Trump is not an exception by any means, if we remember Hillary under sniper fire, "I did not have sex with that womyn" etc.

Politician-speak, in fact, has become so coded that it’s essentially another language — what you might call the language of uncommunication. Hutton has examples coming out of his ears. ‘I can’t promise that’ means ‘There is no way in hell that I’m ever going to do that’. This is the right thing to do’ means ‘This is the thing we’re going to do’. ‘We need a grown-up debate’ means ‘I will only engage with people who agree with me’.

I particularly liked Hutton’s suggestions for the ‘rebranding’ of certain historical events. The Crusades become ‘Breaking Down Barriers Between Faith Groups’.
Henry VIII’s marital strategy was ‘Sustaining Families Through Wider Engagement’. And ‘Creating Critical Mass to Drive Demand for Safe Technology’? That’s Chernobyl.

dr6B says

I would not say that Trump lies are "unprecedented" - the definition of any politician lying is that his lips are moving. Trump is not an exception by any means, if we remember Hillary under sniper fire, "I did not have sex with that womyn" etc.

I haven't seen anything trump has said to be as blatant or disgusting of a lie as HRC's sniper fire comment. What iyo is Trumps most important lie?

I have seen him be factually inaccurate in irrelevant ways like "Chicago had highest murder rate in 25 years" when in fact it had the highest murder rate increase. This mistake deserves to be pointed out, but it isnt "we landed under sniper fire".

Someone, anyone, show us why Trump is a huge liar. I dont think the evidence is there.

CBOEtrader says

Someone, anyone, show us why Trump is a huge liar.

Definitely not huge liar, but I'd say similar in magnitude of lies to many other politicians. The twatter link in my previous post is about Trump helping in 9/11, which I somehow find hard to believe.

Herdingcats says

I'll ask again

I'll change the topic again. Sigh.

Is this your way of admitting Trump is not some huge, dangerous liar?

I guess you can argue that somehow having a compulsive liar as President is sometimes entertaining, and also that it's great for creating distractions whenever he feels he needs one.

Con artistry skills can be effective. But is this the image of America we want to promote to the world. And is it what or who we want our children to think we are ?

Compared to Obummer and IHLarry Trump is a compulsive truth teller.