patrick.net

marcus says

'm not sure which is worse ?

A celebrity saying the sitting President can suck on his machine gun ? (same celebrity is hosted at the White house by Trump)

Or getting spit on for wearing a slogan that is associated by many with racism and hate.

I guess it's a matter of perspective ? There is no objective truth there ?

There is an absolute objective truth. Physical assaults are violence. Words are not.

You are welcome.

marcus says

when they seek to destroy the meek, and the disenfranchised, and the marginalized"

There is always a rarionalization for violence. The more righteous the rationalization, the more easily the violence flows.

ALWAYS BE SUSPECT OF THOSE WHO RATIONALIZE VIOLENCE!!

CBOEtrader says

marcus says

How often have you denounced his lying

As I've asked you 20 times, post a specific quote and we can talk about it. Ask yourself why you wont.

His response:



A normal person would think, with all these accusations, that there would be plenty of examples to discuss. But the Leftys are great at Hyperbole, weak on facts and proof.

Aphroman says

People wear those stupid hats all the time, to advertise how easily manipulated they are,

Aphroman says

People are afraid to wear a MAGA hat lol wtf.

www.youtube.com/embed/jyHB0COkw3s

Alucardjones says

black church was torched in Massachusetts.

"Michael Jacques, 27, was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Michael A. Ponsor to 166 months in prison, to be followed by four years of supervised release. Jacques was also ordered to pay nearly $1.6 million in restitution, including $123,570 to the Macedonia Church of God in Christ.

On April 14, 2011, following a jury trial, Jacques was found guilty of conspiracy against civil rights, damage or destruction of religious property, and use of fire to commit a felony. Jacques’s co-conspirators, Benjamin Haskell and Thomas Gleason, pleaded guilty to the civil rights charges in June 2010. On Nov. 1, 2010 Haskell was sentenced to nine years in prison. Gleason is scheduled to be sentenced on Jan. 18, 2012.

According to evidence presented at Jacques’s trial, in the early morning hours of Nov. 5, 2008, within hours of President Barack Obama being elected, Jacques and his co-conspirators burned down the Macedonia Church of God in Christ’s newly constructed building where religious services were to be held for its predominantly African-American congregation."

There are many other examples, including homicides. Most violent hate crimes tend to be perpetrated by racist and/or anti-gay assailants. These are no longer usually endorsed by the "right," although we do see calls to obscure the data by no longer tracking such crimes or responding to them as a specific category.

A century ago, or even 50 years ago, hate crimes including homicides (e.g. lynching) in the southeastern USA committed by the "right" were often enabled or at least tolerated by local police and mayors, who may themselves have been members of the KKK. That has changed. Since 2015, in California, local police and mayors in San Jose and Berkeley have tolerated violence by AntiFa against Trump supporters. In 2015-17, arsons of black churches tended to be perpetrated by parishioners or ministers wanting the insurance money.

Berkeley arrests individuals from protest march.

This looks like somebody I knew from the JHS Motley Crue Fan Club circa 1988. Except his name was Sean and he was a dude.




Ericka looks cuddly.


More at:
https://twitter.com/berkeleypolice

What happened to my post describing my experience -did someone mark it personal?

I don't see it in the Mod Queue.

still no anti trumpers willing to step up and discuss their criticisms of trump.

Sad.

lostand confused says

What happened to my post describing my experience -did someone mark it personal?

It's the Russians hacking into Patnet.

CBOEtrader says

"Our hate is justified because the other side was hateful first." -said every tyrant and tyrannical movement ever.

Not true.

Example: Perhaps if there had been more hate for the type of hate that Hitler represented, then he couldn't have gained power.

There are examples of leaders with hateful rhetoric, that actually used hate to gain power. Trump is the strongest example of this in the U.S. in my lifetime.

YOu can deny your own susceptibility to the hate thats constantly propagated on right wing media. You can say "what hate ? I have no idea what you're talking about" until the cows come home. You can talk about all the fake news and bad coverage TRump gets instead of seeing that it's his negative behavior and the type of person he is that gets him the negative coverage.

CBOEtrader says

Physical assaults are violence. Words are not

EVen if the physical violence is shoving at a protest, and the words are from leaders or celebrities, going out to millions and inciting unhinged people to commit murder ?

marcus says

Perhaps if there had been more hate for the type of hate that Hitler represented

You mean socialist? I agree. But unfortunately collectivism always attracts the losers and never-beens of society and that's how guys like Hitler and Stalin rise to power, selling fear mongering to those losers. Same with the Democrat party.

Aphroman says

Have you ever heard of the Republican party?

Yes, but I don't see the parallels like I see with the Democrat party vs Collectivist governments.

Let's see shall we?

Democrat / Socialist / Communist / Nazi
-------------------------------------------
- Supports Gun Control
- Supports state ownership of key services and industries (health care, education, etc)
- Supports wealth redistribution
- Strong identity politics platform
- Has engaged in large national scale oppression that robbed millions of freedom

I could go on and on.

marcus says

There are examples of leaders with hateful rhetoric, that actually used hate to gain power. Trump is the strongest example of this in the U.S. in my lifetime.

Trump consistently argues for everyone to gather under the Banner of America.

Whereas the Democratic Party and their Media Allies hire open racists, people who cavort with known racists and refuse or only grudgingly/partially distance themselves from them under immense pressure, gloat about the end of the majority then deny doing so, etc.

We have examples on this thread and others of a privileged Asian Gal issuing tweet after tweet that can only be described as racist. What's funny, is that her supports don't deny they're racist, but that we have no right to complain because "Real racism" needs "Power+Privilege", even though Jeong has both given her background & role in society. Far more of it than 98% of White Males.

Marcus, can we repeal the 1960s Immigration Bill? Ted Kennedy promised when he was pushing for it that it would not fundamentally change the demographics of the country. Well, since that happened, then we should repeal it, yes?

Goran_K says

Hitler and Stalin rise to power, selling fear mongering to those losers

LYing and selling hate and fear was all I could see from Trump in his campaign. Combined with a business career and history as a person that made his campaign rhetoric pale in comparison.

THose who like Trump, for some reason do not see the things that scream out as to the kind of person he is. Nor do they acknowledge the hate and fear he was selling and that the right weing has been selling for decades.

CBOE will say, "Give me an example." We've been watching a constant shit show 24/7 and he says give me an example. You guys are so far beyond deluded.

I can agree about identity politics and excesses that sometimes go as far as to be anti-white racism on the far left, and coming from SOME minority individuals. But if you can't acknowledge what I see in TRump, then maybe we are at the point of a civil war and race wars. But if it comes to that, I will always blame TRump and you asshole Brietbrt, Fox News, talk radio followers for being so dishonest with yourselves.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

Berkeley arrests individuals from protest march.

I see a theme emerging. Ugly as fuck people are angry, probably because they're UAF.

marcus says

But if it comes to that, I will always blame TRump and you asshole Brietbrt, Fox News, talk radio followers for being so dishonest with yourselves.

I didn't vote for Trump and agree with alot of Liberals who complain about Trump's personal life and his rhetoric.

All the Liberals had to do win me over and not vote for a Republican is not be crazy. But Left has gone so far extreme it is seriously debating Socialism and total open borders when they can find some time between debating the total number of genders we are forced to recognize.

Democrat politicians and their water carriers: MSNBC, CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Vice News, Vox, Bill Maher, The View, Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, John Oliver, Comedy Central.........have gone bat-shit insane and spent the last 1.5 years dividing our country over alot of fake shit - giving the Russians more than they could have ever hoped for.

So now I find myself WANTING to defend Trump against these Liberal retards and am more motivated than ever to vote in the midterms and Trump in 2020.

marcus says

Example: Perhaps if there had been more hate for the type of hate that Hitler represented

WRONG! Hitler used the exact same fear of deplorable wrongthing logic to oppress and eventually kill the Jews. Hitler's logic is identical to today's left.

What we need to do as a society is 1st) express moral humility rather than moral righteousness. We need to realize that the angry mob is always wrong. Therefore we should never form into an angry mob. 2nd) NEVER justify oppression or violence against another individual who is not being violent towards others.

marcus says

CBOE will say, "Give me an example." We've been watching a constant shit show 24/7 and he says give me an example.

You still cant give a single example, AND that means those who require empirical evidence are in the wrong. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! This is nazi logic man, pure and simple. "OF course the Jews are evil and deserve to be taken away. Only a bad person questions the furors logic."

Please wake up before your side goes full nazi.

marcus says

Trump is the strongest example

Give me one example of Trump's hateful rhetoric. Lemme guess, you cant do that either.

Dude, please wake up. This is dreadfully closeminded behavior.

marcus says

But if it comes to that, I will always blame TRump and you asshole Brietbrt, Fox News, talk radio followers for being so dishonest with yourselves.

Yup, Hitler also blamed the Jews.

marcus says

I can agree about identity politics and excesses that sometimes go as far as to be anti-white racism on the far left, and coming from SOME minority individuals. But if you can't acknowledge what I see in TRump, then maybe we are at the point of a civil war and race wars. But if it comes to that, I will always blame TRump and you asshole Brietbrt, Fox News, talk radio followers for being so dishonest with yourselves.

The left can't win a civil war against the right. They would lose.

As for "Trump selling hate", no I don't buy it. You have to give me examples of Trump (not third parties, not isolated individuals who Trump doesn't even know personally) actually selling hate. If it's there, I'll admit it, but I have looked extremely hard (remember I did NOT vote for Trump), and besides him calling fat pigs like Rosie a few names, I don't see him selling hate like Democrats do 24/7.

Donald Trump (before he ran as a Republican) was more of a life style icon. Everyone wanted to be like Donald Trump, it was synonymous with being rich, brash, and proud of it, like Tony Stark but in real life.

All the "he's a racist" shit only came out in 2015 when he announced his run, which means it was probably made up bullshit.

marcus says

of leaders with hateful rhetoric, that actually used hate to gain power. Trump is the strongest example of this in the U.S. in my lifetime.

Can you give us an example of hateful rhetoric Trump used? Actual hateful words, not just unkind or insensitive words, not just coarse words of unvarnished truth, but actually hateful words and phrases intended to encourage people to hate groups of people? You know, something like Jeong of the NYT editorial board would say on her Twatter account.

I’ve been following him for two years now and I can’t give such an example.

I’m wondering what kind of fake news you’re watching that you feel (and I do mean feel) like Trump is just spreading hate.

marcus says

LYing and selling hate and fear was all I could see from Trump in his campaign.

I think I see the reason why.

CBOEtrader says

You still cant give a single example, AND that means those who require empirical evidence are in the wrong.

CBOEtrader says

Give me one example of Trump's hateful rhetoric.

Quigley says

Can you give us an example of hateful rhetoric Trump used?

You guys are expecting something that will NEVER happen. Marcus is so involved with his TDS, he will NEVER give an example, because he can't.

All he has is partisan Hyperbole, parroted from CNN...

The guiding principle of Democrats/Socialist/Communism, "You work, I eat."

That's why they suck. Everything else is a distraction.

MrMagic says

All he has is partisan Hyperbole, parroted from CNN...

Trump supporters: All americans deserve the same rights. Lets MAGA for all Americans!

Marcus: Thats racist, ITS TIME FOR A RACE WAR.

Trump supporters: Chill Marcus. Tell us why you so upset.

Marcus: If you dont agree with the violent mob, you are the problem.

Sigh... This is your moderate left folks.

Goran_K says

You have to give me examples of Trump (not third parties, not isolated individuals who Trump doesn't even know personally) actually selling hate. If it's there, I'll admit it, but I have looked extremely hard (remember I did NOT vote for Trump)

I didnt vote for trump either.

The left going this insane, may have me voting for a major party 2020 potus candidate for first time in my life. Always vote against the nazis.

FYI: you can always tell who the nazis are by their righteous justification for mob violence. Nazis dont "dog whistle".

marcus says

But if you can't acknowledge what I see in TRump, then maybe we are at the point of a civil war and race wars.

In all seriousness, very few here suffer from your level of TDS, and I mean this in all honesty. It's really difficult for anyone to see the same thing, who doesn't suffer from extreme hate of Trump, like you do. I'm being 100% honest here Marcus, you're at the point of needing major intervention and help. It's been over 18 months, and it hasn't tapered off at all.

How are you going to survive the next 2-1/2 years without going into a total meltdown?

I think it will end up being a civil war in the country, there is certainly a large group that is so totally over the top, that a civil war might be the only way to knock some sense into them.

It won't be pretty.

Progressives: trump supporters can't understand why we hate trump.

Also progressives: we refuse to point out examples why we hate Trump.

There has never been a mass brainwashing like what we see today. Frankly, its terrifying to watch millions of Americans behave like Nazis, righteously calling for violence against "dog whistle" wrongthink.

This has never in history ended well. Ever.

CBOEtrader says

You still cant give a single example

I could spend the rest of my life writing a book and I would anly be scratching the surface. I don't have time for your pleas of ignorance, as if that's an argument.

Are you going to deny that Steve Bannon and Briatbart reperent a wave of white nationionalism ?

Here, you can read someone elses efforts at putting together a halfway comprehensive list of race related examples. YOur response will likely be:

1) IT's from the NYT op ed piece, proving none of it can be factual, even if I read it and know all the facts cited to be factual.

or

2) "So ? What's wrong with that ? I agree with Trump with everything he says. It's the biggest reason I voted for him. But it's those minority folks that are the racists. Not those that agree with all these things he says. You want to claim that somehow Trump is the race baiter ? You want to claim that somehow inflaming race issues has something to do with why Trump won ?"

Yes. Yes I do.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html

Sorry that was the wrong link. I fixed it.

marcus says

Yes. Yes I do.

You are literally talking to yourself now.

Pick an example out of your articles to discuss. I dont think you can. You literally are incapable of defending these criticisms of trump. Prove me wrong.

The forum is asking you to represent your perspective logically. Why are you refusing to try?

marcus says

Sorry that was the wrong link. I fixed it.

"Trump treated black employees at his casinos differently from whites, according to multiple sources."

Who are these sources? Why are they never identified? This makes the entire piece seem fake and gay.

Goran_K says

Who

Goran_K says

Why

He wont answer. He will do some handwaiving judgmental accusation of Breitbart influence, etc... this game only works when you cant discuss details, which he wont.

Sigh.

As disappointing as this is, @Marcus is still the most reasonable moderate leftist on this site. I am starting to agree there is no such thing as a rational leftist. Prove me wrong Marcus, please.

Anytime a news source says "according to sources", but never identifies the sources, it has nearly no value as a factual piece of news meant to be discussed.

Now if the article was meant as a "hit piece", then it makes sense to have some anonymous non-specific source.

Something I think we all should ponder is that Liberal does not equal: Democrat/Left/Progressive. The terms of description are not as tied together as we would like to think. No different for Conservative does not equal: Republican/Right/Static.....

ForcedTQ says

Something I think we all should ponder is that Liberal does not equal: Democrat/Left/Progressive. The terms of description are not as tied together as we would like to think. No different for Conservative does not equal: Republican/Right/Static.....

Conservative means nothing, afaik.

Liberal is the word we need to defend in that liberal values are individual rights. Liberal values are anti-collectivism by definition.

Therefore both the white supremecists (all 25 of them) and the millions of leftists who believe in intersectional oppression are anti-liberal in exactly the same identity politics type way.

As Jordan Peterson points out, it's more difficult for the leftists to see they have crossed into tyrannical ideology. ^^ This is why you are seeing Marcus and others defend the fascist left. They've been told the other side is evil so many times they think violence is justified. Unfortunately this is always how every worst episode in human history begins

marcus says

Yes. Yes I do.

You, and you alone can identify someone's private motivation when they cant identify it themselves?

Thats some omniscient shit. (One theory.)

-OR-

You are full of shit. (Reality.)

ForcedTQ says

Something I think we all should ponder is that Liberal does not equal: Democrat/Left/Progressive. The terms of description are not as tied together as we would like to think. No different for Conservative does not equal: Republican/Right/Static.....

Yeah that has been pointed out many times here. I keep repeating that the original liberal bourgeoisie was totally anti-left and is line with today's Libertarians and moderate Conservatives. Unfortunately we are stuck with inadequate labels but most leftists call themselves Liberal which they aren't.